I don't know what that means. Monolithic pharmaceutical scientism? What?
lost job due to no vax
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Last: 1 yr ago by Reload8098
Hah-Hah, I understand something that you don't...
Well, actually I only think I understand that he is talking about the same thing as my earlier posted "dark humor" bit from Twitter was talking about.
Well, actually I only think I understand that he is talking about the same thing as my earlier posted "dark humor" bit from Twitter was talking about.
Not too sure I agree with this, but it did remind me of some of the fine folks on this thread.
Are you trying to turn this into a Blue lived matter thread?
For those questioning the efficacy of masks, vaccines, and distancing, a new study came out exploring why the Provincetown, MA infection event didn't become a super-spreader event.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/21/metro/new-study-reveals-why-provincetown-did-not-become-covid-superspreader/
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/21/metro/new-study-reveals-why-provincetown-did-not-become-covid-superspreader/
jrico2727 said:
Not too sure I agree with this, but it did remind me of some of the fine folks on this thread.
That is deranged.
Tried to read this but Boston Globe wouldn't let me unless I signed up using FaceBook or gave them my info starting with Email.Sapper Redux said:
For those questioning the efficacy of masks, vaccines, and distancing, a new study came out exploring why the Provincetown, MA infection event didn't become a super-spreader event.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/21/metro/new-study-reveals-why-provincetown-did-not-become-covid-superspreader/
powerbelly said:
enter URL into this site
https://12ft.io/
and it will defeat the paywall.
Thanks, that worked.powerbelly said:
enter URL into this site
https://12ft.io/
and it will defeat the paywall.
So, I thought the article was okay, but saw nothing to justify firing people that rely on their own natural antibodies.
Claims that the the vaccine improves natural immunity are disputed and, even if true, still do not justify firing people.
I would try reaching out to the law team at Kelly Shackleford's group. If not, Praying for another job that is a better environment for your own beliefs, values and rights.
Violating company policy does justify firing people.Quote:
Claims that the the vaccine improves natural immunity are disputed and, even if true, still do not justify firing people.
I'll chime in and speak for people I know who are against this covid vaccine and who're suspicious of the motivations of people who are pro covid vaccine mandates and what not. Most of these people are not so different than anyone else, they are physicians, lawyers, dentists, professionals and working class.
What they do have in common is a general distrust of government and media personalities who've been caught in lie after lie who also have financial ties and incentives to push these measures and mandates and what have you. So that mistrust is not misplaced nor is it unearned. These lies are what are dividing us, these lies are what has been killing people and these lies which are pushed by people who're not held accountable is what will destroy this country. And most of these lies were completely unnecessary; shaming people into not questioning the origins of covid, calling ivermectin a horse dewormer, saying that hydroxychloroquine( a drug that hundreds of thousands of people take all the time) was going to kill a bunch of people if they took it. These things have no business being political but should be allowed to be questioned and stand or fall on their own merits.
It is these lies that sow discord and distrust that have gotten us into this predicament, so much so that we're calling fully vaccinated people antivaxxers as if they're a bunch of little Andrew Wakefield's running around; that type of discourse is low and pathetic. With respect to their beliefs I would never shame someone who didn't want to take this vaccine nor would I gleefully celebrate the loss of their ability to provide for their families nor would I refuse to treat them as many have done in this country, I find that zeal totally disgusting and tasteless.
What they do have in common is a general distrust of government and media personalities who've been caught in lie after lie who also have financial ties and incentives to push these measures and mandates and what have you. So that mistrust is not misplaced nor is it unearned. These lies are what are dividing us, these lies are what has been killing people and these lies which are pushed by people who're not held accountable is what will destroy this country. And most of these lies were completely unnecessary; shaming people into not questioning the origins of covid, calling ivermectin a horse dewormer, saying that hydroxychloroquine( a drug that hundreds of thousands of people take all the time) was going to kill a bunch of people if they took it. These things have no business being political but should be allowed to be questioned and stand or fall on their own merits.
It is these lies that sow discord and distrust that have gotten us into this predicament, so much so that we're calling fully vaccinated people antivaxxers as if they're a bunch of little Andrew Wakefield's running around; that type of discourse is low and pathetic. With respect to their beliefs I would never shame someone who didn't want to take this vaccine nor would I gleefully celebrate the loss of their ability to provide for their families nor would I refuse to treat them as many have done in this country, I find that zeal totally disgusting and tasteless.
