Pope Francis expected to ask Bishop Strickland to retire

39,452 Views | 353 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by Ragnar Danneskjoldd
jrico2727
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AG
Your outrage would seem sincere if Rome were spending any effort to stop this very thing promoted by clerics in Germany. You pretend as if this won't be a major emphasis in the upcoming Synod. Are we to expect the same condemnation of sin when his holiness sees his buddy Jimmy Martin SJ next month?

You spend most of your time promoting that very sin and now you're reposting lip service by the Vatican. Their actions speak louder, as do yours. So Pablo who is really bearing false witness?
aggietony2010
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AG
Where is the falsehood in that statement?

There are, in fact, high-ranking prelates, including in the Vatican, who are either:

1. Allowing the blessing of same sex couples (Germany and Belgium).
2. Ignoring said blessings, and not correcting these out of line bishops with any sense of immediacy, scandalizing the faithful

Oh, and since that article was published, there has been a change of leadership at the DDF.
Dies Irae
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PabloSerna said:

jrico2727 said:

Bishop Schneider to Bishop Strickland: "Future Popes will thank you!"

However, dear Bishop Strickland, you have the happiness, that all the popes of the past, all the courageous confessor-bishops of the past, all the Catholic martyrs, who in the words of St. Theresa of Avila, were "resolved to undergo a thousand deaths for any one article of the creed" (The Life of Teresa of Jesus, 25:12), are supporting and encouraging you. Furthermore, the little ones in the Church pray for you and support you; they are an ever growing, yet small, army of lay faithful in the United States as well as all over the world who were put on the periphery by high ranking churchmen, even in the Vatican, whose main concerns seems to be pleasing the world and promoting their naturalistic agenda and the approval of the sin of homosexual activity under the guise of welcoming and inclusion.

Then explain this...

Published 12:22 PM CDT, March 15, 2021

ROME (AP) The Vatican declared Monday that the Catholic Church won't bless same-sex unions since God "cannot bless sin."

The Vatican's orthodoxy office, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a formal response to a question about whether Catholic clergy have the authority to bless gay unions. The answer, contained in a two-page explanation published in seven languages and approved by Pope Francis, was "negative."

The note distinguished between the church's welcoming and blessing of gay people, which it upheld, but not their unions. It argued that such unions are not part of God's plan and that any sacramental recognition of them could be confused with marriage.

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The sin of bearing false witness is a very real and grave matter. Even cross posting a lie such as what is written above, even by a Bishop, does not change the bottom line. Jrico... please help me understand why you continue to fan such a flame?






Dear Pablo,

Did you pay any attention to the last "German Synodal Way? Here is a quick snippet. They reference the very declaration you cited. Apparently it was more of a thought experiment than actual law of the land, in their eyes.





Can you let me know the penalties assessed to the 38 bishops in favor of this?
747Ag
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AG
aggietony2010 said:

Where is the falsehood in that statement?

There are, in fact, high-ranking prelates, including in the Vatican, who are either:

1. Allowing the blessing of same sex couples (Germany and Belgium).
2. Ignoring said blessings, and not correcting these out of line bishops with any sense of immediacy, scandalizing the faithful

Oh, and since that article was published, there has been a change of leadership at the DDF.
Regarding that change at the DDF...

https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/new-ddf-prefect-addresses-confusion

So far, so good...

Quote:

Fernndez replied: "Look, just as I am firmly against abortion (and I challenge you to find someone in Latin America who has written more articles than me against abortion), I also understand that 'marriage' in the strict sense is only one thing: that stable union of two beings as different as male and female are, who in that difference are capable of engendering new life."

"There is nothing that can be compared to that and to use that name to express something else is neither good nor correct. At the same time, I believe that we must avoid gestures or actions that could express something different. That is why I think that the greatest care must be taken to avoid rites or blessings that could feed this confusion."

And then we get back to the confusion...

Quote:

"Now, if a blessing is given in such a way that it does not cause that confusion, it will have to be analyzed and confirmed. As you will see, there is a point at which we leave a properly theological discussion and move on to a question that is rather prudential or disciplinary."

The (failed) attempts at destroying the Church or changing the Faith are not going to be overt, outright lies. It will be subtle and be full of confusion. See the fall of man in Genesis. I know not what +Fernandez intentions are here, but the second quote sows ambiguity and confusion regardless of intent. Our Lord is not the author of confusion (Let your yes be yes and your no be no), but rather it's of the evil one.

