Aggrad08 said:

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You aren't reading the bible booboo. The they is his army. Pretending it's alexander the great is stupid
Where does it mention or imply That? Why would god punish the great great great grandchildren of the evil doers and give the actual offenders a great victory? How come the city is rebuilt?

The idea that the verse saying the city will never be rebuilt refers to the afterlife cannot be taken seriously by a thinking person.

Further the entire Egypt prophecy failed. The whole of Ezekiel is one big failed prophecy. When was the Egypt prophecy fullfilled?

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Ok again- lets read the bible again. Let's go over the text. Statement by statement. Try and drop your biases and I will try and drop mine. See the complete text below. Please tell me what Fact I got wrong.

1) FACT the bible says- I will bring many nations against you. You would agree this opens up many possiblities.

2) FACT No timeline is give when these events will occur. This opens up many possiblities. If Jesus fullfills King David prophecy 1000 years later 250 years is nothing from Christian perspective.

3) FACT- it then specifically says I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar (Neb) king of Babylon- FACT- Neb did try and take Tyre, he laid seige to it

4) FACT- it says HE (Neb) will Ravage the MAINLAND. VERY IMPORTANT- HE WILL RAVAGE THE MAINLAND. AGAIN- HE WILL RAVAGE THE MAINLAND!!!!! Can I stress this enough!!!! Please READ The BIBLE!!!!! "He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you"

1) Ezekiel 26:2-14:

"Son of man, because Tyre has said of Jerusalem, 'Aha! The gate to the nations is broken, and its doors have swung open to me; now that she lies in ruins I will prosper,' 3 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the seas casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. 5 Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. She will become plunder for the nations, 6 and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.

7 "For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. 12 They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord."

Aggrad- DID YOU READ THAT- HE WILL RAVAGE THE MAINLAND!!! DID YOU READ THAT!!!!

OK WE ARE NOT DONE YET- PLEASE READ THE BIBLE!!! READ IT!!! Don't gloss over the words, or what you think they said. but read it.

Aggrad,

Fact- the text says HE, HE, HE, HE and then it all of a sudden changes in section 12- "They plunder" THEY will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.

We both agree Neb did not take the island, did not take any booty- and then the text just changes. Ok- maybe you are right, it was speaking of His army? but I find it interesting- it is HE, HE, HE, HE (all the things that his army is doing) and then a They appears? One would think you would keep it all the same HE or they.

Fact- just 3 chapters later. We see Ezekiel confirm this. That Neb did not succeed.

Ezekiel 29:18 20 Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, has made his army wage a hard campaign against Tyre; their heads grew bald, their shoulders rubbed raw, yet neither he nor his army received compensation from Tyre for all the effort they expended against it.

Fact- City of Tyre was destroyed several times (1st time was roughly 250 later by Alexander the great) and rebuilt.

So if you want to say- Ah ha- the city was rebuilt- you got me! the city was rebuilt (although I believe a section is not rebuilt (underwater?, but you would know better than I)

Please tell me where my FACTS On Tyre are wrong. Or Add more FACTS.


We can now go on to Egypt comments.

Aggrad08 said:

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You are being dishonest. Or just dumb. The mainland wasn't even called tyre it was called ushu or later old tyre and was unprotected. All the walls and towers were around the fortified island city. Ushu I was a mainland suburb. Conquering it was meaningless which is why nebuchadnezzar tried at great cost to actually attack tyre.

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1) It was 2600 years ago. So you may be correct on names. Also do not know what the terrain was like. Today, it is all connected - no more island.

2) From studying battles and history. It is common to have multiple defenses, multiple layers. Especially with an island, it would take time to go from mainland to island, even if it was 600 meters off shore?.

Speculation- Some sort of mainland fort/ walls are used to slow down invaders would be logical. Or to repell weaker invaders- not like Neb with large army.

Logically not all the people would not live on the island all the time. As you said, they would rush to the island for protection.

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1) FACT the bible says- I will bring many nations against you. You would agree this opens up many possiblities.

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No I would not. Its a pitiful argument befitting a child. I've told you how stupid this is. If it meant over a 1000 year time period it would say so. Many nations are clearly all under nebuchadnezzars control. The they is very very explicitly his army. You seem to lack the critical thinking to address points. You simply repeated the wrong headed nonsense from page one. There is NO hint of any time break.

