craigernaught said:

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"Politician X is more truthful than my friends and family" is an absolutely bonkers position regardless of who it is. Even crazier that this person is Donald Trump of all people.

I understand that some people's family's are awful and that some people have no real friends, but people who put this much effort into becoming the world's most powerful person are by definition insane, amoral, nut jobs. We'd all be better off assuming that all politicians are lying literally all the time.

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Fenrir said:

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Malibu said:

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Fenrir said:

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schmendeler said:

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Trump - 71%

Religious Leaders - 42%

From our latest @cbsnews polling ===> pic.twitter.com/C3UXTtVfEx

— Scott MacFarlane (@MacFarlaneNews) August 20, 2023

Lol

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Among trump voters, not among Christians which was supposed to be the debate to be had on this thread. Giving more credence to my belief that this is just fabricated masturbatory material for obsessed people. And that you though this poll was in support of the original claim is moreso evidence that this thread is a troll or you lack any ability to understand basic statistics.

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Do you think Trump voters and Christians are two Venn circles that dont touch? I think that you and others cannot grasp that Trump also impacted Christianity and not in a good way.

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Where did I say that? OP is the one claiming that they are the same circle. Drawing conclusions that have been drawn with the information that is provided is nonsensical and not surprising.

There is no evidence provided in this thread that Trump has had a profound impact on Christianity and there is no argument that can be made with the information provided unless the assumption is that all Trump voters are Christians and vice versa. This entire thread is just another example of the jump to conclusion mat being utilized.

If you're going to make or support a claim that there is a crisis among Christians selecting a politician over their faith I feel like you should have at least some amount of evidence instead of just pulling non-supported opinions out of your ass like has been done repeatedly within this thread.

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AGC said:

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The poll and article have not been demonstrated to overlap anywhere that matters. The poll did not ask who they trusted more on the be-attitudes or Christ's teachings.

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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The poll and article have not been demonstrated to overlap anywhere that matters. The poll did not ask who they trusted more on the be-attitudes or Christ's teachings.

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Like, whats going on here? We had a bunch of Yahoos on January 6th raid the Capitol along with a crazy Q Anon conspiracy cult that heavily attracted self-identified Christians and its not remotely tracking to some of y'all that ministers would note their flock saying turning the other cheek is weak or that some of us noticed in our personal lives our friends and family of faith may be acting a little more like Trump and less like Christ?

I have no doubt if the poll asked who they trust more, Jesus or Trump, Jesus would win in a blowout. But if also asked to decide between turning the other cheek and loving your enemies versus fighting and confronting the results wouldnt be as decisive of a blowout for Jesus.

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Again, confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.

I tried to spell out for you who Russell Moore is early on. Quite frankly none of y'all seemed to care. He's an elite moving with the culture who wrote a book about being a victim. He's not a pastor and hasn't been. He's been a theologian in residence, whatever the hell that is.

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Quote:

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Schmendeler posted a poll hiding behind the facade of a veneer of legitimacy that falls apart with any scrutiny and you've jumped all over it simply because you agree with it. I get that you want a nice, neat narrative that places no blame whatsoever for this cultural moment on the left and condemns the big cheetoh but let's be real: education and government have worked to de-Christianize culture and the public sphere and this is what's left. Sorry it isn't what you wanted!

Schmendelers poll even says 'infrequent' church goers.

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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The poll and article have not been demonstrated to overlap anywhere that matters. The poll did not ask who they trusted more on the be-attitudes or Christ's teachings.

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Like, whats going on here? We had a bunch of Yahoos on January 6th raid the Capitol along with a crazy Q Anon conspiracy cult that heavily attracted self-identified Christians and its not remotely tracking to some of y'all that ministers would note their flock saying turning the other cheek is weak or that some of us noticed in our personal lives our friends and family of faith may be acting a little more like Trump and less like Christ?

I have no doubt if the poll asked who they trust more, Jesus or Trump, Jesus would win in a blowout. But if also asked to decide between turning the other cheek and loving your enemies versus fighting and confronting the results wouldnt be as decisive of a blowout for Jesus.

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Again, confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.

I tried to spell out for you who Russell Moore is early on. Quite frankly none of y'all seemed to care. He's an elite moving with the culture who wrote a book about being a victim. He's not a pastor and hasn't been. He's been a theologian in residence, whatever the hell that is.

