one MEEN Ag said:

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aggiedad20 said:

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Yes indeed, He was taken up into to heaven in a cloud and will return for His church (once, not twice) IN A CLOUD!!! 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Revelation 1:7

There is no "future" Kingdom where Jesus sets foot in earth and if you're anticipating it and awaiting some "millennium" you are not alone and in error.

Christ'a Kingdom has come. It's the church!

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AggieDad, I think there's some major misunderstanding here. I would highly recommend the Exploring My Strange Bible episode I linked to earlier. Yes, Christ wants us to live abundantly in the gospel right here right now and not wait on the return. Yes, Jesus stated he will return in a cloud. But what's the big hangup on Jesus not returning to earth?

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of Genesis to think God would just abandon earth and go make 'paradise' be somewhere else. The earth and man we're once perfect, and man walked alongside God. Sin broke that. Jesus's perfect sacrifice will mean one day the earth will be healed and man will be resurrected. Everything in the end times sets up for fixing what went wrong in Genesis 3, and that all happens on earth. Being whisked to the presence of God before resurrection is a temporary state. Man is meant to exist with both spirit and body as one.

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Amen

There are many posts here that the Church is basically God's people, Church referring to Christians. Yet prophet after prophet spoke about Israel (the Jews) being God's people. Not anyone else. Don't fool yourself.

Malachi 3:22 - "Remember the Torah of Moses My servant, whom I commanded at Horebstatutes and ordinances for all Israel." Read the whole chapter for the best context.


Zechariah 8:23 - Thus says Hashem, "In those days it will come to pass that ten men from every language of the nations will grasp the corner of the garment (referring to Tzitzit) of a Jew saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'"

Jeremiah 31 is all about the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Hashem declares in verses 35-36 - "Only if this fixed order departs from before Me"it is a declaration of Adonai"then also might Israel's offspring cease from being a nation before Mefor all time." 36 Thus says Adonai: "Only if heaven above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then also I will cast off the offspring of Israelfor all they have done." It is a declaration of Adonai.

Jermeiah 32: 37-42 - "See, I will gather them out of all the countries, where I have driven them in My anger, My fury, and great wrath, and I will bring them back to this place and cause them to dwell securely. 38 They will be My people, and I will be their God. 39 I will give them one heart and one way, so they may fear Me forever; for their good and for their children after them.
40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never turn away from doing good for them. I will put My fear in their hearts, so that they will not depart from Me.
41 "Yes, I will delight in doing good for them, and with all My heart and all My soul I will in truth plant them in this land."
42 For thus says Adonai: "Just as I have brought all this great evil on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them.

The dry bones prophecy from Ezekiel starting in chapter 37-40 is all about the house of Israel and the house of Judah - the northern and southern kingdoms.


Prophecy is about the people Israel and all those who come against her.

aggiedad20 said:

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Yes indeed, He was taken up into to heaven in a cloud and will return for His church (once, not twice) IN A CLOUD!!! 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Revelation 1:7

There is no "future" Kingdom where Jesus sets foot in earth and if you're anticipating it and awaiting some "millennium" you are not alone and in error.

Christ'a Kingdom has come. It's the church!

---

To reiterate, Zechariah 14:4-5:

"And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the

Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain

shall move towards the north and half of it towards the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain

valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in

the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You"


and

Matthew 25:31-32

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne

of His glory.

All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats"

agie95 said:

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There are many posts here that the Church is basically God's people, Church referring to Christians. Yet prophet after prophet spoke about Israel (the Jews) being God's people. Not anyone else. Don't fool yourself.

Malachi 3:22 - "Remember the Torah of Moses My servant, whom I commanded at Horebstatutes and ordinances for all Israel." Read the whole chapter for the best context.


Zechariah 8:23 - Thus says Hashem, "In those days it will come to pass that ten men from every language of the nations will grasp the corner of the garment (referring to Tzitzit) of a Jew saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'"

Jeremiah 31 is all about the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Hashem declares in verses 35-36 - "Only if this fixed order departs from before Me"it is a declaration of Adonai"then also might Israel's offspring cease from being a nation before Mefor all time." 36 Thus says Adonai: "Only if heaven above can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then also I will cast off the offspring of Israelfor all they have done." It is a declaration of Adonai.

Jermeiah 32: 37-42 - "See, I will gather them out of all the countries, where I have driven them in My anger, My fury, and great wrath, and I will bring them back to this place and cause them to dwell securely. 38 They will be My people, and I will be their God. 39 I will give them one heart and one way, so they may fear Me forever; for their good and for their children after them.
40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never turn away from doing good for them. I will put My fear in their hearts, so that they will not depart from Me.
41 "Yes, I will delight in doing good for them, and with all My heart and all My soul I will in truth plant them in this land."
42 For thus says Adonai: "Just as I have brought all this great evil on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them.

The dry bones prophecy from Ezekiel starting in chapter 37-40 is all about the house of Israel and the house of Judah - the northern and southern kingdoms.


