lost job due to no vax

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Sapper Redux
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In reply to RAB91 • 2:50p, 10/21/21
RAB91 said:
Duncan Idaho said:
Most companies didn't require vaccinations in the past because we had herd immunity for the diseases that would impact their workforce due to how comprehensively we address childhood vaccinations.

The only thing unique about this vaccine is that the disease impacts adults enough that it makes fiscal sense for companies to require it.

If polio (a pathogen far less deadly than SARS-CoV-2) popped up on the scene today every company with any kind of Health and safety program or risk management program would require the vaccine.


When they ignore the part of the population (at least 1/3) that already has natural immunity, it isn't fiscal reasons driving these mandates.


How many studies have to be posted showing that immunity is dramatically improved if you get the vaccine? Even if you've had an infection previously.
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FTACo88-FDT24dad
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In reply to PacifistAg • 2:51p, 10/21/21
AG
PacifistAg said:
FTACo88-FDT24dad said:
PacifistAg said:
Azeotroper said:
Ok how about "we will let you work here if you inject this in your body to protect you from dying from a pathogen with a 99.5% survivability." I'm glad my career choice was self employment. We just shrug our shoulders and say "whatever".
Private businesses have the right to set their policies as they see fit. You aren't entitled to work for them. If you cannot meet their terms of employment, you can find employment elsewhere. Stop acting entitled.

Kudos for you being self-employed. As a result, you can set your policies at your business as you see fit. Why would you deny other private businesses the same right?


They can't impose policies that violate your legally recognized civil rights.

This is nonsense.

Quote:
civil rights

/sivil rts/

Learn to pronounce

noun

the rights of citizens to political and social freedom and equality.

For example, companies can fire you for exercising your "political freedom" of speech if you tweet comments derogatory of your company. You don't have freedom of speech at your job. At my company, if you repeatedly purposely misgender a trans coworker, you can be fired. They'd have every legal right to do so.

The NFL could enact a policy prohibiting players from exercising their political freedoms on the clock, and they'd have every right to do so.


I will simply say you have no idea what you are talking about.

https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-vii-civil-rights-act-1964
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RAB91
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In reply to Duncan Idaho • 3:04p, 10/21/21
Duncan Idaho said:
Which is the easiest/cheapest path to getting reasonable assurance that you have compliance with a corporate vaccination mandate
1)everyone upload the same vaccine card
Or
2)having people upload a nonstandardized collection of medical records that people use to validate recovery from an infection that results in a documented antibody response.

Got it... because it takes our useless HR departments more effort we should just make that 1/3 of our population (or you choose the %) get a vaccine they don't need.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Aggrad08 • 3:25p, 10/21/21
AG
Aggrad08 said:
dermdoc said:
Aggrad08 said:
AGC said:



The decisions being made are about more than science; we're re-ordering society right now and these are far beyond the scope of a 'scientist' no matter how grounded his knowledge base is. Your arrogance in the face of that scope strays into hubris.
No we aren't. in fact this wouldn't be any different than the damn flu shot if people weren't trying to weaponize stupidity.

"Stupidity" That Will change a lot of minds. But changing minds was never the goal here from reading posts. It is to prove how smart one is and how dumb someone is who does not agree with the. Interesting strategy.

Sorry now I will leave.

You folks carry on.


I'm not really trying to change minds as these people haven't demonstrated any evidence that their minds can be changed. If someone had genuine curiosity and ignorance needed corrected that different. It's a discussion forum, I'm simply stating what I see. And I hardly think calling anti vax stupid is crossing a line. Never was before.

And how often do I hear you poopooing the politics board for the libtard talk? It seems it's only when it's your side we need to be gentle with our language.
This is not the politics forum and I expect a higher level of discourse. I can not remember the last time I posted on F16 but maybe I am getting senile. Do you really want this forum to become F16? Just a liberal version?

And I am trying to figure out why this thread is still up on this forum.

See little connection with religion or philosophy.
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Rongagin71
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3:38p, 10/21/21
AG
If anyone wants to try F16, look at "How OSHA has moved the Goalposts in 5 Months".
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Sb1540
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3:48p, 10/21/21
Same posters defending employers mandating vaccines while the federal government is shoving everything they can down the their throats through massive OSHA fines. Week after week your position degrades.
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Sb1540
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In reply to dermdoc • 3:49p, 10/21/21
dermdoc said:
Aggrad08 said:
dermdoc said:
Aggrad08 said:
AGC said:



The decisions being made are about more than science; we're re-ordering society right now and these are far beyond the scope of a 'scientist' no matter how grounded his knowledge base is. Your arrogance in the face of that scope strays into hubris.
No we aren't. in fact this wouldn't be any different than the damn flu shot if people weren't trying to weaponize stupidity.

