k2aggie07 said:

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What is your assertion? That he was an intentional product? Actually say what you are saying.

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It's my experience with conspiracy theorists that they never actually say what they are saying. Mostly because what they are actually saying can be shown to be demonstrably false (see flat earth thread), so they try to be as general as possible to allow themselves some wiggle room.

I think it is pretty clear. To him the RCC is the ***** of Babylon and the root of all evil In the world. From child predation, to the holocaust, to the bilderberg....

How odd that the best known resistance to Hitler and the Third Reich within Germany, the White Rose, was stirred to action largely by Catholic Christian thought :

Learning from the White Rose
By George Weigel - First Things

PacifistAg said:

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k2aggie07 said:

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What is your assertion? That he was an intentional product? Actually say what you are saying.

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It's my experience with conspiracy theorists that they never actually say what they are saying. Mostly because what they are actually saying can be shown to be demonstrably false (see flat earth thread), so they try to be as general as possible to allow themselves some wiggle room.

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When you start from a place of hatred, and form whatever conclusion you wish about the group you wish to hate, it's easy to believe in and support and propagate whatever supports those beliefs.

Uh, Plan -

Perhaps you are totally unfamiliar with a branch of the neo-German paganism branch of Nazism known as the Aryan Christ?

You know, the attempted wholesale replacement of the Catholic Church in Germany?

It is extremely well established that the metaphysical aspects of the NSDAP were pagan.

The fact that some Italian leaders and some E. European leaders brought Catholic - Orthodox practice together with fascist politics - in the CONTEXT of anti-communism - still makes your arguments here quite weak.

The hatred I have for the Catholic church started when I learned about the child abusing clergy and the practice of preventing any criminal prosecution.

"Clericalism explains why widespread abuse has apparently been allowed, and why many have remained silent for years."
- Thomas P. Doyle, Clericalism: Enabler of Clergy Sexual Abuse
Pastoral Psychology, Vol. 54, No. 3, January 2006

From the Dunning Kruger machine.

Abusive priests hated the Church more than you do.

They subjugated their will to demonic (yes, literally) temptation, most of it for sodomy and undue influence over post-pubescent males (this is easily veritable, start with the Sipe reports. Over 90% of abuse).

Won't hear that truth in the media.

Sodomy was also very popular with fascists in 1920 and 1930s Germany, by the way, though Hitler eventually murdered many of that leadership when he felt threatened by their network.

Plan-o-menon said:

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The hatred I have for the Catholic church started when I learned about the child abusing clergy and the practice of preventing any criminal prosecution.

"Clericalism explains why widespread abuse has apparently been allowed, and why many have remained silent for years."
- Thomas P. Doyle, Clericalism: Enabler of Clergy Sexual Abuse
Pastoral Psychology, Vol. 54, No. 3, January 2006

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So how much do you hate the Boy Scouts?
https://time.com/longform/boy-scouts-sex-abuse/?amp=true

Or Baptist?
https://beta.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/02/10/pure-evil-southern-baptist-leaders-condemn-decades-sexual-abuse-revealed-investigation/?outputType=amp

Or teachers?

The Catholic evils in Croatia and Yugoslavia are covered in Avro Manhattan's book "The Vatican's Holocaust" (1986). He describes the Croatian Ustashi terrorizing people into becoming Catholic and exterminating Serbs, and the Vatican rescuing war criminals.


Other books by Avro Manhattan:

The Rumbling of the Apocalypse (1934)
Towards the New Italy (Preface by H.G. Wells) (1943)
Latin America and the Vatican (1946)
The Vatican in Asia (1948)
Religion in Russia (1949)
Murder in the Vatican, American Russian and Papal Plots (1985)
Catholic Terror in Ireland (1988)


The Catholic Church Against the Twentieth Century (1947) https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.101596

Vatican in World Politics (1949) https://ia801608.us.archive.org/10/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.88510/2015.88510.The-Vatican-In-World-Politics.pdf

Catholic Imperialism and World Freedom (1952) https://ia600706.us.archive.org/0/items/CatholicImperialismAndWorldFreedomAvroManhattan_201901/Catholic%20Imperialism%20and%20World%20Freedom%2C%20Avro%20Manhattan.pdf