Schmendeler posted a poll hiding behind the facade of a veneer of legitimacy that falls apart with any scrutiny and you've jumped all over it simply because you agree with it. I get that you want a nice, neat narrative that places no blame whatsoever for this cultural moment on the left and condemns the big cheetoh but let's be real: education and government have worked to de-Christianize culture and the public sphere and this is what's left. Sorry it isn't what you wanted!

Schmendelers poll even says 'infrequent' church goers.

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AGC said:

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He lit a match and tried to burn stuff down on his way out of the SBC while claiming he was booted for bringing accountability. Open letters, releasing secret recordings through underlings, repudiating big wins like Dobbs, and other theological drift that you probably don't care about. He's friends with Francis Collins and backed the left's shut everything down strategy during COVID.

If not maga means instant street cred you're a man with a hammer looking for a nail. It's ok to say you don't know who he is and you're not well read on why he's not the man you think he is. He's a house evangelical.

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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He lit a match and tried to burn stuff down on his way out of the SBC while claiming he was booted for bringing accountability. Open letters, releasing secret recordings through underlings, repudiating big wins like Dobbs, and other theological drift that you probably don't care about. He's friends with Francis Collins and backed the left's shut everything down strategy during COVID.

If not maga means instant street cred you're a man with a hammer looking for a nail. It's ok to say you don't know who he is and you're not well read on why he's not the man you think he is. He's a house evangelical.

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I asked if he was a liar. I am not familiar with all of the drama about him leaving SBC, but is he a liar? Him being not MAGA was because of how you characterized him, not as meaningful bona fides.

I did research his opinion on Dobbs and your claim that he repudiated it is not accurate. What he did say, that the Church should support vulnerable women and that being pro-life is more than just ending abortion...are you actually taking issue with that?

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I don't know which pastors he talked to and if it's true or not. I don't think that was the point of his anecdote - he wanted instant buy in from the audience and that was the easiest way there without asking how good a job his friends were doing as preachers with their flock. It worked for half this forum didn't it? Immediately we started getting stories about family members that are the exact same.

All the same his path is a winding one going back years and he's been steering the ERLC to the left for a long time now, to the point where he had to leave because he's not theologically aligned with his constituency and trump was an easy exit. Now he's a victim (per his book) and a prophet (per his Jeremiad column) speaking the word of God to a wayward people. What does truth have to do with any of that? It's politics as much for him as anyone else.

'Being pro-life is more than ending abortion' is the current liberal Christian mantra used to push back on Dobbs. As if saving babies relieves parents of their responsibility and puts it on someone else. Like the Christians who look to end abortion don't adopt and foster already and support those who do. That's why it's so trite a column. Yes, they're pro 'whole life' so if you can't take care of them the entire time they're alive it's ok to abort.

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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He lit a match and tried to burn stuff down on his way out of the SBC while claiming he was booted for bringing accountability. Open letters, releasing secret recordings through underlings, repudiating big wins like Dobbs, and other theological drift that you probably don't care about. He's friends with Francis Collins and backed the left's shut everything down strategy during COVID.

If not maga means instant street cred you're a man with a hammer looking for a nail. It's ok to say you don't know who he is and you're not well read on why he's not the man you think he is. He's a house evangelical.

---

I asked if he was a liar. I am not familiar with all of the drama about him leaving SBC, but is he a liar? Him being not MAGA was because of how you characterized him, not as meaningful bona fides.

I did research his opinion on Dobbs and your claim that he repudiated it is not accurate. What he did say, that the Church should support vulnerable women and that being pro-life is more than just ending abortion...are you actually taking issue with that?

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I don't know which pastors he talked to and if it's true or not. I don't think that was the point of his anecdote - he wanted instant buy in from the audience and that was the easiest way there without asking how good a job his friends were doing as preachers with their flock. It worked for half this forum didn't it? Immediately we started getting stories about family members that are the exact same.

All the same his path is a winding one going back years and he's been steering the ERLC to the left for a long time now, to the point where he had to leave because he's not theologically aligned with his constituency and trump was an easy exit. Now he's a victim (per his book) and a prophet (per his Jeremiad column) speaking the word of God to a wayward people. What does truth have to do with any of that? It's politics as much for him as anyone else.

