https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/republican-governor-jim-justice-unvaccinated-people/index.html

This has to be an incredibly frustrating time to be a leader of an area and genuinely care about how many people have and will die from Covid in that area. And know that there are people that just won't listen to reason and pretend like it isn't even happening.

"Government requires people to take safe and effective medicine at no cost to them" is certainly a bizarre beginning to tyranny.

The slippery slope crowds has a tough time explaining why this is some pivotal moment when much larger, more intrusive, and more harmful policies have been enacted by our government for decades to centuries.

The fact that there's so much focus on this given everything else we do is just flabbergasting.

craigernaught said:

---

"Government requires people to take safe and effective medicine at no cost to them" is certainly a bizarre beginning to tyranny.

The slippery slope crowds has a tough time explaining why this is some pivotal moment when much larger, more intrusive, and more harmful policies have been enacted by our government for decades to centuries.

The fact that there's so much focus on this given everything else we do is just flabbergasting.

---

Get the vax or be cast out of society. I don't know man it sounds pretty harmful but then again this is coming from the group that believes murdering millions of innocent human lives is the right thing to do. You people are insane.

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

Orthodox Texan said:

---

schmendeler said:

---

The children have been humored long enough. The adults are tired of asking nicely.

---

Sounds like a threat from a spineless punk. What are you going to do about it? I've said this many times before, you have no idea what's coming. Keep pushing the real adults and see what happens.

---

What's going to happen, champ? You going to post more on a message board?

Orthodox Texan said:

---

What's up frens? Are we having fun yet??

---

Fun? No. I'd rather we be past this, but there's a significant amount who don't trust vaccines, but do trust house de-wormer, so this continues.

I oppose the new OSHA rule, but it's not really a vaccine mandate. If you don't want to get the vaccine, you'll just need to get tested weekly. And that's only in companies of 100 or more.

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Melodrama is what he does.

Orthodox Texan said:

---

schmendeler said:

---

The children have been humored long enough. The adults are tired of asking nicely.

---

Sounds like a threat from a spineless punk. What are you going to do about it? I've said this many times before, you have no idea what's coming. Keep pushing the real adults and see what happens.

---

We got a badass over here. "Real adults" don't threaten violence to avoid getting a vaccine.

And don't hide behind "where did I threaten anyone". It's clear as day that's what you're doing. They are empty threats, because let's be honest, all you're going to do is rant on social media, but the implications behind your comment is clear.

For all the screeching over this new workplace health and safety rule, and declarations of tyranny, a couple things:

1) where was your outrage with the thousands of various health and safety workplace rules placed on private businesses since OSHA was created under Republican Richard Nixon? This is really no different, aside from the fact that this has been politicized.

Sorry, you don't get to turn a blind eye to rules imposed on the private sector, then expect to be taken seriously when there's a rule you don't like. The problem is that OSHA exists in the first place, but you've had no issue with that for 50 years.

2) for those who want government to impose rules on society "for our own good", or to emulate the Taliban, you can't expect to be taken seriously when you want "tyranny" but are just mad now that it's the wrong flavor of "tyranny".

I oppose these rules, not only as an anarchist, but also an HR professional. I also can't stress just how much of a negative impact COVID continues to have on businesses, and hate the fact that most unvaccinated are unvaccinated because they'd rather just stand in the corner and stomp their feet. So, you want a government to have power to enforce rules "for the good of self and others" (see drug prohibition, for one)? Then you better be prepared when those controlling the government have differing views of what rules to put in place. This is what you voted for and empowered. You can't have it both ways.

PacifistAg said:

---

For all the screeching over this new workplace health and safety rule, and declarations of tyranny, a couple things:

1) where was your outrage with the thousands of various health and safety workplace rules placed on private businesses since OSHA was created under Republican Richard Nixon? This is really no different, aside from the fact that this has been politicized.

Sorry, you don't get to turn a blind eye to rules imposed on the private sector, then expect to be taken seriously when there's a rule you don't like. The problem is that OSHA exists in the first place, but you've had no issue with that for 50 years.

2) for those who want government to impose rules on society "for our own good", or to emulate the Taliban, you can't expect to be taken seriously when you want "tyranny" but are just mad now that it's the wrong flavor of "tyranny".

I oppose these rules, not only as an anarchist, but also an HR professional. I also can't stress just how much of a negative impact COVID continues to have on businesses, and hate the fact that most unvaccinated are unvaccinated because they'd rather just stand in the corner and stomp their feet. So, you want a government to have power to enforce rules "for the good of self and others" (see drug prohibition, for one)? Then you better be prepared when those controlling the government have differing views of what rules to put in place. This is what you voted for and empowered. You can't have it both ways.