Gig'em
FTAggies said:
I'll chime in and speak for people I know who are against this covid vaccine and who're suspicious of the motivations of people who are pro covid vaccine mandates and what not. Most of these people are not so different than anyone else, they are physicians, lawyers, dentists, professionals and working class.
What they do have in common is a general distrust of government and media personalities who've been caught in lie after lie who also have financial ties and incentives to push these measures and mandates and what have you. So that mistrust is not misplaced nor is it unearned. These lies are what are dividing us, these lies are what has been killing people and these lies which are pushed by people who're not held accountable is what will destroy this country. And most of these lies were completely unnecessary; shaming people into not questioning the origins of covid, calling ivermectin a horse dewormer, saying that hydroxychloroquine( a drug that hundreds of thousands of people take all the time) was going to kill a bunch of people if they took it. These things have no business being political but should be allowed to be questioned and stand or fall on their own merits.
It is these lies that sow discord and distrust that have gotten us into this predicament, so much so that we're calling fully vaccinated people antivaxxers as if they're a bunch of little Andrew Wakefield's running around; that type of discourse is low and pathetic.
What these people have in common is a genetic fallacy.
Rongagin71 said:Thanks, that worked.powerbelly said:
enter URL into this site
https://12ft.io/
and it will defeat the paywall.
So, I thought the article was okay, but saw nothing to justify firing people that rely on their own natural antibodies.
Claims that the the vaccine improves natural immunity are disputed and, even if true, still do not justify firing people.
Disputed by whom? There are several published, peer reviewed studies out now that demonstrate the improvement even one shot has on natural immunity.
Quote:
These lies are what are dividing us, these lies are what has been killing people and these lies which are pushed by people who're not held accountable is what will destroy this country. And most of these lies were completely unnecessary; shaming people into not questioning the origins of covid, calling ivermectin a horse dewormer, saying that hydroxychloroquine( a drug that hundreds of thousands of people take all the time) was going to kill a bunch of people if they took it. These things have no business being political but should be allowed to be questioned and stand or fall on their own merits.
What's killing us is Covid. Everything you listed has been used as an excuse for not actually tackling the virus itself in the most effective ways: vaccines and masking and distancing when possible. Instead, it's been every and any excuse to change the story and/or try and prove the CDC or Fauci or Biden or whomever wrong. Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine have been questioned on their own merits. Doctors and scientists have investigated them. They don't work for Covid. But instead of accepting the science, it becomes yet another political inflection point for one side of the spectrum. You want to be the victim here. You aren't. The choices the anti-vaccine people have made have led us to this point.
Quote:
It is these lies that sow discord and distrust that have gotten us into this predicament, so much so that we're calling fully vaccinated people antivaxxers as if they're a bunch of little Andrew Wakefield's running around; that type of discourse is low and pathetic. With respect to their beliefs I would never shame someone who didn't want to take this vaccine nor would I gleefully celebrate the loss of their ability to provide for their families nor would I refuse to treat them as many have done in this country, I find that zeal totally disgusting and tasteless.
Dying to own the libs? Okay, I guess. That's… a strategy? And I don't really want to hear the hand-wringing from the "Trump 2020: **** your feelings" crowd. The majority of Americans are tired of Covid and see a way out that saves lives and protects people. And instead we have to deal with anti-mask, anti-vaccine, anti-community people who scream obscenities and mock those concerned about the virus, all while expressing shock and outrage that anyone would be fed up with their bull***** If you personally don't mock people concerned about Covid, great. But a lot of conservatives do. And a lot are actively out there spreading Covid further. And yes, people are fed up with it. Public health rules like vaccine mandates for employers or schools or the military are perfectly legal and Constitutional and have been used for centuries.
Ivermectin wasn't called horse dewormer until the rubes mad a run on TSC to get it.
Doctors weren't prescribing it because it wasn't demonstrated to be effective. Still hasn't.
The reason why the medical establishment was pushing back so hard on people advocating for HCQ and Ivermectin before/instead of the vaccines is because they weren't/aren't proven to be effective at preventing or treating Covid. All you have to do is read 16chan to understand why they didn't want to false belief that these were effective treatments/preventions to take hold. People that believed these were effective have effectively become bug chasers. Doing nothing to prevent infection and sometimes actively chasing an infection (looking at you Denis Prager)
There is exactly one thing that has been shown to be effective at reducing the spread of covid at an indisputable level, the $20 vaccine.
Now the $1500 Monoclonal antibodies have proven to be an effective treatment. But if the government or insurance is going to pay for the treatment, the fiscally responsible thing would be to require vaccinations as a front line defense with the monoclonal antibodies playing a supporting role.