'Being pro-life is more than ending abortion' is the current liberal Christian mantra used to push back on Dobbs. As if saving babies relieves parents of their responsibility and puts it on someone else. Like the Christians who look to end abortion don't adopt and foster already and support those who do. That's why it's so trite a column. Yes, they're pro 'whole life' so if you can't take care of them the entire time they're alive it's ok to abort.

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Youve tried repeatedly to make your case that Moore isnt someone we should listen to and when I ask if hes a known liar, you point me to a laundry list of "hes a liberal" talking points but none of those address his credibility. Just that you dont like him. Ok, well, the point of this thread is MAGA Christians. Ive made my case MAGA Christians liking Trump more than acting like Christ is a thing, and I'm pulling teeth getting y'all to acknowledge that it may be a thing.

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You're white knighting for a guy you don't know talking about a religion you don't believe in relying on anecdotes which don't have enough detail to be evidence and hoping we concede something? Maybe your uncle bob in west Texas and some anonymous pastors you heard about second hand with no information isn't a great source to base your ideas on.

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dermdoc said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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He lit a match and tried to burn stuff down on his way out of the SBC while claiming he was booted for bringing accountability. Open letters, releasing secret recordings through underlings, repudiating big wins like Dobbs, and other theological drift that you probably don't care about. He's friends with Francis Collins and backed the left's shut everything down strategy during COVID.

If not maga means instant street cred you're a man with a hammer looking for a nail. It's ok to say you don't know who he is and you're not well read on why he's not the man you think he is. He's a house evangelical.

---

I asked if he was a liar. I am not familiar with all of the drama about him leaving SBC, but is he a liar? Him being not MAGA was because of how you characterized him, not as meaningful bona fides.

I did research his opinion on Dobbs and your claim that he repudiated it is not accurate. What he did say, that the Church should support vulnerable women and that being pro-life is more than just ending abortion...are you actually taking issue with that?

---

I don't know which pastors he talked to and if it's true or not. I don't think that was the point of his anecdote - he wanted instant buy in from the audience and that was the easiest way there without asking how good a job his friends were doing as preachers with their flock. It worked for half this forum didn't it? Immediately we started getting stories about family members that are the exact same.

All the same his path is a winding one going back years and he's been steering the ERLC to the left for a long time now, to the point where he had to leave because he's not theologically aligned with his constituency and trump was an easy exit. Now he's a victim (per his book) and a prophet (per his Jeremiad column) speaking the word of God to a wayward people. What does truth have to do with any of that? It's politics as much for him as anyone else.

'Being pro-life is more than ending abortion' is the current liberal Christian mantra used to push back on Dobbs. As if saving babies relieves parents of their responsibility and puts it on someone else. Like the Christians who look to end abortion don't adopt and foster already and support those who do. That's why it's so trite a column. Yes, they're pro 'whole life' so if you can't take care of them the entire time they're alive it's ok to abort.

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Youve tried repeatedly to make your case that Moore isnt someone we should listen to and when I ask if hes a known liar, you point me to a laundry list of "hes a liberal" talking points but none of those address his credibility. Just that you dont like him. Ok, well, the point of this thread is MAGA Christians. Ive made my case MAGA Christians liking Trump more than acting like Christ is a thing, and I'm pulling teeth getting y'all to acknowledge that it may be a thing.

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You're white knighting for a guy you don't know talking about a religion you don't believe in relying on anecdotes which don't have enough detail to be evidence and hoping we concede something? Maybe your uncle bob in west Texas and some anonymous pastors you heard about second hand with no information isn't a great source to base your ideas on.

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Agree. Just say you hate Trump and anyone who votes for him. The Christian view does not matter to you except to call them hypocrites.

Which is fine. Just be honest.

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kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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He lit a match and tried to burn stuff down on his way out of the SBC while claiming he was booted for bringing accountability. Open letters, releasing secret recordings through underlings, repudiating big wins like Dobbs, and other theological drift that you probably don't care about. He's friends with Francis Collins and backed the left's shut everything down strategy during COVID.