Prophecy is about the people Israel and all those who come against her.

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Romans 9: 30-31:

30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained

righteousnesseven the righteousness that is by faith. 31 But Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, did not attain to the law. 32 Why that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but

as if by works. They stumbled over the stone that causes people to stumble[y], 33 just as it is written,



"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble[z],

and a rock that causes them to fall[aa],


and the one who believes in him will not be put to shame."

and

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you

may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once

were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

-1 Peter 2:9-10

God will still deal with Israel as a physical nation and in the Millennium, Jews will assume a special role of teaching ministry. But it is not because of their faith here and now, it is more likely in spite of their utter lack of faith in the Messiah. And God has promised to preserve Israel, not for their sake, but His integrity in His Word.
Satan would attempt to wipe out the Jewish people because in his thinking, that would prove the inefficacy of God's Word and promises.

Short answer. It is closer today than it was yesterday. Everyday the time draws nearer.

The quote you from Romans 9, to whom is that really speaking to? Unfortunately, people read gentiles and think that means you. There is no word for gentile. That is a made up translation. The word is more properly translated as nations. The nations referred to here

Look at the verses just before that, 24- 29. That is a prophecy. If you go back to the original prophecy in Hosea (for 24-26), to whom is the prophecy about? For verses 27-29, Paul already tells you to whom Isaiah is writing.

Paul can't take a prophecy specifically written for one group and say this is also for you. The house of Israel (northern tribes) were living with the nations. They were exiled, not my people. Therefore, Paul thinking these were in the end of days was going to those people and gathering the house of Israel.

The prophecy quoted in Romans 9, which this thought continues through ch 11, is about the house of Israel, the northern tribes.

agie95 said:

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The quote you from Romans 9, to whom is that really speaking to? Unfortunately, people read gentiles and think that means you. There is no word for gentile. That is a made up translation. The word is more properly translated as nations. The nations referred to here

Look at the verses just before that, 24- 29. That is a prophecy. If you go back to the original prophecy in Hosea (for 24-26), to whom is the prophecy about? For verses 27-29, Paul already tells you to whom Isaiah is writing.

Paul can't take a prophecy specifically written for one group and say this is also for you. The house of Israel (northern tribes) were living with the nations. They were exiled, not my people. Therefore, Paul thinking these were in the end of days was going to those people and gathering the house of Israel.

The prophecy quoted in Romans 9, which this thought continues through ch 11, is about the house of Israel, the northern tribes.

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But Paul did exactly that (refer to the Gentiles of faith) as being inheritors of the promises of God. I am not a replacement theology person, but Paul's writing expanded Grace to those who were not of Israel genetically. If you read Romans 9 he makes that abundantly clear, and Jesus does likewise in dealing with Samaritans and the Roman centurion.

It's also a major point of the Gospel according to St Luke. There's a reason the genealogy of St Luke goes back to Adam, for example.

UTExan said:

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agie95 said:

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The quote you from Romans 9, to whom is that really speaking to? Unfortunately, people read gentiles and think that means you. There is no word for gentile. That is a made up translation. The word is more properly translated as nations. The nations referred to here

Look at the verses just before that, 24- 29. That is a prophecy. If you go back to the original prophecy in Hosea (for 24-26), to whom is the prophecy about? For verses 27-29, Paul already tells you to whom Isaiah is writing.

Paul can't take a prophecy specifically written for one group and say this is also for you. The house of Israel (northern tribes) were living with the nations. They were exiled, not my people. Therefore, Paul thinking these were in the end of days was going to those people and gathering the house of Israel.

The prophecy quoted in Romans 9, which this thought continues through ch 11, is about the house of Israel, the northern tribes.

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But Paul did exactly that (refer to the Gentiles of faith) as being inheritors of the promises of God. I am not a replacement theology person, but Paul's writing expanded Grace to those who were not of Israel genetically. If you read Romans 9 he makes that abundantly clear, and Jesus does likewise in dealing with Samaritans and the Roman centurion.

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That was no expansion. The Torah already accounted for the inclusion on non-Jewish people. The correction was not to the Torah itself, but to bad Jewish doctrine that ran afoul of Torah.

Agreed. When I hear talk about the Northen tribes, I tend to think more of a cultural identity than a genetic one. After all, these people spent a very long time with the Torah and the direct blessings of God before the Assyrians scattered them to the winds. While overall their system and beliefs were a perversion of God's real Torah, even a perversion of the Torah may be preferable to the entirely pagan systems among the nations. Some principles of fairness, justice, mercy and God's goodness must have been sprinkled among the nations by diaspora of the Northern Kingdom.

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, [f]'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you."

bmks270 said:

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20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, [f]'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you."

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And the second coming of Jesus is different than the kingdom of God which is resident in believers. The second coming will result in the overturning of existing earthly authority which be handed over to the Lord Jesus Christ.