Terror Over Yugoslavia, the Threat to Europe (1953) https://archive.org/details/TerrorOverYugoslaviaAvroManhattan/page/n2

The Dollar and the Vatican (1956) https://archive.org/details/TheDollarAndTheVaticanAvroManhattanRemastered/

Vatican Imperialism in the Twentieth Century (1965) http://reformation.org/vatican-against-orthodox-church.html

Catholic Power Today (1967) https://ia800904.us.archive.org/4/items/CatholicPowerTodayAvroManhattan1967/Catholic%20Power%20Today%2C%20Avro%20Manhattan%20%281967%29.pdf

The Vatican-Moscow-Washington Alliance (1982) https://ia802906.us.archive.org/17/items/the-vatican-moscow-washington-alliance-avro-manhattan/the-vatican-moscow-washington-alliance-avro-manhattan.pdf

The Vatican Billions (1983) https://ia801907.us.archive.org/11/items/TheVaticanBillions_935/TheVaticanBillions.pdf

Vietnam... Why Did We Go? The Shocking Story of the Catholic "Church's" Role in Starting the Vietnam War (1984) http://www.reformation.org/vietnam.html

The Vatican's Holocaust (1986) http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html

Book burning is a symbol of fascism.

The war against books to set up learning against learning is a Jesuit strategy.

The phrase "learning against learning," comes from Cardinal Thomas Wolsey addressing the pope about the dangers of the printing press to the Church's control. The goal of the Catholic Church became to start a "war against books" as D'Iraeli put it, in the last chapter "War Against Books" in his book Amenities of Literature from 1841.

It is traced to Ignatius Loyola's rules for Jesuits. The grand rule of the Jesuit Order is to make thinking conform with the Catholic Church, elaborated in 18 specific rules. Rule #13: "The thirteenth, and finally, that we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity with the Church herself, if she shall have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appears to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be white. [Autograph, The thirteenth: that we may in all things attain the truth (that we may not err in anything), we ought ever to hold it (as a fixed principle), that what I see white, I believe to be black, if the Hierarchical Church so define it (to be);]" The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola, 1541.

The dastardly Bertrand Russel explains this strategy was embraced by Johann Fichte, who "laid it down that education should aim at destroying free will," and that "the social psychologists of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black."

The blameworthy culprits for setting up learning against learning and waging a war on books are Ignatius Loyola and the "Church Militants" that followed his lead, Thomas Wolsey, Johann Fichte, and Bertrand Russell.

Isaac D'Israeli deserves credit for fighting against the Jesuits.

The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola, 1541, https://archive.org/details/a588350800loyouoft/page/n229

Isaac D'Israeli, Amenities of Literature, 1841, https://archive.org/details/amenitieslitera08disrgoog/page/n434

Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society, 1953, https://archive.org/details/TheImpactOfScienceOnSociety-B.Russell/page/n17

Heinrich Himmler modeled the Nazi SS on the Jesuit Order. The Superior-General from 1915-42, Wlodimir Ledchowski, was very fascist and did what he could to stop opposition to Mussolini. Mussolini had a Jesuit preist as his confessor. The Italian ambassador at the time told Ledchowski that Mussolini wanted the Jesuit Magazine's anti-fascist editor removed and a pro-fascist editor put in his place. Ledchowski accomodated him without hesitation.

The Rothschild and Jewish conspiracy theories come from the Jesuit Order. The real control comes from Rome.

Fascism is a merger of corporate and state power. Financial and military powers are both controlled by Rome and loyal to the Jesuit Papacy.

The Federal Reserve: Jerome Powell 2018-Present, trained at Jesuit University
The Bank of England: Mark Carney 2013-Present, a Catholic trained at a Jesuit University
The European Central Bank: Mario Draghi 2011-Present, a Catholic trained at a Jesuit University

The Roman Catholic Church controls the U.S. military. Examples: the founders of the FBI and CIA were Papal Knights of Malta, the founder of the DIA was trained at a Jesuit University and graduated from seminary school, and the chief of the Strategic Air Command 1957-64 was Papal Knighted in the Order of St. Sylvester.

