The (New) Global Methodist Church

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The Shank Ag
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4:39p, 2/26/23
Our vote is March 9. I'll be there voting.

I've visited 2 different churches this month in anticipation of the vote going the way I'm pretty sure it's going to go. Today's adventure to cleburne Bible may end up being the spot. It'll take forever for me to get used to 30 minutes straight of praise band music to start a service, and not having a true alter, but the message definitely lined up
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UTExan
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In reply to nortex97 • 4:54p, 2/26/23
nortex97 said:
Plano was continuing to withhold funds for payment the whole time, it just wasn't passing them on until an agreement was reached. There was never an attempt/effort to leave without paying.

Personally, I think it's sorta obvious why the vote was held on a Tuesday evening; only the active members on board with the disaffiliation would be most likely to show up, as was the case. There was already no going back though, clearly.

Folks should realize the clergy in UMC (and those disaffiliating maintain of course) the defined benefit retirement pension/plans. None of them would want to risk that in the congregational movement(s).


I thought Wespath was going to continue to manage retirement funds for both clergy and lay church employees regardless of whether they stay or leave the UMC.
https://www.wespath.org/News/CEO-Blog-0001#!/page:1
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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Fishing Fools
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5:33p, 2/26/23
^
I believe you are correct.
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MooreTrucker
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In reply to 12thMan9 • 7:20a, 2/27/23
AG
12thMan9 said:


Our previous leader, Dr. Jim Jackson, has a daily note he sends out. He indicated some time ago that this was about money, not so much what sex one prefers or practices. I tend to believe he's correct.
I go to First in Lubbock. Jim Jackson was a former and favorite pastor of ours.

First Lubbock is set to vote next Sunday, and the entire process has been set up to ensure a "stay" vote. Little to no info has been given out to the majority of the congregation, and what has been given out ranges from vague to pretty much full of misleading verbiage. The vote is set at 2:00 pm, and you have to be IN THE ROOM at that time to vote. It's not a come-and-go thing (making it difficult for some folks to have to come back to the church to vote). There has been no discernment process other than a couple of open but unpublicized church council meetings that were manipulated as to what the speaker could say and the questions that could be asked.

Most "stay and don't change anything" folks don't realize that 195 of the 204 churches of the NWTX conference have voted to leave, so the conference is no more. So it's NOT gonna stay the same. Period. But First Lubbock is one of the largest churches in the conference, so they're fighting HARD to hold on to it.

And our church leadership is making sure that this information, and all other possible repercussions of staying, is kept under wraps as much as possible. Any info about leaving is presented in the worst possible light and mistruths are being perpetuated. One person I know well thinks that the options are staying and keeping things status quo or leaving, joining the GMC, and removing any and all gay people in the manner the African GMC churches have. And another person simply classifies the disaffiliate crowd as liberal-haters.
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SW AG80
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10:22a, 2/27/23
AG
UMC absolutely does want to keep the big, money giving congregations.
We go to Coker UMC in San Antonio. One of the biggest in the Rio conference. Last Sunday we had a presentation by a person from GMC.

Yesterday we had a presentation from the UMC. Most of the presentation yesterday was from the bishop of the Rio Conference. He stated that he was not trying to persuade anyone but he certainly talked up the UMC and said the GMC would have problems getting preachers. One important thing he mentioned was he thought in the 2024 General Conference that the Book of Discipline would be "loosened" and the UMC would see more of what is going on in the western states, which is where gay clergy have been ordained. So essentially, the bishop insinuated that the UMC would be more liberal in the future.

The DS also spoke. He did say that he watched the GMC presentation from last week and every thing she stated was correct. Overall, his presentation was not very good.

Our preacher, who I have not been a big fan of, has been very neutral and has been very open about the pros and cons. In fact, I get the feeling that he will be staying with a church that will be part of the GMC. That maybe because he likes San Antonio and likes Coker, and the 2 straw polls have Coker voting 72% to disaffiliate.

So we are fortunate to have had a lengthy and open discernment process. One written question presented to the DS was from a member of a smaller community outside of San Antonio who said their church was not allowing a discernment process nor a vote on disaffiliation. Instead of the DS saying come talk to me after we are through he just blew the question off.
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UTExan
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In reply to SW AG80 • 12:01p, 2/27/23
If 195 of 204 churches are voting to disaffiliate, that big Lubbock church is going to have problems surviving. I contend this is not about gay clergy so much as it is about the UMC ordaining and promoting people who should not be ministers or pastors or leaders because of their (fill in the blank- ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender) and failing to tune in to laity on Biblical authority. And there is just some poor governance on the part of bishops as well.

