quote:

---

So it's universal, but not everyone knows it? That doesn't seem very universal.

---

Everyone knows it innately, but they can override it.

quote:

---

quote:

---

NAMBLA was a huge supporter of certain catholic priests too. A great ally of the church

---

Did they March in Catholic parades?

---

They were priests.

Universal means unanimity of opinion.

Objective means independent of people's opinions.

You don't need universality for objectivity.

quote:

---

quote:

---

I'm sorry if it hurts your cause, but NAMBLA has been an ally of the Gay movement for quite some time until it began hurting their PR campaign. The info is on the Internet, look it up. I never claimed the NAMBLA was a mainstream gay rights organization, just that they were a natural ally for the gay rights movement until they became an uncomfortable associate.

---

Yes, the info is on the internet. The sources are all crap.

Please do explain how they're a "natural ally" for the gay rights movement though.

quote:

---

Kids are certainly not more protected from child predators, are you serious? With the advent of the social networking engine, kids are more vulnerable ever to child predators on line, where are you getting your info from?

---

You cannot be this stupid. Yes, the opportunities for exploitation are greater than ever. Society has responded accordingly. We even charge teenagers with trafficking child pornography when they send pictures of their own junk to each other now. 18 year old seniors get criminal recards and labeled sex offenders for life for getting a beej from a freshman they go to school with.

quote:

---

I don't give two ****s about whether or not a predilection towards children is biological or an affectation, only that acting on the impulse is heinous.

---

Agreed. It has no bearing on this conversation unless you find consenting adults acting on same-sex attraction to be equally as heinous.

quote:

---

I understand that you're certainly not impartial as regards this issue, but how you fail to see the affirmation of relationships that aren't marriage as marriage is a gigantic slippery slope leading likely to the near future acceptance of incest, and likely to other more heinous actions including pedophilia is beyond me.

---

Again, if the Supreme Court had ruled the opposite way last June, our country's level of acceptance of pedophilia would have remained unchanged. You've yet to show any connection between the two other than the fact that you really, really, REALLY think there's a connection.

I could just as easily point to our country's acceptance of Catholicism with its noted pedophilia problems in the clergy as an example of society moving toward accepting pedophilia on a larger scale. But I wouldn't do that because it would be incredibly stupid and not supported by any kind of actual evidence.

---

Should be extremely easy to see why they're a natural ally, they're fighting for the same thing you are just a few stages further on. Do you think NAMBLA was excited or dismayed by the ruling regarding gay marriage? If the enemy of my enemy is my friend it should be fairly easy to see why NAMBLA and gay advocacy groups are working hand in hand to fundamentally change how America sees authentic love and marriage.

quote:

---

Universal means unanimity of opinion.

Objective means independent of people's opinions.

You don't need universality for objectivity.

---

And all we have for moral claims is the subjective opinions of man or their subjective claims of knowing their gods supposed objective morality. We have no way to identify objective morality if it exists.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

So it's universal, but not everyone knows it? That doesn't seem very universal.

---

Everyone knows it innately, but they can override it.

---

Got any evidence for this?

---

Sure, look at how many societies have laws against murder theft and rape. Look at how quick children are to smack people who they're angry at. Whether you think it's the cause of the creator, or a social trait from evolution, it's ridiculous to assert that the decalogue isn't a widely agreed to set of governing principles regarding morality. As many atheists will tell you, the decalogue didn't come up with anything new as these sorts of guidelines were well known by the time Moses came down from the mount with the tablets.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Universal means unanimity of opinion.

Objective means independent of people's opinions.

You don't need universality for objectivity.

---

And all we have for moral claims is the subjective opinions of man or their subjective claims of knowing their gods supposed objective morality. We have no way to identify objective morality if it exists.

---

Objective morality exists outside of our ability to comprehend it's totality. Every action can be objectively immoral or moral, with our subjective actions determining our culpability as principal agent.

So.. I agree that child molestation is heinous and should be suppressed by any means necessary. Whether it has a natural explanation or not. It's negative effect on society has been addressed.

Stop lumping me in with your perceived pedo acceptance crowd. You are literally ranting past the conversation like Jacques used to do. Just to get your anger out.

My problem with your side of the heated debate was posted above. It only has to do with the subject of comparing homosexual equality to child molestation/rape by being a gateway to acceptance of the latter. Which is asinine IMHO.


Now... If a person has the impulse to become a pedophile.. Where do you think that inpulse comes from? Serious question. I want to know your opinion.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Should be extremely easy to see why they're a natural ally, they're fighting for the same thing you are just a few stages further on. Do you think NAMBLA was excited or dismayed by the ruling regarding gay marriage? If the enemy of my enemy is my friend it should be fairly easy to see why NAMBLA and gay advocacy groups are working hand in hand to fundamentally change how America sees authentic love and marriage.