If not maga means instant street cred you're a man with a hammer looking for a nail. It's ok to say you don't know who he is and you're not well read on why he's not the man you think he is. He's a house evangelical.

---

I asked if he was a liar. I am not familiar with all of the drama about him leaving SBC, but is he a liar? Him being not MAGA was because of how you characterized him, not as meaningful bona fides.

I did research his opinion on Dobbs and your claim that he repudiated it is not accurate. What he did say, that the Church should support vulnerable women and that being pro-life is more than just ending abortion...are you actually taking issue with that?

---

I don't know which pastors he talked to and if it's true or not. I don't think that was the point of his anecdote - he wanted instant buy in from the audience and that was the easiest way there without asking how good a job his friends were doing as preachers with their flock. It worked for half this forum didn't it? Immediately we started getting stories about family members that are the exact same.

All the same his path is a winding one going back years and he's been steering the ERLC to the left for a long time now, to the point where he had to leave because he's not theologically aligned with his constituency and trump was an easy exit. Now he's a victim (per his book) and a prophet (per his Jeremiad column) speaking the word of God to a wayward people. What does truth have to do with any of that? It's politics as much for him as anyone else.

'Being pro-life is more than ending abortion' is the current liberal Christian mantra used to push back on Dobbs. As if saving babies relieves parents of their responsibility and puts it on someone else. Like the Christians who look to end abortion don't adopt and foster already and support those who do. That's why it's so trite a column. Yes, they're pro 'whole life' so if you can't take care of them the entire time they're alive it's ok to abort.

---

Youve tried repeatedly to make your case that Moore isnt someone we should listen to and when I ask if hes a known liar, you point me to a laundry list of "hes a liberal" talking points but none of those address his credibility. Just that you dont like him. Ok, well, the point of this thread is MAGA Christians. Ive made my case MAGA Christians liking Trump more than acting like Christ is a thing, and I'm pulling teeth getting y'all to acknowledge that it may be a thing.

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You're white knighting for a guy you don't know talking about a religion you don't believe in relying on anecdotes which don't have enough detail to be evidence and hoping we concede something? Maybe your uncle bob in west Texas and some anonymous pastors you heard about second hand with no information isn't a great source to base your ideas on.

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Agree. Just say you hate Trump and anyone who votes for him. The Christian view does not matter to you except to call them hypocrites.

Which is fine. Just be honest.

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No one has said they hate everyone that votes for Trump or that the Christian view doesn't matter or that they are all hypocrites. I believe that you want to believe this narrative because it reinforces your resentment of people with different political opinions.

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dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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He lit a match and tried to burn stuff down on his way out of the SBC while claiming he was booted for bringing accountability. Open letters, releasing secret recordings through underlings, repudiating big wins like Dobbs, and other theological drift that you probably don't care about. He's friends with Francis Collins and backed the left's shut everything down strategy during COVID.

If not maga means instant street cred you're a man with a hammer looking for a nail. It's ok to say you don't know who he is and you're not well read on why he's not the man you think he is. He's a house evangelical.

---

I asked if he was a liar. I am not familiar with all of the drama about him leaving SBC, but is he a liar? Him being not MAGA was because of how you characterized him, not as meaningful bona fides.

I did research his opinion on Dobbs and your claim that he repudiated it is not accurate. What he did say, that the Church should support vulnerable women and that being pro-life is more than just ending abortion...are you actually taking issue with that?

---

I don't know which pastors he talked to and if it's true or not. I don't think that was the point of his anecdote - he wanted instant buy in from the audience and that was the easiest way there without asking how good a job his friends were doing as preachers with their flock. It worked for half this forum didn't it? Immediately we started getting stories about family members that are the exact same.

All the same his path is a winding one going back years and he's been steering the ERLC to the left for a long time now, to the point where he had to leave because he's not theologically aligned with his constituency and trump was an easy exit. Now he's a victim (per his book) and a prophet (per his Jeremiad column) speaking the word of God to a wayward people. What does truth have to do with any of that? It's politics as much for him as anyone else.

'Being pro-life is more than ending abortion' is the current liberal Christian mantra used to push back on Dobbs. As if saving babies relieves parents of their responsibility and puts it on someone else. Like the Christians who look to end abortion don't adopt and foster already and support those who do. That's why it's so trite a column. Yes, they're pro 'whole life' so if you can't take care of them the entire time they're alive it's ok to abort.