Oops, sorry SWAg, that was for Moore Trucker.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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SW AG80
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In reply to UTExan • 12:14p, 2/27/23
AG
One thing that bothers me about the UMC is that there is a book of rules (Book of Discipline) that are not enforceable. And even if the rules were enforceable, the UMC looks the other way on the rules they do not want enforced.
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MooreTrucker
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In reply to UTExan • 12:43p, 2/27/23
AG
UTExan said:
If 195 of 204 churches are voting to disaffiliate, that big Lubbock church is going to have problems surviving. I contend this is not about gay clergy so much as it is about the UMC ordaining and promoting people who should not be ministers or pastors or leaders because of their (fill in the blank- ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender) and failing to tune in to laity on Biblical authority. And there is just some poor governance on the part of bishops as well.

Oops, sorry SWAg, that was for Moore Trucker.
The church will have trouble surviving simply because a lot of the big money will leave if the vote is to stay, and they see the manipulation that's happening.
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MooreTrucker
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In reply to SW AG80 • 12:45p, 2/27/23
AG
SW AG80 said:
One thing that bothers me about the UMC is that there is a book of rules (Book of Discipline) that are not enforceable. And even if the rules were enforceable, the UMC looks the other way on the rules they do not want enforced.
That's my biggest problem with the whole thing. We have a book of rules that are being ignored. The main rules being ignored involve the gay clergy/gay marriage, so the "stay" folks are making it ALL about that and not the finance/bureaucracy and ignoring rules part of it.
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SW AG80
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12:58p, 2/27/23
AG
You and I are of the same mind.

As an aside, Christmas 2015 (I think) we were stuck in Ruidoso because of snowstorm. My FIL had fallen and we needed to get back to San Antonio. You were a big help as to where not to go to get home safely.

Maybe we will meet someday. I
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UTExan
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In reply to SW AG80 • 1:05p, 2/27/23
SW AG80 said:
One thing that bothers me about the UMC is that there is a book of rules (Book of Discipline) that are not enforceable. And even if the rules were enforceable, the UMC looks the other way on the rules they do not want enforced.


That's the poor bishop's governance part. If you look at a traditionalist website, like Juicy Ecumenism, you read accounts of how bishops are trying to rig the information dissemination process and seem to rule by politically correct consensus rather than the Discipline.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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Fishing Fools
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8:47p, 3/3/23
Sad it has come to this.


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SW AG80
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8:58p, 3/3/23
AG
Which church is that for?
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Fishing Fools
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In reply to SW AG80 • 9:30p, 3/3/23
SW AG80 said:
Which church is that for?


I believe a Church In Tennessee.
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nortex97
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In reply to UTExan • 8:56a, 3/4/23
AG
UTExan said:
SW AG80 said:
One thing that bothers me about the UMC is that there is a book of rules (Book of Discipline) that are not enforceable. And even if the rules were enforceable, the UMC looks the other way on the rules they do not want enforced.


That's the poor bishop's governance part. If you look at a traditionalist website, like Juicy Ecumenism, you read accounts of how bishops are trying to rig the information dissemination process and seem to rule by politically correct consensus rather than the Discipline.
Correct. The "Adam Hamilton" wing (aka rainbow left) ultimately has taken full control over the UMC, since 2019.

Rules and doctrine don't matter to them, power does.
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Captain Pablo
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11:02a, 3/4/23
AG
The UMC will wither and fade away

Just like the ELCA and PCUSA

It is a certainty
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88Warrior
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In reply to Captain Pablo • 11:10a, 3/4/23
Captain Pablo said:
The UMC will wither and fade away

Just like the ELCA and PCUSA

It is a certainty


You sir, are correct…In rapid fashion once the big traditional churches finish bolting.
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Captain Pablo
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In reply to 88Warrior • 11:52a, 3/4/23
AG
88Warrior said:
Captain Pablo said:
The UMC will wither and fade away

Just like the ELCA and PCUSA

It is a certainty


You sir, are correct…In rapid fashion once the big traditional churches finish bolting.


Yup. And if a big church doesn't bolt, a big portion of the membership will, and then the church will founder

Liberals don't build. They tear down
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Fins Up!
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In reply to Captain Pablo • 12:15p, 3/4/23
AG
Captain Pablo said:
The UMC will wither and fade away

Just like the ELCA and PCUSA

It is a certainty


Speaking from experience, this is spot on. The small town churches are the ones being destroyed because many of them don't have the money to leave. But the members will leave, or pass away. And they cannot attract young families because of their non-Bible based theology. Most liberals I know are atheist or agnostic. Who does the ELCA, PCUSA, and UMC think their new members will be?

I can't help but think this is part of the left's design, and being controlled by Satan.

I have long said that the Moderator of the General Assembly of the PCUSA is a demon, placed there by Satan.

