Homosexuality, adultery, pornography were all relatively common in prechristian western history.
Zobel said:
Homosexuality, adultery, pornography were all relatively common in prechristian western history.
Pierow said:Zobel said:
Homosexuality, adultery, pornography were all relatively common in prechristian western history.
I never said they weren't. However, they were on the periphery. The United States government has never sanctioned immoral behavior until the last 30 years or so. Abortion not withstanding. If you can't see things getting worse, I don't know what to tell you.
You are coming from a perspective and country that has enjoyed Christian dominance since its inception. But "history" has seen far worse. Once Christianity is no longer the "norm", you should expect to see all sorts of debauchery.Pierow said:Zobel said:
Homosexuality, adultery, pornography were all relatively common in prechristian western history.
I never said they weren't. However, they were on the periphery. The United States government has never sanctioned immoral behavior until the last 30 years or so. Abortion not withstanding. If you can't see things getting worse, I don't know what to tell you.
schmendeler said:Pierow said:Zobel said:
Homosexuality, adultery, pornography were all relatively common in prechristian western history.
I never said they weren't. However, they were on the periphery. The United States government has never sanctioned immoral behavior until the last 30 years or so. Abortion not withstanding. If you can't see things getting worse, I don't know what to tell you.
Slavery was not immoral? You might need to take a breather, you're out of it. That's ONE example.
Zobel said:
But they weren't on the periphery. Homosexuality was normative in Ancient Greece. Pederasty was normative in Rome. Incredibly casual sex was normal, extramarital sex was normal, rape was normal, slavery was normal, et cetera ad nauseam. To describe better or worse implies a reference or trajectory. But if you say "in history" that must include time before say the past two hundred years.
Zobel said:
Pederasty was absolutely "government sanctioned" in history. As was transgenderism (look up the initiation rites of the priests of Cybele). And orgies. And homosexuality. And ritual sex. And slavery. And many many other things we post-Christians abhor.
Again, you need to widen your lens of what is "history".
PacifistAg said:
Are you saying equal rights for LGBTQIA people is a problem? And what do you mean by "government sanction"?
Macarthur said:
He's simply pointing out that you're wrong. That's not arguing.
Macarthur said:
Equal rights are evil?
Pierow said:Macarthur said:
Equal rights are evil?
Why not equal rights for rapists? Murderers? Pedophiles?
Quote:
Really? For thousands of years the perversity of homosexuality, rampant adultery, ubiquitous pornography, would never have been tolerated. Don't get me wrong, the potential was always there, and it did exist on the periphery throughout history. But now, it's being celebrated, encouraged, legalized. I don't blame the world for doing what it does, that's the churches fault. But it is happening everywhere. The church is not doing doing its job.
Pierow said:PacifistAg said:
Are you saying equal rights for LGBTQIA people is a problem? And what do you mean by "government sanction"?
Yes, I am. It's a horrible thing. It's a terrible thing. It is an evil thing.
Pierow said:Macarthur said:
Equal rights are evil?
Why not equal rights for rapists? Murderers? Pedophiles? What's the harm? Sorry, if God Almighty says it's a sin, that it's evil, then I agree with that. Just saying equal rights for any little thing you want to, doesn't make it a moral, righteous thing.
Pierow said:Zobel said:
Pederasty was absolutely "government sanctioned" in history. As was transgenderism (look up the initiation rites of the priests of Cybele). And orgies. And homosexuality. And ritual sex. And slavery. And many many other things we post-Christians abhor.
Again, you need to widen your lens of what is "history".
Do you argue with everyone just for the sake of argument? you seem to do this on every thread. Show me this proof of government sanctioned pederasty. Was everything you mentioned prior to Christ's first earthly visit? If so, it was prior to the Holy Spirit's influence a monks the world population, was it not?
Bryanisbest said:
Acts 1:12. The distance from Jerusalem, location of first Church, is 2000 cubits, a "Sabbath Day's Journey; 2000 cubits distance from Jerusalem back to Mt Olivet. I believe this 2000 cubits is symbolic for the length of the grace age, 2000 years. Jesus was born in the year 0 and was 33 1/2 years old at His death. 2000 years (cubits) after 33 1/2 AD will be 2033, the year Christ will touch down as predicted in Acts 1:12 on Mt Olivet, 2000 years after the first church was planted in Jerusalem.
Notice also in Joshua 3, the people were told to stay 2000 cubits (years) behind the Ark. This would signify the Ark, a type of Christ, crossing Jordan (symbolic of death) 2000 years before the people (the church) signifying the rapture at the end of the tribulation.
Get ready folks. Jesus coming back in 2033, give or take 6 years due to uncertainty of the year of his birth.
Zobel said:
Does it take two to argue? I suggested your view of history is narrow. You should either qualify your reference for "worse" or go learn that things were a LOT worse in the categories you mentioned in the ancient world.
As for government sanctioned. Many places this was not only held up as the ideal or pinnacle of human love and relationship but was a fundamental part of military life. So beyond government allowed or incredibly common social practice this goes into government-required. You could look up the erastes-eromenos practices of Sparta for a concrete example.
Quote:
How did God handle rampant immorality? He flooded the world, and sent down fire and brimstone.
PacifistAg said:Pierow said:PacifistAg said:
Are you saying equal rights for LGBTQIA people is a problem? And what do you mean by "government sanction"?
Yes, I am. It's a horrible thing. It's a terrible thing. It is an evil thing.
Wow. So, let me ask you this. I'm a trans woman (and Christian). What rights should I not have? I'm really curious. Should I be imprisoned? Should others be free to assault me, or worse?
PacifistAg said:Quote:
How did God handle rampant immorality? He flooded the world, and sent down fire and brimstone.
Pre-flood = world was corrupt and full of violence
Sodom = arrogance, plenty of food, and carefree ease, but she did not help the poor and needy
Neither of these were attribute to LGBTQIA people.
PacifistAg said:
Dude, I literally just wrote what the Bible says about them in Genesis and Ezekiel. I thought you believe every word.
PacifistAg said:
Dude, I literally just wrote what the Bible says about them in Genesis and Ezekiel. I thought you believe every word.