The (New) Global Methodist Church

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UTExan
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12:13p, 4/30/22
Rev. Jeff Greenway of Reynoldsburg, OH breaks down what the new Global Methodist Church is about in this 7 minute video and about how it radically differs from the current United Methodist Church.
Quick takes: 125 churches in the current Central Texas conference are leaving the UMC to join;
the Bulgarian and Romanian Methodist churches are joining along with churches in Latin America and 5 African conferences.
The new church will not be UMC 2.0. It will have a lean bureaucracy with no guaranteed clergy appointments and no lifetime appointments for bishops, who will not be given large administrative burdens but will be charged with preaching and defending the faith. Path to ordination for clergy candidates will be more rapid once they have demonstrated ministerial competence.

It will be interesting to see how many American churches and current UMC pastors leave the denomination to join the Global Methodists.

Oh, and this new church launches May 1.

“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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nortex97
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12:42p, 4/30/22
AG
It is a sad but interesting time to be a methodist. Here is a surprisingly balanced analyses, imho, from Christianity Today. The American leftists are certainly dismayed that the Africans have rejected what they have been told to do.

The real issues are actually kind of simple I think: what is the authority and role of the clergy in relation to the authority and role of the congregation/congregants? This has been very structured and defined in methodism for the last 200 years. Now, there is a demand that UMC churches renounce what Christ said about man laying with man, because it is 'outdated' (and even our own supreme court justice can't tell who is a woman or not now). Over the last several years the likes of Jones/Hamilton etc. have strategized how to maximize their ability to control/limit congregations (most especially financially profitable ones in the midwest) from moving to this new denomination.

In a strange irony the UMC split will move many to gravitate to the free congregational model (per the speaker in the OP video, ahem, baptist) that enshrines actual authority in the congregation/congregants and treats the clergy as subordinates.

Unaddressed are the projections about where the various disaffected congregants will migrate: Roman Catholicism on one end of the spectrum and free will baptist on the other.

There might be a resurgence of "orthodox" catholicism (in America) if there is an infusion of high church methodists fleeing the free wheeling new UMC! I cannot be convinced God doesn't have a sense of humor.

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UTExan
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:18p, 4/30/22
I addressed Methodist dysfunction on the Politics board: I attribute it to a massive, largely unaccountable bureaucracy and their clergy/episcopal allies who used the finances of the church to forward their own, often progressive agendas at the expense of evangelism efforts.

I wouldn't exactly call the Global Methodist church a high church polity. It is probably more charismatic/evangelical with traditional added in.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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Fishing Fools
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12:30p, 5/1/22
Thank you for posting.

https://firebrandmag.com/articles/crossing-the-rubicon-a-bishop-says-goodbye-to-the-united-methodist-church?fbclid=IwAR12MPMe6MSDdS_cBz_YCXNRrvJWY9IE36VcnzjCIbqRYfjkbjoGePMwQ2Q
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aggieband 83
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8:04p, 5/1/22
AG
I have commented on a previous thread about a year ago about the possibility of the United Methodist Church splitting. I mentioned that my Dad was a pastor for 40+ years in the old Southwest Texas Conference & the current Rio Texas Conference. During his retirement, he was called by the conference to pastor a church on a part time basis until a full time pastor could be appointed. He never turned away from his calling, even in retirement.

I find myself struggling with the idea of not being a United Methodist. From the time I started Kindergarden until I graduated from TAMU, the conference moved our family 8 times. The conference moved Daddy 3 more times after I was living on my own until his retirement. After listening to the video clip posted by UTExan & reading the Bishop's letter of resignation posted by Fishing Fools, I find myself remembering Daddy telling me about the excitement he felt when he attended the merging of the Methodist Church with the Evangelical United Bretheren Church in 1968. This merging created the United Methodist Church. Dad's excitement could be heard and felt in his preaching style. Even as a young boy, I could tell he was excited about what was happening. After I was an adult living on my own, I could also tell the political side of the UMC was getting to him.

Daddy died this past August. I am very thankful that he did not live to see what appears to be an immanent split. I also have a strange sensation of what could happen when many of the local United Methodist churches join the Global Methodist Church. The excitement Dad felt felt in 1968 will also be felt by joining the Global Methodist Church. My local church has voted to leave the UMC if same sex marriages are allowed in the church & if gay/lesbian pastors are allowed to be Pastors at the local church level. We have talked about the possibility of joining the Global Methodist but have not voted on it yet. I feel when the time comes we will vote that way.