The path forward for Methodists is the GMC. If you are Lutheran it is the LCMS, or WELS. If you are Presbyterian it is the ECO or the EPC (or PCA).
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MooreTrucker
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6:33p, 3/5/23
AG
First UMC Lubbock voted 69% to 31% to remain UMC. The sr pastor did what he was sent to do.
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The Shank Ag
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4:23p, 3/7/23
Our vote is Thursday.

Gut now says its 70-30 stay.

Church is full of a ton of young families, and a ton of older couples (60+). Not a ton of the 40-60 group. I fall into the former and am probably one of the few that is for disaffiliation in that group. Probably an 80-20 split in the 40 and under crowd. The older crowd is much more 50-50 or even 1/3-2/3 in favor of leaving, but it just isn't going to happen.


In preparation of knowing how the vote is going to come down, in the past month we have tried

-Non-denom church: HARD PASS. Preacher speaking in tongues and prosperity gospel sermon)

-Bible Church: Not bad at all. Knew lots of people, great sermon, not a fan of 30 minutes straight of singing praise songs before getting into anything but thats an adjustment i'd be able to get used to making

-Baptist Church: Never thought I would say I attended one voluntarily, and ashamed I took that attitude going into it. Beautiful service with lots of what I loved about the methodist church. Hymns. Bell choir. And to top it off, the preacher opened to Acts 18, read a couple verses, talked about the historical nature of it, talked about how it relates to today. Read another couple verses. Repeat the process until Acts 18 was done. Was almost like a bible study over a sermon, but I very much enjoyed it.
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88Warrior
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 7:24p, 3/7/23
The Shank Ag said:
Our vote is Thursday.

Gut now says its 70-30 stay.

Church is full of a ton of young families, and a ton of older couples (60+). Not a ton of the 40-60 group. I fall into the former and am probably one of the few that is for disaffiliation in that group. Probably an 80-20 split in the 40 and under crowd. The older crowd is much more 50-50 or even 1/3-2/3 in favor of leaving, but it just isn't going to happen.


In preparation of knowing how the vote is going to come down, in the past month we have tried

-Non-denom church: HARD PASS. Preacher speaking in tongues and prosperity gospel sermon)

-Bible Church: Not bad at all. Knew lots of people, great sermon, not a fan of 30 minutes straight of singing praise songs before getting into anything but thats an adjustment i'd be able to get used to making

-Baptist Church: Never thought I would say I attended one voluntarily, and ashamed I took that attitude going into it. Beautiful service with lots of what I loved about the methodist church. Hymns. Bell choir. And to top it off, the preacher opened to Acts 18, read a couple verses, talked about the historical nature of it, talked about how it relates to today. Read another couple verses. Repeat the process until Acts 18 was done. Was almost like a bible study over a sermon, but I very much enjoyed it.


Shank..Hope you and your family find a home….Luckily our church voted over 90+% to leave..impressive considering it's a 7500 member church…We're officially independent for now until we decide on either the Global Methodist or another Wesleyan based denomination…Incredible the energy our congregation now has since leaving!
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crockerdan04
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7:32p, 3/7/23
AG
This past Sunday at a special Annual Conference meeting, 41 churches in the North Texas conference were approved for disaffiliation, my childhood church being one of them.
The church leadership will have a meeting with the GMC leaders in the next couple of weeks to determine if they'll join the GMC.
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Fins Up!
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 7:49p, 3/7/23
AG
I pray y'all will find a new home. Leaving our old PCUSA church was excruciating, but well with it. The liturgy had become so woke that every Sunday we were confessing for racism, environmental damage, inequities, and praying for "justice."

After joining an ECO church, we are proudly Presbyterian again! I am going to Sunday school, and a Wednesday night Bible Study. I haven't been this engaged in years, and it is refreshing.

I simply cannot fathom why young Christian families would vote to stay UMC. The olds - I understand.

It'll work for y'all, one way or another.
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The Shank Ag
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10:12a, 3/9/23
Welp,

Tonights the night.

Email says it will go like this:

Sign In on roster and be seated(before 6:30, anyone after won't be allowed in)
Receive Ballot
Call to order
Presentation of the Motion
Vote Approve, Disapprove, or Abstain
Count Votes
Additional Information (as needed)/Closing Comments
Adjournment


On Tuesday night, I edited and sent my email to the membership address list that I posted for review here a couple weeks ago.

Only one person responded all to my email, asking for the "Electioneering" to stop. She also emailed me directly saying she was surprised that after witnessing a church split I was openly campaigning for another. I responded back directly saying that church membership is amazing, but honoring God's word and being true is what Church is supposed to be all about. I have not heard back.