If you are writing a prophecy with a huge time break it would make NO sense not to mention it. No one reading that would think of more than one event. Further, and you continually fail to address this, you ignore the context, god is punishing these people, not their far far removed granchildren.

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2) FACT No timeline is give when these events will occur. This opens up many possiblities. If Jesus fullfills King David prophecy 1000 years later 250 years is nothing from Christian perspective.

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No it doesn't. It's very clearly one event. It's not told as a long event or many separate events. It would be written that way if that were the intention. And as I've said over and over again, it was rebuilt!

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3) FACT- it then specifically says I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar (Neb) king of Babylon- FACT- Neb did try and take Tyre, he laid seige to it

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And he failed. Where does it predict his failure? Where would anyone imply a huge time gap? Where does it mention a second attack, a third attack?

And it was rebuilt. You vapid excuse holds no water. No intelligent person would respect your interpretation that never rebuilt means the afterlife.

No objective observer would say that many nations would mean any time period in history and any number of battles when nebuchadnezzar, ruler of the Babylonian empire and commander of many nations is specifically mentioned.

And again, the Entire Egypt prophecy failed.

There is one accurate prediction, nebuchadnezzar would ravage the settlements on the mainland. There were no towers or great gates. It would be undedefended. You are making crap up out of total desperation. And you haven't even tried to defend the Egypt prophecy.

Tyre means tyre. Anyone at the time would think nothing of Ushu.

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Also do not know what the terrain was like. Today, it is all connected - no more island.

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We do know the terrain. We know how when and why it was changed. And tyre fought many battles, we know how they fought.

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2) From studying battles and history. It is common to have multiple defenses, multiple layers. Especially with an island, it would take time to go from mainland to island, even if it was 600 meters off shore?.

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Not true. We don't have to speculate we have recordings of these battles. Many were fought at tyre. Further the typical method was not to waste men on weak defenses but make one strong stand at the castle. This procedure survived well into the middle ages.

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Speculation- Some sort of mainland fort/ walls are used to slow down invaders would be logical. Or to repell weaker invaders- not like Neb with large army.

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You would be a terrible commander. You don't meet larger armies with simple fort fences. Slowing them down is meaningless, you are fighting a multiple year long seige, a day or half day of getting you men killed makes no sense. When tyre is attacked by great armies ushu falls undefended.

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Logically not all the people would not live on the island all the time. As you said, they would rush to the island for protection.

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This is no issue and was standard practice for thousands of years across many cultures. Read the accounts of Alexander's battle, they put up no stand on the mainland.

Aggrad, Stay focused and stick to the facts. Address the hard facts. The minute you add your "opinion", about how a good prophecy should be written you fail. We both agree you and I could of written this passage differently.

Example- Many Nations Passage- could be only talking about Neb (your argument), or it could be talking about many foes and nations.

Example- No timeline- means it could happen whenever. Yet you say there was a clear timeline.

In both of these instances, your position is weakend by the FACT that 3 chapters later Ezekiel says Neb did not TAKE Tyre.

Question- WHEN DO YOU THINK TYRE was going to FALL? Ezekiel says Neb did not take it? So when and who will take it? Seems to me you want to gloss over this FACT that Ezekiel says Neb did not take it. then you blame Neb for not taking the island of Tyre.

So even though you don't like it, and we both agree the passages could of been written differently - 250 years later Alexander took it. "many nations" and timing work- because No timeline was given.

Aggrad,

You being a bible expert, will remember from reading the bible. There are many passages about things are done on God's time (Jesus 1000 years example)

1) Habakkuk 2 2-3 Then the LORD answered me and said: Write down the vision Clearly upon the tablets, so that one can read it readily. For the vision still has its time, presses on to fulfillment, and will not disappoint; If it delays, wait for it, it will surely come, it will not be late.

My comments- First time I read that verse I totally missed it, but I actually love it. In a summary, it is saying, I am God and I know what I am doing. I liken it to a parent telling a little child to wait, when they don't want to. Or a kid asking why and the parent saying, because I said so. In short, God knows what he is doing.

2) A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. Psalm 90:4

Catching a flight to DC area, will respond later.