I want to feel the excitement that Dad felt. I want to stop the arguing over being politically correct. I want to stop watching the UMC lean further & further to the left. I feel like the UMC has left the traditional Wesleyan church in favor of being "woke". If the Global Methodist Church can provide the excitement that Dad felt, I am in favor of it.
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UTExan
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In reply to aggieband 83 • 10:43p, 5/1/22
I, too am excited for the new denomination, although there is not a GMC near me. Above everything, it puts Wesleyan Christianity back in the drivers seat and has a distaste for the bureaucracy-clergy lock on church polity which characterized the UMC. I suspect the new denomination, whose leaders have already demonstrated both a capacity to grow congregations and instituted healthy accountability programs (Methodist classes, bands reminiscent of the primitive Methodist movement) will see continued growth.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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nortex97
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In reply to UTExan • 9:40a, 5/2/22
AG
How do you know/check where a GMC possible/future denomination might be? I doubt we learn more really until it is all voted on in '24, but would love to know if any are planned already in North Texas.
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88Warrior
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In reply to nortex97 • 11:18a, 5/2/22
nortex97 said:
How do you know/check where a GMC possible/future denomination might be? I doubt we learn more really until it is all voted on in '24, but would love to know if any are planned already in North Texas.


Not sure there is a list out there yet but you can probably get a good idea if the church is a member of the Wesleyan Covenant Association (WCA) or not. The WCA has a website where you can find a church.
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nortex97
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In reply to 88Warrior • 11:23a, 5/2/22
AG
Oh ok thx. I seriously doubt any of the churches here in north Texas will work to join this denomination, partly because of the lack of commitment to a 'guaranteed' slot for the pastors. It's an odd disincentive, and I hope at least one or two conservative congregations form/decide otherwise. It sounds like it will be a 'battle' though for now.
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cavscout96
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11:44a, 5/2/22
AG
Christ (formerly UMC) in College Station made this move last week. I have friends there so i knew it was coming, but did not know it was coming this quickly.

Having been through, essentially, the same thing in the Anglican church, I get all of teh angst associated with it. In the end though, we must all stand firm in the Gospel.
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jp95
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2:12p, 5/2/22
AG
I am on the finance committee for our church in Red River County. Yesterday the finance committee and administrative council voted unanimously to pursue dissolving our ties with the UMC. I expect there to be many churches that also make this choice.
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88Warrior
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In reply to jp95 • 2:56p, 5/2/22
jp95 said:
I am on the finance committee for our church in Red River County. Yesterday the finance committee and administrative council voted unanimously to pursue dissolving our ties with the UMC. I expect there to be many churches that also make this choice.


Agreed on more to come. Our church (Asbury-Tulsa) voted last month to disaffiliate from the UMC as well. There seems to be a renewed energy within our church now knowing we can put all our energy on where it needs to go.
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UTExan
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:19p, 5/3/22
nortex97 said:
How do you know/check where a GMC possible/future denomination might be? I doubt we learn more really until it is all voted on in '24, but would love to know if any are planned already in North Texas.


Here is their website: they are looking at a 12-18 month transition as new churches come on board
https://globalmethodist.org/launch-information/
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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Fishing Fools
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6:38p, 5/5/22
Any of you making the Zoom meeting now?
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The Shank Ag
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10:41a, 5/6/22
My former youth pastor in Cleburne, now the head pastor of First Methodist Mansfield posted about it the other day. Said that while he can not tell people what to do in the situation, after speaking with leadership within the church, he recommended a transition to the Global Methodist Church. That said, with everything so new and more conversations among lay people wanting to be had, they are pausing any decision making process to open of more dialogue.

https://pastordavidalexander.com/umc3/?fbclid=IwAR1T4ZfIUMHc9J8xs-7LKOT_1fsOfBaaHJfSFhzbJ222sHahLnOqjW4behE

I have noticed a lot of the head pastors, especially those under the age of 50, in the UMC central conference lean rather left on things. I wonder what their process will be if their church votes to split off, and they don't want to. Do they immediately step down? Our pastor at FUMC Cleburne has discussed many options and what he anticipates the new landscape looking like.

Far left split (not yet named) --------------------------- UMC ---- Global


His explanation of how he views our church is somewhat like a tent. We have people on the far left side of the tent, people on the far right side of the tent, and the closer you get to the middle we have even more people. So while the majority of people are in the middle, the posts are still held up by both people on the right side and left side. I take by those comments, he wishes us to remain as a UMC church but would not outright say his position.