We are in the midst of a spiritual battle for souls... clarity over confusion & ambiguity... virtue over vice... truth over falsity... canon law concludes thusly: SALUS ANIMARUM SUPREMA LEX... The Salvation of Souls is the Supreme Law.
Dies Irae
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So much of this is purposeful confusion; of course the Catholic Church sees nothing wrong with blessing gay people; they're just people with a disordered attraction, some of the holiest people in the world are those that carry their cross and commit to a life without eros love, there is great grace and holiness found in those that "white knuckle" their way in faith conquering their temptations.

I see no way possible for a blessing of a union that is at its core; an inversion of marriage. A blessing typically signifies a request that God's will be done for whatever it is you're blessing. God's will cannot be done in an objectively sinful union. The only possible blessing for a gay couple I can fathom is one in where the clergy blesses them with the strength to love (agape) each other enough to stop living together in sin, and commit to celibate life while avoiding the near occasion of sin. The same could be said for a cohabiting straight couple; you could not bless such an arrangement, or a divorcee getting remarried.

I'm sure they'll backdoor this into some sort of "household roommate blessing" akin to when kids move into a dorm in college; and the Jesuits will spike the football and America magazine will run 8 consecutive articles about how Gay Marriage is now approved in the Catholic Church and no one will say anything.
The Banned
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Yep. Whoever coined the phrase "weaponized ambiguity" couldn't have been more accurate
747Ag
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AG
The Banned said:

Yep. Whoever coined the phrase "weaponized ambiguity" couldn't have been more accurate
I think it was Msgr. Pope.
747Ag
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AG
Latest pastoral letter from Bishop Strickland dropped yesterday or today...

https://www.dioceseoftyler.org/2023/09/19/summer-2023-pastoral-letters-from-bishop-strickland/
SoulSlaveAG2005
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AG
That's my bishop.
hockeyag
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AG
Nothing ambiguous in the pastoral letter. Lines are clearly drawn. Will the synod bow to the crowd or hold the faith firm?
RAB91
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A letter from today......

Quote:

I thought it would be good for you to hear directly from me, hopefully I can alleviate some concerns and clarify any confusion. As you probably know there was an Apostolic Visitation of the diocese conducted the week of June 19-24. Bishop Kicanas, retired from Tuscan, Arizona and Bishop Sullivan, from Camden, New Jersey spent the week interviewing various people about the condition of the diocese and concluded by interviewing me.

I have not heard from any Church official from Rome since the visitation concluded on June 24. I was not given a reason for the visitation, and I have not received any report since.
Last week an article was published on a website called, "The Pillar", and the article alleged that a meeting was held with Pope Francis where some of the members of the Congregation for Bishops recommended that I be encouraged to resign as Bishop of Tyler. Let me be clear that I have received no communication from Rome regarding this. At this point it is simply and article discussing supposed leaked information from the Vatican.

More at the link.... https://bishopstrickland.com/blog/post/a-brief-update-from-bishop-strickland
PabloSerna
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AG
In law, motu proprio (Latin for "on his own impulse") describes an official act taken without a formal request from another party. Some jurisdictions use the term "sua sponte" for the same concept.

In Catholic Law, it refers to a document issued by the pope on his own initiative and personally signed by him. Such a document may be addressed to the whole church, to part of it, or to some individuals. The first Catholic motu proprio was promulgated by Pope Innocent VIII in 1484. It continues to be a common form of papal rescript, especially when establishing institutions, making minor changes to law or procedure, and when granting favors to persons or institutions.

+++

One of the aims of Satan, I am sure, is to sow division. One of the ways to counter this is have a leader, in our case Pope Francis working together with the CDF (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) and issuing encyclicals, papal bulls, and motu proprio such as the one above regarding same sex couple blessings. No other voice, such as a Bishop, Cardinal, Deacon, Nun, Sister, or Lay Person(s) for that matter can speak for the Church in this official capacity.

As we have already discussed, a Pope can give an interview, speech, etc., expressing a view that would appear contrary to the current doctrine - but it is not law. He is not sitting in the chair of Peter and speaking (Ex Cathedra) or more commonly referred to as "infallible". I do challenge every Catholic on here to follow the teachings of our faith (CCC), myself included, but speak your mind. Just do so in a way that does not contradict what has been written and promulgated.