General Thomas Power's wikipedia article does not mention he was Papal Knighted. He is criticised for giving info to Sovietss during Cuban missle crisis and leading fire bomb raids on Gaum.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_fascism

https://books.google.ca/books?id=I_V5DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA247&lpg=PA247
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/OSS%20-%20SSU%20-%20CIG%20EARLY%20CIA%20DOCUMENTS%20%20%20VOL.%203_0027.pdf
https://archive.org/details/10.230725779031
https://archive.org/details/DavidI.KertzerThePopeAndMussoliniTheSecretHistoryOfPiusXIAndTheRiseOfFascismInEurope2014RandomHouse
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.101596/page/n1

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The Federal Reserve: Jerome Powell 2018-Present, trained at Jesuit University
The Bank of England: Mark Carney 2013-Present, a Catholic trained at a Jesuit University
The European Central Bank: Mario Draghi 2011-Present, a Catholic trained at a Jesuit University

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Jerome Powell
Undergrad: Princeton
Law School: Georgetown

Princeton isn't a Jesuit school, from what I see. And perhaps he went to Georgetown because it's an elite law school, and not so much for the super secret Jesuit conspiracy club.

Mark Carney
Undergrad: Harvard
Masters: St Peters - Oxford
Doctorate: Nuffield - Oxford

I can't find any reference to these being Jesuit schools. Oxford has a Jesuit presence, but I don't believe it's an explicitly Jesuit school, especially considering Catholics were banned from even attending until the late 1800's. Upon further review, the Jesuit presence at Oxford consists of Campion Hall, which is a private institution within Oxford. He didn't attend Campion Hall, from what I can see.

Mario Draghi
Sapienza University
MIT

Neither of these are Jesuit universities, from what I can see. Perhaps I'm overlooking something though. Here's a link to the Jesuit colleges and universities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_educational_institutions#List_of_Jesuit_universities

Quote:

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The Roman Catholic Church controls the U.S. military. Examples: the founders of the FBI and CIA were Papal Knights of Malta, the founder of the DIA was trained at a Jesuit University and graduated from seminary school, and the chief of the Strategic Air Command 1957-64 was Papal Knighted in the Order of St. Sylvester.

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Can you give names for these people? And how are these examples of the military being owned by the RCC? If these people were all Church of Christ members, would the Church of Christ own the military?

All that said, if it was shown that Angel Hernandez (MLB umpire) is a Jesuit, then I'll start buying into the conspiracy theory. Only a global conspiracy to put Jesuits in power could result in that man ever being allowed to ump another baseball game at any level, including tee ball.

PacifistAg said:

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All that said, if it was shown that Angel Hernandez (MLB umpire) is a Jesuit, then I'll start buying into the conspiracy theory. Only a global conspiracy to put Jesuits in power could result in that man ever being allowed to ump another baseball game at any level, including tee ball.

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Arguably the greatest gif ever. Angel probably hates that gif because he can't eject the kid.

Wow! I have never met someone so full of hate towards another group of people (SJ). As Yoda said, hate is the road to the dark side!

If you live around Austin, I would like to extend an invitation from a real Catholic, and a lay Dominican to boot - took my vows in 1999. Just putting that on the table. Meet some real people, I know a Jesuit or two if you want to meet them - and yes, they are wired differently.

We can drink and walk through each of your assertions one at a time. I mean Jesus himself whiffed on Judas right? We call that freewill. But seriously, lets talk.

+Pablo

Uh, I'm assuming that was meant for Plan-o-menon, not me. Right?

"I learned much from the Jesuit Order... Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose on the earth than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party."
Adolf Hitler quoted by Hermann Rauschning, Hitler m'a dit, 1939, p.266

"I can see Himmler as our Ignatius of Loyola"
Adolf Hitler, Libres propos, 1952, p.164

You know the Jesuits were heavily persecuted by the Nazis, right? And that Hitler had disdain for Jesuits?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuits_and_Nazi_Germany

It's funny that if I search for things like "Hitler and Jesuits", or "Nazis and Jesuits", all I get are blogs, conspiracy theory sites, or reddit links.