Doctors weren't prescribing it because it wasn't demonstrated to be effective. Still hasn't.
The reason why the medical establishment was pushing back so hard on people advocating for HCQ and Ivermectin before/instead of the vaccines is because they weren't/aren't proven to be effective at preventing or treating Covid. All you have to do is read 16chan to understand why they didn't want to false belief that these were effective treatments/preventions to take hold. People that believed these were effective have effectively become bug chasers. Doing nothing to prevent infection and sometimes actively chasing an infection (looking at you Denis Prager)
There is exactly one thing that has been shown to be effective at reducing the spread of covid at an indisputable level, the $20 vaccine.
Now the $1500 Monoclonal antibodies have proven to be an effective treatment. But if the government or insurance is going to pay for the treatment, the fiscally responsible thing would be to require vaccinations as a front line defense with the monoclonal antibodies playing a supporting role.
Sapper Redux said:
For those questioning the efficacy of masks, vaccines, and distancing, a new study came out exploring why the Provincetown, MA infection event didn't become a super-spreader event.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/21/metro/new-study-reveals-why-provincetown-did-not-become-covid-superspreader/
Cool Now, please upload the one on why CFB games haven't become super spreaders.
Maybe I am missing something but I see no data in your link that show masks and/or distancing work.Sapper Redux said:
For those questioning the efficacy of masks, vaccines, and distancing, a new study came out exploring why the Provincetown, MA infection event didn't become a super-spreader event.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/21/metro/new-study-reveals-why-provincetown-did-not-become-covid-superspreader/
I agree the vaccines work.
And I have never seen a disease that divided people so based on political ideology. And both sides think the other side is crazy.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Actually in the real world, docs were prescribing a ton of both. Including for themselves and their own families.Duncan Idaho said:
Ivermectin wasn't called horse dewormer until the rubes mad a run on TSC to get it.
Doctors weren't prescribing it because it wasn't demonstrated to be effective. Still hasn't.
The reason why the medical establishment was pushing back so hard on people advocating for HCQ and Ivermectin before/instead of the vaccines is because they weren't/aren't proven to be effective at preventing or treating Covid. All you have to do is read 16chan to understand why they didn't want to false belief that these were effective treatments/preventions to take hold. People that believed these were effective have effectively become bug chasers. Doing nothing to prevent infection and sometimes actively chasing an infection (looking at you Denis Prager)
There is exactly one thing that has been shown to be effective at reducing the spread of covid at an indisputable level, the $20 vaccine.
Now the $1500 Monoclonal antibodies have proven to be an effective treatment. But if the government or insurance is going to pay for the treatment, the fiscally responsible thing would be to require vaccinations as a front line defense with the monoclonal antibodies playing a supporting role.
The "medical establishment" is very far removed from on the ground health care. Less than 20% of docs belong to the AMA. And clinical faculty at the med schools, like me, practice medicine a lot differently than the academic folks. In fact, a lot of the academic folks rarely see patients.
I agree the efficacy of both is questionable but we had nothing else until the Regeneron and vaccine like you mentioned.
And I am in favor of both.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc said:
And I am in favor of both.
Could you help me understand why?
I believe it is clear the vaccines help in reducing disease severity and death.
If I was COVID positive, the first thing I would do is Regeneron.
And sorry for any misunderstanding as I was talking about those two things and not ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine.
If I was COVID positive, the first thing I would do is Regeneron.
And sorry for any misunderstanding as I was talking about those two things and not ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc said:
I believe it is clear the vaccines help in reducing disease severity and death.
If I was COVID positive, the first thing I would do is Regeneron.
I'm sorry, I thought you meant you were in favor of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. My mistake, I was thinking about an earlier post.
Sure, some were prescribing it. But a look at 16chan would show you that most were not. There is a reason a whole cottage industry grew up around doctors that would prescribe it. I am honestly surprised one of the boner or low t subscription apps didn't expand into ivermectin.
And I will bring this up again (first time on this board) but people tend to forget that clinical care and public health are like Newtonian physics and quantum mechanics. They are both right at the scale that they deal with but at times can seem completely contrary.
A doctor prescribing HCQ or ivermectin to his family is fine from a clinical perspective. An MD publicly pushing HCQ or ivermectin is dangerous from a public health perspective. Again just look at 16chan. For more than a year, multiple posters have been swearing off the vaccine, any kind of NPI because they believe that ivermectin will protect them and is an effective treatment for covid.
