What about the Christian Palestinians? While a minority, it is not an insignificant number/BonfireNerd04 said:
I admit that I don't have a good answer to the issue of where the Gazans should go. It would be a lot easier if any of the world's 50 or so Muslim-majority countries made an offer to accept them.
God's word is clear on how Israel deal with the situation
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I agree completely and wasn't trying to suggest that the scattered tribes brought true worship to the foreign nations or anything. Only that a corrupted and dispersed Israeli people are still closer to God's truth than a nation of pagans.
I just wanted to point out the lack of genetic connection as I have seen misguided Messianic Jews advocating that God only cares about Abraham's bloodline when redeeming the nations.
I just wanted to point out the lack of genetic connection as I have seen misguided Messianic Jews advocating that God only cares about Abraham's bloodline when redeeming the nations.
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Screwing around with Israel is not a good idea ever. Hamas is an evil organization and is backed in ideology to eliminate all that do not agree with them rather than live in peace. Looks like they (HAMAS) now kill children with purpose and will capture and cage them. If this happening in the US, views would be much different. See "Buffalo 6"
They really are. Dispensationalists are some of the dumbest.craigernaught said:
So you're saying that the Christian position is that Jews should commit genocide and ethnic cleansing against Palestinians including Christian Palestinians, right?
Some of y'all are absolutely nuts. Out of your minds, completely nuts.
Nothing like a good over-generalization disparaging others to make one feel better about oneself.Klaus Schwab said:They really are. Dispensationalists are some of the dumbest.craigernaught said:
So you're saying that the Christian position is that Jews should commit genocide and ethnic cleansing against Palestinians including Christian Palestinians, right?
Some of y'all are absolutely nuts. Out of your minds, completely nuts.
jkag89 said:
I have no sympathy for Hamas and do not fault Israel with their response. I do have sympathy for the innocent whether they are Israeli or Palestinian.
Yeah, I didn't expect anyone to defend/have sympathy for Hamas. I specifically said the Palestinians. I remember in college I had a classmate in one class who was very pro Israel and very much in favor of killing all Palestinians. When I asked him about the 10+ percent of Palestinians that were Christian, he didn't even realize that was a thing. Just didn't compute.ramblin_ag02 said:
No one here has yet defended Hamas or anyone taking violent action against Israel. Hamas is terrible and only making a bad situation worse for everyone. We just don't appreciate people pulling Bible verses out of context in order to justify ethnic cleansing of millions of people, including about a million Christians
And I agree, I can't fault Israel for its heavy response. It is just very unfortunate that the Palestinian people will suffer because of Hamas. They've already had food, water, and electricity cut off.
Regardless, it's just refreshing to see most here not advocating for genocide.
This gentleman has a very interesting take on this situation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_Blond). If he's even close to being correct in his assessment, then the threat to Israel is truly existential. If it plays out that way, I don't think it's too crazy to imagine Israel letting Tehran know that they either call off the dogs or Tehran will be nuked. Then, we will see just how advanced the Iranian nuke program truly is ... Scary stuff. We should be praying that this all ends soon and before it gets way out of hand.
They deserve criticism for being that foolish.Jabin said:Nothing like a good over-generalization disparaging others to make one feel better about oneself.Klaus Schwab said:They really are. Dispensationalists are some of the dumbest.craigernaught said:
So you're saying that the Christian position is that Jews should commit genocide and ethnic cleansing against Palestinians including Christian Palestinians, right?
Some of y'all are absolutely nuts. Out of your minds, completely nuts.
Klaus Schwab said:They deserve criticism for being that foolish.Jabin said:Nothing like a good over-generalization disparaging others to make one feel better about oneself.Klaus Schwab said:They really are. Dispensationalists are some of the dumbest.craigernaught said:
So you're saying that the Christian position is that Jews should commit genocide and ethnic cleansing against Palestinians including Christian Palestinians, right?
Some of y'all are absolutely nuts. Out of your minds, completely nuts.
No...they really don't. Get off your high horse.
To move back to the main point. God is telling the Israelites to act as His judgement against the Canaanites. The Canaanites were the only group the Israelites were supposed to go to war against. And why is that? Because the Canaanites were wicked beyond even the cultural norms. They practiced first born child sacrifice, which God calls abhorrent. All children are gifts from God, they are not to be sacrificed- period.
