Interesting, since he never went out of His way for any gentile.

Except St Photini at the well? Or healing the centurion's servant? The gentile region in mark 5? The Samaritan city in John 4?

He died for all. (1 John 2:2).

agie95 said:

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Their god is not a god...made up in the mind of one person and then many were killed unless they joined....oh wait Christianity killed in the name of their god as well. Hmmm.

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Abraham says, "Hi."

Marco Esquandolas said:

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K2, it's no use. He has decided he hates Christianity and he cares little for anyone who isn't Jewish. He apparently cannot comprehend the meaning of the Samaritan story.

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When we drove down to the Jordan Valley, we passed by a sign for the road that would have been used in the Samaritan story. He said he stopped one time as they were building the Museum of the Good Samaritan and spoke with a soldier. Asked him about the story, which the soldier was able to recite w/ no problem. Then the guide said he asked the soldier if he could think of any current times application of that story here in Israel. He said the soldier couldn't come up with anything.

It kind of reflects what the settler w/ the Roots organization had told us about viewing Palestinians as background scenery in a movie. I think for so many, on both sides, they are so isolated from the other side that they simply cannot connect the dots on stuff like that. The live next to each other but often don't realize the other exists.

Simon bar Kokhba


Menachem Mendel Schneerson

Many within the Breslev movement still believe Schneerson was and is the messiah. Even though others disagree, Breslev is still considered Jewish by essentially all Jews. Simon bar Kokhba was considered the messiah at one time and all those who did were considered Jews. Lastly, thousands upon thousands of Jews accepted Yeshua as the Messiah and all of them were still considered Jews.

12 disciples
Paul
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:47 - And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Acts 4:4 5000 men who were Jews - But many of those who had heard the message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.
Acts 21:20 - And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the Torah:

All of those were Jews. This was all within Judaism. They were zealous for the Torah!

You are right Jesus is a false Messiah. He is a blue-eyed long hair messiah that Christians created.

It is not murder when one is protecting oneself. All this is happening b/c they, the Palestinians started the 6 day war and have continued there same practices. Why was Israel given back their land or at least a portion of it? Let's not forget the history of the Jews. Since AD 70, more Jews have been killed than any other nationality. More Jews have been abused, forced to move, forced to give all their belongings, not allowed to move here or there. All this b/c time after time, people were anti-semitic. This anti-semitism continues today.

The land of Israel was basically a wasteland for approx. 1800 years prior to Jews starting to move back. Basically no rain. Why? Prophecy

Deuteronomy 28:23-24 - "And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. "Hashem shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed."

k2aggie07 said:

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Except St Photini at the well? Or healing the centurion's servant? The gentile region in mark 5? The Samaritan city in John 4?

He died for all. (1 John 2:2).

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I said He didn't go out of His way to help any of them. In any of those cases, did He tell his disciples to care for these gentiles? Nope. Did He tell them to take up a campaign for these people? Nope. In fact, at one point He told them not to go out to the Gentiles.

He died for all, but not all will be saved.

God was around long before Abraham. God was known by many people prior to Abraham.

Dr. Watson said:

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wbt5845 said:

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The people who call themselves "Palestinians" are just Arabs - or more specifically Jordanians and Egyptians (and their descendants) who live on land that is now part of Israel.

If there was, or ever had been, a nation called "Palestine", citizens of that country could rightfully be called "Palestinians". But our nation does not, nor ever has recognize a nation by that name, so I don't either.

HTH

BTW - I don't reply to try and change your mind. I just reply to make sure other readers get a clear picture of why the IDF does what it does and where blame for the present situation lies. There are two sides to every story.

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Saying the modern state of Israel is analogous to the Biblical kingdom is equally silly.

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I agree. which is why i never said any such thing.

agie95 said:

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God was around long before Abraham. God was known by many people prior to Abraham.

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God was around long before Muhammad. God was known to many people prior to Muhammad.

God was around long before Zoroastor. God was known to many people prior to Zoroastor.

And so on.

You are the one who said hello Abraham. You basically said nothing.

agie95 said:

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You are the one who said hello Abraham. You basically said nothing.

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Wow. I didn't realize a point that basic could sail over your head. But it did.

What was the point that I did not get?

Then I did get it and responded appropriately. Other men did God speak to....Adam, Cain, Abel, Noah, Melchizedek etc

agie95 said:

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You are right Jesus is a false Messiah. He is a blue-eyed long hair messiah that Christians created.