---

Maybe they're a natural ally of interracial marriage. Or a natural supporter of heterosexual marriage. If this is indeed a slippery slope it slopes in both directions.

And again, wow. I genuinely thought labeling pedophilia as some advanced form of homosexuality was beneath you. It's like notafraid and AgBeliever never left now.

---

What does interracial marriage have to do with anything? A man and a woman make a marriage regardless of race, the Catholic church was at the forefront of marrying interracial couples when it was legal as they understood that just because something is legal or illegal doesnt make it okay. Explain your comments regarding why nambla which is trying to promote homosexual pedophilia relationships would be pro traditional marriage.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Universal means unanimity of opinion.

Objective means independent of people's opinions.

You don't need universality for objectivity.

---

And all we have for moral claims is the subjective opinions of man or their subjective claims of knowing their gods supposed objective morality. We have no way to identify objective morality if it exists.

---

Objective morality exists outside of our ability to comprehend it's totality. Every action can be objectively immoral or moral, with our subjective actions determining our culpability as principal agent.

---

That may be true but we still have no idea what objective morality is if it exists. All we have is subjective opinions.

quote:

---

It's not rocket surgery. If gay marriage was the gateway to pedophilia, interracial marriage was the gateway to gay marriage.

All this aside, it's odd that you keep leaving out all the good Christians who have married underage girls throughout the centuries without anyone batting an eye.

---

Straight marriage is what started it all then.

The reality is that polygamy, incest, homosexuality and heterosexuality are all equally different from pedophilia.

quote:

---

So.. I agree that child molestation is heinous and should be suppressed by any means necessary. Whether it has a natural explanation or not. It's negative effect on society has been addressed.

Stop lumping me in with your perceived pedo acceptance crowd. You are literally ranting past the conversation like Jacques used to do. Just to get your anger out.

My problem with your side of the heated debate was posted above. It only has to do with the subject of comparing homosexual equality to child molestation/rape by being a gateway to acceptance of the latter. Which is asinine IMHO.


Now... If a person has the impulse to become a pedophile.. Where do you think that inpulse comes from? Serious question. I want to know your opinion.

---

I think like nearly everything it's likely a combination of genetics and nurture. We also need to be intelligent enough to avoid the knee-jerk reaction of having anything compared to pedophilia. Much like everyone goes ape**** whenever anyone compares something to Hitler even when the comparison is apt.

quote:

---

We also need to be intelligent enough to avoid the knee-jerk reaction of having anything compared to pedophilia.

---

Or - and here's a crazy thought - maybe we could just not compare things to pedophilia that don't have anything to do with pedophilia.

quote:

---

But you're telling me that there is nobody in the world who doesn't know the truth deep down. Laws against it aren't evidence of unanimity, just of a majority. You have evidence that most people in the world agree on some basic moral guidelines, not that everyone has intrinsic knowledge of them. So again, do you have any evidence?

Gay marriage is legal. Do we all know deep down that gays should have the right to marry?

---

Gay marriage has only gained widespread legality in modern times, nor? Even when whichever culture was boinking manservants left and right they never actually married them did they? Take muslims with their Bacha boys or whatever, they'll play around with the dancing boys but they don't ever marry them. Even you argue that the main points of morality are known around the world by unrelated cultures, it is much more rational to believe that these beliefs are inherent than to believe a bunch of random people somehow came to the same identical conclusions.

quote:

---

It's not rocket surgery. If gay marriage was the gateway to pedophilia, interracial marriage was the gateway to gay marriage.

All this aside, it's odd that you keep leaving out all the good Christians who have married underage girls throughout the centuries without anyone batting an eye.

---

Who are all these good Christians who married underage girls throughout history? And how is interracial marriage the gateway to gay marriage? Interracial marriage has existed forever and is even referenced in the old testatement

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Universal means unanimity of opinion.

Objective means independent of people's opinions.

You don't need universality for objectivity.

---

And all we have for moral claims is the subjective opinions of man or their subjective claims of knowing their gods supposed objective morality. We have no way to identify objective morality if it exists.

---

Objective morality exists outside of our ability to comprehend it's totality. Every action can be objectively immoral or moral, with our subjective actions determining our culpability as principal agent.

---

That may be true but we still have no idea what objective morality is if it exists. All we have is subjective opinions.

---

No, we have a conscience and a general understanding of how to act when confronted with situations

quote:

---

quote:

---

It's not rocket surgery. If gay marriage was the gateway to pedophilia, interracial marriage was the gateway to gay marriage.

All this aside, it's odd that you keep leaving out all the good Christians who have married underage girls throughout the centuries without anyone batting an eye.

---

Straight marriage is what started it all then.