Asherbenapal's destruction of the 10 northern tribes was judgement against Israel. The Babylonian exile was the judgement against the remaining southern kingdom. God specifically says A) The judgement was for their wickedness, worship of demons, waringness and abandoning God. and B) that the exile will last as long as the accumulated Sabbath and Jubilee years they didn't do.
On the other side of this judgement, God does not commit to rebuilding a nation again, but bringing forth the Messiah. (Even when second temple era jews thought this way and rebuild the temple and the wall).
The modern nation state of Israel is not a continued work of Israelites, nor are they any part of any fulfillment prophecy.
Both groups at war right now have blood on their hands, and are refusing Christ's call to make peace even against those that will certainly harm/kill you.
Asherbenapal's destruction of the 10 northern tribes was judgement against Israel. The Babylonian exile was the judgement against the remaining southern kingdom. God specifically says A) The judgement was for their wickedness, worship of demons, waringness and abandoning God. and B) that the exile will last as long as the accumulated Sabbath and Jubilee years they didn't do.
On the other side of this judgement, God does not commit to rebuilding a nation again, but bringing forth the Messiah. (Even when second temple era jews thought this way and rebuild the temple and the wall).
The modern nation state of Israel is not a continued work of Israelites, nor are they any part of any fulfillment prophecy.
Both groups at war right now have blood on their hands, and are refusing Christ's call to make peace even against those that will certainly harm/kill you.
The entire system is made up nonsense from a group of weirdos stemming from John Darby and Cyrus Scofield. All of the most cringe Left Behind books, movies, and even video games comes from the origins of the Plymouth Brethren. It's all easily refuted in numerous ways. The mid 1800s to early 1900s had many groups spouting out different end times beliefs. Evil people love it because they prey on the ignorant and get boomers to donate money to Israel. It's just a cash cow. Ole John Hagee is gearing up for war and the blood moons so don't forget to send him some cash lol.TTUArmy said:Klaus Schwab said:They deserve criticism for being that foolish.Jabin said:Nothing like a good over-generalization disparaging others to make one feel better about oneself.Klaus Schwab said:They really are. Dispensationalists are some of the dumbest.craigernaught said:
So you're saying that the Christian position is that Jews should commit genocide and ethnic cleansing against Palestinians including Christian Palestinians, right?
Some of y'all are absolutely nuts. Out of your minds, completely nuts.
No...they really don't. Get off your high horse.
There are weirdos in every group, yours included (in fact, have you looked closely at your mirror lately?).
They are nothing more than a doomsday cult. It's why they focus so much on the end times and their rapture theology. They want followers to find peace in being saved from tribulation, even though all of Christian history is filled with martyrs. Their dual covenant history is in direct opposition to the Bible. It's a perfect example of why you can't be divorced from the Church and expect to find truth. Due to your ignorance and pride you get figures like Hagee and Jews that mock you while you send them money. This video is exactly how the Jews over there think of you.
Rabbi Chaim Richman, former long time director of the Temple Institute in Jerusalem 🇮🇱 which explicitly works to rebuild the third temple at the site of the al-Aqsa mosque, thinks Christians are mistaken for “worshipping one jew” and should instead “worship all jews” as jews “die… pic.twitter.com/wqsv8oTPDr
— Conrad (WWIII⚡️Analyst) ☦️ (@GnomeRad) October 10, 2023
I've actually met Rabbi Richman. Nice guy, even if his efforts to rebuild the Temple are a bit...overly optimistic.
The post you shared is taking him out of context. Observant Jews worship no god but Y-H-W-H. And yeah, this means that Judaism considers worshipping a human being as God to be idolatry. That's the main reason Jews don't accept Christianity. Well, that and the fact that Christians have spend most of the last 2000 years persecuting and killing Jews; it's bad PR for Christianity.
Obvious, Christians don't like to hear this, but why not try *listening* to Jewish theological arguments instead of just assuming that Satan put a veil over Jews' eyes?
The post you shared is taking him out of context. Observant Jews worship no god but Y-H-W-H. And yeah, this means that Judaism considers worshipping a human being as God to be idolatry. That's the main reason Jews don't accept Christianity. Well, that and the fact that Christians have spend most of the last 2000 years persecuting and killing Jews; it's bad PR for Christianity.
Obvious, Christians don't like to hear this, but why not try *listening* to Jewish theological arguments instead of just assuming that Satan put a veil over Jews' eyes?