He did bring up the presbytarian church in town that went through something like this a few years ago. He asked the preacher there how many LGBT weddings they have done, how many LGBT people have been placed in presbytarian leadership roles around the area, and how many times has it been an issue. The P preacher replied 0 to all counts. He expects that when it comes to leadership within the UMC, they will "read the room" so to say, and not place someone in a position to fail.
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c-jags
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 11:55a, 5/6/22
The Shank Ag said:
He did bring up the presbytarian church in town that went through something like this a few years ago. He asked the preacher there how many LGBT weddings they have done, how many LGBT people have been placed in presbytarian leadership roles around the area, and how many times has it been an issue. The P preacher replied 0 to all counts. He expects that when it comes to leadership within the UMC, they will "read the room" so to say, and not place someone in a position to fail.
the presbyterian church went through a split as well. i would wager he was talking to a PCA church.
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UTExan
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 11:55a, 5/6/22
I think many of the younger UMC pastors lean left in an attempt to address real social issues, but I also think many ponder the job security offered to elders (full time ordained pastors) whereas in the Global Methodist churches they would not be guaranteed a job unless they were successful in ministry. IOW, it's really hard to get fired as a current UMC pastor.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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nortex97
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In reply to UTExan • 12:05p, 5/6/22
AG
Absolutely true.
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88Warrior
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In reply to UTExan • 1:09p, 5/6/22
UTExan said:
I think many of the younger UMC pastors lean left in an attempt to address real social issues, but I also think many ponder the job security offered to elders (full time ordained pastors) whereas in the Global Methodist churches they would not be guaranteed a job unless they were successful in ministry. IOW, it's really hard to get fired as a current UMC pastor.


Human nature to want job security but I'll take those who are steadfast and confident in their mission to preach the Good News and leave the UMC…To me it shows that they're committed. We have 3 associate pastors under 40 yrs old and none of them blinked an eye when we voted to disaffiliate from the UMC.
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cypress-ag
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1:08p, 6/29/22
AG
The local church we are apart of votes in August, and it will be to leave the UMC. What is being discussed is pausing the joing of GMC and staying as an independent under Wesley provisions..
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razor63
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10:22p, 7/14/22
AG
Our church sent in a letter of discernment in May. After a 30 day waiting period we were told the district superintendent would contact us (hasn't happened) and schedule a church vote. If a 2/3 majority voted to go Global then we were out. The rules changed after a new pastor arrived and said we had to have the church vote by July 31. Another admin council vote was then taken and I feel like they were bullied into pausing the vote until March 2023. I don't think the Global supporters had a 2/3 majority anyway.

The rules seem to change frequently with United. Its been a tough descision as I am a lifelong member but I am starting to look around for a new church. I don't feel like I am leaving United, I feel like United left me when they stopped enforcing there on rules according to the book of discipline.
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Pro Sandy
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In reply to razor63 • 8:39p, 7/15/22
AG
razor63 said:
Our church sent in a letter of discernment in May. After a 30 day waiting period we were told the district superintendent would contact us (hasn't happened) and schedule a church vote. If a 2/3 majority voted to go Global then we were out. The rules changed after a new pastor arrived and said we had to have the church vote by July 31. Another admin council vote was then taken and I feel like they were bullied into pausing the vote until March 2023. I don't think the Global supporters had a 2/3 majority anyway.

The rules seem to change frequently with United. Its been a tough descision as I am a lifelong member but I am starting to look around for a new church. I don't feel like I am leaving United, I feel like United left me when they stopped enforcing there on rules according to the book of discipline.
Grew up United Methodist but left over 10 years ago.

I still believe the doctrine is sound as stated in the Book of Discipline. But having heard dozens of Methodist pastors and one who preached from the Word and held to the Articles of Religion and the Confession of Faith being a minority, I couldn't stay in that denomination anymore.

Give me a good Wesleyan pastor from Asbury and I'll be satisfied, but they seem hard to find.
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88Warrior
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In reply to Pro Sandy • 9:07p, 7/15/22
Pro Sandy said:
razor63 said:
Our church sent in a letter of discernment in May. After a 30 day waiting period we were told the district superintendent would contact us (hasn't happened) and schedule a church vote. If a 2/3 majority voted to go Global then we were out. The rules changed after a new pastor arrived and said we had to have the church vote by July 31. Another admin council vote was then taken and I feel like they were bullied into pausing the vote until March 2023. I don't think the Global supporters had a 2/3 majority anyway.