Booboo.if you aren't even going to address the points I'm going to stop bothering with you. Learn to at least understand the arguments.

Where does.many nations imply any nations not controlled by nebuchadnezzar? Show me. Explain why god is giving a great victory to the people he is angry with and a great defeat to his great grandchildren. Explain why anyone prophesizing a huge time gap would write the prophecy this way.

I am sticking facts you are speculating and just making things up.

We will do this like dwight shrute

Fact. The bible clearly unequivocally stated that tyre will be destroyed and never rebuilt. It's not talking about the afterlife, you cannot rebuild tyre in the afterlife.

This did not happen.

Fact. The bible says nebuchadnezzar will destroy the gates and towers. This did not happen, your speculation about the mainland is false and I'll informed.

Fact. Nebuchadnezzar failed in his invasion of Egypt and was defeated by amasis II. Every single item of the Egyptian prophecy failed to come to pass. And that one doesn't even let you trybthe obvious many nations =any time in history lie.

This reminds me of a documentary I watched of some Christian sect who predicted the exact time and day the world would end. They were on camera when that time came and passed with nothing happening and what do you think their reaction was? To celebrate that the prophecy had been fulfilled. It sounds silly but that is how the faithful treat prophecy. If you start with the assumption that all prophecy must be true then a prophecy can never fail, it must simply be misunderstood. Therefore trying to point out examples of failed prophecy is a pointless exercise for some people.

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Example- Many Nations Passage- could be only talking about Neb (your argument), or it could be talking about many foes and nations.

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That s not implied in context. If they were talking about a gap it would read, "nebuchadnezzar will attack the mainland and destroy defenseless settlements. His attack will fail on the city after a long siege. Many years later I will punish the great great grandchildren with a defeat from another great leader. The city will be rebuilt many times."

It doesn't say that. It doesn't imply that. It didn't happen.

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Example- No timeline- means it could happen whenever.

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Not when it explicity mentions nebuchadnezzar. Not when it explicitly mentions this is because he's angry with the people alive at the time. Not when it fails to mention or imply a gap it makes no sense.and even If I granted that alexander was mentioned for no reason the city was rebuilt.

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In both of these instances, your position is weakend by the FACT that 3 chapters later Ezekiel says Neb did not TAKE Tyre.

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Yes he lived to see his own prediction fail. Once again why doesn't it mention after he fails to take tyre that tyre will later fall. Why does it say it will never be rebuilt.

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Question- WHEN DO YOU THINK TYRE was going to FALL? Ezekiel says Neb did not take it? So when and who will take it? Seems to me you want to gloss over this FACT that Ezekiel says Neb did not take it. then you blame Neb for not taking the

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I'm not. And you keep glossing over everything or just making stuff up. Ezekiel acknowledges the failure, that's why he then states he's going to take Egypt. That also failed spectacularly. The true irony is the author doesn't even treat his words as infallible truth the way you do. Even your fellow Christians in the thread acknowledges this prophecy obviously failed and the author knew it.

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So even though you don't like it, and we both agree the passages could of been written differently - 250 years later Alexander took it. "many nations" and timing work- because No timeline was given.

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No I don't agree. I think this is a stupid excuse born of poor understanding and desperation. Further I see that it fails either way.

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Failed prophecies, lack of historical accuracy, evolution, bad morals etc. are very obviously only issues for people who like to pretend it's the perfect word of God dictated via miraculous inspiration. Which is in fact a huge percentage of Christians.

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I'm confused. I believe the Bible was divinely inspired. Even completely within a sola scriptura framework, prophecies of wrath can go unfulfilled. Mercy in the face of repentence is implied in every prophecy of wrath, and clear examples are given in the chapters I referenced. Therefore unfulfilled prophecies of wrath should be no big deal. We have two clear examples of unfulfilled prophecies of wrath in the Bible itself, Jonah and David.

There is no repentance here stated or implied. Also the two verses you quoted do not make clear distinctions between prophecies of wrath and prophecies of peace as going unfulfilled. One only mentions the distinction that an accurate prediction of peace as more meaningful. The other isn't about that but false prophets. For this reason the absurd defense of the prophecies accuracy exists.