It is not murder when one is protecting oneself. All this is happening b/c they, the Palestinians started the 6 day war and have continued there same practices. Why was Israel given back their land or at least a portion of it? Let's not forget the history of the Jews. Since AD 70, more Jews have been killed than any other nationality. More Jews have been abused, forced to move, forced to give all their belongings, not allowed to move here or there. All this b/c time after time, people were anti-semitic. This anti-semitism continues today.

The land of Israel was basically a wasteland for approx. 1800 years prior to Jews starting to move back. Basically no rain. Why? Prophecy

Deuteronomy 28:23-24 - "And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. "Hashem shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed."

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1) I would absolutely disagree. Jesus is fullfillment of OT. He is the Messiah. Question- from scripture- what do you disagree with what Jesus said and did?

2) I agree- don't think Jesus had blue eyes. His eye color is not mentioned. Believe he would somewhat look like the people from that region today. Artists have drawn Jesus in many various ways.

3) The complex and deep rooted problem in the middle east can only be solved in 2 ways: #1 One side completely wiping out the other side. #2- Through changing of hearts- through love, prayer, God's grace- Trusing in God.

4) I heavily lean toward the Israel side- 80/20 (realizing there are flaws on both sides). I believe what Dennis Prager (Conservative, Jewish talk show host) says- if israel laid down their arms today, they would be wiped out in matter of days, by their enemies. If the Arabs/Palestinans/ Muslims in surrounding areas laid down their weapons we would have peace.

commando2004 said:

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Dr. Watson said:

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agie95 said:

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What was the point that I did not get?

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You're denigrating other religions without acknowledging that yours can be defined in the exact same terms and has the same truth claims without any more concrete proof than those faiths have.

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You're ignoring that the Quran makes the exact same claim about the ownership of the Land of Israel that the Torah does.

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Conditionally, depending on their relationship with Allah.

Quote:

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Many within the Breslev movement still believe Schneerson was and is the messiah. Even though others disagree, Breslev is still considered Jewish by essentially all Jews. Simon bar Kokhba was considered the messiah at one time and all those who did were considered Jews. Lastly, thousands upon thousands of Jews accepted Yeshua as the Messiah and all of them were still considered Jews.

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Neither of those men was the messiah, nor did they openly claim to be. Neither made any claims of divinity either. Some jews wrongly thought them so, but by deeds and by hope, not by words.

Quote:

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You are right Jesus is a false Messiah. He is a blue-eyed long hair messiah that Christians created

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The blond hair and blue eyes was the doing of Christians in europe. The idea that he was a messiah was his own doing, something he taught. His hints at a divine nature were also his doing. Neither of the men you posted above are comparable in this respect. C.S. lewis was almost right, he was either a liar, a loon, a legend, some combo of the first three, or the messiah.

Quote:

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It is not murder when one is protecting oneself. All this is happening b/c they, the Palestinians started the 6 day war and have continued there same practices.

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It's not self defense in very many instances, which you continually fail to address or lack the intellectual capacity to see. A war that happened decades ago is no excuse for self defense in the now. It's boldly irrational to claim such a thing. There are many actions taken by the jews that are not justifiable from a self defense standpoint. Many actions taken against complete innocents that were not merely collateral damage and did not facilitate their protection.

Quote:

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The land of Israel was basically a wasteland for approx. 1800 years prior to Jews starting to move back. Basically no rain. Why? Prophecy

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Lol. Do you really think weather patterns changed in 1945? Really? Show me the weather data.

Quote:

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Deuteronomy 28:23-24 - "And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. "Hashem shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed."

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Just one of many failed prophecies in the bible. Just like the failed prophecies in Ezekiel about the destruction of tyre or Nebuchadnezzar's invasion of Egypt, the bibles prophecies have often been disproven by reality. Just like the failed prophecy of your "yeshua" returning in the lifetime of his followers. These literal interpretations have been disproven. Just like the literal history of the exodus and conquest you are relying on for your current beliefs (even if poorly thought) when we know a literal interpretation cannot be reconciled with reality.

Arsonist have attacked Israel. Sorry can't link, but this will definitely not help the situation.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN13J0YJ

Just curious as to what you think the answer is?

I condemn the actions of Israel here, as well.

However, both sides are active participants in this problem.

I do have a problem with the use of terms like "ethnic cleansing" here. This is a term that was used to describe atrocities in Kosovo and Sudan, which included episodes of mass murder. Yes, the Jews are systematically forcing people to move out of their homes, and trying very hard to do that without killing people. This is very different than the atrocities at Kosovo and Sudan. I think that using "ethnic cleansing" and similar terms borders on propaganda.