"Stupidity" That Will change a lot of minds. But changing minds was never the goal here from reading posts. It is to prove how smart one is and how dumb someone is who does not agree with the. Interesting strategy.

Sorry now I will leave.

You folks carry on.


I'm not really trying to change minds as these people haven't demonstrated any evidence that their minds can be changed. If someone had genuine curiosity and ignorance needed corrected that different. It's a discussion forum, I'm simply stating what I see. And I hardly think calling anti vax stupid is crossing a line. Never was before.

And how often do I hear you poopooing the politics board for the libtard talk? It seems it's only when it's your side we need to be gentle with our language.
This is not the politics forum and I expect a higher level of discourse. I can not remember the last time I posted on F16 but maybe I am getting senile. Do you really want this forum to become F16? Just a liberal version?

And I am trying to figure out why this thread is still up on this forum.

See little connection with religion or philosophy.
There's probably a place for it since it's engulfing all of reality right now.
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dermdoc
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3:50p, 10/21/21
AG
Whatever.

This is supposed to be the religion and philosophy forum. Not a politics forum.
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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 3:57p, 10/21/21
dermdoc said:
This is not the politics forum and I expect a higher level of discourse.
It is the science board. The majority of one side of the vaccine debate is incapable of high level discourse, because they're not scientifically literate.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Aggrad08 • 3:57p, 10/21/21
AG
Aggrad08 said:
dermdoc said:
Aggrad08 said:
AGC said:



The decisions being made are about more than science; we're re-ordering society right now and these are far beyond the scope of a 'scientist' no matter how grounded his knowledge base is. Your arrogance in the face of that scope strays into hubris.
No we aren't. in fact this wouldn't be any different than the damn flu shot if people weren't trying to weaponize stupidity.

"Stupidity" That Will change a lot of minds. But changing minds was never the goal here from reading posts. It is to prove how smart one is and how dumb someone is who does not agree with the. Interesting strategy.

Sorry now I will leave.

You folks carry on.


I'm not really trying to change minds as these people haven't demonstrated any evidence that their minds can be changed. If someone had genuine curiosity and ignorance needed corrected that different. It's a discussion forum, I'm simply stating what I see. And I hardly think calling anti vax stupid is crossing a line. Never was before.

And how often do I hear you poopooing the politics board for the libtard talk? It seems it's only when it's your side we need to be gentle with our language.
And may I ask what your purpose(s) is(are) if it is not to change minds?
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dermdoc
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In reply to Dilettante • 4:03p, 10/21/21
AG
Dilettante said:
dermdoc said:
This is not the politics forum and I expect a higher level of discourse.
It is the science board. The majority of one side of the vaccine debate is incapable of high level discussions, because they're not scientifically literate.
Or possibly because if you actually took it to the politics forum(where it should be imho) you would get blasted?

And with all due respect, not everybody who disagrees with you is a moron. I know you are smart. That does not mean everyone else is dumb.

And there is a corona forum for stuff like this also. But over there almost everyone would agree with you so how could you look smart and denigrate other posters?

What fun is that?
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Woodward2206
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In reply to RAB91 • 4:39p, 10/21/21
RAB91 said:
PacifistAg said:
RAB91 said:
Woodward said:
This thread is fun.

My mom lives in CS and was adamantly against getting the vaccine.

After I had a baby I informed her that without a vaccine she would not be allowed to hold the baby.

Her protest lasted all of 2 hours after she found that out.
And this is a perfect definition of a BC. This board gives F84 a run for their money. Sad really.

Fyi, grandparents aren't entitled to hold their grandchildren. Parents can set boundaries, and grandparents can respect them or deal with the consequences.

If they believe such a boundary will help keep their newborn safe, or their mother, then that's their prerogative. Stop acting like an entitled child.

Drama queen much?

And thankfully none of my family has gone full vaxhole yet. I've been able to hold all the newborns in the family the last 18 months, and they all survived.

What if I told you I did this primarily for my mom's benefit?
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Rongagin71 • 4:41p, 10/21/21
Rongagin71 said:
If anyone wants to try F16, look at "How OSHA has moved the Goalposts in 5 Months".


