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The early christians that died at the hands of the ceaser's were confused....

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The early catholic church was not what it is today, yet catholics always ignore this basic fact.

Newsflash...Catholics do "do this in rememberence of me."

I am sorry but where does that say, "This is symbolic of my body and blood?"

I must be stupid like every Christian from AD 33 - AD 1600.



[This message has been edited by Seamaster (edited 7/9/2008 1:02p).]

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I must be getting my chain jerked by the RCC like many Christians from AD 900 - AD 1500.

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Historically accurate FIFY

[This message has been edited by BMEDAggie11 (edited 7/9/2008 1:05p).]

Here is some more "basic Sunday school stuff...."

48 I am the bread of life.

49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.

50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.

51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."

52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?"

53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.

56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.

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the early church isn't what it was today

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Typical arrogance of the modern man. We should just rewrite the bible then because those early imbecils weren't very smart.

well, how about me, who had CofC inlaws who were offended by the crossing of me during CofC services and I was told by a member not to do that.

Or how about the Baptist preacher who told me when I was a kid I was going to burn in hell because OI was Christened as a baby instead of being baptized later on and I called him father instead of Brother Dillon?

Yeah..

As a Catholic I constantly have Christians coming on my blog and telling me that I am going to hell. I get called invective and hatefull things all the time. Please.

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I wonder if anybody has figured out that "body of Christ" if sampled before the sacrament begins, and during the sacrament, and what is left over, still tastes like a cracker and wine? From beginning to end.

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Bob you have had the Catholic understanding of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and transubstantiation explained to you on more than one occasion, if you choose to force it into your understanding that is your problem.

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...the eternal birgin...

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What?

Give 'em Hell Tanya!

[This message has been edited by jkag89 (edited 7/9/2008 1:14p).]

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Typical arrogance of the modern man. We should just rewrite the bible then because those early imbecils weren't very smart.

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This doctrine didnt officially exist until the 9th century

Purgatory was established during the crusades as a means of pulling people back into the church and getting out of debt after people had lost faith in the church's judgement

The idea that Mary was an eternal virgin wasnt adopted until the 1500s during the reformation

I can go on for a while, but you get the idea. The Catholic church tried to assume the role of government figurehead and religious body, and in doing so became corrupt in many ways.

Look, I'm not questioning your salvation or anything here, but these are historical events that are constantly ignored.

jkag

I'm not trying to argue just to argue. For all my searching of where to go and all my fun I like to poke at things, communion is real event for me. I do believe it is important to be respectful in other people's homes and the attitude of several posters here is just why so many people have issues with "Christians" in general.

They aren't being kind and loving and trying to lead the way. They are mean-spirited and look for any reason to insult some denomination they don't like.

We all know I have issues with the Catholic church. But that doesn't mean communion can't be a beautiful, meaningful, spiritual thing. And to blow off someone's traditions and beliefs just because you feel like it is wrong.

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As a Catholic I constantly have Christians coming on my blog and telling me that I am going to hell.

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And that's wrong, because you arent. You ask Jesus to save you from eternal damnation and you are saved. I've never believed Catholics are going to Hell. My point is catholics needlessly worry about their salvation and constantly participate in religious acts not found in scripture.

BMed should pick up a real history book.

I know plenty of catholics who reject certain "official doctrines" because they took the time to flip through a world history book and realized they were getting swindled.

so you know what was in God's heart, but these Catholics don't?

You continue not to respect their traditions. Do you not see that? You seem to think they way they do communion is wrong and you shouldn't have to follow it in their church if you don't like.

That is what many people are reading from you dearie.

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This doctrine didnt officially exist until the 9th century

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No. As I've already pointed out it existed from the very beginning. I can't help it if you choose to ignore it.

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Purgatory was established during the crusades as a means of pulling people back into the church and getting out of debt after people had lost faith in the church's judgement

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Wrong again.

"If the baptized person fulfills the obligations demanded of a Christian, he does well. If he does not--provided he keeps the faith, without which he would perish forever--no matter in what sin or impurity remains, he will be saved, as it were, by fire; as one who has built on the foundation, which is Christ, not gold, silver, and precious stones, but wood, hay straw, that is, not just and chasted works but wicked and unchaste works." Augustine, Faith and Works, 1:1 (A.D. 413).

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The idea that Mary was an eternal virgin wasnt adopted until the 1500s during the reformation

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You clearly have never even cracked anything about Church history and doctrine have you?

