I hear that the Presbyterian church in Yorktown, TX is entering discernment with PCUSA and is in talks with the ECO. This is the way!

Anyone know for sure?

We're starting to bring in different denominations to listen to what they're about..The first three are the Free Methodist, Global Methodist and Evangelical Covenant Church. Anyone doing the same?

I think there is a good chance our church does that, but we are not far enough down the road yet. We just voted yesterday to disaffiliate.

SW AG80 said:

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Our Methodist Church is the 2 or 3 largest in San Antonio and thus one of the largest in the Rio Conference.

We voted today, 83-17, to disaffiliate from the UMC. We will later decide what we are going to do. It will be an interesting future for our church. But no doubt, both spiritually and financially, a wise decision.

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Do you mind saying what church this is in SA? If it is one of the largest, then I do not understand your voting numbers of only 100 votes. Just curious about that.

OldSchoolRdAg said:

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SW AG80 said:

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Our Methodist Church is the 2 or 3 largest in San Antonio and thus one of the largest in the Rio Conference.

We voted today, 83-17, to disaffiliate from the UMC. We will later decide what we are going to do. It will be an interesting future for our church. But no doubt, both spiritually and financially, a wise decision.

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Do you mind saying what church this is in SA? If it is one of the largest, then I do not understand your voting numbers of only 100 votes. Just curious about that.

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I assume that was percentages.

powerbelly said:

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OldSchoolRdAg said:

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SW AG80 said:

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Our Methodist Church is the 2 or 3 largest in San Antonio and thus one of the largest in the Rio Conference.

We voted today, 83-17, to disaffiliate from the UMC. We will later decide what we are going to do. It will be an interesting future for our church. But no doubt, both spiritually and financially, a wise decision.

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Do you mind saying what church this is in SA? If it is one of the largest, then I do not understand your voting numbers of only 100 votes. Just curious about that.

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I assume that was percentages.

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Okay, that makes sense.

Coker Methodist. And that was percentages

SW AG80 said:

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Coker Methodist. And that was percentages

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I thought that it might be Coker. Attended about 20 years ago. I am kind of surprised by the margin to disaffiliate. Must have a solid membership. Good for you.

SW AG80 said:

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I too was surprised by the margin. A bunch of older conservative people who are not afraid to make a change.

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Good for Coker. I'm a bit surprised, based on old knowledge of a former pastor there. But good for advancing the Gospel in San Antonio.

Anyone here have any summary and comments about the May 6 special meeting of the Rio conference? Curious how this went for the disaffiliating churches.

I thought it was set for early June?

SW AG80 said:

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I thought it was set for early June?

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That's the regular meeting. There was a special meeting on May 6 to vote on churches requesting disaffiliation.

HumpitPuryear said:

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Anyone here have any summary and comments about the May 6 special meeting of the Rio conference? Curious how this went for the disaffiliating churches.

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After church last Sunday, the word we received was 33 churches in Rio Texas were allowed to leave following the May meeting; however, they had to pay to be let go. With these 33 churches out, they will not be at Annual Conference in June to do any voting. The thought process is the remaining non-disaffiliating churches now outnumber the ones wanting to be let go. Any vote at Annual Conference will now go against disaffiliating churches which is exactly what the conference office wants. There are many disaffiliating churches like mine that do not want to pay the outgoing price that the conference wants to receive. If Annual Conference votes that way, then things will get very interesting from a legal point of view. Stay tuned!

Lawsuit ongoing in Georgia right now.

If that happens to our church I think we would go lawsuit route first. If that does not work then would buy or build our own church.

aggieband 83 said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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Anyone here have any summary and comments about the May 6 special meeting of the Rio conference? Curious how this went for the disaffiliating churches.

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After church last Sunday, the word we received was 33 churches in Rio Texas were allowed to leave following the May meeting; however, they had to pay to be let go. With these 33 churches out, they will not be at Annual Conference in June to do any voting. The thought process is the remaining non-disaffiliating churches now outnumber the ones wanting to be let go. Any vote at Annual Conference will now go against disaffiliating churches which is exactly what the conference office wants. There are many disaffiliating churches like mine that do not want to pay the outgoing price that the conference wants to receive. If Annual Conference votes that way, then things will get very interesting from a legal point of view. Stay tuned!

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Thanks. We are in discernment now. I'm in favor of disaffiliation but paying our dues to UMC. I think if we follow the rules we are in a better position if the conference doesn't hold up their end of the bargain.

I saw a metric recently that showed the vast majority of UMC wanting to disafiliate are in Texas. A small minority from outside Texas are in favor of it.

Grace Fellowship in Katy. We're pretty good size. We stopped paying our apportionments in 2019 but placed the money in escrow. In 2021 we disaffiliated and told the general conference they could have the money in escrow but we kept everything else. They took the deal

SW AG80 said:

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Lawsuit ongoing in Georgia right now.

If that happens to our church I think we would go lawsuit route first. If that does not work then would buy or build our own church.