Another replied directly, asking if I knew Paul's verse about Women should be silent in the church. And about all the dietary restrictions in levitical law. I replied directly that if he looked at the context of who Paul was referencing in Corinthians, it was women preaching incorrectly and acting in a way not to Christ's teachings. That Paul through Acts 18 praised and sent Aquila and his wife Priscilla to both spread the word in Corinth, Ephesus, and beyond. He also salutes Julia in Romans for her spreading the word, and entrusted Phoebe to deliver his letters in Romans. That Paul shows no misogyny and quite literally uses women to spread the word in churches all across the land. I also brought up how the new covenant removed these dietary restrictions as seen in Mark 7. I have not heard back.

Three others replied directly with praise for my email. So I received a feedback of 60% positive. Still not quite 66.6% and quite possibly many ruffled feathers didn't feel the need to respond.


I fully expect tonight to fail anywhere from 70-30 to 55-45 against disaffiliation. Unfortunately the children's minister posted a #StayUMC picture last night. I feel those employed by the church probably shouldn't be taking sides like that publicly. But maybe I'm mistaken in that view.
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SW AG80
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10:42a, 3/9/23
AG
The preachers in our church in San Antonio are going to announce their intentions at the very last meeting during the discernment process. I think they should not announce their personal feelings about this, but they see that a different way.

During our meetings and bible study regarding this process the pastors have been very good about remaining neutral and really have not shown which way they are leaning. Last night the associate pastor who is leading the bible study---if that is even the correct term for this type of study since we are also going over the Book of Discipline---sure gave me and my wife the impression that he will be leaving the UMC.

Our vote will be close, I think. Interesting process.
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The Shank Ag
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7:28p, 3/9/23
222 votes

72 for
150 against

32.43%

As the district superintendent is speaking before dismissing, taking a long last look at this place.
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88Warrior
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 8:11p, 3/9/23
The Shank Ag said:
222 votes

72 for
150 against

32.43%

As the district superintendent is speaking before dismissing, taking a long last look at this place.


Well that's no bueno…..Sorry to hear that…Any in your area that have voted to leave?
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The Shank Ag
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In reply to 88Warrior • 9:07p, 3/9/23
88Warrior said:
The Shank Ag said:
222 votes

72 for
150 against

32.43%

As the district superintendent is speaking before dismissing, taking a long last look at this place.


Well that's no bueno…..Sorry to hear that…Any in your area that have voted to leave?


We were the best bet of the 2 in town. Closest Global is 35 minutes away. We've sampled 3 other churches in anticipation of this result. We, again against my preconceived notions, will be continuing at First Baptist for the time being with if things continue to feel right there for another month, the prospect of becoming members
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Fins Up!
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 9:31p, 3/9/23
AG
Sorry to hear that TSA.
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razor63
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8:16a, 3/10/23
AG
TSA you had it pegged on the vote count. I know you are very disappointed, I would be. There are a few GMC options but like you said they are about 30 minutes away. Whitney, Hillsboro and Grandview all recently voted to leave.

I attend King Memorial in Whitney, it's incredible the amount of energy and enthusiasm in the church since voting to leave. We would love for you to join us.
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88Warrior
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In reply to razor63 • 9:15a, 3/10/23
razor63 said:
TSA you had it pegged on the vote count. I know you are very disappointed, I would be. There are a few GMC options but like you said they are about 30 minutes away. Whitney, Hillsboro and Grandview all recently voted to leave.

I attend King Memorial in Whitney, it's incredible the amount of energy and enthusiasm in the church since voting to leave. We would love for you to join us.
Razor….I can say the same thing about our church (Asbury-Tulsa). All those years of in fighting amongst the UMC sucked the life out of the traditional congregations. I really believe the split will be the basis of a revival in the traditional Wesleyan churches!
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dermdoc
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 9:28a, 3/10/23
AG
Sorry to hear. I am not Methodist but have many Methodist friends, including pastors, and this is a painful process.

Prayers for all the Methodist churches. Prayers for healing and peace.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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85aggie777
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In reply to dermdoc • 4:07p, 3/14/23
AG
dermdoc said:
Sorry to hear. I am not Methodist but have many Methodist friends, including pastors, and this is a painful process.

Prayers for all the Methodist churches. Prayers for healing and peace.
This is such a sad process, but one that was inevitable. I was a life-long Methodist with several generations of my family in Texas being Methodists as well.

I moved to California and joined a UMC there in the late 80s. The Cal-Pacific conference went progressive ahead of the other national conferences. We found ourselves making the decision to leave our church in 2013 after a sermon that finally took it past what we could tolerate as biblical. I was almost in tears the first Sunday we started church shopping because of the decision we had to make. It has been justified many times over since then, however.

I wish all of you the best as you go through the process of leaving... whether it's leaving with your church or as individuals.
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BoDog
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9:00a, 3/19/23
AG
Son finishing up confirmation and as soon as that is completed we are out. I almost feel guilty that I am looking forward to beginning the process of finding a new church home. We have been with our current church for 11 years but its time to move on. As I told my wife.... we are not leaving our church. Our church left us.
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