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dermdoc
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4:49p, 10/21/21
AG
Is that okay on here because it is "science" also?
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PacifistAg
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In reply to FTACo88-FDT24dad • 4:52p, 10/21/21
AG
FTACo88-FDT24dad said:
PacifistAg said:
FTACo88-FDT24dad said:
PacifistAg said:
Azeotroper said:
Ok how about "we will let you work here if you inject this in your body to protect you from dying from a pathogen with a 99.5% survivability." I'm glad my career choice was self employment. We just shrug our shoulders and say "whatever".
Private businesses have the right to set their policies as they see fit. You aren't entitled to work for them. If you cannot meet their terms of employment, you can find employment elsewhere. Stop acting entitled.

Kudos for you being self-employed. As a result, you can set your policies at your business as you see fit. Why would you deny other private businesses the same right?


They can't impose policies that violate your legally recognized civil rights.

This is nonsense.

Quote:
civil rights

/sivil rts/

Learn to pronounce

noun

the rights of citizens to political and social freedom and equality.

For example, companies can fire you for exercising your "political freedom" of speech if you tweet comments derogatory of your company. You don't have freedom of speech at your job. At my company, if you repeatedly purposely misgender a trans coworker, you can be fired. They'd have every legal right to do so.

The NFL could enact a policy prohibiting players from exercising their political freedoms on the clock, and they'd have every right to do so.


I will simply say you have no idea what you are talking about.

https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-vii-civil-rights-act-1964
Really depends on how you are defining "civil rights". If your definition of "civil rights" is to simply regurgitate the Civil Rights Act of 1964, then yes the actions of a private employer are much more restricted. But if you use the dictionary definition of "civil rights", then a private employer absolutely can impose a policy that restricts your "political and social freedom" in the workplace.
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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 4:57p, 10/21/21
I didn't say everyone who disagrees with me is a moron, or that I'm smart. I said anti-vaxxers are mostly morons. That's a claim I'm willing to defend.

The benefit of having coronavirus threads here is that the people who post here often get to talk about it. The smaller the community of a forum, the better the discussion.
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Zobel
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In reply to Sb1540 • 5:05p, 10/21/21
AG
Being outraged about OSHA and vaccines is hollow if you weren't angry a long time ago about the general duty clause. This is a legislative failure, and a big one.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Dilettante • 5:25p, 10/21/21
AG
Dilettante said:
I didn't say everyone who disagrees with me is a moron, or that I'm smart. I said anti-vaxxers are mostly morons. That's a claim I'm willing to defend.

The benefit of having coronavirus threads here is that the people who post here often get to talk about it. The smaller the community of a forum, the better the discussion.


No I said you were smart. And I think you are.

And you and I would get along together in real life I would wager.

I disagree with this being the right forum and honestly believe this is becoming a "safe haven" for certain political beliefs. And I think it goes beyond "science".

Just like talking religion. Which is why I come here.

Need to ignore threads like this I guess

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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 6:07p, 10/21/21
We probably would get along. The phrase "moral failing" earlier was not hateful. I suspect you are a good person, and I also meant everything I said. The two aren't exclusive. Without exception, good people do bad things or have bad attributes.

The effect a vaccine has on a person's health is not an opinion. You treating it like opinion is a bad thing, and I think you have a responsibility to do a better job. You know that most of the people who make negative claims about the vaccine don't understand their sources or the system they're arguing about. Please correct me if you think catag, Dad-o-lot, Rongagin, etc. are doing a good job of learning about the situation. They are not, and their analysis has no value. That's not malicious, it's the truth. I like several posters on this board who post dumb things about coronavirus. It doesn't matter. If people you like say nonsense, don't pretend it's some kind of legitimate opinion.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Dilettante • 6:22p, 10/21/21
AG
Dilettante said:
We probably would get along. The phrase "moral failing" earlier was not hateful. I suspect you are a good person, and I also meant everything I said. The two aren't exclusive. Without exception, good people do bad things or have bad attributes.

The effect a vaccine has on a person's health is not an opinion. You treating it like opinion is a bad thing, and I think you have a responsibility to do a better job. You know that most of the people who make negative claims about the vaccine don't understand their sources or the system they're arguing about. Please correct me if you think catag, Dad-o-lot, Rongagin, etc. are doing a good job of learning about the situation. They are not, and their analysis has no value. That's not malicious, it's the truth. I like several posters on this board who post dumb things about coronavirus. It doesn't matter. If people you like say nonsense, don't pretend it's some kind of legitimate opinion.