Just like when people see a Doctor saying "covid is over" they don't think "ah gee, I guess that means that now that a safe and effective vaccine is out there isn't any justification for NPIs."
What they instead think "see this doctor that respects my decision to avoid getting vaccinated agrees with me that covid is a big nothing burger and I should mock anyone that still takes it seriously."
And I will bring this up again (first time on this board) but people tend to forget that clinical care and public health are like Newtonian physics and quantum mechanics. They are both right at the scale that they deal with but at times can seem completely contrary.
A doctor prescribing HCQ or ivermectin to his family is fine from a clinical perspective. An MD publicly pushing HCQ or ivermectin is dangerous from a public health perspective. Again just look at 16chan. For more than a year, multiple posters have been swearing off the vaccine, any kind of NPI because they believe that ivermectin will protect them and is an effective treatment for covid.
Just like when people see a Doctor saying "covid is over" they don't think "ah gee, I guess that means that now that a safe and effective vaccine is out there isn't any justification for NPIs."
What they instead think "see this doctor that respects my decision to avoid getting vaccinated agrees with me that covid is a big nothing burger and I should mock anyone that still takes it seriously."
Man, you really do not like me. And for the umpteenth time I never said COVID was a nothing burger, I personally do not think masks and social distancing help that much in respiratory spread viruses. So shoot me. And I thought shutting down schools was incredibly stupid. You can still take it seriously and not become hysterical and over react imho.Duncan Idaho said:
Sure, some were prescribing it. But a look at 16chan would show you that most were not. There is a reason a whole cottage industry grew up around doctors that would prescribe it. I am honestly surprised one of the boner or low t subscription apps didn't expand into ivermectin.
And I will bring this up again (first time on this board) but people tend to forget that clinical care and public health are like Newtonian physics and quantum mechanics. They are both right at the scale that they deal with but at times can seem completely contrary.
A doctor prescribing HCQ or ivermectin to his family is fine from a clinical perspective. An MD publicly pushing HCQ or ivermectin is dangerous from a public health perspective. Again just look at 16chan. For more than a year, multiple posters have been swearing off the vaccine, any kind of NPI because they believe that ivermectin will protect them and is an effective treatment for covid.
Just like when people see a Doctor saying "covid is over" they don't think "ah gee, I guess that means that now that a safe and effective vaccine is out there isn't any justification for NPIs."
What they instead think "see this doctor that respects my decision to avoid getting vaccinated agrees with me that covid is a big nothing burger and I should mock anyone that still takes it seriously."
I am 66 y/o and shut down for one week in March last year. Saw over fifty people a day and never got anything. And you know I was exposed to it. I am not going to live in fear. Will use common sense and critical thinking but no fear. Ever.
As I explained, no disease is usually ever over. I was talking about a return to normalcy.
Please forgive me for my sin.
Not my first. Believe me.
And no animosity meant and no mocking. Just my thoughts.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
And fwiw, I have no idea why my past posts get parsed so closely. There are a ton of COVID doomer posters who posted and said a lot of wrong things. But no one calls them on it. Guess I am a lightning rod.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
To be fair, you're a doctor. Your word should carry some extra weight, but that also opens you up to heavier scrutiny imho.
Dude, no doc gets their posts parsed like I do imho. For some reason, a lot of people really take what I post seriously.dargscisyhp said:
To be fair, you're a doctor. Your word should carry some extra weight, but that also opens you up to heavier scrutiny imho.
I could make an innocuous post on the COVID forum and get flagged. And I Iknow this is true.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc said:Dude, no doc gets their posts parsed like I do imho. For some reason, a lot of people really take what I post seriously.dargscisyhp said:
To be fair, you're a doctor. Your word should carry some extra weight, but that also opens you up to heavier scrutiny imho.
I could make an innocuous post on the COVID forum and get flagged. And I Iknow this is true.
I'm not active on the Covid forum, but, at least here, my thought process goes like this.
If I see some random make a statement that I think I disagree with, I continue thinking he's wrong and move on with my life. But if I see you make a medical statement, or Astro make a biology statement, or K2 make a theological statement, or any of the other illustrious posters on this board make a statement about their field of expertise that I disagree with I tend to wonder why I'm wrong. And so the natural questions become what have I missed, what error in logic am I making, what knowledge am I lacking, and I try to parse that out of (proverbial) you. That probably comes across as heavy scrutiny, but it's not intended that way.
