Right? Wrong? Meh?
I figured I had one half of G&A, might as well get the other.
I figured I had one half of G&A, might as well get the other.
So, abortion . . . .
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Last: 2 yr ago by Faithful Ag
I believe Mr. Chappelle covered it quite nicely in his latest special.
Murder...is that right and proper for a civilized society? Psychologically fruitful? Is it possible that many have been brain-washed?
Grab some popcorn...why the ongoing cover-up? The Phenomenon: FF to 1:22:35 https://tubitv.com/movies/632920/the-phenomenon
An est. 68 MILLION Americans, including 19 MILLION Black Children, have been killed in the WOMB since 1973-act, pray and vote accordingly.
TAMU purpose statement: To develop leaders of character dedicated to serving the greater good. Team entrance song at KYLE FIELD is laced with profanity including THE Nword..
The greater good?
An est. 68 MILLION Americans, including 19 MILLION Black Children, have been killed in the WOMB since 1973-act, pray and vote accordingly.
TAMU purpose statement: To develop leaders of character dedicated to serving the greater good. Team entrance song at KYLE FIELD is laced with profanity including THE Nword..
The greater good?
For me it comes down to the belief I have in God being the God of Life. He wills life into existence and abortion is a rejection of God's will. Who are we to play God? Who lives and who dies?
dargscisyhp said:
Right? Wrong? Meh?
I figured I had one half of G&A, might as well get the other.
Kind of a vague question. Better question: Is there enough similarities between the Angel of Death in Exodus and the Angel of the Lord/Yahweh to make God a killer of unborn Egyptians to save His own people?
I say yes.
All subjective religious belief aside, if you've ever actually been in the room for the birth of a child, you should be pro life. How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
What about 16 years from birth??diehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
diehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
Plenty of people do. Our current HHS secretary is an extreme advocate and even denies laws on the books exist surrounding such procedures as partial birth abortions. Hell Beto and governor black face were ok with asking women if they wanted their child after it was born or up until the day of because only women should be able to make the decision.
How about if the parents of the child are monsters who want to kill you, rape and enslave your wife and put your kids to work in camps?Mort Rainey said:
All subjective religious belief aside, if you've ever actually been in the room for the birth of a child, you should be pro life. How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
diehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
All kinds of people do. And it's impressive that you can make a distinction between a couple hours before birth and third term abortion in general, but that's on you
I like the equivalence of all abortion with late third trimester abortion. Real honest conversation.
Quote:
Plenty of people do. Our current HHS secretary is an extreme advocate and even denies laws on the books exist surrounding such procedures as partial birth abortions. Hell Beto and governor black face were ok with asking women if they wanted their child after it was born or up until the day of because only women should be able to make the decision.
No they don't. Proponents of partial birth abortions only do so as a safer methodology (for the mother) than killing the baby in the womb and they dealing with extracting it. it most likely occurs in the 2nd trimester.
I still think it's vile, but we don't do the debate justice by implying that people are waiting until natural labor starts and then demanding the baby be killed half way out...or thinking that pro choice advocates really want babies to be killed after they are born.
Quote:
All kinds of people do. And it's impressive that you can make a distinction between a couple hours before birth and third term abortion in general, but that's on you
I'm not? Your point was T-several hours, not the entire 3rd trimester...unless you're calling 3 months the same as "only hours before"?
diehard03 said:Quote:
Plenty of people do. Our current HHS secretary is an extreme advocate and even denies laws on the books exist surrounding such procedures as partial birth abortions. Hell Beto and governor black face were ok with asking women if they wanted their child after it was born or up until the day of because only women should be able to make the decision.
No they don't. Proponents of partial birth abortions only do so as a safer methodology (for the mother) than killing the baby in the womb and they dealing with extracting it. it most likely occurs in the 2nd trimester.
I still think it's vile, but we don't do the debate justice by implying that people are waiting until natural labor starts and then demanding the baby be killed half way out...or thinking that pro choice advocates really want babies to be killed after they are born.Quote:
All kinds of people do. And it's impressive that you can make a distinction between a couple hours before birth and third term abortion in general, but that's on you
I'm not? Your point was T-several hours, not the entire 3rd trimester...unless you're calling 3 months the same as "only hours before"?
