The Jews have a distorted view of God? Lol, Christians have a distorted view of God. They are the ones who created a religion that uses a text that states nothing of a messiah coming to start a new religion. If Yeshua walked the earth today, He would still be a Jew (religiously speaking).

Why the person existed, he was no god. There Buddha is a pagan god that never existed. Champ.

agie95 said:

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The problem is that is not their land. God gave that land to the Jews, not the Palestinians.

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Lol. And we finally get to the root of the stupidity. The might makes right bs, childish as it was, was merely an excuse. Apartheid is ok because the Bible says it's Jewish land.

And the Bible says lots of things we know aren't true.

Which is my point. Jews and Muslims are the same in that they're not Christians. Why support one side blindly?

The UN existed in 1500BC?

Who said Christians were in the right? They stole a God and created a new religion.

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The reality of this situation is happening in Palestine. If you put people in a cage and poke them with sticks eventually they will act like animals.

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Yes, and I saw this up close with the "settler tour". This takes place every Saturday in the old city section of Hebron, which is under full military control. About 30 soldiers will pour into the area through a locked gate. Approx. 50 settlers will follow after them. They then walk through the area, often vandalizing Palestinian shops, but really just engaging in nothing more than a gross show of force. They will wind through the old city and leave. I saw one couple pushing a baby in a stroller. I saw one girl wearing those floppy antennae things kids may wear on their heads at a carnival. It was almost like the settlers treated it as though they were touring a freak show. Traffic is shut down completely during the middle of the day just so they can do this.

What stuck out to me most, though, was the lack of humanity I saw in the eyes of the settlers and border police. Border police and IDF participate, but the IDF soldiers seemed to be there because they are required by law. The IDF soldiers, we noticed, would never look you in the eyes. They'd always turn away. The border police, though, seemed to enjoy this. We had one border police mocking the observers for wanting "peace in the Middle East" and for saying "we should all just love each other". I actually broke down when we got back because it was the same lack of humanity that I displayed when in Iraq. And the looks that the international observers received from the settlers were shocking. It still blows me away that they have such a problem with peace activists. We were yelled at. Our pictures were taken. But, in the midst of all of this, there was a Palestinian man running a street-side shop making this horribly greasy fried bread. We had made eye contact and he waved me over. He asked me where I was from and I told him. He said "oh, my sister lives in Chicago. She says Americans are great!" Then he gave me a free piece of the fried bread. The best part was that his sons were all standing there, seeing this act of kindness in such a horrible situation.

But, I'll post a separate thread on the settler tour in the coming days. It was a very tough experience, and when I really saw just how they were being treated like caged animals.

Go to Gaza and see how peaceful they really are to Jews. You can't today, but send a Jew into Bethlehem and see how long he lives. While thousands of Palestinians live in Israel today and love living in Israel.

Obviously being a Christian I think Christians are right. Who is right objectively is not really the point. The point is why take one group that doesn't believe in your faith and support them over another that also doesn't believe... On religious grounds?

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BUT - the Israelis are the animals here.

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Are you so utterly controlled by blind loyalty to Israel that you are incapable of seeing that both sides bear blame for the conflict?

Nobody said the Israelis are animals. They aren't blameless. Neither are the Palestinians. But just because something happened 50 years ago doesn't mean continued oppression is justified. For a Christian to make the "might makes right" argument is just flat out anti-Christ. We, as followers of Christ, are to stand with the oppressed and marginalized.

Oh, and what is it with you and agie using quotations? You w/ the Palestinians. agie with Jesus. Do you honestly believe being purposely antagonistic, which is what the sole purpose of using quotations like that is, is contributing to a dialogue? Then again, I don't think you actually want dialogue. You made that clear with your first post. That mindset is so closed to other perspectives that dialogue becomes impossible.

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It's a weak defense, and to make it weaker they claim antisemitism. As if you have to harbor ethnic hate to hate oppression.

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Exactly. These baseless accusations simply stop dialogue in its tracks, so we get absolutely no growth.

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BTW - I don't reply to try and change your mind. I just reply to make sure other readers get a clear picture of why the IDF does what it does and where blame for the present situation lies. There are two sides to every story.

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You've done no such thing though. You just keep regurgitating the same things about "might makes right" and pointing to a war 50 years ago. I get it. You believe in moral relativism, but you aren't getting another side out there. You are simply regurgitating the flawed narrative the media has fed us for years.

But, you are right. There are 2 sides to every story. Which makes it weird that you are completely ignoring the Palestinian side.

k2aggie07 said:

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Nations are relatively new concepts in the region. There was a Roman province called Palestine. The nationhood argument is weak.

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True, and not to mention, 136 nations currently recognize Palestine. Plus, the British Mandate referred to the area as Palestine.