---

Are you really equating, "You must have a lock out / tag out process for electrical maintenance" with "you must ensure every one of your employees has received this brand new leaky vaccine for an illness that has a greater than 99% survival rate"? Our eating habits have a greater impact on our health than this vaccine. If OSHA can mandate a vaccine, can they mandate that you don't have sugary drinks in company vending machines?

You say you "oppose these rules", then lambast people who apparently have now "seen the light" and think maybe you were right all along? So is this an issue of "I was against OSHA before it was cool to be against OSHA?

You also are wrong about "the fact that most unvaccinated are unvaccinated because they'd rather just stand in the corner and stomp their feet". Because you apparently do not understand opposition to this vaccine, you just attribute it to stubbornness.

The 1918 flu had a 96% survival rate and Philadelphia was reduced to using wagons to haul the dead out of homes. This "99% survival rate" is disingenuous bs that ignores the human cost of allowing some people to continue to spread a deadly pathogen to others. Your food choices aren't potentially killing or permanently disabling others.

Quote:

---

If OSHA can mandate a vaccine, can they mandate that you don't have sugary drinks in company vending machines?

---

If the federal government believes it is a workplace health and safety issue, then yes. Y'all are the ones who empower them every 2-4 years. But a more accurate comparison would be if there was a measles epidemic, could OSHA mandate vaccines or testing in large workplaces? The answer is yes. Again, y'all are the ones who support this beast. Don't complain when it bites you. Don't be the frog giving a scorpion a ride across the pond.

Quote:

---

You say you "oppose these rules", then lambast people who apparently have now "seen the light" and think maybe you were right all along? So is this an issue of "I was against OSHA before it was cool to be against OSHA?

---

"Lambast"? Yes, I'm critical of those who refuse to get the vaccine, if they can, because it's illogical. That has nothing to do with these rules. I'd be critical without these rules. Nobody here has "seen the light" on OSHA. They're just mad at OSHA right now, but have zero issue with the thousands of other rules they've placed on private businesses for 50 years. If it's about "freedom", then be consistent. But they aren't.

Quote:

---

You also are wrong about "the fact that most unvaccinated are unvaccinated because they'd rather just stand in the corner and stomp their feet". Because you apparently do not understand opposition to this vaccine, you just attribute it to stubbornness.

---

No, I understand the opposition to it. We've seen that debated here, and all the junk "science" shared by crazy uncles on Facebook.

I wish the government didn't believe this rule was necessary. I wish that people who could would get vaccinated. But many aren't, which only gives intrusive government the ability to step in with rules like this. Do I like it? No. But do I like that millions of Americans are illogical refusing to get a vaccine, this prolonging this nightmare? No.

Quote:

---

Are you really equating, "You must have a lock out / tag out process for electrical maintenance" with "you must ensure every one of your employees has received this brand new leaky vaccine for an illness that has a greater than 99% survival rate"?

---

Btw, you prove my point with this comment. You seem to be fine with government imposing rules, and financial burdens, on private businesses because you don't see a problem with the rule. You seem to not mind burdening private business when it's a rule you don't find objectionable.

The problem is that in doing so, you empower them to impose rules you may not like. So, this is what you get. This is the system you vote for.

And this one would have been entirely avoidable had people just gotten vaccinated. But when you ask the government to be your nanny in one area of life, you can't be surprised when that spreads to other areas. Many of the same people hyperventilating over this new rule also have zero objection to throwing people in a cage because they possess a plant. So you can't tell me it's about freedom.

Sapper Redux said:

---

The 1918 flu had a 96% survival rate and Philadelphia was reduced to using wagons to haul the dead out of homes. This "99% survival rate" is disingenuous bs that ignores the human cost of allowing some people to continue to spread a deadly pathogen to others. Your food choices aren't potentially killing or permanently disabling others.

---

The vaccine hasn't been shown to prevent spread. That is one of the issues. This vaccine apparently only reduces symptoms so being unvaccinated doesn't make you more likely to catch and spread, it only means if you do catch it, the symptoms are likely to be worse.

The CDC even changed their definition of a vaccine from "provides immunity" to "provides protection".

My not being vaccinated does not have any effect on anyone other than me. No matter how often the lie of "protecting others" by being vaccinated is told, it is still a lie.

This vaccine mandate is not at all about health and safety, but 100% about control and precedent.