Since admin deleted my comments I'll just post John 8.
39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but [l]He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand [m]what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks [n]a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of [o]lies. 45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."
39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but [l]He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand [m]what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks [n]a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of [o]lies. 45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."
Eh, I don't know much about him. But it seems his credentials are mostly theology and philosophy. People tend to view things from the lens of their education. While nothing he said is technically false, he's painting a picture that some Christians have that we need to almost promote war there to bring about the end times.
☦️Thread:
— Pumpkin Prime, PhD ☦️ 🇺🇸 (@Kaleb_Atlanta) October 11, 2023
Modern Judaism has NOTHING to do with Temple Judaism and it bears no continuity with the faith practiced by the Prophets. The faith of the Prophets is Christianity. pic.twitter.com/T7Sy3SGVgs
Klaus Schwab said:☦️Thread:
— Pumpkin Prime, PhD ☦️ 🇺🇸 (@Kaleb_Atlanta) October 11, 2023
Modern Judaism has NOTHING to do with Temple Judaism and it bears no continuity with the faith practiced by the Prophets. The faith of the Prophets is Christianity. pic.twitter.com/T7Sy3SGVgs
Lots of demonic doctrine and Jew hatred here.
Oh? Did you call the Jews "Christ-killers" or something?Klaus Schwab said:
Since admin deleted my comments
If there's one person who truly understands Jewish history and theology, it's an Ortho-bro who makes blatantly antisemitic comments in his Twitter feed.
Win At Life said:Zobel said:
No one said anything about breaking a covenant.
Contradictions abound. Your Jesus abolish God's Sabbath, declared all foods clean, waived away the penalty for adultery and broke many first Covenant Laws, even while claiming He was a perfect Law keeper to be a perfect sinless sacrifice.
If true you can hardly blame him on that front given the circumstances with his corporeal parents' engagement and the HG.
It kind of has a Zeus feel to it. Why not go with a virgin who wasn't already engaged/betrothed to another?
SirDippinDots said:
Lots of demonic doctrine and Jew hatred here.
Criticism of Israel, or debate on the religion of modern Judaism, shouldn't automatically constitute being called "Jew hatred" or anti-semitism. That's intellectually lazy.
bigtruckguy3500 said:SirDippinDots said:
Lots of demonic doctrine and Jew hatred here.
Criticism of Israel, or debate on the religion of modern Judaism, shouldn't automatically constitute being called "Jew hatred" or anti-semitism. That's intellectually lazy.
I think the statement is in reference to the tweet claiming that Modern Judaism has nothing to do with Temple Judaism, which is astonishingly stupid.
It's absolutely true that even speaking of "Judaism" from the 1st or 2nd Temple period is anachronistic, given that there were several "Judaisms" rather than a single religion and a modern understanding of "religion" is quite different than the views of ancient people, but a claim that they have nothing to do with each other is aggressively dumb.
bigtruckguy3500 said:SirDippinDots said:
Lots of demonic doctrine and Jew hatred here.
Criticism of Israel, or debate on the religion of modern Judaism, shouldn't automatically constitute being called "Jew hatred" or anti-semitism. That's intellectually lazy.
Casting modern Judaism and Jewish theology through a Christian theological and eschatological lens is an old practice and pretty deeply antisemitic. A guy who thinks Jews worship / are the children of Satan is antisemitic.
craigernaught said:bigtruckguy3500 said:SirDippinDots said:
Lots of demonic doctrine and Jew hatred here.
Criticism of Israel, or debate on the religion of modern Judaism, shouldn't automatically constitute being called "Jew hatred" or anti-semitism. That's intellectually lazy.
I think the statement is in reference to the tweet claiming that Modern Judaism has nothing to do with Temple Judaism, which is astonishingly stupid.
It's absolutely true that even speaking of "Judaism" from the 1st or 2nd Temple period is anachronistic, given that there were several "Judaisms" rather than a single religion and a modern understanding of "religion" is quite different than the views of ancient people, but a claim that they have nothing to do with each other is aggressively dumb.
Exactly it makes me think there is some kind of nefarious motive for that.
It's definitely hyperbole, but other than accusations of antisemitism and ad homs I haven't seen much engagement with the actual claims. Which parts of what he said are antisemitic? Which are false?
Edit to add - I don't agree with everything he said, but the whole "anything I don't like is antisemitism" angle is just as aggressively stupid.
