Saint Pablo said:
Ag4coal said:
Saint Pablo said:
Ol_Ag_02 said:
Saint Pablo said:
As a lifelong Catholic, I really struggle with the concept of a celibate priesthood. I don't understand how having a wife and kids would make a priest any less holy or any less capable of leading a parish towards Christ. I especially struggle with the idea that this regulation (not dogma) came about around the twelfth century so that priests' land couldn't be inherited by their descendants, rather it would be returned to the church. Christ's apostles were married.
Many protestant preachers that I have known or listened to in person or online seem to be much stronger in conveying Christ's message than some of the priests that I have encountered, despite having wives and kids. I think that one of the primary reasons that the 80% of Catholics no longer practice the faith 10 years after receiving the sacrament of Confirmation is because Christ's message isn't firmly delivered in mass and I think this is primarily because there is a shortage of strong, bold priests leading our churches. I think more men would feel inclined to become priests if they were able to live out that vocation while having a family of their own.
Would this prevent something like what Fr. Brian did? I think so, but maybe not. Maybe he would have just cheated on his wife and broken his vows.
I would argue that married clergy with children are better examples to follow than those that remain celibate. Life experience aids in guidance. Being able to relate to the layperson.
I agree.
Talk to any experienced priest about any of your lay problems, and you will be shocked by just how experienced they may be. Not directly, of course, but from the hundreds and thousands of other like you they've counseled.
I have talked to a few priests that have done an incredible job of understanding, helping, and relating to my problems as a lay man. A priest that was my spiritual director in middle school and high school seemed to understand everything that I was going through. However, I have encountered far more priests that struggle to help or understand the problems of a lay man. Confessions where a priest has nothing to offer, bu
The point of a celibate priesthood is to better serve their flock. Can you imagine all the baptisms, the confirmations, the last rights, the funerals, the church functions, etc, etc, etc. that these guys go through? Now do that with a family. There is a reason why "the pastor's kid" is such a common meme. I can't imagine trying to be a father, working 80+ hours a week and having to be the emotional and spiritual guide to thousands.
Is that the point? My father is close friends with the pastor of one of the largest protestant mega churches in the world....a church that is bigger than any Catholic Church in the country. He has three kids, an incredibly happy marriage, and is one of the best men that I have ever met. I don't see the responsibility of either inhibiting him from fulfilling the responsibilities of the other. The argument could be easily be made that if the celibate priesthood was removed, we would have more priests, and thus those responsibilities could be more evenly distributed, lessening the load on each priest.
Tradition says even the married apostles chose a life of celibacy within their marriages.
Everything that I have read about this seems to be pure speculation and there is little to no evidence that proves that the apostles didn't have sex. Eastern Catholic priests can be married. Married Anglican priests that convert are allowed to be Catholic priests.
The second advantage of a celibate life is that they SHOULD be free to much more bold in their proclamations and evangelizations. There is no one depending on them to keep their job, stay out of the fire of cancel culture, or even avoid martyrdom. The greatest Saints we know we're celibate because there was no earthly connections binding them to the worldly life. That's why they would cross continents and face torture and murder for their faith. Saint Francis can walk up to a Muslim army and try to evangelize a sultan, in part, because he wouldn't be leaving behind a widow and orphans.
This feels like complete nonsense to me. Many lay men have died for their faith over the years. Many protestants have died for their faith. People die for their country. People die for things as trivial as gangs. And you think that because a man is married, he would be less willing to lay down his life than someone who isn't? That kind of boldness is in a man or it isn't. It isn't inhibited because you are married or not or because you have sex or don't have sex.
Celibacy did not turn off strong men from the faith. There is a mountain of evidence and testimonials showing that men of certain inclinations took on leadership in the seminaries and made it very, very difficult for strong men on fire for God to make it to our pulpits. The priesthood was neutered from the inside, not by celibacy. And it's tragic.
While the latter part of your assertion here is likely true, I would certainly believe that. There is absolutely no way that is the case. We would have exponentially more priests if celibacy weren't a requirement.
On mobile, so sorry I can't make this an easier read:
1. The confessional is not a place for spiritual guidance. It is a place for the metaphysical cleansing of the soul. While it is great to get advice from your priest, it's not the point. A priest acting as a spiritual director is a radically different, and vital, piece of the spiritual life. Just like a priest that gives an excellent homily is a true blessing, even the weakest orator still offers the Eucharist to us.
2. I'm happy for the pastor you describe and know several myself. Same as with our priests, one good one does not describe the whole. Also (and I speak with experience here) the situation is not always as it seems. I pray and hope that pastor's children are in Heaven with all on this board. But the meme is still a meme for a very, very good reason. It is extremely difficult for the modern pastor to raise children because of their roles, if they are truly serving in their role correctly. Furthermore, all denominations that allow for married pastors are doing no better in their vocations that the Catholic Church is. It is a significant problem we need to address, but it's not unique to our celibate priests.
3. You can either believe Church tradition or not. You're not obligated to. But it's important to note that married Catholic priests that are in communion with Rome require their priests to be married prior to ordination and (at least in the case of Anglicans) are required to stay celibate, even in marriage.
4. Many lay men have died, for sure. But just look at the lives of the Saints. Look to the martyrs. Do the math. White martyrdom or red, you have to either be an unmarried, fatherless individual, or naive to think a married father of multiple children can take on the same level of sacrifice as a man with nothing to lose. St Paul flat out says it's better to stay single for this exact purpose. When you have a lot to lose on this earth, it's much, much harder to lay down your life. Even using your military or gang examples, the analogy still fails, as most men who have died in modern wars were either unmarried, or not yet a father. Same with gangs, which is obvious. Sure, there are many good men and women who have assumed the responsibility of martyrdom anyway. But if you want to talk sheer numbers, you'll lose. Call it nonsense if you want, but I'll side with Paul on this.
5. Again, there are articles on this. Vocations are struggling across denominations. It's not a "Catholic problem". Allowing priests to marry won't solve our problem, and it should not be used as a reasoning. Listen to Patrick Coffin. He's had several men who left the seminary speak on the sexual exploitation their rector attempted to subject them to. Listen to Father Altman's homily on silent clergymen. It's very, very, very difficult for a traditional Catholic man to make it through the seminary without hiding it. That is a revolting truth you can find with just. A little searching. The saddest part is that the men who were forced away from their calling are so devoutly Catholic that they reluctantly speak out about their experiences because they don't want to turn people away from the true faith. Say your rosaries for these men and the rectors/priests/bishops who forced them away