From everything I've read, every possible vaccine side effect is also seen at higher rates from COVID infection. So while we are concerned about pericarditis, myocarditis, and blood clots from vaccines, the actual COVID virus is notorious for all of these at much higher incidence.dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
How many typically die every day from respiratory viruses?schmendeler said:dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
This is a joke right? 800 people died at least partly from covid just yesterday in the US. I would love to see proof of 800 covid vaccine deaths in the last year.
schmendeler said:dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
This is a joke right? 800 people died at least partly from covid just yesterday in the US. I would love to see proof of 800 covid vaccine deaths in the last year.
No it is not a joke. You read the medical articles about deaths from the vax?schmendeler said:dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
This is a joke right? 800 people died at least partly from covid just yesterday in the US. I would love to see proof of 800 covid vaccine deaths in the last year.
But you have to stratify age groups.ramblin_ag02 said:From everything I've read, every possible vaccine side effect is also seen at higher rates from COVID infection. So while we are concerned about pericarditis, myocarditis, and blood clots from vaccines, the actual COVID virus is notorious for all of these at much higher incidence.dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
dermdoc said:But you have to stratify age groups.ramblin_ag02 said:From everything I've read, every possible vaccine side effect is also seen at higher rates from COVID infection. So while we are concerned about pericarditis, myocarditis, and blood clots from vaccines, the actual COVID virus is notorious for all of these at much higher incidence.dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
Was Covid or the vax more dangerous to people under 30 years of age?
AGC said:schmendeler said:dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
This is a joke right? 800 people died at least partly from covid just yesterday in the US. I would love to see proof of 800 covid vaccine deaths in the last year.
What do you mean partly from COVID? Are we talking 90 year olds? Obese people? Or healthy young 30 year olds with no comorbidities?
RAB91 said:Sapper Redux said:RAB91 said:Your years must be off. Omicron started in late '21. And by the time mandates were being strictly enforced my original statement stands. The arrogance of the medical community (not you personally) was a sight to behold. Between them ignoring natural immunity and them supporting mandates when the whole world knew of the lack of effectiveness, they've shown themselves to be completely 'following orders' types. It is sad, really.ramblin_ag02 said:Not exactly true. From the release of the vaccines until April/May 2021 (during the alpha wave), the vaccines were nearly miraculous. 95+% for preventing infeciton and spread. From April/May 2022 to Dec 2022 (the delta wave), they were 80% against infection and spread. Its only when omicron hit in Dec 2022 that we started seeing mass breakthrough infections and the vaccines started being used as disease mitigators instead of disease preventers. Honestly, the vaccines probably wouldn't have been approved in the first place based on their activity against omicron and it's subsequent variants. So the vaccines were underwhelming until the bivalent booster just came out that also works against omicron. But don't let that obscure the fact that they were amazing against alpha and pretty good against delta. All comments relate to the mRNA vaccines. The others were less effective than those at each step.RAB91 said:The vaccines did nothing with regards to getting it or transmitting it. They do help with the severity of it. Maybe if the CDC/Fauci had been honest about it from the beginning they would have better luck with it. Either way, we now know with 100% certainty that the vaccine mandates were both bad science and bad policy.Sapper Redux said:
Yes, the vaccines have worked. But if you don't take precautions and get vaccinated, viruses mutate and continue to mutate. We're currently dealing with a mix of RSV, flu, and COVID. It's a mess. Get the bivalent shot and your flu vaccine, folks.
"Natural immunity" requires getting the virus. Which has killed over 1 million Americans. And "natural immunity" offers no long term protection from Omicron.
I'll take my chances with my natural immunity. How many total shots are you up to?
ramblin_ag02 said:dermdoc said:But you have to stratify age groups.ramblin_ag02 said:From everything I've read, every possible vaccine side effect is also seen at higher rates from COVID infection. So while we are concerned about pericarditis, myocarditis, and blood clots from vaccines, the actual COVID virus is notorious for all of these at much higher incidence.dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
Was Covid or the vax more dangerous to people under 30 years of age?
https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/myocarditis-seven-times-more-likely-covid-19-vaccines/
I don't think anyone has studied age stratifications, but all the studies we have show the virus is more dangerous than the vaccine. Think about it. The problems that occur with the vaccine also occur with the virus. So there must be a common element between the two. The only things they have in common are specific RNA, spike proteins and the immune response to spike proteins. In each case you'll get a higher dose of all three in a systemic infection versus a vaccine. All the studies so far have been consistent with that.