RetiredAg said:

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k2aggie07 said:

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Nations are relatively new concepts in the region. There was a Roman province called Palestine. The nationhood argument is weak.

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True, and not to mention, 136 nations currently recognize Palestine. Plus, the British Mandate referred to the area as Palestine.

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By all means, less recognize what the world sees and not God. In that case, women should be able to choose abortions whenever they want, people would be allowed to kill an elderly person who wants to die, etc.

God gave the land to the Jews. It is theirs, not Palestinians. The Jews were there long before the Palestinians but forced to move on.

It is amazing how you continue to state that we are blindly following b/c we do not agree with your view. Yet, you don't agree with God's view nor our view. All this and somehow we are in the wrong.

Any support of the Palestinian people is show of support for Hamas and any other terrorist organizations supporting them. Therefore, an enemy of Israel and Jews.

And you the Israeli side. Again the road goes both ways.

B/c Jews do believe in my faith. I am a Jew. The disciples were Jews and their views did not change before Yeshua or after Yeshua. They maintained the same faith. They were still making sacrifices 40 years after the death and resurrection. They were still following Torah. Those coming from the Gentiles hijacked the faith and created a new religion.

It's such an interesting take on well-established history you have.

agie95 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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k2aggie07 said:

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Nations are relatively new concepts in the region. There was a Roman province called Palestine. The nationhood argument is weak.

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True, and not to mention, 136 nations currently recognize Palestine. Plus, the British Mandate referred to the area as Palestine.

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By all means, less recognize what the world sees and not God. In that case, women should be able to choose abortions whenever they want, people would be allowed to kill an elderly person who wants to die, etc.

God gave the land to the Jews. It is theirs, not Palestinians. The Jews were there long before the Palestinians but forced to move on.

It is amazing how you continue to state that we are blindly following b/c we do not agree with your view. Yet, you don't agree with God's view nor our view. All this and somehow we are in the wrong.

Any support of the Palestinian people is show of support for Hamas and any other terrorist organizations supporting them. Therefore, an enemy of Israel and Jews.

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Are you supporting Israelis who murder Palestinians by your support of Israel?

What do you make of Palestinians who say their God gives them rights to the land?

RetiredAg said:

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Plus, the British Mandate referred to the area as Palestine.

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Yes, but at that time "Palestine" included president-day Israel and Jordan.

BTW, do you know why the Romans named the region "Palestine"?

commando2004 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Plus, the British Mandate referred to the area as Palestine.

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Yes, but at that time "Palestine" included president-day Israel and Jordan.

BTW, do you know why the Romans named the region "Palestine"?

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No, I don't know why. I was simply adding to a comment pertaining to the claim that there's never been a placed called Palestine. It's simply not true.

I love the pretend religion where Jesus is suddenly an OK Jew. Jews openly reject Jesus to this day, and for good reason, by Jewish interpretation of scripture he's a clear heretic and not any manner of Messiah. He wouldn't be a Jew today they would not have him.

And it's even more pathetic to argue that any act is ok because the Bible claims God gave them that land. You bemoan abortion and yet justify murder based on ancient texts, especially with an old testament that's historically disproven in the literal sense you take it.

Scratch a blind supporter and find a small mind. You actually just equated standing up for innocent people with supporting hamas.

BTW, interesting history on the name Palestine here on wikipedia. I didn't even know it went this far back.

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The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistin" in The Histories, which included the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.

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Just adding this because I thought it was interesting.

Their god is not a god...made up in the mind of one person and then many were killed unless they joined....oh wait Christianity killed in the name of their god as well. Hmmm.

and you don't antagonize at all....no....you just liked to confront others if you suspect them of doing so. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

In many Jewish texts Yeshua is considered a tzadik, so your point is totally invalid.

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I love the pretend religion where Jesus is suddenly an OK Jew. Jews openly reject Jesus to this day, and for good reason, by Jewish interpretation of scripture he's a clear heretic and not any manner of Messiah. He wouldn't be a Jew today they would not have him.

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Regardless, I am sure the result would have been very similar. He would have ended up murdered, just as He was 2000 years ago and just as many of the prophets before Him were.

Plus, I'm confident He'd not be turning a blind eye to the plight of the Palestinian people.

agie95 said:

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In many Jewish texts Yeshua is considered a tzadik, so your point is totally invalid.

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Lol no. Some may think some of his words rightuous but the central point stands, he claimed to be the Messiah and did not remotely meet the criteria. That's leaving out the vague claim to divinity in Johns gospel.

If your gonna fake Jew, then fake Jew. There is no place for false Messiah's in Judaism, and that's what Jesus claimed to be.

And this says nothing for your infantile defense of murder because a largely literally disproven part of the Bible makes that claim.