G Martin 87 said:
fig96 said:
G Martin 87 said:
fig96 said:
G Martin 87 said:
dave94 said:
G Martin 87 said:
boy09 said:
G Martin 87 said:
nai06 said:
G Martin 87 said:
Ryan the Temp said:
As a composer, I am ardently opposed to the use of AI for music creation, The human element is what makes music interesting and nuanced.
I understand your opposition, but respectfully, AI is no different than any other tool that makes work easier, including creative work. It can be used skillfully or poorly, like any musical instrument. The toothpaste is out of the tube; you can't force it back in, wish it away, or ignore it.
The difference is that AI output is inherently based on theft of human created works. It cannot exist without stealing the work of others.
Sorry, but this is just silly. Human artists have stolen from each other continuously in every creative endeavor, in every culture, and in every age going back thousands of years. If theft is your argument against AI, then be consistent and condemn all human artists as well.
Human artist are condemned for stealing all the time. They literally get sued for it if proper credit isn't given.
Yes, but I'm responding to nai06, who hasn't had that "aha" moment yet.
It's still VERY different for an artist to be influenced by music they've heard vs. a computer engine recycling all the music that has ever been recorded.
Other than speed, is it really?
Yes.
A human artist still needs the skill to execute what they've been influenced by, whether that be in music or art or design.
AI enables anyone to skip those steps and just say "make a thing that's like this" with no actual skill involved.
OK, finally someone has a good argument here. Theft is not the issue; humans and AI both steal and use existing patterns to make art. So let's talk about skill. Would you agree that synths, DAWs, drum machines, autotune, guitar pedals, and similar technology are simply tools that allow less skilled musicians to make better music? And that highly skilled musicians can use the same tools to make even better music? Is Tom Scholz the greatest musician who ever lived? Or the worst? For that matter, where does deadmaus rank?
ETA: Let's boil it down to the real, root problem that musicians have with AI: resentment. AI didn't have to put in the time practicing over and over to get that tricky passage just right. AI doesn't have to play through the pain of fingers on strings until callouses develop. I'm not saying that's not a valid feeling, or disagreeing with the complaint that AI makes it "too easy", that "AI never had to pay the dues to get good." That's what galls.
There's nothing wrong with tools that make the process easier. But truly great musicians can make music with or without those tools, they just enable them to do different things. The not very good musicians aren't very good with them.
Your argument discounts what those reps do. It's like how Renaissance painters learned by copying existing paintings, that's where the actual education comes in.
You're not only learning how to play, how to paint, how to design. You're making mistakes and learning how to adjust from them, you're learning what works and what doesn't work, you're finding new patterns or techniques on accident, you're learning what the masters of that craft did and starting to understand their choices.
You're learning taste.
I wouldn't agree with "you're learning taste", unless you just mean "you're learning what you like to play and listen to". What you're really doing is paying your dues to earn credibility with other musicians. And even then, Mozart was resented. Michelangelo was resented. So the reps aren't the whole point for artists anyway. Art is filled with hopeful artists who toiled and iterated and put in the work only to be eclipsed by others who were better with less effort, or just lucky. So again, we're back at an uncomfortable truth: AI usage in art is reviled because it's easy. Not because it can't produce good art.
Disagree. And I'm not saying that reps are the point, I'm saying they're what builds up your vocabulary, taste, and make you truly great.
Let's use your example of deadmau5. Is he an amazing traditional musician? Probably not, though I bet he'd surprise some people as he was dabbling in electronic music in a lot of different forms early on in his life.
But you know what he does know? That exact moment when a beat needs to drop, down to the fraction of a second. He know when the average person would do it, and he knows he's going to wait a fraction of a second longer or to do it somewhere else that's unexpected. And he knows that because he's done it thousands of times.
Someone creating with AI can't replicate that, because they don't have that experience. They haven't put in the reps. They're never going to be as good as he is at what he does.
A person with minimal experience can make something passable for a lot of folks with AI. But an artist experienced in that field can pick apart the issues with AI created content because they're really obvious to someone who knows what they're doing.
Will it get better? Most likely, but it's never going to have the depth or soul or true creativity of something created by an artist who truly understands the medium.