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I'm not Methodist but I don't know why y'all don't just cut to the chase, leave those clowns behind, and do just that

But whatever. Your church

Captain Pablo said:

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SW AG80 said:

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Lawsuit ongoing in Georgia right now.

If that happens to our church I think we would go lawsuit route first. If that does not work then would buy or build our own church.

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I'm not Methodist but I don't know why y'all don't just cut to the chase, leave those clowns behind, and do just that

But whatever. Your church

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Maybe because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

Win At Life said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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SW AG80 said:

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Lawsuit ongoing in Georgia right now.

If that happens to our church I think we would go lawsuit route first. If that does not work then would buy or build our own church.

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I'm not Methodist but I don't know why y'all don't just cut to the chase, leave those clowns behind, and do just that

But whatever. Your church

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Maybe because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

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Exactly. Some of the small churches want to leave but can't afford it. I've heard of some dropping out and meeting in a school or whatever but can't afford to build their own building.

I am not a big fan of our physical facilities but most are. I am a relative new comer to this church so it is not a church home to me as it is to the ones who have been coming here for decades and have raised their children in this church.

I liken it to leaving a house. To me a house is an investment in bricks and wood. To my wife it is much more than that. Same way with our church.

And to replicate the physical facilities we now have will take a lot more than $1M.

And our church is named after the Coker family, who donated the land for a church. Not a Methodist church. Just a church. Mr. Coker was one of the men who blocked the bridge at the Battle of San Jacinto that kept the Mexicans from retreating. The Coker family cemetery is on a plot of land adjoining our church, with lots of historical gravesites in it. I don't know who that land belongs to nor what will happen to it with the split. So there is the historical significance, which I find fascinating.

MooreTrucker said:

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Win At Life said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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SW AG80 said:

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Lawsuit ongoing in Georgia right now.

If that happens to our church I think we would go lawsuit route first. If that does not work then would buy or build our own church.

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I'm not Methodist but I don't know why y'all don't just cut to the chase, leave those clowns behind, and do just that

But whatever. Your church

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Maybe because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

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Exactly. Some of the small churches want to leave but can't afford it. I've heard of some dropping out and meeting in a school or whatever but can't afford to build their own building.

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No doubt. That's how it's done. Takes time and money

SW AG80 said:

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I am not a big fan of our physical facilities but most are. I am a relative new comer to this church so it is not a church home to me as it is to the ones who have been coming here for decades and have raised their children in this church.

I liken it to leaving a house. To me a house is an investment in bricks and wood. To my wife it is much more than that. Same way with our church.

And to replicate the physical facilities we now have will take a lot more than $1M.

And our church is named after the Coker family, who donated the land for a church. Not a Methodist church. Just a church. Mr. Coker was one of the men who blocked the bridge at the Battle of San Jacinto that kept the Mexicans from retreating. The Coker family cemetery is on a plot of land adjoining our church, with lots of historical gravesites in it. I don't know who that land belongs to nor what will happen to it with the split. So there is the historical significance, which I find fascinating.

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Absolutely. That is fascinating. I can understand why y'all would like to keep it.

SW AG80 said:

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I am not a big fan of our physical facilities but most are. I am a relative new comer to this church so it is not a church home to me as it is to the ones who have been coming here for decades and have raised their children in this church.

I liken it to leaving a house. To me a house is an investment in bricks and wood. To my wife it is much more than that. Same way with our church.

And to replicate the physical facilities we now have will take a lot more than $1M.

And our church is named after the Coker family, who donated the land for a church. Not a Methodist church. Just a church. Mr. Coker was one of the men who blocked the bridge at the Battle of San Jacinto that kept the Mexicans from retreating. The Coker family cemetery is on a plot of land adjoining our church, with lots of historical gravesites in it. I don't know who that land belongs to nor what will happen to it with the split. So there is the historical significance, which I find fascinating.

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We have a similar situation. Property was donated to build a church in the 1850s. We don't have United Methodist mentioned anywhere in our deed. I think they would have a very hard time taking our property but I'm no real estate attorney. I bet your deed records are the same. I bet there's no mention of United Methodists.

I wish y'all well on the property issue. The general rule in the UMC is that any UMC church property is the actual property of the local (annual) conference, even though local members have the responsibility for upkeep, utilities and operating costs. Add to that a bishop's prerogative on reassignment of clergy (also members of the annual conference, not the local church) and you have an awful system in which nobody has the highest incentive to build up a local church since clergy are transient. It's not just about the sexuality issue but church (mis)governance itself driving the split.

UTExan said:

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I wish y'all well on the property issue. The general rule in the UMC is that any UMC church property is the actual property of the local (annual) conference, even though local members have the responsibility for upkeep, utilities and operating costs. Add to that a bishop's prerogative on reassignment of clergy (also members of the annual conference, not the local church) and you have an awful system in which nobody has the highest incentive to build up a local church since clergy are transient. It's not just about the sexuality issue but church (mis)governance itself driving the split.

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Exactly right. It's the sexuality issues that gets people fired up to stay or not, but the governance (and ignoring established discipline) that are the actual issues.