The reality is that polygamy, incest, homosexuality and heterosexuality are all equally different from pedophilia.

---

How is that the reality, who claims that, you?

quote:

---

No, we have a conscience and a general understanding of how to act when confronted with situations

---

This is not objective. This is subjective.

quote:

---

quote:

---

No, we have a conscience and a general understanding of how to act when confronted with situations

---

This is not objective. This is subjective.

---

I've already told you our actions are subjective, our conscience points us toward the objective truth.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

No, we have a conscience and a general understanding of how to act when confronted with situations

---

This is not objective. This is subjective.

---

I've already told you our actions are subjective, our conscience points us toward the objective truth.

---

You are just claiming that. All evidence shows our conscience points us all to different views of morality. Subjective

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

No, we have a conscience and a general understanding of how to act when confronted with situations

---

This is not objective. This is subjective.

---

I've already told you our actions are subjective, our conscience points us toward the objective truth.

---

You are just claiming that. All evidence shows our conscience points us all to different views of morality. Subjective

---

You're just claiming that as well, I've already referenced thee widespread uniformity of basic moral beliefs that transcend time and geography, where's all the evidence showing you otherwise.

quote:

---

quote:

---

You're just claiming that as well, I've already referenced thee widespread uniformity of basic moral beliefs that transcend time and geography, where's all the evidence showing you otherwise.

---

First off even with your example of murder, there has been a huge amount of variance on what is considered murder across time and geography. This is evidence that the morality we have access to is subjective. Secondly objective morality encompasses more than a couple things like murder and rape and we see a lot of variation from top to bottom on what is and isn't moral.

In short even the things you bring up are just evidence of subjective morality.

---

No, they're evidence of an objective morality, that killing people is wrong, in which people subjectively define thresholds of culpability concerning intent.

quote:

---

No, they're evidence of an objective morality, that killing people is wrong, in which people subjectively define thresholds of culpability concerning intent.

---

No, and let's not make it confusing with you interchanging "killing people" and "murder." The evidence shows that people have completely different ideas of what murder is and many of those different ideas through history are completely incompatible with what we think murder is. This isn't defining thresholds. This is defining completely different things as murder or not murder.

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

No idea, but it sure seems like there has to be some kind of genetic component considering it just won't go away no matter how hard people have tried to make it.

---

Not to mention that kids can show tendencies far before they have any understanding of sexuality. When I was growing up, my best friends little brother was always in his mother's closet.

We were only a few years older and just thought he was a little strange. As we grew older, it was more of a WTF is wrong with your brother.

He came out in high school, in the 80's. Hardly anyone was that open about it in high school back then. Looking back, he really didn't have a choice. The kid was way too feminine to hide it.

---

It's his cross to bear. He was created that way only to suffer from not being able to act on that attraction. If he did so, he will have committed a terrible sin. His only option is to repent and turn toward God.

/Christians who just don't like homosexuality and use religion to validate their hatred of it.

6 brainwashed blue stars

---

Will you explain why your post makes sense? It seems like you just tried spiking the football in the endzone without realizing you're playing soccer. We're talking about morality here; if you change "gay" to "child molestor" or "person who is genetically predisposed to rape" would you be so flippant? Of course not; it's only because you don't see homosexual activity as being immoral; although it could be if we just wait around for society to change it's mind. We've already heard that being attracted to children is natural in this thread; just a few moments ago; if and when society decides that love-wins for pedos, will you be posting the same thing regarding Christians denouncing the practice?

---

Guess you didn't get the memo that the Catholic Church has been moving their pedo priests around from city to city for only God knows how long ... anything to keep the coverup going. The love must have been strong there.

Decades ago, many of these victims parents held the rug up while the church did the sweeping. That mess is being dealt with in a more effective manner in this decade. Proof that even the least moral organizations are less accepting of pedos.

If your opinion is correct, the Catholic Church is full of homosexual priests (since pedophilia is a gay thing), right? How do you validate Christianity as a moral compass when their largest and most powerful denomination was found guilty of systematically covering up homosexuality and pedophilia in their priesthood?

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Would be nice if we went after divorced people who aren't genetically predisposed to being pieces of **** rather than gays for acting on an attraction God gave them when he made them in his image.

---

Can we treat gay divorced couples worse? That's the only way I'll sign on.

---

You pretend like you're joking but it's obvious to all that you really want this

---

Yep. He speaks of God but consistently spews hate and intolerance under the clock of humor. He also comes across as a know-it-all leading me to believe that in actuality, he knows nothing at all.

Hint: Emojis don't come with the power to fool people.

Nah dude, this is just my e persona, I'm a great guy in real life, ask woody

quote:

---

Nah dude, this is just my e persona, I'm a great guy in real life, ask woody

---

I don't doubt that you are... but since we've never met in person I can't confirm.