Do you not also realize that a 96% survival rate versus a 99% survival rate is actually a 300% increase in death rate? from 1% fatal to 4% fatal. No, it is not "the same", and noting the survival rate is not "disingenuous".

PacifistAg said:

---

Quote:

---

Are you really equating, "You must have a lock out / tag out process for electrical maintenance" with "you must ensure every one of your employees has received this brand new leaky vaccine for an illness that has a greater than 99% survival rate"?

---

Btw, you prove my point with this comment. You seem to be fine with government imposing rules, and financial burdens, on private businesses because you don't see a problem with the rule. You seem to not mind burdening private business when it's a rule you don't find objectionable.

The problem is that in doing so, you empower them to impose rules you may not like. So, this is what you get. This is the system you vote for.

And this one would have been entirely avoidable had people just gotten vaccinated. But when you ask the government to be your nanny in one area of life, you can't be surprised when that spreads to other areas. Many of the same people hyperventilating over this new rule also have zero objection to throwing people in a cage because they possess a plant. So you can't tell me it's about freedom.

---

Where do you get the idea that I have zero objection to "throwing people in a cage because they possess a plant.". You are making a lot of assumptions about me that are false.

For someone who purports to be a "pacifist" you sure aren't very good at searching for common ground.

Dad-O-Lot said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

Quote:

---

Are you really equating, "You must have a lock out / tag out process for electrical maintenance" with "you must ensure every one of your employees has received this brand new leaky vaccine for an illness that has a greater than 99% survival rate"?

---

Btw, you prove my point with this comment. You seem to be fine with government imposing rules, and financial burdens, on private businesses because you don't see a problem with the rule. You seem to not mind burdening private business when it's a rule you don't find objectionable.

The problem is that in doing so, you empower them to impose rules you may not like. So, this is what you get. This is the system you vote for.

And this one would have been entirely avoidable had people just gotten vaccinated. But when you ask the government to be your nanny in one area of life, you can't be surprised when that spreads to other areas. Many of the same people hyperventilating over this new rule also have zero objection to throwing people in a cage because they possess a plant. So you can't tell me it's about freedom.

---

Where do you get the idea that I have zero objection to "throwing people in a cage because they possess a plant.". You are making a lot of assumptions about me that are false.

For someone who purports to be a "pacifist" you sure aren't very good at searching for common ground.

---

I didn't say you had zero objection I that. My exact comment is bolded above. I said "many of the same people". I don't know your individual view on it, but I know many who my statement does apply to. Perhaps reading more carefully will help prevent you from making silly charges about my views on nonviolence in the future.

And you clearly don't understand what pacifism is if you think my statement was in any way counter to it.

Quote:

---

For someone who purports to be a "pacifist" you sure aren't very good at searching for common ground.

---

Aside from the gross misunderstanding of what pacifism is, or the passive-aggressive "who purports to be" aspect of the comment, I did want to address the rest.

I believe my position is a middle ground. I'm opposed to government mandates. I believe people who can, should get the vaccine. That said, if they wish not to, that's on them. Private businesses, however, should absolutely be free to set their policy on this as they wish. If a private business wants to mandate vaccines for their employees, that's their right. The employee can exercise their right to refuse, but that private business can exercise their right to terminate their employment.

So, I'm not sure what more "middle ground" you're looking for. My position respects the rights of all people. Do I think it's stupid to not get the vaccine if you can, yes. But I believe people have the right to do stupid things.

Dad-O-Lot said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

The 1918 flu had a 96% survival rate and Philadelphia was reduced to using wagons to haul the dead out of homes. This "99% survival rate" is disingenuous bs that ignores the human cost of allowing some people to continue to spread a deadly pathogen to others. Your food choices aren't potentially killing or permanently disabling others.

---

The vaccine hasn't been shown to prevent spread. That is one of the issues. This vaccine apparently only reduces symptoms so being unvaccinated doesn't make you more likely to catch and spread, it only means if you do catch it, the symptoms are likely to be worse.

The CDC even changed their definition of a vaccine from "provides immunity" to "provides protection".

My not being vaccinated does not have any effect on anyone other than me. No matter how often the lie of "protecting others" by being vaccinated is told, it is still a lie.

This vaccine mandate is not at all about health and safety, but 100% about control and precedent.

Do you not also realize that a 96% survival rate versus a 99% survival rate is actually a 300% increase in death rate? from 1% fatal to 4% fatal. No, it is not "the same", and noting the survival rate is not "disingenuous".

