We're violent because we don't emphasize that all life is precious and that every single man, woman, and child is created in the image of God.
Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it. 🙏 pic.twitter.com/nAnmjp4i1T
— Daniel Defense (@DanielDefense) May 16, 2022
Ol_Ag_02 said:
We're violent because we don't emphasize that all life is precious and that every single man, woman, and child is created in the image of God.
Macarthur said:
There's no single thing to point to but it is clear that we have a sickness.
This is being reported as the gun dealer that sold the gun to the kid in Uvalde. If you don't see this as a part of this sickness, you need to do some soul searching.Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it. 🙏 pic.twitter.com/nAnmjp4i1T
— Daniel Defense (@DanielDefense) May 16, 2022
schmendeler said:Ol_Ag_02 said:
We're violent because we don't emphasize that all life is precious and that every single man, woman, and child is created in the image of God.
Ok, now do Europe.
Macarthur said:
I don't believe this.
Macarthur said:
There's no single thing to point to but it is clear that we have a sickness.
This is being reported as the gun dealer that sold the gun to the kid in Uvalde. If you don't see this as a part of this sickness, you need to do some soul searching.Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it. 🙏 pic.twitter.com/nAnmjp4i1T
— Daniel Defense (@DanielDefense) May 16, 2022
Exactly.schmendeler said:Ol_Ag_02 said:
We're violent because we don't emphasize that all life is precious and that every single man, woman, and child is created in the image of God.
Ok, now do Europe.
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This is where my mind goes in this debate also. There is something unique about America that goes beyond religiosity. I'm sure there are holes to punch in the image below, but the point I think is that the number of school shootings we have compared to the rest of the first world countries is so frightening.
Macarthur said:
You look at that ad in light of yesterday and this being the group that supplied the gun, and that is your takeaway?
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Yesterday was gut wrenching. I have no idea who or what Daniel defense is. The gun was supplied by a local gun shop per my understanding.
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My point is that the root of gun violence like this is usually broken homes and disturbed family structures.
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At the end of the day the second amendment was designed for one thing and that is a check on government. I do not trust our government to be benevolent or protect our freedoms. Within the last two years you've had government officials actively proposing to remove children from homes for failing to take a vaccine that many here probably had religious objections to.
Macarthur said:Quote:
Yesterday was gut wrenching. I have no idea who or what Daniel defense is. The gun was supplied by a local gun shop per my understanding.
I've seen both so I guess we don't know yet, but even if they didn't, that ad should be very disturbing, Uvalde issue aside.Quote:
My point is that the root of gun violence like this is usually broken homes and disturbed family structures.
No argument here, but again, as the graphic showed, other countries face the same issue of broken homes and strained family structures, but it doesn't result in mass shootings.Quote:
At the end of the day the second amendment was designed for one thing and that is a check on government. I do not trust our government to be benevolent or protect our freedoms. Within the last two years you've had government officials actively proposing to remove children from homes for failing to take a vaccine that many here probably had religious objections to.
And here we start to get to the issue. Let me let you in on a little secret. If you and 5000 of your AR buddies got together to take our authoritarian government, I can assure you a drone would take you 5000 out in probably 10 minutes or less. This is such an assinine argument. You really think you can fight the government?
Macarthur said:
5 million...lol.
Yes, it's asinine. This is a fantasy world you're describing.
Ol_Ag_02 said:
We're really moving more to a politics thread at this point and you're vastly oversimplifying what a overthrow of a tyrannical government would look like, and which branches of the military and police side with which faction. But a short answer is 5000 maybe, 5MM absolutely.
Guns in a citizenry is a deterrent to government overreach and there's nothing asinine about that. Again see my point about people proposing removing children from homes by force or forcefully moving people to quarantine camps for not behaving as authorized.
Did it happen here no. Is it more likely to happen in the future with an unarmed society, absolutely, it happened in Australia. No one wants to go door to door to forcefully remove someone's child when they'll be met with firepower and a parent with nothing to lose.
Again, yesterday was terrible but policy and law shouldn't be made as the result of emotion and anger.
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our obsessions with guns is pouring gasoline on any and every situation that comes up.
larry culpepper said:
The whole idea of "I have muh guns to fight the tyrannical gubbment" is nothing more than a stupid fantasy, almost as stupid as Texas seceding.