It's completely unsupportable to ignore all failed prophecies of destruction because of someone "must have" repented. And the supposed perfection of the Bible is hardly defended by such a distinction. As there are failed prophecies of peace, failures of historical accuracy, failures of science and morals all the same. Disproving a perfect Bible is a trivial exercise. Disproving divinely inspired is really up to how closely you mean to argue God's intervention is and to what extent he allows error.

Failed prophecies exist in many religions, including Christianity. They survive just as bad history survives in religious texts. This same line of thinking applies to wrong history and failed prophecies in Mormonism and Islam as well. "wouldn't they just redact them out"

Not that the delusions mentioned by rocag and argued by Booboo aren't proof enough that people will believe anything blindly. You can look on the Internet right now for sad arguments about how tyre isn't really rebuilt since it's not Castle anymore. In this particular instance, the most credible reason I've seen for why this verse wasn't redacted out isn't because obviously prophecies of wrath aren't a big deal when wrong, but that the very nature of prophecy and prophetic claims of the time period are extremely different than modern evangelical understanding and argumentation.

It seems like for the prophecy to be correct, you have to really parse the grammar, assume additional events occurred that are not alluded to in the text, and selectively interpret concrete language as allegory. With that many loopholes allowed, you can interpret it to match pretty much anything that happens. What's the value in that kind of "prophecy?"

And even with all that, the Egypt prophecy is even worse

Aggrad,

Have a moment to respond on buisness trip. We will get to Egypt, Lets finish up with Tyre.

Part of your problem is you want the Prophecy written like a science/history book, but it is written more like history/poetry. So don't gloss over the clues. Also got to Read the entire story.

Here is one example- you claimed it was "clear it was one campaign" and yet we know- Neb did not take the city- Ezekiel tells us this. So stop and think logically for a minute. This is a religous book. written by a believer. That God's will, will be done. At some point in time, it will happen. See Habbakuk quote- just wait, it will happen. Example- Jesus 1000 years later

Now notice this little clue. O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the seas casting up its WAVES.

Did you see that? Waves of invaders. Not one wave, but waves, multiple invasions. Wow pretty good historical, prophecy,poetry.

So let's review Tyre: Ezekiel (Zeke)
1) Said Tyre will be destroyed- this is true
2) Said Mulitple Nations will invade in waves- this is true
3) Said Neb will invade mainland- this is true
4) Said Neb did not take the island- booty (hinted at)- this is true
5) Said the Tyre city will not be rebuilt- this all false or partially false- speculation me parts not rebuilt, in sea?, huge city there now. Was an island is now a pensula.

Seems to me you owe Zeke an apology- at least on Tyre. Few more comments on Tyre and we can move on to Egypt

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Part of your problem is you want the Prophecy written like a science/history book, but it is written more like history/poetry. So don't gloss over the clues. Also got to Read the entire story.

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Those aren't clues. You are making crap up, with this loose an interpretation nothing could be found false. And you still arent addressing why god would punish the great great grandchildren while giving the offenders a great victory. I'm serious booboo if you don't address this point you continually cower from im done with you.

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Here is one example- you claimed it was "clear it was one campaign" and yet we know- Neb did not take the city- Ezekiel tells us this. So stop and think logically for a minute. This is a religous book. written by a believer. That God's will, will be done. At some point in time, it will happen. See Habbakuk quote- just wait, it will happen. Example- Jesus 1000 years later

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And it was not, that the point booboo. Nebuchadnezzars failed at tyre and he failed at Egypt and the city was rebuilt.

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Now notice this little clue. O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the seas casting up its WAVES.

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Yes and the next ****ing verse clarifies that the many nations are those commanded by nebuchadnezzar. Why doesnt it mention a gap. Why does it punishbthr wrong people?

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Did you see that? Waves of invaders. Not one wave, but waves, multiple invasions. Wow pretty good historical, prophecy,poetry.

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Wow. Wow? You just took waves (which is how any single siege would be fought to mean hundreds of years When it's not mentioned implied and punishes the wrong people.

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1) Said Tyre will be destroyed- this is true

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It said nebuchadnezzar would would knock down his walls and towers. I already showed you your claim that this could mean the mainland is absurd. You keep pretending when I debunk your claims that it never happened. Address the points or stop posting things I debunk.