Our church had no mention of UMC in the deed and we were told that because of that, and something called the trust clause, we could leave with our building, etc. intact. Our sr pastor manipulated enough people that we voted to stay, and you can already see the negative results from that decision.

My Parents are members of A&M [United] Methodist for over 50 years and they had to stop with their financial support of that church because of them not having the opportunity to vote on going global. They feel there are plenty of other worthy causes out there.

southcsag said:

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My Parents are members of A&M [United] Methodist for over 50 years and they had to stop with their financial support of that church because of them not having the opportunity to vote on going global. They feel there are plenty of other worthy causes out there.

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Why didn't they have a vote? Did they just never consider leaving? I was curious if that church might go more progressive since it is located right next to a university.

Yeah, I would just vote with my feet.

Status of church withdrawals:
https://wng.org/opinions/the-faithful-head-for-the-exits-1684411721

3300 churches departed with 1000 or so in the queue:
" This month hundreds of congregations are being ratified for exit from the United Methodist Church, even as the deadline for disaffiliation fast approaches. In some Deep South regions, close to 40 to 50 percent of congregations are exiting. Does United Methodism even have a meaningful future in the Deep South? And what are its prospects as a national denomination as it further liberalizes?"

"As of today, May 18, no less than 3,356 United Methodist congregations were approved for exit. Likely another 1,000 or more are in the queue for exit ratification later this spring. On May 11, 132 churches were approved for exit by the North Alabama Conference, which already approved 198 exits on Dec. 10, 2022, for a total of 330 exiting churches, or over 50 percent of the total. Today, only 308 United Methodist churches remain in North Alabama."

" …the Houston area Texas Conference, on May 11, 20 more churches were approved for exit, adding to last year's 294, equaling 52 percent of the total."

"On May 7, the Alabama-West Florida Conference ratified 193 exiting churches. Last year 35 churches exited, bringing the total so far to 233, or about 36 percent of the total. Three hundred eighteen United Methodist churches remain in the conference, but there will be another round of exits later this year."

"In Western North Carolina on May 6, 193 churches were approved for exit, joining 41 who exited in 2022, or about 23 percent of the total. On April 22, the Holston area of eastern Tennessee and southwest Virginia approved 264 church exits, or 31 percent of their total churches."

" Not all church exit attempts were successful. In Virginia, in February, 34 churches were approved for exit. But one of the largest in the queue, New Town United Methodist in Williamsburg, was rejected for the second time. Descendants of the original landowner who gifted the property decades ago, including two ordained clergy, objected. The congregation responded by abandoning the property and reconvening in a local community center. They were to have paid the denomination $562,000 to exit. But now instead they will use that money to build a new church. Meanwhile, the old building, to which the bishop appointed a new pastor, stands almost empty, and predictably so. "

UTExan said:

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Status of church withdrawals:
https://wng.org/opinions/the-faithful-head-for-the-exits-1684411721

3300 churches departed with 1000 or so in the queue:
" This month hundreds of congregations are being ratified for exit from the United Methodist Church, even as the deadline for disaffiliation fast approaches. In some Deep South regions, close to 40 to 50 percent of congregations are exiting. Does United Methodism even have a meaningful future in the Deep South? And what are its prospects as a national denomination as it further liberalizes?"

"As of today, May 18, no less than 3,356 United Methodist congregations were approved for exit. Likely another 1,000 or more are in the queue for exit ratification later this spring. On May 11, 132 churches were approved for exit by the North Alabama Conference, which already approved 198 exits on Dec. 10, 2022, for a total of 330 exiting churches, or over 50 percent of the total. Today, only 308 United Methodist churches remain in North Alabama."

" …the Houston area Texas Conference, on May 11, 20 more churches were approved for exit, adding to last year's 294, equaling 52 percent of the total."

"On May 7, the Alabama-West Florida Conference ratified 193 exiting churches. Last year 35 churches exited, bringing the total so far to 233, or about 36 percent of the total. Three hundred eighteen United Methodist churches remain in the conference, but there will be another round of exits later this year."

"In Western North Carolina on May 6, 193 churches were approved for exit, joining 41 who exited in 2022, or about 23 percent of the total. On April 22, the Holston area of eastern Tennessee and southwest Virginia approved 264 church exits, or 31 percent of their total churches."

" Not all church exit attempts were successful. In Virginia, in February, 34 churches were approved for exit. But one of the largest in the queue, New Town United Methodist in Williamsburg, was rejected for the second time. Descendants of the original landowner who gifted the property decades ago, including two ordained clergy, objected. The congregation responded by abandoning the property and reconvening in a local community center. They were to have paid the denomination $562,000 to exit. But now instead they will use that money to build a new church. Meanwhile, the old building, to which the bishop appointed a new pastor, stands almost empty, and predictably so. "

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As I said earlier in this thread, this will be the fate of many if not most UMC churches, including those in grand buildings that housed once great congregations

Once the split is complete, the old loyalists will die off or just lose interest

New membership will not keep up

See PCUSA, ELCA, etc

All with wither away because there is no reason to join

Exactly! Our ECO Presbyterian church is thriving! And more are on the way to leave PCUSA and join the ECO.