---

This is a complete misreading of the data. Surveys done in Britain and the US show reduced effectiveness of the vaccines in preventing spread with Delta, but it's still far superior to being unvaccinated. And yes, you being unvaccinated ABSOLUTELY impacts those you come in contact with. Delta is as transmissible as chickenpox, so being selfish means spreading it to more people and potentially harming far more people. 650,000 people have died in the US at a minimum from this virus. And you want to pretend that's nothing.

Quote:

---

The vaccine hasn't been shown to prevent spread. That is one of the issues. This vaccine apparently only reduces symptoms so being unvaccinated doesn't make you more likely to catch and spread, it only means if you do catch it, the symptoms are likely to be worse.

---

This is factually incorrect.

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Please learn to read. Did I say the vaccine was harmful? You guys are the worst posters on this site.

Zobel said:

---

---

Lame

Orthodox Texan said:

---

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Please learn to read. Did I say the vaccine was harmful? You guys are the worst posters on this site.

---

Coming from the guy who said this?

Quote:

---

I don't know man it sounds pretty harmful but then again this is coming from the group that believes murdering millions of innocent human lives is the right thing to do.

---

I mean, I'm sure there are some pro-choice people here, but there are many pro-life people who are pro-vaxx. Heck, many of us are pro-vaxx BECAUSE we're pro-life.

PacifistAg said:

---

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Melodrama is what he does.

---

As the President threatens millions of Americans with his speech last night. Nothing to see here. I'm sure this will go smoothly. Love some of the posters on here. It's always comedy.

Orthodox Texan said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Melodrama is what he does.

---

As the President threatens millions of Americans with his speech last night. Nothing to see here. I'm sure this will go smoothly. Love some of the posters on here. It's always comedy.

---

Government is violence. You vote for this. You just want the threats coming from other politicians.

Like I said previously, this isn't even really a vaccine mandate. It's a workplace health/safety rule (which I've never heard you complain about any of the other thousands of onerous rules placed by OSHA for the last 50 years), that says employees of certain companies need to either get vaccinated or be tested weekly. Employees still have the choice, and there's no logical exemption for testing.

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Please learn to read. Did I say the vaccine was harmful? You guys are the worst posters on this site.

---

Coming from the guy who said this?

Quote:

---

I don't know man it sounds pretty harmful but then again this is coming from the group that believes murdering millions of innocent human lives is the right thing to do.

---

I mean, I'm sure there are some pro-choice people here, but there are many pro-life people who are pro-vaxx. Heck, many of us are pro-vaxx BECAUSE we're pro-life.

---

Awesome that's your choice to protect yourself and it's great that you have the freedom to choose that.

Sapper Redux said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

schmendeler said:

---

The children have been humored long enough. The adults are tired of asking nicely.

---

Sounds like a threat from a spineless punk. What are you going to do about it? I've said this many times before, you have no idea what's coming. Keep pushing the real adults and see what happens.

---

What's going to happen, champ? You going to post more on a message board?

---

Says the internet tough guy who made the first threat like a coward little punk. The crowd that you come from is so so lame and weak. You're definitely a simp.

Orthodox Texan said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Please learn to read. Did I say the vaccine was harmful? You guys are the worst posters on this site.

---

Coming from the guy who said this?

Quote:

---

I don't know man it sounds pretty harmful but then again this is coming from the group that believes murdering millions of innocent human lives is the right thing to do.

---

I mean, I'm sure there are some pro-choice people here, but there are many pro-life people who are pro-vaxx. Heck, many of us are pro-vaxx BECAUSE we're pro-life.

---

Awesome that's your choice to protect yourself and it's great that you have the freedom to choose that.

---

Yep, and private employers have the right to protect their workplace by requiring a vaccine. You have the choice to stay or leave.

Again, I oppose the rule, but I oppose all OSHA rules. I'm consistent. You are not.

Orthodox Texan said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

schmendeler said:

---

The children have been humored long enough. The adults are tired of asking nicely.

---

Sounds like a threat from a spineless punk. What are you going to do about it? I've said this many times before, you have no idea what's coming. Keep pushing the real adults and see what happens.

---

What's going to happen, champ? You going to post more on a message board?

---

Says the internet tough guy who made the first threat like a coward little punk. The crowd that you come from is so so lame and weak. You're definitely a simp.

---

Are you 5? What kind of grown man talks like this?

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Please learn to read. Did I say the vaccine was harmful? You guys are the worst posters on this site.

---

Coming from the guy who said this?

Quote:

---

I don't know man it sounds pretty harmful but then again this is coming from the group that believes murdering millions of innocent human lives is the right thing to do.

