Which is your favorite and why?

FULL METAL JACKET

1. You got to go through what a real recruit did (basic training to warfare). The transformation of Private Joker from prankster to killer is amazing.

2. Directed by Stanley Kubrick. Whereas Cimino, Coppola, and Stone where their heart on their sleeves, you can find deeper levels after multiple viewings.

3. The characters in PLATOON and APOCALYPSE NOW are either good or bad, best exemplified by the characters played by Sheen/Dafoe and Brando/Berenger.

4. The "bad" guy in FULL METAL JACKET is the drill instructor. But even though his technique is crude, he does change Joker into a killing machine. That is his job, he did it well, so not that bad of a guy.

If I was ranking them, it would be like this:

FULL METAL JACKET
THE DEER HUNTER
APOCALYPSE NOW
PLATOON

[This message has been edited by Big 12-0 (edited 11/11/2005 2:53p).]

[This message has been edited by Big 12-0 (edited 11/11/2005 2:54p).]

Apocalypse Now is the only one that stands the test of time in my opinion. Francis Ford Coppola knows how to tell a story on film. On the other hand, it is best to realize that this is not an acurate portrayal of events in Vietnam but just the use of that conflict to tell the tale. I urge everyone to see the Redux cut of the film.

Full Metal Jacket was a great dark comedy. I can still spout off a bunch of lines from that movie - especially from the door gunner on the helicopter.

Apacolypse Now was a great movie, but without the dark humor. I love the scene where the air cav takes out the village and then goes surfing.

Platoon & Deer Hunter were just tedious and depressing. I can't sit through either when I see them on cable.

The Deer Hunter is the most depressing movie I've ever seen!

From what I was trying to say in my earlier post is that good and evil are not as clearly defined in FULL METAL JACKET as it is in PLATOON and APOCALYPSE NOW.

**SPOILER**

But that is the way of the world. Were the Vietnamese truly "evil" or "good". Was Modine "evil" when he shot the sniper or was he "good" when he put her out of her misery.

That is why I prefer FULL METAL JACKET.

Those movies are so very different in the stories they are trying to tell it is hard to compare them. All 4 were superbly executed, though.

I think the one that did the best job of developing characters and telling a story from beginning to end was Platoon. Sheen's character was one that I could identify with and therefore his experiences in the film were much more impactful on me than those of the leads in the other films.

Full Metal Jacket is a close second for me, but I think the very rough and abrupt transition from training to war made it less powerful than it could have been. Although I realize that Kubrick structured it that way intentionally, it almost made it feel like two movies mashed into one. They were both great movies, though.

I like Apocalypse and Deer Hunter as well, but they are a distant third and fourth for me to Platoon and FMJ. In Apocalypse Now, the war is more of a backdrop for the tale of Willard (i.e. Marlow) as he traveled into the Heart of Darkness. The Deer Hunter was a little too melodramatic for my tastes, but it was great if you like those kinds of things.

BigAg,

Good notice on the two movies in FULL METAL JACKET and Kubrick did indeed intend it that way. But...

The movie is three acts.

1. Basic Training - Beginning until the incident in the latrine.

2. Wartime - Joker, as a journalist, is itching to get into real battle (his training from Sgt. Hartman is still in him, so Hartman did his duty, making him into a killer). Ends when the squad take in the Vvietnamese hooker.

3. Warfare - One day, one battle, where all the training has led up. Joker fulfills his duty.

Notice that the three acts are divided by the appearance of a Vietnamese prostitute. Act 2 begins with the hooker's ("Me so..." offer while the Vietnamese thug steals the camera. Also notice that Act 2 ends when Animal Mother walks off into the building with another hooker.

What is Kubrick trying to say here? Is there a correlation between the two prostitues and the sniper? I'll leave that up to your analysis.

[This message has been edited by Big 12-0 (edited 11/11/2005 4:35p).]

Good analysis Big12-0!

I would rank the movies in order of preference as follows:

Full Metal Jacket
Apocalypse Now
Platoon
Deer Hunter

I found Deer Hunter to be boring and depressing as h#ll.

Platoon had some good acting and some pretty good battle scenes, but Stone's take on the war was a little over the top.

Jacket and Apocalypse were great movies that made use of some good actors and cinematography of their day. The scores to both movies were outstanding (Flight of the Valkyrie anyone?, and the classic rock of Jacket) at setting the mood of the time.

And the quotable lines from both movies were great:

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning..."

"Me so h@rny..."

Just to name a couple.

I would rank "We were Soldiers" with those.

My order of preference:

1) Deer Hunter
2) Platoon
3) Full Metal Jacket
4) Apocalypse Now

Full Metal Jacket: see above posts.