Edit to add - I don't agree with everything he said, but the whole "anything I don't like is antisemitism" angle is just as aggressively stupid.
You mean besides grossly flattening Jewish history, ignoring the existence of a diaspora for centuries before the destruction of the Temple, the importance of Babylon and Alexandria, the continuity in rabbinic / sage culture, the history and traditions behind the midrashim, the claim the Talmud is "drivel," and the weird claims that only Christianity accurately reflects Jewish religious culture?
Edit: also, the claims that Jews changed the Tanakh is certainly an interesting one. Given that we have Josephus noting the contested nature of the canon and seeming to support a number of books in line with the Masoretic tradition rather than including the Apocrypha.
Edit: also, the claims that Jews changed the Tanakh is certainly an interesting one. Given that we have Josephus noting the contested nature of the canon and seeming to support a number of books in line with the Masoretic tradition rather than including the Apocrypha.
That's what Hagee would imply. Through politics etc, it often sounded like they were trying to bring about God's plan on their timeline.bigtruckguy3500 said:
Eh, I don't know much about him. But it seems his credentials are mostly theology and philosophy. People tend to view things from the lens of their education. While nothing he said is technically false, he's painting a picture that some Christians have that we need to almost promote war there to bring about the end times.
We got 2000 years of heresies in one thread here. First page pretty quickly addressed that the modern nation of Israel is not Israel of the bible, and that both sides have and are continuing to commit atrocities against one another. To the surprise of some.
We've then transitioned into another valid critique that evangelical christians who confuse modern jews/israel with Israelites of the bible don't understand their own Christian theology and history. Also, their viewpoints can only really exist and find a foothold in an expression of christianity that is divorced from the historical church, and doesn't care for church father theology or an understanding of history. And also they are willingly bloodthirsty and prideful. The Day of the Lord (as Judgement Day) is not going to be a fun place. We all have our own sin to sort out, repent of, and ask God for mercy. Cheering from the a proverbial sideline, cheering on God's judgement, and beating chests against 'those evildoers over there' is ripe for reproach. Jews who try to stoke these fears privately view evangelicals as fools who they can separate them from their money.
And now we've come to the end of the line. We're all of these conversations head. We are encroaching back on old topics and old username battle lines. Where everything now is anti-semitism. A critique of Judaism that it rejected its own Messiah is anti-semitism. Bringing up that modern judiasm is a deeply warped fragment that has very little in common with the second temple judiasms of 2000 years ago - is anti-semitism. Bringing up that the modern expression of Judaism is literally the fork created by those who rejected Jesus is anti-semitism. That rejecting the modern rabbi's reinterpretation that there was no second power in heaven who appeared to Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Gideon and physically walked the earth - is antisemitism. That by the ancient jews own theology, denying the Messiah is a ploy of demons, thus they commune with demons, is anti-semitism.
We've then transitioned into another valid critique that evangelical christians who confuse modern jews/israel with Israelites of the bible don't understand their own Christian theology and history. Also, their viewpoints can only really exist and find a foothold in an expression of christianity that is divorced from the historical church, and doesn't care for church father theology or an understanding of history. And also they are willingly bloodthirsty and prideful. The Day of the Lord (as Judgement Day) is not going to be a fun place. We all have our own sin to sort out, repent of, and ask God for mercy. Cheering from the a proverbial sideline, cheering on God's judgement, and beating chests against 'those evildoers over there' is ripe for reproach. Jews who try to stoke these fears privately view evangelicals as fools who they can separate them from their money.
And now we've come to the end of the line. We're all of these conversations head. We are encroaching back on old topics and old username battle lines. Where everything now is anti-semitism. A critique of Judaism that it rejected its own Messiah is anti-semitism. Bringing up that modern judiasm is a deeply warped fragment that has very little in common with the second temple judiasms of 2000 years ago - is anti-semitism. Bringing up that the modern expression of Judaism is literally the fork created by those who rejected Jesus is anti-semitism. That rejecting the modern rabbi's reinterpretation that there was no second power in heaven who appeared to Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Gideon and physically walked the earth - is antisemitism. That by the ancient jews own theology, denying the Messiah is a ploy of demons, thus they commune with demons, is anti-semitism.