---

Youve tried repeatedly to make your case that Moore isnt someone we should listen to and when I ask if hes a known liar, you point me to a laundry list of "hes a liberal" talking points but none of those address his credibility. Just that you dont like him. Ok, well, the point of this thread is MAGA Christians. Ive made my case MAGA Christians liking Trump more than acting like Christ is a thing, and I'm pulling teeth getting y'all to acknowledge that it may be a thing.

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You're white knighting for a guy you don't know talking about a religion you don't believe in relying on anecdotes which don't have enough detail to be evidence and hoping we concede something? Maybe your uncle bob in west Texas and some anonymous pastors you heard about second hand with no information isn't a great source to base your ideas on.

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Agree. Just say you hate Trump and anyone who votes for him. The Christian view does not matter to you except to call them hypocrites.

Which is fine. Just be honest.

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No one has said they hate everyone that votes for Trump or that the Christian view doesn't matter or that they are all hypocrites. I believe that you want to believe this narrative because it reinforces your resentment of people with different political opinions.

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I do not resent anybody. I just read posts and make observations. In my opinion, from reading posts there is a lot of resentment towards people who have different political opinions than the libs.

There is a caricature of Christians who vote for Trump on here. Pretty obvious to see.

And I really wish some of you would visit a church or two and see how these people are in real life.

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dermdoc said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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Malibu said:

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AGC said:

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He lit a match and tried to burn stuff down on his way out of the SBC while claiming he was booted for bringing accountability. Open letters, releasing secret recordings through underlings, repudiating big wins like Dobbs, and other theological drift that you probably don't care about. He's friends with Francis Collins and backed the left's shut everything down strategy during COVID.

If not maga means instant street cred you're a man with a hammer looking for a nail. It's ok to say you don't know who he is and you're not well read on why he's not the man you think he is. He's a house evangelical.

---

I asked if he was a liar. I am not familiar with all of the drama about him leaving SBC, but is he a liar? Him being not MAGA was because of how you characterized him, not as meaningful bona fides.

I did research his opinion on Dobbs and your claim that he repudiated it is not accurate. What he did say, that the Church should support vulnerable women and that being pro-life is more than just ending abortion...are you actually taking issue with that?

---

I don't know which pastors he talked to and if it's true or not. I don't think that was the point of his anecdote - he wanted instant buy in from the audience and that was the easiest way there without asking how good a job his friends were doing as preachers with their flock. It worked for half this forum didn't it? Immediately we started getting stories about family members that are the exact same.

All the same his path is a winding one going back years and he's been steering the ERLC to the left for a long time now, to the point where he had to leave because he's not theologically aligned with his constituency and trump was an easy exit. Now he's a victim (per his book) and a prophet (per his Jeremiad column) speaking the word of God to a wayward people. What does truth have to do with any of that? It's politics as much for him as anyone else.

'Being pro-life is more than ending abortion' is the current liberal Christian mantra used to push back on Dobbs. As if saving babies relieves parents of their responsibility and puts it on someone else. Like the Christians who look to end abortion don't adopt and foster already and support those who do. That's why it's so trite a column. Yes, they're pro 'whole life' so if you can't take care of them the entire time they're alive it's ok to abort.

---

Youve tried repeatedly to make your case that Moore isnt someone we should listen to and when I ask if hes a known liar, you point me to a laundry list of "hes a liberal" talking points but none of those address his credibility. Just that you dont like him. Ok, well, the point of this thread is MAGA Christians. Ive made my case MAGA Christians liking Trump more than acting like Christ is a thing, and I'm pulling teeth getting y'all to acknowledge that it may be a thing.

---

You're white knighting for a guy you don't know talking about a religion you don't believe in relying on anecdotes which don't have enough detail to be evidence and hoping we concede something? Maybe your uncle bob in west Texas and some anonymous pastors you heard about second hand with no information isn't a great source to base your ideas on.

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Agree. Just say you hate Trump and anyone who votes for him. The Christian view does not matter to you except to call them hypocrites.

Which is fine. Just be honest.

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Quote:

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do not post "gotcha" articles to try to impugn the majority of Biden voters are godless or whatever.

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