Deer Hunter: depressing? yes. it was supposed to be. but still an amazing film.

Apocalypse Now: awesome. and a close #3.

Platoon: always thought it was okay.

Full Metal Jacket
Apocalypse Now
Platoon
The Deer Hunter

TAF

a post referencing Kubrick and mhayden is nowhere to be found?

The end of "Deer Hunter" reminds me of the end of "Mystic River." You have these blue-collar folks who've been dealt a rough hand in life, sitting around the back of the bar singing "God Bless America." They are the backbone of our nation. They have every reason to be upset with America, but yet-they hold their heads up and sing its praises. In Mystic River, the end scene at the parade reminds me of that singing scene in the Pennsylvania divebar.

FMJ is the trendy pick, but Apocalypse Now is not only a great adaptation of Heart of Darkness, I've always thought of it as one of the most true to life films.

growing up in my house, my dad never let us watch any vietnam movies. he said that none of them captured what it was really like. in fact, i remember him throwing a massive fit when he came home to find me and my friends watching Born on the 4th of July.

the only movie he ever said came anywhere close to the vietnam he saw was Coppola's epic. that always carried some weight with me.

For the Air Cav Assault alone....AN.

Nice post.

To me Full Metal Jacket is the most watchable of these four movies. If that movie is on cable and I happend to click to that channel I cannot make myself turn it off. In my opinion there is no way the other movies hold your attention the way FMJ does.

The characters in FMJ are so well developed. By the time they go to war you really feel like these are friends of yours from home - I think this was Kubrink's intention.

I would like to hear more about the analysis of the prostitute scenes breaking up the three acts.

A long time ago (when I had a shorter attention span) I rented Deer Hunter and could just not make it thru this movie. I think it is way to long and has a flawed structure. Part of being a great director and editor is knowing what to cut out. Both Deer Hunter and Apocolypse Now could have been a lot tighter in my opinion.

quote:

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I would like to hear more about the analysis of the prostitute scenes breaking up the three acts.

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Besides being a divider between the acts, I kind of saw it as a statement of how ironic the war was. We were supposed to be helping them and here are U.S. soldiers taking advantage of the situation.

Remember Joker's line to the documentary filmmakers: "I wanted to meet people of different cultures and kill them."

In both, a Vietnamese male takes something from the men. The thug takes Rafterman's camera and the pimp takes their money.

The idea of women wrongly thought of as "victims" and "objects" is prevalent throughout the film, also.

MaryJaneRottencrotch: hometown sweetheart
Vietnamese hookers

But in the end, the sniper is a woman. Just as Sgt. Hartman forced the recruits to name their rifles a woman's name (and in which is used as a weapon to kill him), women should never be underestimated (as in The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut, etc.).

I think Joker is such a well developed character. He is such a smart ass, but almost everything he says rings true. I think Matthew Modine played Joker perfectly. It might be one of his very best roles.

If you watch very closely, when Joker is contemplating shooting the sniper, you can see the peace symbol on his helmet waver in the shadows of the fire. Then, he shoots her, and Matthew Modine turns his head just enough to cast the peace symbol in total darkness.

Trivia: Anthony Michael Hall was originally cast as Private Joker.

My great-uncle and grandfather both fought in Viet Nam. Both hate Platoon, dislike AN and I have never heard a comment from them about Deer Hunter, but they both also like FMJ. The only thing that pissed them off was the door gunner part. My great-uncle especially so because he was in 7th Bn., 1st Cav.

On a side not, my great-uncle said that "We Were Soldier..." was about 50% accurate and the most realistic depiction of the war in Viet Nam he has ever seen. Both my great-uncle and grandfather said that SPR was the best depection of battle they have ever seen.

AgDog
Hell Bent Canine
All or None
FIDO

quote:

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I think Joker is such a well developed character. He is such a smart ass, but almost everything he says rings true. I think Matthew Modine played Joker perfectly. It might be one of his very best roles.

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He wrote a book about it too.
Full Metal Jacket: Diary
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590710479/002-2832102-8612833?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance

I bet it's a very interesting read on the filming of FMJ.

[This message has been edited by dave99ag (edited 11/18/2005 12:06p).]

My dad was in the air cav during viet nam and hated AN, said it was ridiculous.

He also like We were soldiers...not sure about Platoon.

Dave99Ag,

Clever marketing that the book actually has a metal jacket with a serial number...sounds interesting.

If it was so cold when they filmed FMJ I wonder if they had the actors chew ice to keep their breath from showing on film. Vietnam sounds like such a hot and steamy place - it is odd to think that they filmed it in chilly London weather,