No but they did. I just posted what God specifically said about the Pharisees and the Jews that followed them. Censoring Christians is nothing new though.BonfireNerd04 said:Oh? Did you call the Jews "Christ-killers" or something?Klaus Schwab said:
Since admin deleted my comments
It's specifically from Christ lol.Sapper Redux said:bigtruckguy3500 said:SirDippinDots said:
Lots of demonic doctrine and Jew hatred here.
Criticism of Israel, or debate on the religion of modern Judaism, shouldn't automatically constitute being called "Jew hatred" or anti-semitism. That's intellectually lazy.
Casting modern Judaism and Jewish theology through a Christian theological and eschatological lens is an old practice and pretty deeply antisemitic. A guy who thinks Jews worship / are the children of Satan is antisemitic.
They don't and it's not dumb at all. It has everything to do with Rabbinic Judaism unless it's a reformed liberal synagogues or other Protestant like fractions which is even more nonsense. Nobody is arguing against the different sects of Judaism. That's common knowledge for Christians. Have you even read the NT haha?craigernaught said:bigtruckguy3500 said:SirDippinDots said:
Lots of demonic doctrine and Jew hatred here.
Criticism of Israel, or debate on the religion of modern Judaism, shouldn't automatically constitute being called "Jew hatred" or anti-semitism. That's intellectually lazy.
I think the statement is in reference to the tweet claiming that Modern Judaism has nothing to do with Temple Judaism, which is astonishingly stupid.
It's absolutely true that even speaking of "Judaism" from the 1st or 2nd Temple period is anachronistic, given that there were several "Judaisms" rather than a single religion and a modern understanding of "religion" is quite different than the views of ancient people, but a claim that they have nothing to do with each other is aggressively dumb.
So you haven't engaged with any of the concerns in the twitter thread but that's because you don't have an answer to the fact that no temple and no sacrifice means that a new religion was formed. All of this was prophesied in the OT anyways. Ignoring prophets and hyper focusing on texts lead to their destruction.
Oh my gosh, a Twitter thread that summarizes 2000 years of history flattened it out?
Josephus also said that every True Judaean knows the canon from birth and there is no dissension. Basically asserting that his sect (the Pharisees) had the only true canon and by implication saying other Judaisms of his day were not true Judaism at all. In other words, he's making the exact same claim as the Twitter thread that has you pearl clutching so hard, but because his sect is the closest thing in continuity to modern rabbinic Judaism you accept it because reasons.
Josephus also said that every True Judaean knows the canon from birth and there is no dissension. Basically asserting that his sect (the Pharisees) had the only true canon and by implication saying other Judaisms of his day were not true Judaism at all. In other words, he's making the exact same claim as the Twitter thread that has you pearl clutching so hard, but because his sect is the closest thing in continuity to modern rabbinic Judaism you accept it because reasons.
Quote:
Bringing up that modern judiasm is a deeply warped fragment that has very little in common with the second temple judiasms of 2000 years ago - is anti-semitism. Bringing up that the modern expression of Judaism is literally the fork created by those who rejected Jesus is anti-semitism. That rejecting the modern rabbi's reinterpretation that there was no second power in heaven who appeared to Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Gideon and physically walked the earth - is antisemitism. That by the ancient jews own theology, denying the Messiah is a ploy of demons, thus they commune with demons, is anti-semitism.
All of these are denuded of nuance or Jewish voices and Jewish philosophy and have been used and argued by Christians to deny the Judaism of Jews in order to supplant them and justify generations of horrible antisemitism that has led to the horrific deaths of millions over millennia. So yes, framing it in this way, and centering Christianity at the center of the Jewish belief system, is on par with the history of antisemitism.
Zobel said:
Oh my gosh, a Twitter thread that summarizes 2000 years of history flattened it out?
Josephus also said that every True Judaean knows the canon from birth and there is no dissension. Basically asserting that his sect (the Pharisees) had the only true canon and by implication saying other Judaisms of his day were not true Judaism at all. In other words, he's making the exact same claim as the Twitter thread that has you pearl clutching so hard, but because his sect is the closest thing in continuity to modern rabbinic Judaism you accept it because reasons.
The Twitter thread cited claimed that modern Judaism isn't real Judaism because, in part, they "changed" the Tanakh. I brought up Josephus because it demonstrates that a 24 book Tanakh goes back to the first century and likely earlier. The history of the Samaritans and Essenes also support the idea that the Jewish Bible was not changed to take out the Apocrypha, but that the status of those books was in flux from very early on.
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