The rules seem to change frequently with United. Its been a tough descision as I am a lifelong member but I am starting to look around for a new church. I don't feel like I am leaving United, I feel like United left me when they stopped enforcing there on rules according to the book of discipline.
Grew up United Methodist but left over 10 years ago.

I still believe the doctrine is sound as stated in the Book of Discipline. But having heard dozens of Methodist pastors and one who preached from the Word and held to the Articles of Religion and the Confession of Faith being a minority, I couldn't stay in that denomination anymore.

Give me a good Wesleyan pastor from Asbury and I'll be satisfied, but they seem hard to find.


Come to Tulsa Brother! Those pastors you seek are here!
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The Shank Ag
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11:07a, 7/16/22
https://www.concordchurchrox.org/about-us/gmc-vs-umc?fbclid=IwAR13M1Jh7PdZiZgpdeW9xIzyX1p73zOHhmCyywX34dwK5d6oW1Gjab8w_bs
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Fishing Fools
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10:28p, 7/16/22
Yes the rules always seemed to change. There's a lot of money involved and the UMC knows it.

The craziness is real.

https://spectator.org/methodist-church-first-drag-queen-pastor-god-is-nothing/
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nortex97
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 8:01a, 7/17/22
AG
That's very interesting. I wish we had a pastor around Frisco/Plano willing to lay it all out like that.
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twk
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In reply to The Shank Ag • 4:48p, 7/17/22
AG
Quote:
He did bring up the presbytarian church in town that went through something like this a few years ago. He asked the preacher there how many LGBT weddings they have done, how many LGBT people have been placed in presbytarian leadership roles around the area, and how many times has it been an issue. The P preacher replied 0 to all counts. He expects that when it comes to leadership within the UMC, they will "read the room" so to say, and not place someone in a position to fail.
Presbyterian governance is diametrically opposed to the episcopal system employed by the UMC. The congregation, through the session, hires and fires staff and generally governs the local congregation. The denomination does adopt a confession of faith, but there just isn't the same bureaucracy. They are not quite autonomous, but a lot closer to it than any methodist church.

As to how this schism in the methodist church is going down, the liberal pastors are simply trying to ignore it, so, as long as there is no one on the administrative council to push the issue, a lot of churches will just go on for a while as if nothing is happening. The pastor at the methodist church that I attended until recently had a meeting to discuss this issue just before covid that was well attended, but he tried to paint the folks wanting to leave as being, if not hateful, then something along the lines of deplorable, and gave out a survey for people to complete that was full of loaded questions. He hasn't said boo about it since, and all the other political remarks (unrelated to the gay issue) that the staff injected into services finally got to be too much for me. By the time I left, this once large congregation was reduced to having less than 100 in attendance. So, the wall of silence does not seem to be working. However, in small towns where options are limited, it's probably kept a lid on things a bit. But, at some point, people are going to catch on and demand a voice.
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Ag_of_08
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In reply to AGC • 4:15p, 7/18/22
AG
[You are trying to derail the topic of this thread. That's not going to be permitted. Consider yourself warned -- Staff]
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nortex97
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In reply to AGC • 7:58p, 7/18/22
AG
Yes. And this thread is about the methodist schism/new global methodist denomination, not homosexuality about which we have many dozens of threads already. Let's not tanya up this thread as to why the denomination is sadly fracturing.

Pedantic trolling doesn't help those of us looking for new/correct information as to the new Global Methodist congregations/decisions that are pending.
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razor63
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In reply to twk • 8:52a, 7/19/22
AG
twk said:
Quote:
As to how this schism in the methodist church is going down, the liberal pastors are simply trying to ignore it, so, as long as there is no one on the administrative council to push the issue, a lot of churches will just go on for a while as if nothing is happening. The pastor at the methodist church that I attended until recently had a meeting to discuss this issue just before covid that was well attended, but he tried to paint the folks wanting to leave as being, if not hateful, then something along the lines of deplorable, and gave out a survey for people to complete that was full of loaded questions. He hasn't said boo about it since, and all the other political remarks (unrelated to the gay issue) that the staff injected into services finally got to be too much for me. By the time I left, this once large congregation was reduced to having less than 100 in attendance. So, the wall of silence does not seem to be working. However, in small towns where options are limited, it's probably kept a lid on things a bit. But, at some point, people are going to catch on and demand a voice.
Sounds very familiar, we're a small church with about 60 in attendance on a good week. Our pastor never mentioned the issue. He told my wife he was "blind sided" and hurt when we took several members to a GMC meeting at another church. He was reappointed after the admin council voted to send a letter of discernment.
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nortex97
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In reply to razor63 • 9:10a, 7/19/22
AG
The Lubbock conference is supposed to be working on a decision this summer. Curious if anyone has heard anything.