+++

Bishop Strickland has called out Pope Francis by name. Bishop Schneider was more tactful, but just as direct when he writes, "high ranking churchmen, even in the Vatican" promoting the approval of the sin of homosexual activity under the guise of welcoming and inclusion. I have no doubt that there are such persons who seek such approval. However, it is not coming from Pope Francis.

Jrico, you write that it will be a "major emphasis" - but from what I am reading and listening to (including Fr. Martin SJ) this won't be the case. Please put down your sword.

Aggietony2010, again - just noise. Follow the official teachings.

Dies Irae, there will likely be no penalties for free thinking, even against a moto proprio. It is the way the Church operates. They listen and act (or not) very, very slowly.

+++

The upcoming conclusion to the Synod 2021-2024 starts in October. A Synod is a gathering of the faithful in order to listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying to the Church and asking her to be and to do. Pope Francis has sought from the beginning of his pontificate to invigorate and reconfigure the Synod of Bishops so that it might become more of an exercise of listening and discernment. Ever since his election in 2013, he has been teaching the Church about synodality and encouraging us to become a more synodal Church at every level.

You cannot effectively listen if you start to shut people down.

+++

"You spend most of your time promoting that very sin"

I do not promote sin. I have written that it I believe it is a sin now because the current understanding is from a heterosexual lens. At all times, I was clear that it is my thinking alone and that I do not know what the answer is for two persons, of the same sex, who freely love each other and desire to commit to each other for life. I still do not know and I am hopeful that the more we talk/pray about this the more clear the answer will be.
RAB91
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PabloSerna said:


I do not promote sin. I have written that it I believe it is a sin now because the current understanding is from a heterosexual lens. At all times, I was clear that it is my thinking alone and that I do not know what the answer is for two persons, of the same sex, who freely love each other and desire to commit to each other for life. I still do not know and I am hopeful that the more we talk/pray about this the more clear the answer will be.
You know, you just don't like the answer.
jrico2727
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AG
At what point do we recognize homo-gnosticism for what it is?

After all we're being told that the scripture and traditions that extend thousands of years are wrong if seen through a hetro lense. You must have the special knowledge given to a few elect by the Holy Spirit. The Synod collects those from the periphery who don't have the burdensome and corrupted hetro- world view. They are vessels of the Holy Spirit and the god of surprises.

But don't let your bigoted hetroness deceive you. Obviously what you see isn't what it is because your vision is currently blurred.

Right??????
PabloSerna
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AG
RAB91 said:

PabloSerna said:


I do not promote sin. I have written that it I believe it is a sin now because the current understanding is from a heterosexual lens. At all times, I was clear that it is my thinking alone and that I do not know what the answer is for two persons, of the same sex, who freely love each other and desire to commit to each other for life. I still do not know and I am hopeful that the more we talk/pray about this the more clear the answer will be.
You know, you just don't like the answer.

"like" - Would not be the word that comes to mind. It is why I have written what I have written. I know more than a few homosexual persons (friends and family) and the last thing that comes to my mind is "sinful". So, I am as honest as I can be - it doesn't add up. If God is love, and what I am witnessing is "love" and I do agree that this is not marital love - what am I sensing?

For one, I am glad that we are talking about it as a church. Even the exchange I had with Zobel was very instructive and gave me more to contemplate.

The Pope said it before, "There has to be a way" or something along those lines. It's not sacramental marriage for all the obvious reasons. Relations between a man and a woman are quite settled (dating, marriage, divorce, death). You can trace this development all the way back through the bible. It has progressed (to borrow the Pope's words).

For now - we talk, we pray, we listen. I seriously doubt in my lifetime there will be any doctrinal development. I'm not gay and it does not affect me beyond my heartfelt compassion for my LGBTQ brothers and sisters. I pray for them who so greatly desire to be true to themselves and in full communion with the Church.

ETA: Jrico... "homo-gnosticism"?? Let me get back to you on that.

Howdy Dammit
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AG
PabloSerna said:

RAB91 said:

PabloSerna said:


I do not promote sin. I have written that it I believe it is a sin now because the current understanding is from a heterosexual lens. At all times, I was clear that it is my thinking alone and that I do not know what the answer is for two persons, of the same sex, who freely love each other and desire to commit to each other for life. I still do not know and I am hopeful that the more we talk/pray about this the more clear the answer will be.
You know, you just don't like the answer.

I pray for them who so greatly desire to be true to themselves and in full communion with the Church.