The HHS secretary said he didn't think a partial birth abortion ban was on the books. He's fought it since being California's AG. Governor blackface said on a call in radio show that he's ok with asking a woman after a baby's born if she wants it. Beto deftly avoided the question by saying it should be a woman's choice. They're totally ok with it. We don't do it justice by lying about what they've actually said in response to direct questions about it (all of what I've said is on the record). It's the idea that they don't want it that you won't find. They've all been questioned point blank.
The idea that they don't want it is what's missing, facts not in evidence. That's closer to humanist thinking, that people are inherently good.
Governor of Virginia is for T+ hours from birth abortiondiehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
"The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother"
Beto's thoughts on third trimester abortion?
"should be a decision the woman makes"
New York passed laws allowing third trimester abortions not just to protect the life of the mother, but also the health.
So yes, there are those who not only believe in abortion at T-"several hours from birth" but are fighting for the legal right to that.
And is third trimester and T-"several hours from birth" the same? Given a baby just survived being born at 21 weeks, yes, they are the same.
I'll say this first and foremost; I believe abortion is wrong. Secondly, I believe in freedom.
If everyone, including myself, did the Lord's bidding in their lives, abortion would certainly decrease dramatically.
In this day and age with so many preventative measures available, you have to wonder how some people get themselves into this predicament.
As I type all this, I do believe there are exceptions that should be considered.
If everyone, including myself, did the Lord's bidding in their lives, abortion would certainly decrease dramatically.
In this day and age with so many preventative measures available, you have to wonder how some people get themselves into this predicament.
As I type all this, I do believe there are exceptions that should be considered.
I say this with all possible love for my fellow children of God, but most people are entirely reactive. Their lives are a series of crises, each one closely following the next. Relationship, money, career, health, pregnancy, and on and on. Every crisis is met with all the personal and networked resources and attention that can be mustered, but no effort is left to be used to prevent the next impending but easily avoidable crisis. Trying to teach my kids to avoid this cycle is one of the hardest things I have done as a parent, and I have not yet succeeded.Quote:
In this day and age with so many preventative measures available, you have to wonder how some people get themselves into this predicament.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
The groups that say, "Not all abortions are late third trimester - geez guys" still don't answer the question - are you okay with it?
It always suddenly becomes about externalities and devolves into one of two conversation paths:
-The parents are always hypothetical sociopaths that are going to enslave their child, so killing the kid was the humane thing to do.
-Conservatives don't care about kids once they are born. If they did they would fund *checks notes* infinite social programs up until the child is 18 on the backs of tax payers. (Please disregard the litany of Christian non-profits whose sole mission is to serve the needs of mothers so they don't get abortions)
-Or wildcard third path: conversation starts talking about how those poor minority parents aren't fit to be parents and their kids are more likely to be criminals. Woke liberalism looks a lot like racism.
You can't ever hold an abortion debate solely on the act of killing the fetus. The debate always wriggles free into some other externality.
In NYC, 60% of all fetus's end in abortion. That is an insane number. Its indefensible. These are murders of convenience to free themselves of economic consequences.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion/
It always suddenly becomes about externalities and devolves into one of two conversation paths:
-The parents are always hypothetical sociopaths that are going to enslave their child, so killing the kid was the humane thing to do.
-Conservatives don't care about kids once they are born. If they did they would fund *checks notes* infinite social programs up until the child is 18 on the backs of tax payers. (Please disregard the litany of Christian non-profits whose sole mission is to serve the needs of mothers so they don't get abortions)
-Or wildcard third path: conversation starts talking about how those poor minority parents aren't fit to be parents and their kids are more likely to be criminals. Woke liberalism looks a lot like racism.
You can't ever hold an abortion debate solely on the act of killing the fetus. The debate always wriggles free into some other externality.
In NYC, 60% of all fetus's end in abortion. That is an insane number. Its indefensible. These are murders of convenience to free themselves of economic consequences.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion/
Wrong. Next question.
747Ag said:
Wrong. Next question.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Not to derail but I really like Compassion international as
a charity to help kids.
a charity to help kids.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
To be fair, here's the full quote from Gov. NorthamPro Sandy said:Governor of Virginia is for T+ hours from birth abortiondiehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
"The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother"
"When we talk about third trimester abortions it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that is non-viable," Northam said. "If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."
Discussing nonviable births or later term abortions of severe deformities is very different from late term abortions of healthy babies. I'm not saying there aren't people out there in favor of abortion at any time because they are out there. But I would classify them as on the extreme.