The only right answer is that no one knows. So it could be, or it couldn't be. Jesus himself said no one has a clue, so live every day to know, love, and serve Him as if it's your last day.

UTExan said:

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bmks270 said:

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20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, [f]'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you."

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And the second coming of Jesus is different than the kingdom of God which is resident in believers. The second coming will result in the overturning of existing earthly authority which be handed over to the Lord Jesus Christ.

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The DNC, Antifa and BLM will not agree to this.

Scripture talks about a cashless society. A coin is a form of cash. I wouldn't say scripture has been fulfilled in that sense.

Tamu_mgm said:

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The only right answer is that no one knows. So it could be, or it couldn't be. Jesus himself said no one has a clue, so live every day to know, love, and serve Him as if it's your last day.

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I hear that response a lot, it's nice but it's not exactly correct. There are many clues throughout the Bible about the End Times. The trueChristians alive in the End Times (if they've read AND understood their Bibles) will know they are in the end. Revelation even mentions certain events and lengths of time (# of days, months, etc.)

#Mke said:

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Scripture talks about a cashless society. A coin is a form of cash. I wouldn't say scripture has been fulfilled in that sense.

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can you share the relevant scripture that refers to a "Cashless society"?

Got a reference for that? Revelation 13 doesn't say anything about cash or cashless

schmendeler said:

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#Mke said:

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Scripture talks about a cashless society. A coin is a form of cash. I wouldn't say scripture has been fulfilled in that sense.

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can you share the relevant scripture that refers to a "Cashless society"?

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Revelation 13 where it talks about the mark of the beast. Not explicit, but implies that no physical cash will be used.

Credit cards are similar, but they aren't part of our physical bodies. Scripture is clear that those with the mark will be able to buy & sell, while those without it will not. It seems We're getting pretty close to the fulfillment of this prophecy with modern technology

My brief recent readings said it would be like the time of Noah, and like the time of Sodam and Gamorah. My interpretation is that it will be a time when God is ignored by most of the Earth so there won't even be many disciples left on Earth when it happens.

#Mke said:

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Tamu_mgm said:

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The only right answer is that no one knows. So it could be, or it couldn't be. Jesus himself said no one has a clue, so live every day to know, love, and serve Him as if it's your last day.

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I hear that response a lot, it's nice but it's not exactly correct. There are many clues throughout the Bible about the End Times. The trueChristians alive in the End Times (if they've read AND understood their Bibles) will know they are in the end. Revelation even mentions certain events and lengths of time (# of days, months, etc.)

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I 100% promise you that no one can accurately predict when the end times / apocalypse is despite clues and allusions to them in the Bible.
"Of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven" (Mt 24. 36).

It's admittedly tempting to think these are the end times because of how they line up with events described in the Bible. However, these events have played out in multiple forms at several different points in History, it's just much more evident today because of the access we have to see and hear it. Again, Jesus himself said no one knows, and I don't say that to spread carelessness. Jesus is exactly correct, which is why now more than ever before in history we need to trust in Jesus, and not in the circumstances going on around us to dictate how we pray to and serve Him.

A lot of preachers claim to have deciphered essentially what is code in the Bible to see when the End times are coming (Pastor Hagee I'm looking at you), but I'll trust the words from Jesus over faulty interpretation of Scripture.

Tamu_mgm said:

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#Mke said:

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Tamu_mgm said:

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The only right answer is that no one knows. So it could be, or it couldn't be. Jesus himself said no one has a clue, so live every day to know, love, and serve Him as if it's your last day.

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I hear that response a lot, it's nice but it's not exactly correct. There are many clues throughout the Bible about the End Times. The trueChristians alive in the End Times (if they've read AND understood their Bibles) will know they are in the end. Revelation even mentions certain events and lengths of time (# of days, months, etc.)

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I 100% promise you that no one can accurately predict when the end times / apocalypse is despite clues and allusions to them in the Bible.
"Of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven" (Mt 24. 36).

It's admittedly tempting to think these are the end times because of how they line up with events described in the Bible. However, these events have played out in multiple forms at several different points in History, it's just much more evident today because of the access we have to see and hear it. Again, Jesus himself said no one knows, and I don't say that to spread carelessness. Jesus is exactly correct, which is why now more than ever before in history we need to trust in Jesus, and not in the circumstances going on around us to dictate how we pray to and serve Him.

A lot of preachers claim to have deciphered essentially what is code in the Bible to see when the End times are coming (Pastor Hagee I'm looking at you), but I'll trust the words from Jesus over faulty interpretation of Scripture.

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Be careful throwing around 100% promises. When one-third of mankind perishes, that will be a pretty LOUD signal that second coming is right around the corner. Will we know the day or the hour? Maybe not. But will we know the broader time frame? I would say very likely. Remember that Armageddon is going to be a real battle that actually takes place. I really don't get why so many Christians act like there won't be signs & that nobody will know even though the Bible literally gives us SO MANY HINTS! The true Christians in the End Times will know! I am confident in saying that!!