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2) Said Mulitple Nations will invade in waves- this is true

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It is, but it happened over many months not hundreds of years.

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3) Said Neb will invade mainland- this is true

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Yup, and the only thing.

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4) Said Neb did not take the island- booty (hinted at)- this is true

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Come on booboo. I'm done with your nonsense. It says this after the prophecy not before. The prophecy gives no clue at failure. No one reading that prophecy could imagine failure.

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5) Said the Tyre city will not be rebuilt- this all false or partially false- speculation me parts not rebuilt, in sea?, huge city there now. Was an island is now a pensula.

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I know I've been saying this over and over. A small corner that was never within the city walls is underwater that gets you nothing. The peninsula just filled in a small piece of ocean that was not part of The city or mainland, that gets you nothing. The rest is fully rebuilt. Right here even you of all people admit the tyre prophecy fails. So why are you bothering me?

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Seems to me you owe Zeke an apology- at least on Tyre. Few more comments on Tyre and we can move on to Egypt

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Are you a crazy person? You just put forth nonsense thats been rebuked for three pages without you addressing any single point and then admit it fails. Why would I owe him an apology when you admit he's wrong on the most obvious point. And no objective adult human being would believe your many nations aren't the ones controlled by nebuchadnezzar. Even still, IT FAILED.

So yes, let's move on to Egypt which failed utterly as well.

Ulrich said:

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It seems like for the prophecy to be correct, you have to really parse the grammar, assume additional events occurred that are not alluded to in the text, and selectively interpret concrete language as allegory. With that many loopholes allowed, you can interpret it to match pretty much anything that happens. What's the value in that kind of "prophecy?"

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continued self-delusion

My favorite thing about booboo is that he's so committed but even his fellow believers make no effort to defend the positions he takes. They know that even from a Christian standpoint he's a whackadoodle. Nobody from any side of the spectrum finds his arguments intelligent or compelling but he marches on nevertheless as if he has a window to the "fullness of truth."

Aggrad,

Sorry- busy at work, jumping on a plane and will respond to your many comments.

Also- I am not making crap up. I am looking closely at the text, which provides the clues. So again- lets read the bible, lets read all of Ezekiel (there was a reason the book was written, there is a style the author has), lets read what the text says.

We fail- when we don't read, when we gloss over, when we add our own comments on what a good prophecy should of had.

Quadratic said:

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My favorite thing about booboo is that he's so committed but even his fellow believers make no effort to defend the positions he takes. They know that even from a Christian standpoint he's a whackadoodle. Nobody from any side of the spectrum finds his arguments intelligent or compelling but he marches on nevertheless as if he has a window to the "fullness of truth."

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Quadratic,

Or whatever your name is? Why do you keep changing your name every other post?

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Also- I am not making crap up. I am looking closely at the text, which provides the clues. So again- lets read the bible, lets read all of Ezekiel (there was a reason the book was written, there is a style the author has), lets read what the text says.

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But you aren't looking closely or thoughtfully. You ignore context, assume facts not mentioned and blatantly ignore other facts mentioned. Either specifically address the points I'm making or stop wasting my time. I know this better than you, you aren't presenting anything new but the same tired excuses I've discredited many times before. Bustupp tried these same arguments almost verbatim, he was at least smart enough to realize they failed. I've done this same back and forth many times. The only person as blind as you has been fairaint. Everyone else has quickly understood their own absurdity.

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We fail- when we don't read, when we gloss over, when we add our own comments on what a good prophecy should of had.

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No Booboo we fail when we lie to ourselves, when we add in facts not mentioned or implied and are contrary to context and logic. When we make up facts (like there being great walls and towers on the mainland). And when we make pitifully lame excuses. "never rebuilt" means afterlife. No intelligent person looking objectively would agree with a single one of your points. We could take this to a group of Muslims or Hindus and they would laugh you out of the room.

And for the 12th damn time it wouldn't matter as it still fails WITH your excuses. Tyre is still rebuilt, Egypt was never conquered. Why are you wasting my time? There is nothing you can even twist to make the prophecy true.

I've read through this entire thread and I still can figure out what any of this has to do with a Dallas Cowboys running back.