I pray that they have the power to overcome the sinful desires of the flesh. As we all are called to do. Don't disagree some people have a heavier cross though.
Dies Irae
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Free thinking? 38 bishops voted to change the Church's teaching (a teaching you yourself posted was already authoritatively declared) and you fall that Free thinking?

Why is bishop Strickland the bad guy and not these heterodox bishops?
Dies Irae
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Have you ever considered the fact that your concept of what "love" entails is flawed?

You're starting from the point that there's nothing wrong with homosexual relations, despite it being unanimously and continuously condemned by both scripture and Tradition, and trying to back into it because "I know gay people who are nice"

That's not how we do things. I know a lot of very nice people on Birth Control and I even have a friend who got an abortion and is unrepentant about it. Imagine me saying " I just wish the church had a teaching on abortion or birth control for me to follow".

The church has a teaching that is long and explicit on homosexual relations. You just don't like what it says
PabloSerna
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AG
Homosexual relationships in the Bible you say? Can you point me to that part of scripture please. Let's make it chapter and verse.

ETA: Just to be clear, I know what the Church has to say about homosexual acts.
Dies Irae
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PabloSerna said:

Homosexual relationships in the Bible you say? Can you point me to that part of scripture please. Let's make it chapter and verse.


Homosexual relations. Please read between the lines.
PabloSerna
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AG
Dies Irae said:

PabloSerna said:

Homosexual relationships in the Bible you say? Can you point me to that part of scripture please. Let's make it chapter and verse.


Homosexual relations. Please read between the lines.
Well I think THAT is why it deserves some more discussion.

I don't see any biblical references to the type of relationships LGBTQ people have/seek now (free, mutual loving, committed). There are examples of sexual violence (rape, exploitation, incest, etc.) but we can all agree that those are incredibly grave, sinful acts.

+++

"Have you ever considered the fact that your concept of what "love" entails is flawed?"

Of course.

If there is one thing I have learned from Aquinas, it is that our senses are a key to understanding the truth. I am grateful that I grew up in a loving home as a child and am blessed to say that my family (8 kids) is full of love (wife and I have been married 35+ years) - so I can sense what love is.

I think this love between the persons is the key. I understand that the physical act is contrary to the natural order and incapable to receive the gift of life from God. Therefore it cannot ever be on the level of marital love. Jesus says that no greater love can one have than to lay down their life for a friend (JN 15:13). So it may be more like philia love, but deeper maybe?
Dies Irae
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Cardinal Muller with full throated defense of Bishop Strickland in recent interview German Catholic website kath.net

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-cardinal-muller-defends-bishop-strickland-he-should-definitely-not-resign/

Quote:

In a statement published on kath.net September 21, Mller offered his support to Strickland. "It is terrible what is being done to Bishop Strickland, an abuse of office against the divine right of the episcopate," stated Mller.

"If I could advise Bishop Strickland, he should definitely not resign, because then they [Vatican authorities] can wash their hands of it," added the German cardinal.
Bob Lee
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AG
PabloSerna said:

Dies Irae said:

PabloSerna said:

Homosexual relationships in the Bible you say? Can you point me to that part of scripture please. Let's make it chapter and verse.


Homosexual relations. Please read between the lines.
Well I think THAT is why it deserves some more discussion.

I don't see any biblical references to the type of relationships LGBTQ people have/seek now (free, mutual loving, committed). There are examples of sexual violence (rape, exploitation, incest, etc.) but we can all agree that those are incredibly grave, sinful acts.

+++

"Have you ever considered the fact that your concept of what "love" entails is flawed?"

Of course.

If there is one thing I have learned from Aquinas, it is that our senses are a key to understanding the truth. I am grateful that I grew up in a loving home as a child and am blessed to say that my family (8 kids) is full of love (wife and I have been married 35+ years) - so I can sense what love is.

I think this love between the persons is the key. I understand that the physical act is contrary to the natural order and incapable to receive the gift of life from God. Therefore it cannot ever be on the level of marital love. Jesus says that no greater love can one have than to lay down their life for a friend (JN 15:13). So it may be more like philia love, but deeper maybe?


What do you think Paul means in Romans 1 when he talks about men forgoing natural relations with women in favor of shameful and perverse relations with each other?