I do think Bishop Scott Jones is flat out lying when he says he has worked to prevent this split for a long time; he and Adam Hamilton have driven this train. Anyway, still no public information I can find about DFW area churches beginning a process to move to the Global Methodist denomination.

Please do post a link if you're aware of any (anyone).
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The Shank Ag
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In reply to nortex97 • 11:56a, 7/19/22
nortex97 said:
The Lubbock conference is supposed to be working on a decision this summer. Curious if anyone has heard anything.

I do think Bishop Scott Jones is flat out lying when he says he has worked to prevent this split for a long time; he and Adam Hamilton have driven this train. Anyway, still no public information I can find about DFW area churches beginning a process to move to the Global Methodist denomination.

Please do post a link if you're aware of any (anyone).
Acton voted to move: https://actonmethodist.com/update
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Fishing Fools
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:31p, 7/19/22
White's Chapel, the largest church in our conference, was exploring disaffiliation. I don't know if they are starting the process just yet. Other large churches I've heard that are exploring disaffiliation are: Mansfield, Waco, Weatherford and others.
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UTExan
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10:13p, 7/19/22
I keep in touch with a former pastor of ours who is engaged in a social work ministry, appointed by the local bishop. He was offered a very lucrative pastoral assignment in the Salt Lake City area and he is a highly effective pastor at communicating the faith. But he flat out said he would take the lower paying social ministry because the church establishment claims diversity, but in fact is marginalizing and shutting out traditionalists (and evangelicals) like him. He frankly said the UMC needs to dissolve altogether.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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notex
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In reply to Fishing Fools • 9:06a, 7/23/22
AG
It does sound like Whites Chapel UMC is intent on exploring the options over the next two years.

Quote:
We are a congregation that practices a traditional view of marriage. However, we acknowledge that members of our congregation have a variety of perspectives on same- sex marriage and ordination standards. We reject the practice of compartmentalizing people into categories according to their actual or perceived perspectives.

We also recognize that we are living in a transitional season in the life of the Methodist movement. Countless factors that will determine the future of the Church are currently taking shape; as such, their "final forms" are not clearly in sight. Here are some of the unknowns we face:

  • Actions of 2024 General Conference
  • Shape, polity, and actual practice of the Global Methodist Church that launched on
    May 1 (GMC "Convening Conference" to be scheduled in about 18 months)
  • Actual shape/outcome of Christmas Covenant proposal (Could the United States have 3 regional conferences, rather than one? This would allow for progressive, center left, and center right Conferences to better align congregations with each other.) The Christmas Covenant will be presented/debated/amended/voted on at General Conference in the spring of 2024.
  • Future of the Central Texas Annual Conference (after exit of Global Methodist churches) will the CTC still exist, or will remaining churches be incorporated into other existing Conferences (North Texas, Texas, Northwest Texas)?
  • Could Texas be divided into theological Conferences (see Christmas Covenant above) rather than geographical?
  • Central Texas Cabinet is working on proposal to be presented in October 2022
  • Possibility of becoming a "federated church" that belongs to both United Methodist and the Global Methodist Churches
  • Possibility of becoming an independent Methodist church (What would the shape, polity, and practice of such an independent church look like? What does the process entail to create an independent, voluntary association of likeminded local churches?)

As leaders of White's Chapel, we should carefully and intentionally explore all options and seek the best course for the future of our church. Likewise, ample care, thought, and time should be given for a focused season of education and preparation for our congregation sharing information that will reinforce the direction that church leadership has prayerfully determined. During the season of unknowns that will exist for the next few years, we seek to continue the powerful ministry of White's Chapel that we have known for the past 151 years. We know that gossip and inuendo can flourish in an environment of unknowns and uncertainties. We know that ideas expressed in debate can be shared as fact, and that misrepresentations can and do occur.
I don't attend weekly services today, but will have to drive a bit out of my way to check them out. Subject to the 'feel' of the staff/congregation, I could see joining that church in the future.

It is sad that the 'progressive' groups/leaders are dragging all of this out for yet another 2 years, no doubt trying to retain as much $$$ and power as possible. I don't want to be involved until it is settled. Thx.
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