Quote:
The HHS secretary said he didn't think a partial birth abortion ban was on the books. He's fought it since being California's AG. Governor blackface said on a call in radio show that he's ok with asking a woman after a baby's born if she wants it. Beto deftly avoided the question by saying it should be a woman's choice. They're totally ok with it. We don't do it justice by lying about what they've actually said in response to direct questions about it (all of what I've said is on the record). It's the idea that they don't want it that you won't find. They've all been questioned point blank.
The idea that they don't want it is what's missing, facts not in evidence. That's closer to humanist thinking, that people are inherently good.
Why are you using highly politicized examples that probably contain nuance as your rebuttal for the overwhelming majority of people who aren't in favor of abortion hours before a natural birth?
I highly doubt the governor is meaning that they kill the birthed baby if someone gives it up.
Beto is just saying political gibberish.
Come on guys. it's like you've never had a real conversation with a rank and file pro-lifer. Not political pandering, just a normal conversation. They aren't bloodthirsty savages. They're just misinformed.
ramblin_ag02 said:I Trying to teach my kids to avoid this cycle is one of the hardest things I have done as a parent, and I have not yet succeeded.Quote:
In this day and age with so many preventative measures available, you have to wonder how some people get themselves into this predicament.
You will certainly be commended one day for trying and I want to encourage you to keep trying.
I believe the idea, "you can have your cake and eat it too" is going to implode our country if it hasn't started already.
Sigh! People were born with too much intelligence. It's either not being used or being squandered by far too many. We need to move away from this.
Lastly, I'd like to point out that of all the recent articles and press that has centered around the US birthrate/population decline, not one has mentioned abortions. I wonder why.
Quote:
And is third trimester and T-"several hours from birth" the same? Given a baby just survived being born at 21 weeks, yes, they are the same.
Irrelevant point. No one is advocating all women line up to give birth at 21 weeks.
Characterizing people who seek abortions as sadists demonstrates a lack of caring about solving the problem. It's just a political talking point at that stage.
Quad Dog said:To be fair, here's the full quote from Gov. NorthamPro Sandy said:Governor of Virginia is for T+ hours from birth abortiondiehard03 said:Quote:
How there are people who could witness that and then be fine with the logic of killing this baby only hours before is pure sadistic insanity
it's a good thing that no one believes in abortion at T-"several hours from birth".
"The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother"
"When we talk about third trimester abortions it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that is non-viable," Northam said. "If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."
Discussing nonviable births or later term abortions of severe deformities is very different from late term abortions of healthy babies. I'm not saying there aren't people out there in favor of abortion at any time because they are out there. But I would classify them as on the extreme.
You're not even wrestling with the actual morality of killing a human being at this point. This is the essence of what we're arguing against; the permissiveness of it, the justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process and this is the natural end. Why discuss the morality of it when you've accepted that it's ok?
Quote:
You're not even wrestling with the actual morality of killing a human being at this point. This is the essence of what we're arguing against; the permissiveness of it, the justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process and this is the natural end. Why discuss the morality of it when you've accepted that it's ok?
I don't think it's ok. that's why I'm not wrestling with it.
You're so blinded by the political nonsense that you don't even know what I'm arguing against.
diehard03 said:Quote:
The HHS secretary said he didn't think a partial birth abortion ban was on the books. He's fought it since being California's AG. Governor blackface said on a call in radio show that he's ok with asking a woman after a baby's born if she wants it. Beto deftly avoided the question by saying it should be a woman's choice. They're totally ok with it. We don't do it justice by lying about what they've actually said in response to direct questions about it (all of what I've said is on the record). It's the idea that they don't want it that you won't find. They've all been questioned point blank.
The idea that they don't want it is what's missing, facts not in evidence. That's closer to humanist thinking, that people are inherently good.
Why are you using highly politicized examples that probably contain nuance as your rebuttal for the overwhelming majority of people who aren't in favor of abortion hours before a natural birth?
I highly doubt the governor is meaning that they kill the birthed baby if someone gives it up.
Beto is just saying political gibberish.
Come on guys. it's like you've never had a real conversation with a rank and file pro-lifer. Not political pandering, just a normal conversation. They aren't bloodthirsty savages. They're just misinformed.
