Right? Wrong? Meh?
I figured I had one half of G&A, might as well get the other.
I figured I had one half of G&A, might as well get the other.
dargscisyhp said:
Right? Wrong? Meh?
I figured I had one half of G&A, might as well get the other.
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How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
What about 16 years from birth??diehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
diehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
How about if the parents of the child are monsters who want to kill you, rape and enslave your wife and put your kids to work in camps?Mort Rainey said:
All subjective religious belief aside, if you've ever actually been in the room for the birth of a child, you should be pro life. How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
diehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
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Plenty of people do. Our current HHS secretary is an extreme advocate and even denies laws on the books exist surrounding such procedures as partial birth abortions. Hell Beto and governor black face were ok with asking women if they wanted their child after it was born or up until the day of because only women should be able to make the decision.
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All kinds of people do. And it's impressive that you can make a distinction between a couple hours before birth and third term abortion in general, but that's on you
diehard03 said:Quote:
Plenty of people do. Our current HHS secretary is an extreme advocate and even denies laws on the books exist surrounding such procedures as partial birth abortions. Hell Beto and governor black face were ok with asking women if they wanted their child after it was born or up until the day of because only women should be able to make the decision.
No they don't. Proponents of partial birth abortions only do so as a safer methodology (for the mother) than killing the baby in the womb and they dealing with extracting it. it most likely occurs in the 2nd trimester.
I still think it's vile, but we don't do the debate justice by implying that people are waiting until natural labor starts and then demanding the baby be killed half way out...or thinking that pro choice advocates really want babies to be killed after they are born.Quote:
All kinds of people do. And it's impressive that you can make a distinction between a couple hours before birth and third term abortion in general, but that's on you
I'm not? Your point was T-several hours, not the entire 3rd trimester...unless you're calling 3 months the same as "only hours before"?
Governor of Virginia is for T+ hours from birth abortiondiehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
I say this with all possible love for my fellow children of God, but most people are entirely reactive. Their lives are a series of crises, each one closely following the next. Relationship, money, career, health, pregnancy, and on and on. Every crisis is met with all the personal and networked resources and attention that can be mustered, but no effort is left to be used to prevent the next impending but easily avoidable crisis. Trying to teach my kids to avoid this cycle is one of the hardest things I have done as a parent, and I have not yet succeeded.Quote:
In this day and age with so many preventative measures available, you have to wonder how some people get themselves into this predicament.
747Ag said:
Wrong. Next question.
To be fair, here's the full quote from Gov. NorthamPro Sandy said:Governor of Virginia is for T+ hours from birth abortiondiehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
"The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother"
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The HHS secretary said he didn't think a partial birth abortion ban was on the books. He's fought it since being California's AG. Governor blackface said on a call in radio show that he's ok with asking a woman after a baby's born if she wants it. Beto deftly avoided the question by saying it should be a woman's choice. They're totally ok with it. We don't do it justice by lying about what they've actually said in response to direct questions about it (all of what I've said is on the record). It's the idea that they don't want it that you won't find. They've all been questioned point blank.
The idea that they don't want it is what's missing, facts not in evidence. That's closer to humanist thinking, that people are inherently good.
ramblin_ag02 said:I Trying to teach my kids to avoid this cycle is one of the hardest things I have done as a parent, and I have not yet succeeded.Quote:
In this day and age with so many preventative measures available, you have to wonder how some people get themselves into this predicament.
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And is third trimester and T-"several hours from birth" the same? Given a baby just survived being born at 21 weeks, yes, they are the same.
Quad Dog said:To be fair, here's the full quote from Gov. NorthamPro Sandy said:Governor of Virginia is for T+ hours from birth abortiondiehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
"The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother"
"When we talk about third trimester abortions it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that is non-viable," Northam said. "If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."
Discussing nonviable births or later term abortions of severe deformities is very different from late term abortions of healthy babies. I'm not saying there aren't people out there in favor of abortion at any time because they are out there. But I would classify them as on the extreme.
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You're not even wrestling with the actual morality of killing a human being at this point. This is the essence of what we're arguing against; the permissiveness of it, the justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process and this is the natural end. Why discuss the morality of it when you've accepted that it's ok?
diehard03 said:Quote:
The HHS secretary said he didn't think a partial birth abortion ban was on the books. He's fought it since being California's AG. Governor blackface said on a call in radio show that he's ok with asking a woman after a baby's born if she wants it. Beto deftly avoided the question by saying it should be a woman's choice. They're totally ok with it. We don't do it justice by lying about what they've actually said in response to direct questions about it (all of what I've said is on the record). It's the idea that they don't want it that you won't find. They've all been questioned point blank.
The idea that they don't want it is what's missing, facts not in evidence. That's closer to humanist thinking, that people are inherently good.
Why are you using highly politicized examples that probably contain nuance as your rebuttal for the overwhelming majority of people who aren't in favor of abortion hours before a natural birth?
I highly doubt the governor is meaning that they kill the birthed baby if someone gives it up.
Beto is just saying political gibberish.
Come on guys. it's like you've never had a real conversation with a rank and file pro-lifer. Not political pandering, just a normal conversation. They aren't bloodthirsty savages. They're just misinformed.
diehard03 said:Quote:
You're not even wrestling with the actual morality of killing a human being at this point. This is the essence of what we're arguing against; the permissiveness of it, the justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process and this is the natural end. Why discuss the morality of it when you've accepted that it's ok?
I don't think it's ok. that's why I'm not wrestling with it.
You're so blinded by the political nonsense that you don't even know what I'm arguing against.
This is itself a dehumanizing statement to make about those mothers and women. There are a lot of reasons women want to end a pregnancy. I'd classify "effort they want to give" as towards the bottom of the list women have abortions according to this study.Quote:
he justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process
Quad Dog said:
I didn't post my opinion or thoughts on the molarity of abortion at all. Just clarified a quote that left out some context. That's a pretty big accusation to throw at someone about morality with no justification at all.This it itself a dehumanizing statement to make about those mothers and women. There are a lot of reasons women want to end a pregnancy. I'd classify "effort they want to give" as towards the bottom of the list women have abortions according to this study.Quote:
he justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf
This. I tend to avoid this debate because it's become nothing but political talking points devoid of nuance. It's like the recent SBC resolution that was not passed (I think) on abortion. The conservative wing is furious an painting it as the SBC is unwilling to condemn abortion. In reality, the issue was with the language that called women who have abortion murderers, and that they should be punished as murderers. It makes no mention of the root causes of abortion. It only seeks to ban and punish.diehard03 said:Quote:
And is third trimester and T-"several hours from birth" the same? Given a baby just survived being born at 21 weeks, yes, they are the same.
Irrelevant point. No one is advocating all women line up to give birth at 21 weeks.
Characterizing people who seek abortions as sadists demonstrates a lack of caring about solving the problem. It's just a political talking point at that stage.