"Therefore let those who deny that the Son is from the Father by nature and proper to His Essence, deny also that He took true human flesh of Mary Ever-Virgin; for in neither case had it been of profit to us men, whether the Word were not true and naturally Son of God, or the flesh not true which He assumed." Athanasius, Orations against the Arians, II:70 (A.D. 362).

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I can go on for a while, but you get the idea. The Catholic church tried to assume the role of government figurehead and religious body, and in doing so became corrupt in many ways.

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Please keep it up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

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Look, I'm not questioning your salvation or anything here, but these are historical events that are constantly ignored.

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You are telling me that I am ignoring history? Touche.

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My point is catholics needlessly worry about their salvation and constantly participate in religious acts not found in scripture.

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The Eucharist not found in scripture...please excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall.

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I'm not trying to argue just to argue.

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Tanya - It has taken me awhile but I think for the most part know when you are serious and when you are just "stirring the pot" on these boards. I was just giving you the thumbs up because I personally have become tired of trying to defend my beliefs from those that are quick to be profane but slow to actually take any time to understand another's point of view. For some reason too many here think understanding is equal to agreeing.

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You clearly have never even cracked anything about Church history and doctrine have you?

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I rest my case

Oh, and you can't constantly quote one man from the 4th century and expect it to have any historical significance

nwhoustonag,

Give me a break. Your life wasn't threatened. Nobody attacked you. You ignored the practice of the Church you were in and got all pissed off because they enforced their practice.

You seem like the type of guy who thinks that the Church should be built in your own image...

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I know plenty of catholics who reject certain "official doctrines" because they took the time to flip through a world history book and realized they were getting swindled.

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What a history written by Jack Chick?

nwhoustonag

a church of your religion told me I was doing something wrong. It isn't related just to the Catholics. And when I was asked to stop because it made them uncomfortable, I stopped.

I was in their church, so I should follow their rules. Is it really that hard for you understand? Their church, their mass, their communion, their rules for the body of Christ?

[This message has been edited by Tanya 93 (edited 7/9/2008 1:28p).]

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I know plenty of catholics who reject certain "official doctrines" because they took the time to flip through a world history book and realized they were getting swindled.

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How ironic because I know dozens and dozens of Catholics who were once not Catholic and had no intention of being Catholic who became Catholic once they read primary source Christian history.

Those Catholics that leave usually end up being courted by fundamentalists who present a very unique and filtered view of things. I've seen it a hundred times. And, a lot of Catholics leave the Catholic church because they divorce and want to remarry. They get pissed that the Church won't allow them to remarry or they don't want to go through the annullment process so they just get a chip on their shoulder and convince themselves that the Catholic Church is wrong.

[This message has been edited by Seamaster (edited 7/9/2008 1:30p).]

No, a history written by someone OTHER than a catholic

Seamaster is saying that a catholic said the catholic version of history is true, so it must in fact be true. This a circular argument that has been used by the church for over a thousand years.

"We're right because we say we're right"

BMEDAggie11.

I am talking about the words of those written by the people who lived in a given era. The witness of those that lived in the 1st and 2nd century for example. Not books ABOUT them. But their words.

Get it?

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Should the church be built after my image? No, but it should respect my image.

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Oh, so now every Chruch has to conform to each and every individual's beliefs and practice?

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How ironic because I know dozens and dozens of Catholics who were once not Catholic and had no intention of being Catholic who became Catholic once they read primary source Christian history.

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And there are dozens and dozens of people easily deceived in this world

Can you not see how silly it is to claim your church's version of things is right because other men in said church told you so?

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I am talking about the words of those written by the people who lived in a given era. The witness of those that lived in the 1st and 2nd century for example. Not books ABOUT them. But their words.

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Hitler said Jews were inferior beings in 1935

Not many people in the world bought into it, but hey, he said it, so it must be true

One man's personal opinion of scripture from 1500 years ago is not historical. At all.

On the other hand, church attendence in Italy nearly doubled at the start of the 11th century. THAT is history.

BMEDAggie11...

So what do you think would be a better picture of early Christian theology and worship?

1) Extant written evidence from a wide breath of theologians and fathers who communicated about what was going on at the time? First person eye witness accounts of practice?

Or...

2) Research conducted by men 2000 years removed from those events? And men who have an axe to grind and reason to filter things a certain way at that.

Which do you think would be a more accurate portrayal of history?

[This message has been edited by Seamaster (edited 7/9/2008 1:39p).]

the one that suits your agenda