As I have said, I'd put my money on the heart complications being due to antibodies against the spike protein cross-reacting with heart proteins. That's why young men, who tend to have the most robust immune systems, have this reaction more than other groups
Edit: found a preprint article that showed 6x more myocarditis in teens after covid infection compared with vaccination. Take it with a grain of salt as it is preprint, but it's consistent with the paper above and others I've seen
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8328065/
I do not think that is what is meant by the post.Sapper Redux said:AGC said:schmendeler said:dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
This is a joke right? 800 people died at least partly from covid just yesterday in the US. I would love to see proof of 800 covid vaccine deaths in the last year.
What do you mean partly from COVID? Are we talking 90 year olds? Obese people? Or healthy young 30 year olds with no comorbidities?
Are these the only people who count?
Although they used the term 'vaccine' (a poor choice in my opinion), I didn't and I don't think most people ever thought it would prevent the virus but rather reduced the likelihood of getting it and if you did it would help mitigate the symptoms. I always thought it was supposed to be like the annual flu shot. The mandates were to reduce the spread. Obviously there was a learning curve but I think if they had not had the mandates and waited a couple of years to gather more data about viable vaccines, the death toll would have been significantly higher.dermdoc said:I do not think that is what is meant by the post.Sapper Redux said:AGC said:schmendeler said:dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
This is a joke right? 800 people died at least partly from covid just yesterday in the US. I would love to see proof of 800 covid vaccine deaths in the last year.
What do you mean partly from COVID? Are we talking 90 year olds? Obese people? Or healthy young 30 year olds with no comorbidities?
Are these the only people who count?
Obviously, when assessing risk/benefit for each individual patient due to age, underlying conditions, etc.to determine whether the vax is more dangerous than the actual disease.
Since it was proven the vax did not prevent the transmission of the virus, I would be very hesitant to advise a healthy 20-30 y/o male to get the vax even if myocarditis risks were greater with the actual infection rather than the vaccine.
Odds are that patient will never get Covid, yet if you vax him he is exposed to a probably unnecessary spike protein barrage that he might not ever have had to experience.
Plus, as I mentioned before, the article (granted a preprint) needs to stratify Covid cases from different time periods. 2020 and early 2021 Covid was a totally different animal than 2022 Covid.
I am not convinced the vax reduced the spread so I do not see the reason for mandates.BluHorseShu said:Although they used the term 'vaccine' (a poor choice in my opinion), I didn't and I don't think most people ever thought it would prevent the virus but rather reduced the likelihood of getting it and if you did it would help mitigate the symptoms. I always thought it was supposed to be like the annual flu shot. The mandates were to reduce the spread. Obviously there was a learning curve but I think if they had not had the mandates and waited a couple of years to gather more data about viable vaccines, the death toll would have been significantly higher.dermdoc said:I do not think that is what is meant by the post.Sapper Redux said:AGC said:schmendeler said:dermdoc said:
Question, does anyone feel that at this point in time that the virus is more dangerous than the vax?
This is a joke right? 800 people died at least partly from covid just yesterday in the US. I would love to see proof of 800 covid vaccine deaths in the last year.
What do you mean partly from COVID? Are we talking 90 year olds? Obese people? Or healthy young 30 year olds with no comorbidities?
Are these the only people who count?
Obviously, when assessing risk/benefit for each individual patient due to age, underlying conditions, etc.to determine whether the vax is more dangerous than the actual disease.
Since it was proven the vax did not prevent the transmission of the virus, I would be very hesitant to advise a healthy 20-30 y/o male to get the vax even if myocarditis risks were greater with the actual infection rather than the vaccine.
Odds are that patient will never get Covid, yet if you vax him he is exposed to a probably unnecessary spike protein barrage that he might not ever have had to experience.
Plus, as I mentioned before, the article (granted a preprint) needs to stratify Covid cases from different time periods. 2020 and early 2021 Covid was a totally different animal than 2022 Covid.