With all due respect, you do not define what my responsibility is to do anything.

Arrogance defined/

Done.
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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 6:52p, 10/21/21
Try and stop me. What's a responsibility but an expectation? I expect better from you. I won't beat a dead horse further. You are free to ignore that expectation or continue not to meet it.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Dilettante • 7:28p, 10/21/21
AG
Dilettante said:
Try and stop me. What's a responsibility but an expectation? I expect better from you. I won't beat a dead horse further. You are free to ignore that expectation or continue not to meet it.


What does that mean? What am I trying to stop you from?

Why do I have to meet your expectations? You must have a very high regard for me.

I am starting to think this is a troll from the past.

The continued obsession is creepy.
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Aggrad08
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In reply to dermdoc • 7:56p, 10/21/21
AG
dermdoc said:
Whatever.

This is supposed to be the religion and philosophy forum. Not a politics forum.


This was actually the point of my post. Why the hell is a discussion about a vaccine on the politics board? Why is that red vs blue anymore than flu shots, childhood vaccines, or taking statins because red meat is delicious?

This is and should be largely a scientific question with a side of politics with regard to certain policy .
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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 7:56p, 10/21/21
dermdoc said:
What does that mean? What am I trying to stop you from?
Claiming doctors have certain responsibilities.
Quote:
Why do I have to meet your expectations? You must have a very high regard for me.
Dilettante said:
You are free to ignore that expectation.
As for the high regard thing, yeah, you generally seem like a reasonable guy.
Quote:
I am starting to think this is a troll from the past.
I used to post as AstroAg17, so this part is actually correct.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Dilettante • 8:04p, 10/21/21
AG
Dilettante said:
dermdoc said:
What does that mean? What am I trying to stop you from?
Claiming doctors have certain responsibilities.
Quote:
Why do I have to meet your expectations? You must have a very high regard for me.
Dilettante said:
You are free to ignore that expectation.
As for the high regard thing, yeah, you generally seem like a reasonable guy.
Quote:
I am starting to think this is a troll from the past.
I used to post as AstroAg17, so this part is actually correct.


Aren't you the guy who said that if Christians really thought hell was real then it was up to us to non stop try to save people like you?



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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 8:05p, 10/21/21
Maybe? Sounds like something I'd say. I probably would leave out the phrases "non-stop" and "people like me".
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dermdoc
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In reply to Dilettante • 8:07p, 10/21/21
AG
So you hold other people up to incredible standards? And then criticize them when they do not meet what you think they should be or do?

Classic.
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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 8:30p, 10/21/21
Neither of the standards in question seem incredible to me. The first is that doctors should be clear that whether the vaccine works isn't an opinion. The second is unrelated to the thread.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Dilettante • 8:39p, 10/21/21
AG
Dilettante said:
Neither of the standards in question seem incredible to me. The first is that doctors should be clear that whether the vaccine works isn't an opinion. The second is unrelated to the thread.


Where did I say the vaccine did not work?

My goodness.
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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 8:42p, 10/21/21
You're reading a lot of things that I'm not writing.
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Rongagin71
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In reply to Dilettante • 8:42p, 10/21/21
AG
Dilettante said:
Neither of the standards in question seem incredible to me. The first is that doctors should be clear that whether the vaccine works isn't an opinion. The second is unrelated to the thread.
How well vaccines work seems to be both science and opinion...
the Twitter "dark humor" bit needs to be seen to be believed, and will play.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/friday-dark-humor-vaccine-efficacy-science-explained
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dermdoc
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In reply to Dilettante • 9:02p, 10/21/21
AG
Dilettante said:
You're reading a lot of things that I'm not writing.


So what docs are saying the vaccine does not work?

And how many other docs are in this thread?
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Dilettante
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In reply to dermdoc • 9:05p, 10/21/21
You should reread what I wrote.
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Livewire82
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In reply to PacifistAg • 10:58p, 10/21/21
So, by this principle, you must then be opposed to state/city authorities mandating businesses to require proof of a medical procedure yes?
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Livewire82
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In reply to Dilettante • 11:12p, 10/21/21
Another issue though is people conflating scientific literacy with monolithic pharmaceutical scientism. That's equally as unscientific
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