It also seems odd to fixate on this "connection" when pre-war Germany was majority Protestant.

T&P for your search history and cookies

k2aggie07 said:

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T&P for your search history and cookies

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Yeah I'm a little concerned as to what ads I'm going to start seeing now.

Right PacifistAg, sorry.

Plan-o-menon! Our Pope Francis is a Jesuit, I'm guessing you knew that already. However, if you are a reader, I highly recommend "The Joy of the Gospel" which he wrote. Its a short read, but insightful into how he lives out his spirituality.

+Pablo

PacifistAg said:

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You know the Jesuits were heavily persecuted by the Nazis, right? And that Hitler had disdain for Jesuits?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuits_and_Nazi_Germany

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Went to Germany in 2000. Was invited by a group of nuns, the Schoenstatt Sisters of Mary, who were in the process of designing the shrine and retreat center in Austin, Texas. (Its built! But I had little to do with it.)

One of the things I wanted to understand better, was what Catholic Germans were doing while Hitler was taking over. I visited the museum of the founder, Fr. Joseph Kentinich. An incredible experience! They had a great exhibit showing, side by side, texts from Hitler's "Mien Kampf" and Kintenich's "Heavenwards" which he wrote while a prisoner at Dachau. I had such a burst of artistic insight, that I began to sketch. They had a replica of the concrete box they put him in. My sketches took on a darkness, it was completely not me. I sketch, but not heavy subjects, and certainly not people. I like to sketch buildings, things I can see and touch. Anyhow, I did a couple of sketches that touched upon things that I read in Hitler's own words. Juxtaposed against this was Kintenich's words.. What I came away with was this: Hitler found "evil" in his imprisonment; Kintenich found "love" and a deeper level of God in his prison.

Though I'd share.

+Pablo

"The Pope takes sides with the dictators.

On 30 May 1929, according to Paul Lesourd, Pius XI wrote to Cardinal Gasparri:
"A Catholic state, it is said and repeated, but a Fascist state; We note this without any special difficulty, willingly in fact, for it undoubtedly means that, with regard to ideas and doctrines as well as to practice, the Fascist state will not agree to anything that is not in accordance with Catholic doctrine and practice."

Thus is the collusion between the Church and Fascism established."

from page 75-6 in Edmund Paris' book The Vatican Against Europe, 1964, in the chapter Pius XI Instigates Fascism

This is all I can think about reading this thread

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Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as the Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?
Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, the Vatican, the Gettys, the Rothschilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tets-up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee beady eyes! And that smug look on his face, "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"
Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate the Colonel?
Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly, smartarse!

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So do you actually own or read any the works you are citing? If not could you just point us to the site in which you are getting this drivel your information.

"The Third Reich is the first power which not only recognizes, but which puts into practice the high principles of the Papacy."

Franz von Papen, Papal Chamberlain, Der Voelkischer Beobachter, Jan. 14, 1934

https://archive.org/details/JJMurphyClericalFascismInTheUnitedStates/page/n1

What denomination are you a member of?

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This just in, The Roman Catholic Church has some individuals in its hierarchy that are or were wound up quasi-political cranks!

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We know.

Sincerely,

Every Catholic Ever.

"The Pope has been an open ally of the Nazi-Fascist-Shinto Axis since his enthronement." Herbert Wells

https://archive.org/details/CruxAnsataHerbertGeorgeWells/page/n153

https://instagr.am/p/BzGrQHPpAJA

So do you think Holocaust jokes are funny? Also, what denomination do you belong to?

I'd find a better source than HG Wells and his book about handled cross.
His known anti-Catholic stance as Propaganda Minister for England during WWII for England rose up after leaving that office in this book. His knowledge of Pope Pius XII and his actual anti-Nazis and fascist views are only overshadowed by Wells' complete misunderstanding of the theology of both the Orthodox and the West in which he attempted to use once against the other and got both horribly wrong. He should have stuck to fiction, for if he truly owned a time machine he could have gone back to correct the factual errors throughout. Instead, he should have at least gone to the library and read the history section. As an author, I'm sure he knew how to find it.