Aggrad, Thanks for your patience. Finally have some time. will answer your questions/ challenges. Starting from back moving forward.

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No I would not. Its a pitiful argument befitting a child. I've told you how stupid this is. If it meant over a 1000 year time period it would say so. Many nations are clearly all under nebuchadnezzars control. The they is very very explicitly his army. You seem to lack the critical thinking to address points. You simply repeated the wrong headed nonsense from page one. There is NO hint of any time break.

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1) If it meant over a 1000 year time period it would say so Response- You make this claim, then don't back it up. Why does there need to be a timeline? Based on what evidence do you have other than you (Aggrad) would like a timeline? Your opinion there should be one. You know the old comments about our opinions- everyone has one, like A-holes- they mean nothing. Answer- there does not need to be a timeline.

• Gotta read earlier in book of Ezekiel there are no timelines given prophecies to Ammon, Moab, Edom, Philistnes, Tyre, Egypt and also Israel? No timeline given!!!! Question- so why does there need to be a timeline with Tyre when the other nations that were also warned have no timeline? Answer- No timelines are required.
• Logic- Ezekiel is making all these proclamations against all these nations? Do you think they will instantly happen immediately? No, it will take time.
• As I pointed out earlier, note this is not opinion but what the text says. Ezekiel 26:3 O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the seas casting up its WAVES. Are waves single or plural (sarcasm)? Logic God sends many nations waves of invaders over and over, like waves of the sea.
• Logic- this is religious book, written for a reason. Ezekiel author is religious. He believes God's will, will be done. It may take time, but it will be done. And we see in Ezekiel 29 18 Neb did not take Tyre. Note: This bible verse total kills your argument.

2) There is no hint of a time break. There absolutely is! Ezekiel 29:18! Neb did not take Tyre and God's will will be done.

3) The Many nations are clearly under Neb control? Again- same question- based on what evidence? Give me something, other than your opinion.

Side comment- We agree Alexander name is not mentioned in Ezekiel, But Alexander fulfills the prophecy 250 years later in 332 BC. He destroyed the city, kills everyone- the folks around the world- said Damm! City rebuilt roughly 250 years later by Romans.




Basic Bible concept- God's will, will be done. It will happen. As in the Habbakuk quote- be patient just wait for it.

Dr. Watson said:

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As has been noted many times before, Alexander does not match the prophecy nor was it written for some unknown individual centuries later to fulfill. Keep grasping.

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Please provide evidence. Why does Alexander not match the prophecy?

booboo91 said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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As has been noted many times before, Alexander does not match the prophecy nor was it written for some unknown individual centuries later to fulfill. Keep grasping.

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Please provide evidence. Why does Alexander not match the prophecy?

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You need me to provide the evidence that the prophecy was specifically about Nebuchadnezzar? Ok. Go back a few posts and see the litany of explanations about how it's referring specifically to Nebuchadnezzar and not some random dude in a few centuries. Further, let's examine how Alexander did not completely destroy the city or do anything predicted in the prophecy. Tyre still stood after Alexander.

Aggrad,

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If you are writing a prophecy with a huge time break it would make NO sense not to mention it. No one reading that would think of more than one event. Further, and you continually fail to address this, you ignore the context, god is punishing these people, not their far far removed grandchildren

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This is a good question. Answer- And as a former Christian, you should know the answer. Remember this is a religious book. Common Bible theme Repent and change your ways, turn to God and be saved. We all know that sin affects us all. WW2- sins of Hitler affected entire nation, Civil War- Slavery, Bad father affects kids and they teach the bad behavior to their kids. And we see Original sin, Fall of Adam (affects us all- today). Sins of the father affecting the children and future generations Exodus 34 7 yet not declaring the guilty guiltless, but punishing children and grandchildren to the third and fourth generation for their fathers' wickedness!" Note: Generation was 40 years.

• The key with everyone is Repentance! Repent or be destroyed. See Story of Jonah and the evil city of Nineveh. If you don't repent there are consequences. And this is the message Ezekiel is broadcasting. Please read Ezekiel Chapter 18 which is on Repentance. Father needs to repent, the son needs to be repent. If you repent you are good.