If your friends were named in Paul's letters, you might still find a way to rationalize their behavior. Homosexual relations are part and parcel of homosexual relationships. You can't shelve an aspect of their relationship that's part of its essence, and claim in every other respect it resembles love, so it's love.
PabloSerna
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AG
"perverse relations" is not in any of the bibles I am searching. Maybe you are trying to force something that isn't there? Here is what I am tracking ROM 1:26-27 (RSV)

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

+++

It would seem that "passions" and "shameless acts" are self directed and not self giving love.

I agree with you that you cannot separate the act from the person. This is why the RCC is solidly against any form of contraception. It refuses the gift of life from God.

I have searched, as have others, and there is no equivalent in the bible of the type of relationship LGBTQ people have for comparison.

Also, the reason God gave them up is important. Have to read back to understand. Again, apples to oranges.

ETA: Then again... passion. Maybe that is something.
Bob Lee
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AG
PabloSerna said:

"perverse relations" is not in any of the bibles I am searching. Maybe you are trying to force something that isn't there? Here is what I am tracking ROM 1:26-27 (RSV)

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

+++

It would seem that "passions" and "shameless acts" are self directed and not self giving love.

I agree with you that you cannot separate the act from the person. This is why the RCC is solidly against any form of contraception. It refuses the gift of life from God.

I have searched, as have others, and there is no equivalent in the bible of the type of relationship LGBTQ people have for comparison.

Also, the reason God gave them up is important. Have to read back to understand. Again, apples to oranges.

ETA: Then again... passion. Maybe that is something.



Here: https://bible.usccb.org/bible/romans/1

The idea that Paul would be totally fine with homosexual relations in the context of a committed relationship is revisionist nonsense. There's no evidence for it, and relationships of the kind you're describing existed in Greco-Roman culture which Paul had extensive knowledge of, and in popular literature of the time including Plato's symposium. It is not a modern novelty.
747Ag
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AG
PabloSerna said:

"perverse relations" is not in any of the bibles I am searching. Maybe you are trying to force something that isn't there? Here is what I am tracking ROM 1:26-27 (RSV)

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

+++

It would seem that "passions" and "shameless acts" are self directed and not self giving love.

I agree with you that you cannot separate the act from the person. This is why the RCC is solidly against any form of contraception. It refuses the gift of life from God.

I have searched, as have others, and there is no equivalent in the bible of the type of relationship LGBTQ people have for comparison.

Also, the reason God gave them up is important. Have to read back to understand. Again, apples to oranges.

ETA: Then again... passion. Maybe that is something.


Contraception, self abuse, adultery, fornication, and homosexual acts fail to be virtuous for the same basic reason... that they offend against the ends of marriage. No parsing of words changes this. No so-called new learning changes this. Pushing for something else is a deviation from the moral teachings of Holy Church and is moral heresy. They are endangering souls, including their own. Our Blessed Lord, in all synoptic Gospels, speaks of millstones for such scandal introduced to little ones by those charged with teaching.
fc2112
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I can assure you all that Bishop Strickland has no intention of quitting or retiring. If the pope wants to remove him, he can and will be obedient to being removed. But he does not believe he can quit or retire - he took an oath.
ChiefHaus
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The further along we get from 1970, the more it looks like two different religions. The truth is the same as it always has been. The question that should be asked, who is speaking truth? From what I can tell, Bishop Strickland is defending truth in the statements he has made so far.

Pablo, quick question. I am no good a technology, but if you head to youtube and type in the search bar: "gay catholic couple gives homily at Mass" A youtube short will come up. I am curious as to your thoughts on having a homosexual couple give a homily in the middle of a Catholic Mass? It happened a year or two ago in the diocese of Chicago.
The Banned
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Maybe the worst part is that the homily is specifically reserved for the priest or deacon. That priest should have come under harsh punishment just for allowing ANYONE to come and give the homily, much less a couple of men living is grave sin
Dies Irae
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The Banned said:

Maybe the worst part is that the homily is specifically reserved for the priest or deacon. That priest should have come under harsh punishment just for allowing ANYONE to come and give the homily, much less a couple of men living is grave sin


I try to go to daily mass when I'm out on business trips and have nothing better to do, I've seen a ton of nuns giving homilies before. Always extremely liberal and focused on promoting left wing politics. I even saw one give communicate the Priest one time. Churches are running wild
747Ag
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AG
Dies Irae said:

The Banned said:

Maybe the worst part is that the homily is specifically reserved for the priest or deacon. That priest should have come under harsh punishment just for allowing ANYONE to come and give the homily, much less a couple of men living is grave sin


I try to go to daily mass when I'm out on business trips and have nothing better to do, I've seen a ton of nuns giving homilies before. Always extremely liberal and focused on promoting left wing politics. I even saw one give communicate the Priest one time. Churches are running wild.