Most of us nonexperts are going to get our knowledge on Covid from the CDC or AMA or some other major medical association. We're typically not going to be reading technical work, and instead expect those agencies to break that technical work down for us into tidbits we can understand. So that's where our understanding comes from. With all due respect, from what I've seen, you tend to challenge some of those associations more than the other doctors (at least the ones that post here). So the process described in the previous paragraph starts.
It's really not a sign of disrespect, at least no from me, but rather a sign of respect and acceptance of your superior knowledge. I'm wanting to reconcile, or understand why to replace, what I know with what you do. Or at the very least understand why you think what you do.
I believe you. But it goes way deeper than that back to my posting on forum 16.
And I agree it is not disrespect.
And I agree it is not disrespect.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Well, okay, that convinced me. I now believe it is proper and desirable to fire people for believing that natural immunity is enough, even if they are working at home or are part of a shortage occupation.dargscisyhp said:FTAggies said:
I'll chime in and speak for people I know who are against this covid vaccine and who're suspicious of the motivations of people who are pro covid vaccine mandates and what not. Most of these people are not so different than anyone else, they are physicians, lawyers, dentists, professionals and working class.
What they do have in common is a general distrust of government and media personalities who've been caught in lie after lie who also have financial ties and incentives to push these measures and mandates and what have you. So that mistrust is not misplaced nor is it unearned. These lies are what are dividing us, these lies are what has been killing people and these lies which are pushed by people who're not held accountable is what will destroy this country. And most of these lies were completely unnecessary; shaming people into not questioning the origins of covid, calling ivermectin a horse dewormer, saying that hydroxychloroquine( a drug that hundreds of thousands of people take all the time) was going to kill a bunch of people if they took it. These things have no business being political but should be allowed to be questioned and stand or fall on their own merits.
It is these lies that sow discord and distrust that have gotten us into this predicament, so much so that we're calling fully vaccinated people antivaxxers as if they're a bunch of little Andrew Wakefield's running around; that type of discourse is low and pathetic.
What these people have in common is a genetic fallacy.
I give up on the genetically stupid idea that people should be free to make their own decisions - because the government/corporations/science/Democrats say that freedom is wrong and who am I to argue?
Why, I even now think that A&M should be fined for allowing that crowd of 106,000 unmasked fans to congregate at the Alabama upset. I will shortly send a complaint to A&M and demand that only vaccinated fans be allowed into future games.
Rongagin71 said:Well, okay, that convinced me. I now believe it is proper and desirable to fire people for believing that natural immunity is enough, even if they are working at home or are part of a shortage occupation.dargscisyhp said:FTAggies said:
I'll chime in and speak for people I know who are against this covid vaccine and who're suspicious of the motivations of people who are pro covid vaccine mandates and what not. Most of these people are not so different than anyone else, they are physicians, lawyers, dentists, professionals and working class.
What they do have in common is a general distrust of government and media personalities who've been caught in lie after lie who also have financial ties and incentives to push these measures and mandates and what have you. So that mistrust is not misplaced nor is it unearned. These lies are what are dividing us, these lies are what has been killing people and these lies which are pushed by people who're not held accountable is what will destroy this country. And most of these lies were completely unnecessary; shaming people into not questioning the origins of covid, calling ivermectin a horse dewormer, saying that hydroxychloroquine( a drug that hundreds of thousands of people take all the time) was going to kill a bunch of people if they took it. These things have no business being political but should be allowed to be questioned and stand or fall on their own merits.
It is these lies that sow discord and distrust that have gotten us into this predicament, so much so that we're calling fully vaccinated people antivaxxers as if they're a bunch of little Andrew Wakefield's running around; that type of discourse is low and pathetic.
What these people have in common is a genetic fallacy.
I give up on the genetically stupid idea that people should be free to make their own decisions - because the government/corporations/science/Democrats say that freedom is wrong and who am I to argue?
Why, I even now think that A&M should be fined for allowing that crowd of 106,000 unmasked fans to congregate at the Alabama upset. I will shortly send a complaint to A&M and demand that only vaccinated fans be allowed into future games.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm saying what the poster described above is a genetic fallacy.
Its Texas Aggies, dammit
Joined:
Nov 27, 2006
Posts:
1,193
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I never expected this would start a 10-page thread.
Sorry, you convinced me.
Don't try to take it back,
I'm so easily confused, just stop!
Don't try to take it back,
I'm so easily confused, just stop!
Rongagin71 said:
Sorry, you convinced me.
Don't try to take it back,
I'm so easily confused, just stop!
Okay, stay convinced, I win.
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