Ezekiel 18.29 32 .29But the house of Israel says, "The Lord's way is not fair!" Is it my way that is not fair, house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not fair?30Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, all of you according to your ways oracle of the Lord GOD. Turn, turn back from all your crimes, that they may not be a cause of sin for you ever again.31Cast away from you all the crimes you have committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel?32 For I find no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies oracle of the Lord GOD. Turn back and live!

• This is a few verses later in chapter 26 on city of Tyre. Certainly sounds like Hell. Justice will be served. TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR- justice is served whether your city is destroyed or not. This writing has a literal prophecy (city destroyed, people die) and spiritual - you go to hell.

Ezekiel 26 19-20 Indeed thus says the Lord GOD: When I make you a ruined city like cities no longer inhabited, When I churn up the deep and its mighty waters cover you, Then I will thrust you down with those who go down to the pit, to those of the bygone age; I will make you dwell in the netherworld, in the everlasting ruins, with those who have gone down to the pit, So you will never return or have a place in the land of the living.

Dr. Watson said:

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You need me to provide the evidence that the prophecy was specifically about Nebuchadnezzar? Ok. Go back a few posts and see the litany of explanations about how it's referring specifically to Nebuchadnezzar and not some random dude in a few centuries. Further, let's examine how Alexander did not completely destroy the city or do anything predicted in the prophecy. Tyre still stood after Alexander.

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1) Yes please provide evidence. Just Assume I am slow and point out the text- because that is really what we are analyzing is what was written down. Note: it is ok to read the bible, will be good for you.

2) Also Alexander did a number on Tyre roughly destroyed 332 and rebuilt 60s by Romans. Note: this is part of prophecy that appears to be wrong. Tyre was eventually rebuilt after it was destroyed few times.

Today the island is gone, it is a peninsula. Speculation that parts of the city are under water, not rebuilt

Aggrad,

1) We can debate how the Jewish understanding of Hell developed over time. But there was always Justice and punishment- Consequences of sin, of our actions. So if you do bad things God will eventually get you.

Hypothetical- You have the same problem even if Neb conquered Tyre after 13 year siege and it was not 250 years later. Let's assume a bad guy dies right before the city falls? Does he get off scott free? Answer- No

2) Is it fair that the northern kingdom fell in 722 BC and the Southern Kingdom fell- 587 BC. 135 years later? When the prophets were telling both to repent and change their ways? Per Ezekiel's comments the Lord is fair.

The solution back then as it is today- roughly 2600 years later Ezekiel 18 32 For I find no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies oracle of the Lord GOD. Turn back and live!

Aggrad

Quote:

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You would be a terrible commander. You don't meet larger armies with simple fort fences. Slowing them down is meaningless, you are fighting a multiple year long seige, a day or half day of getting you men killed makes no sense. When tyre is attacked by great armies ushu falls undefended. This is no issue and was standard practice for thousands of years across many cultures. Read the accounts of Alexander's battle, they put up no stand on the mainland

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1) You would be a terrible commander- Will let you know back in the day used to play some good games of Risk and Stratego

2) You said the key word- Larger armies. What about small and midsize armies? Would think over time Tyre would see adversaries in all shapes and sizes? Think of Aggie football- we do not play Alabama for every game, we have a few cupcakes and equal challenges in there. Why let them wreck your mainland city? If with a little effort you could ward them off.

Note: Maybe you are right and there was absolutely no defenses on the mainland. I would think there would be some defenses around this city, but I have not seen many details on what the mainland city looked like and the terrain 2600 years ago. Also heard Alexander used all the materials of the mainland city to make his land bridge and the island is no more, changed to *****ula.

3) Agreed, the mainland city put up no fight against Alexander and the island city of Tyre did their best to appease him. Should of let him worship inside as he requested. Hindsight is 20/20.

But also notice with Alexander conquest account- why were there people on the mainland city? Why wasn't everyone at the island? Note: if I was at the mainland city, and was not allowed on island, would want to have some way to defend myself (maybe add some walls and defenses).

Dr. Watson said:

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Nice to see you justify the slaughter of people who had nothing to do with the original prophecy by appealing to damnation.

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Watson,

Pick up bible and read. Will be good for you. Bible 101- Repent and change your ways.

Ezekiel 18 32 For I find no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies oracle of the Lord GOD. Turn back and live!