It made sense in the 18th century when we were being harassed by a British monarch. But it's such a silly idea now. You have every right to protect yourself and your family but please stop it with this fantasy about you and your well armed friends overthrowing the democrats or something.
And a bunch of kids being murdered in a classroom isn't an acceptable price to pay for this fantasy.
Ol_Ag_02 said:Macarthur said:
There's no single thing to point to but it is clear that we have a sickness.
This is being reported as the gun dealer that sold the gun to the kid in Uvalde. If you don't see this as a part of this sickness, you need to do some soul searching.
Well.
For starters the kid in the picture appears to have a father in his life. This man Ramos, did not.
Serotonin said:
Here's my best swag at guessing what drives the difference in homicides between the USA and EU:
- Racial differences: ~85%
- Age distribution: ~5-10%
- Gun laws/other: ~5-10%
Homicide rate:
EU: 1.23
USA: 7.80
Gap = 6.57
Homicide rate:
EU: 1.23
USA (White): 2.20
Gap = 0.97
Homicide rate:
EU (2009 when age distribution more in line with USA): 1.78
USA (White): 2.20
Gap = 0.52
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/21/how-america-compares-to-the-world-when-split-by-race
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/Homicide-and-suicide-rates-in-the-EU-are-falling
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If we ever elect an American Joseph Stalin and the US military is convinced to murder tens of millions of Americans. . . . then we'll need those guns.
In any comparative analysis or regression modeling a social scientist will tease out different independent variables (including demographic) to see what is causing what.Sapper Redux said:Serotonin said:
Here's my best swag at guessing what drives the difference in homicides between the USA and EU:
- Racial differences: ~85%
- Age distribution: ~5-10%
- Gun laws/other: ~5-10%
Homicide rate:
EU: 1.23
USA: 7.80
Gap = 6.57
Homicide rate:
EU: 1.23
USA (White): 2.20
Gap = 0.97
Homicide rate:
EU (2009 when age distribution more in line with USA): 1.78
USA (White): 2.20
Gap = 0.52
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/21/how-america-compares-to-the-world-when-split-by-race
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/Homicide-and-suicide-rates-in-the-EU-are-falling
Why is race being used as the dividing point? What exactly is it definitive for?
Maybe you dont, but lots of others do. It's the excuse used to justify a wild west approach to guns. Dont regulate anything, all laws are an infringement.Ol_Ag_02 said:larry culpepper said:
The whole idea of "I have muh guns to fight the tyrannical gubbment" is nothing more than a stupid fantasy, almost as stupid as Texas seceding.
It made sense in the 18th century when we were being harassed by a British monarch. But it's such a silly idea now. You have every right to protect yourself and your family but please stop it with this fantasy about you and your well armed friends overthrowing the democrats or something.
And a bunch of kids being murdered in a classroom isn't an acceptable price to pay for this fantasy.
And clearly, as I said a couple of times, I have no fantasies about doing anything of that.
Try and have a good day guys.
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In any comparative analysis or regression modeling a social scientist will tease out different independent variables (including demographic) to see what is causing what.
Serotonin said:In any comparative analysis or regression modeling a social scientist will tease out different independent variables (including demographic) to see what is causing what.Sapper Redux said:Serotonin said:
Here's my best swag at guessing what drives the difference in homicides between the USA and EU:
- Racial differences: ~85%
- Age distribution: ~5-10%
- Gun laws/other: ~5-10%
Homicide rate:
EU: 1.23
USA: 7.80
Gap = 6.57
Homicide rate:
EU: 1.23
USA (White): 2.20
Gap = 0.97
Homicide rate:
EU (2009 when age distribution more in line with USA): 1.78
USA (White): 2.20
Gap = 0.52
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/21/how-america-compares-to-the-world-when-split-by-race
https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/Homicide-and-suicide-rates-in-the-EU-are-falling
Why is race being used as the dividing point? What exactly is it definitive for?
Yes, great point, and just expanded my post before reading yours to reflect that.diehard03 said:Quote:
In any comparative analysis or regression modeling a social scientist will tease out different independent variables (including demographic) to see what is causing what.
You need to be careful. A social scientist would also look at the socioeconomic elements to determine if skin color is really a factor...of it there's a disparity happening to a particular skin color in America.
Race is always hard, because sometimes race is meant all those factors rolled in, and others interpret as purely skin color.