---

I mean, I'm sure there are some pro-choice people here, but there are many pro-life people who are pro-vaxx. Heck, many of us are pro-vaxx BECAUSE we're pro-life.

---

Awesome that's your choice to protect yourself and it's great that you have the freedom to choose that.

---

Yep, and private employers have the right to protect their workplace by requiring a vaccine. You have the choice to stay or leave.

Again, I oppose the rule, but I oppose all OSHA rules. I'm consistent. You are not.

---

No I'm consistent. I've said from the beginning that the President shouldn't be influencing private companies at this level and now he's straight up threatening us. Did you watch the video? Even another idiot poster on here made the same statement.

This is a horrible look for an Orthodox Christian. I don't think this conversation is good for you.

Orthodox Texan said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Please learn to read. Did I say the vaccine was harmful? You guys are the worst posters on this site.

---

Coming from the guy who said this?

Quote:

---

I don't know man it sounds pretty harmful but then again this is coming from the group that believes murdering millions of innocent human lives is the right thing to do.

---

I mean, I'm sure there are some pro-choice people here, but there are many pro-life people who are pro-vaxx. Heck, many of us are pro-vaxx BECAUSE we're pro-life.

---

Awesome that's your choice to protect yourself and it's great that you have the freedom to choose that.

---

Yep, and private employers have the right to protect their workplace by requiring a vaccine. You have the choice to stay or leave.

Again, I oppose the rule, but I oppose all OSHA rules. I'm consistent. You are not.

---

No I'm consistent. I've said from the beginning that the President shouldn't be influencing private companies at this level and now he's straight up threatening us. Did you watch the video? Even another idiot poster on here made the same statement.

---

Hey, here's a challenge. Go one post without calling someone a name.

Dude, presidents have been doing this from the beginning. Heck, Trump tried doing it because athletes wouldn't stand during a song. I oppose this rule because I oppose all OSHA rules. This is simply a matter of you not liking this rule. You don't have a problem with the others. So enough with your faux outrage over tyranny. You just don't like the flavor.

But "threatening" is nothing new. That's what government does regardless of who is in power.

Zobel said:

---

This is a horrible look for an Orthodox Christian. I don't think this conversation is good for you.

---

Give it a rest Zobel. I'll even put it my confession next week and see what my priest says. I pray more than argue but I'm here for the convo. I said I would drop back in from time to time and yesterday was a perfect example.

Orthodox Texan said:

---

Zobel said:

---

This is a horrible look for an Orthodox Christian. I don't think this conversation is good for you.

---

Give it a rest Zobel. I'll even put it my confession next week and see what my priest says. I pray more than argue but I'm here for the convo. I said I would drop back in from time to time and yesterday was a perfect example.

---

Ah, the "I'll sin more so grace may abound" approach.

And you aren't here for conversation. You're here to fight.

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

PacifistAg said:

---

Orthodox Texan said:

---

craigernaught said:

---

The vaccine isn't harmful.

Stop being overdramatic.

---

Please learn to read. Did I say the vaccine was harmful? You guys are the worst posters on this site.

---

Coming from the guy who said this?

Quote:

---

I don't know man it sounds pretty harmful but then again this is coming from the group that believes murdering millions of innocent human lives is the right thing to do.

---

I mean, I'm sure there are some pro-choice people here, but there are many pro-life people who are pro-vaxx. Heck, many of us are pro-vaxx BECAUSE we're pro-life.

---

Awesome that's your choice to protect yourself and it's great that you have the freedom to choose that.

---

Yep, and private employers have the right to protect their workplace by requiring a vaccine. You have the choice to stay or leave.

Again, I oppose the rule, but I oppose all OSHA rules. I'm consistent. You are not.

---

No I'm consistent. I've said from the beginning that the President shouldn't be influencing private companies at this level and now he's straight up threatening us. Did you watch the video? Even another idiot poster on here made the same statement.

---

Hey, here's a challenge. Go one post without calling someone a name.

Dude, presidents have been doing this from the beginning. Heck, Trump tried doing it because athletes wouldn't stand during a song. I oppose this rule because I oppose all OSHA rules. This is simply a matter of you not liking this rule. You don't have a problem with the others. So enough with your faux outrage over tyranny. You just don't like the flavor.

But "threatening" is nothing new. That's what government does regardless of who is in power.

---

So you are upset with a name call but fine with the Presidents threat that trickled down to some lame poster on here that probably runs in your even more lame Zobel circle that fights the antivaxxers!! What a crowd. Some of you truly don't deserve what you have.