The Arabs are angry at the settlements, and do stupid things like support violent groups that actively try to kill Israelis.

The whole thing is a hot mess. Deep seated hatred exists on both sides.

I am not sure what the answer here is. Neither side is willing to give an inch. Neither side is very supportive of peace. The most important thing to both sides is ownership of land, which both sides consider sacred, and the Arabs conceded to the Jews after losing a war.

I don't think we should be supporting Israeli action here, but we surely should not ignore the Palestinian attacks, either. When Muslims came over to our house and started killing people, we launched a $trillion war that has lasted over a decade. For us to claim that Israel should take the high-road and not react harshly to the violence seems a bit hypocritical to me.

This violence is supported financially by neighboring Arab nations that simply don't like Jews. To ignore this detail is hiding your head in the sand.

Such a tragedy. So much hate.

BTW - I help design weapon systems used by the IDF to protect the nation of Israel. I love my job and am proud to be able to play some small part in protecting the people of Israel.

BusterAg said:

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I do have a problem with the use of terms like "ethnic cleansing" here. This is a term that was used to describe atrocities in Kosovo and Sudan, which included episodes of mass murder. Yes, the Jews are systematically forcing people to move out of their homes, and trying very hard to do that without killing people. This is very different than the atrocities at Kosovo and Sudan. I think that using "ethnic cleansing" and similar terms borders on propaganda.

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Perhaps a better analogy would be the expulsion of Germans from their former eastern territories after WW2.

commando2004 said:

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BusterAg said:

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I do have a problem with the use of terms like "ethnic cleansing" here. This is a term that was used to describe atrocities in Kosovo and Sudan, which included episodes of mass murder. Yes, the Jews are systematically forcing people to move out of their homes, and trying very hard to do that without killing people. This is very different than the atrocities at Kosovo and Sudan. I think that using "ethnic cleansing" and similar terms borders on propaganda.

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Perhaps a better analogy would be the expulsion of Germans from their former eastern territories after WW2.

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Even those actions caused more than 1/2 million deaths.

As Retired has documented above, Israel tries very hard to accomplish its goals without killing people. This is likely totally selfish, as deaths are what causes the quickest loss of support.

Israel has all the power here, and they bully the Palestinians quite a bit, but are not out to exterminate them. I think that the term "ethnic cleansing" here, in particular, is misused.

Aggrad08 said:

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Just because the Saudis are animals doesn't mean the Israelis aren't. The response from Israel is completely disproportionate and actually facilitates radicalism through desperation. They commit murder and atrocities against innocent in the "self defense". If this was just self defense no one would have an issue.

If not for fundamentalist evangelical support (not even Jewish support mind you) we'd get a much more even description of the events over there just like you do with other news outlets around the world.

It's a weak defense, and to make it weaker they claim antisemitism. As if you have to harbor ethnic hate to hate oppression.

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The standard sh*tty defense for Israel is "but hey look at these other Muslims over here being terrible! that totally justifies it!"

Maybe they don't want to exterminate them. They just want them to be gone from their land, and if that means they die, they die.

This "cleansing" is happening on religious lines -- which, oddly enough, are also ethnic. (The Greek word for Gentiles used in the NT is "Of the [other] nations" -- literally ethnos).

Ethnic cleansing is perhaps the most accurate way possible to describe the purification of a certain area of gentiles.

k2aggie07 said:

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Maybe they don't want to exterminate them. They just want them to be gone from their land, and if that means they die, they die.

This "cleansing" is happening on religious lines -- which, oddly enough, are also ethnic. (The Greek word for Gentiles used in the NT is "Of the [other] nations" -- literally ethnos).

Ethnic cleansing is perhaps the most accurate way possible to describe the purification of a certain area of gentiles.

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Probably an effect of Judaism being a more unified ethno-religious identity rather than solely one or the other.

canadiaggie said:

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wbt5845 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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wbt5845 said:

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When you start a war and lose, there are consequences.

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Ah, so you believe in moral relativism? Got it. Might makes right. Losing a war 50 years ago means you can be oppressed today.

Thanks for clarifying. Committing war crimes today is justified because they won a war 50 years ago.

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Use whatever phrases you like.

Israel rules that land. They rule it because Jordan lost the Six Day War.

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The holocaust would have been cool if Germany won World War 2?

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If the Jews were really like Nazis, there wouldn't be millions of "Palestinians" living as citizens of Israel and representing in the Knesset. The comparisons of Israel to Nazi Germany continues to be laughable.