This is a bad faith argument from the start. Assume that I'm ignoring some key part of the response or questions and use that as a springboard to dismiss me by assuming I've never had a real life conversation about it.
Perhaps you should ask why a politician has to answer like that instead of questioning me. If there aren't people out there that fully embrace it why is there a need for 'political gibberish'? The governor absolutely meant it and even quad dog's 'nuance' doesn't make it better (we only kill the deformed ones!).
Your deference to misinformation and not thinking there are actual people out there that fully support knowing what it is likely points to a rift in our theology that may make this discussion irreconcilable. I'm less and less a materialist which means I look less and less for physical explanation and physical cure alone (misinformation, past trauma, abuse, financial pressure); instead I believe there is a corresponding spiritual issue. I do not view the two as separate or something we can fully solve simply by diagnosing and introducing our material cure. Likewise if demons exist and spiritual warfare exists, it is not unreasonable that there are truly people who want it.
diehard03 said:Quote:
You're not even wrestling with the actual morality of killing a human being at this point. This is the essence of what we're arguing against; the permissiveness of it, the justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process and this is the natural end. Why discuss the morality of it when you've accepted that it's ok?
I don't think it's ok. that's why I'm not wrestling with it.
You're so blinded by the political nonsense that you don't even know what I'm arguing against.
That was not a response to you unless you also post under the name quad dog.
Edit: Did you forget to switch accounts?
My apologies then. Continue your crusade against someone whos only offering clarifying information.
I didn't post my opinion or thoughts on the molarity of abortion at all. Just clarified a quote that left out some context. That's a pretty big accusation to throw at someone about morality with no justification at all.
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf
This is itself a dehumanizing statement to make about those mothers and women. There are a lot of reasons women want to end a pregnancy. I'd classify "effort they want to give" as towards the bottom of the list women have abortions according to this study.Quote:
he justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf
Who's got the time for multiple accounts? Are there people in the real world that do this?
Quad Dog said:
I didn't post my opinion or thoughts on the molarity of abortion at all. Just clarified a quote that left out some context. That's a pretty big accusation to throw at someone about morality with no justification at all.This it itself a dehumanizing statement to make about those mothers and women. There are a lot of reasons women want to end a pregnancy. I'd classify "effort they want to give" as towards the bottom of the list women have abortions according to this study.Quote:
he justification of women and mothers holding the power over life an death based on how much effort they want to give is a dehumanizing process
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf
Right you added 'nuance' and walked away, only commenting that you, too, think they're more or less extremely rare. Edit: you didn't discuss at all whether you think deformities are ok to kill children over. I mean it's a glaring omission, the morality discussion, if you only show up for nuance and try to duck out like an unbiased observer of the debate.
The results actually support what I said. Would interfere with work / school, worried about single parenthood, etc. Yes, their lives would change and it would take more work to make ends meet and attend to all the needs. Absolutely a ton of effort involved in that and it's easier initially to make the decision to kill the child than put in 18 years of work.
I'd like to see some guidelines for which "deformities" justify terminating a pregnancy in the 3rd trimester. I would assume these exist, but I think they should be codified into law.
This. I tend to avoid this debate because it's become nothing but political talking points devoid of nuance. It's like the recent SBC resolution that was not passed (I think) on abortion. The conservative wing is furious an painting it as the SBC is unwilling to condemn abortion. In reality, the issue was with the language that called women who have abortion murderers, and that they should be punished as murderers. It makes no mention of the root causes of abortion. It only seeks to ban and punish.diehard03 said:Quote:
And is third trimester and T-"several hours from birth" the same? Given a baby just survived being born at 21 weeks, yes, they are the same.
Irrelevant point. No one is advocating all women line up to give birth at 21 weeks.
Characterizing people who seek abortions as sadists demonstrates a lack of caring about solving the problem. It's just a political talking point at that stage.
I often get called pro-choice, even though I am adamantly opposed to abortion. It's because I don't believe a ban is the solution. I recently tweeted about the "guilt" of abortion, and how so many just want to lazily cast it on women, yet make no consideration of the men who may rape them, abuse them, or the inherent problems with a system that leaves women feeling as though abortion is their best option. Yes, abortion is immoral, but blanket bans without addressing root causes is not going to fix it. Casting all the blame on women, without any effort to understand their reasoning or desperation, won't fix the problem.
Everything is black/white, left/right partisan political garbage where real progress becomes nearly impossible.
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