In the old Usus Antiquior, today's Gospel was Matthew 22:34-46. Two greatest commandments. This passage in recent years reminds me of an insight from Fr. Charles Murr... namely that these two commandments are inverted in application. Our Blessed Lord states elsewhere, "If you love Me, you will keep My commands." It's not if you keep His commands, you will love Him. Order vs disorder.

In the sermon, Fr. Joe did speak on the confusions of the day, and how we must come back to Jesus Christ. Indeed we must, for there is no other way. We must turn back to Him. We must repent. We would do well to beg for His mercy.

For certain, the two greatest commandments are inverted. We are lectured by unbelievers on how to be Christian, yet said admonition lacks the call to holiness and fails to impell us to discipleship. Our spiritual leaders in many cases do likewise. We hear of climatology, virology, immigration, and various pelvic issues yet few call us to deepen our relationship with Jesus Christ. Who are we? Whom do we serve?

What a time to be alive. These times are ripe for saints to emerge. Christendom is gone, yet I wish for its restoration. Ven. Fulton Sheen says as much in a 1974 talk. 1974. He illustrates vividly a lot of what we are seeing today. He concludes in a jarring manner (at least for me) that we are telling our Blessed Lord to come down from that Cross. Jarring.

Video is approximately 40 minutes....


Related, a good and holy priest offers a possible solution. Catholics, we don't know who we are. We've forgotten much of our patrimony in recent decades. We've compromised with the world and others such that we have no clue from where we've come. Sure, some of this was done of pure heart and the best intentions. Fasting is almost a forgotten relic. Abstinence from meat was year-round. Holy days are frequently transferred to Sunday. Devotions and sodalities are not common. Again, do we even know our Blessed Lord? Do we even pray? Do we continue trying to tell others about us and our Lord if we have no real sense of who we are and who He is?

Best homily I've ever heard. And it's not about the Latin Mass per se, yet it provides the impetus for discussion. Moreover, this is in the ordinary form of the Latin Rite. Link should take you to the appropriate time stamp. 20-ish minutes.


If you've endured all of this, you have a good grasp as to where I am coming from. My ultimate desire is souls for Christ.
hockeyag
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AG
Thank you for posting that moving sermon!
The Banned
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Dies Irae said:

The Banned said:

Maybe the worst part is that the homily is specifically reserved for the priest or deacon. That priest should have come under harsh punishment just for allowing ANYONE to come and give the homily, much less a couple of men living is grave sin


I try to go to daily mass when I'm out on business trips and have nothing better to do, I've seen a ton of nuns giving homilies before. Always extremely liberal and focused on promoting left wing politics. I even saw one give communicate the Priest one time. Churches are running wild


That is genuinely mind blowing. It's canon law. How can bishops not be reprimanding these priests? Yet it is Strickland that is the problem.
PabloSerna
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AG
Chief - I have heard their "reflection" not "homily" - yes.

I don't have a problem with the permission granted to have this on Father's Day in a church that has a reputation for being active in these matters. They are very clear that their situation is different, radical inclusion, from other parishes. I think the part that resonated with me was that they tried for a very long time to "pray the gay away." Imagine that. They prayed and remained the same. It should be a reminder that even the Catechism states that the origins of homosexual orientation remain unexplained. There is so much we don't know.

We do know that any sex outside of the sacrament of matrimony is a sin (gay or straight). Even masturbation and lust (watch those hotties pages!). Just being gay - not a sin.

Dies Irae
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PabloSerna said:

Chief - I have heard their "reflection" not "homily" - yes.

I don't have a problem with the permission granted to have this on Father's Day in a church that has a reputation for being active in these matters. They are very clear that their situation is different, radical inclusion, from other parishes. I think the part that resonated with me was that they tried for a very long time to "pray the gay away." Imagine that. They prayed and remained the same. It should be a reminder that even the Catechism states that the origins of homosexual orientation remain unexplained. There is so much we don't know.

We do know that any sex outside of the sacrament of matrimony is a sin (gay or straight). Even masturbation and lust (watch those hotties pages!). Just being gay - not a sin.




If I had a mistress would it be appropriate for me to give a reflection next to her during mass after the gospel, or does the radical inclusion extend only to the progressive cause dujour?

 
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