fig96 said:
I'm genuinely confused how the complaints about Page are that they didn't look like a Greek warrior, when the whole point of the character is that they shouldn't have been a Greek warrior.
One Eyed Reveille said:
Is it like Nick Saban being asked to put in a woman that transitioned for his starting running back because there is a requirement for it making the playoffs.
William Foster said:fig96 said:
I'm genuinely confused how the complaints about Page are that they didn't look like a Greek warrior, when the whole point of the character is that they shouldn't have been a Greek warrior.
I don't know how to make it any more simple for you man...she's awkward in it, in every way. It feels forced/artificial to many of us. Always knew Nolan was loyal...didn't know he was THIS loyal. This would be like Nick Saban putting in a guy who runs a 5.3 second forty at Running Back just because he's family friends with him. Non-familial nepotism is what it comes across as.
zgolfz85 said:
correct, a fictional person....but one that is universally believed by scholars to have been at least loosely based on several ancient queens and/or noblewomen...in that region
M.C. Swag said:zgolfz85 said:
correct, a fictional person....but one that is universally believed by scholars to have been at least loosely based on several ancient queens and/or noblewomen...in that region
"Universally believed to potentially represent a few to several depictions of purported person(s) that were either queens, noblewomen or something else thereof in the geographic footprint that may or may not be Turkey and/or Greece approximately 3000 years ago."
zgolfz85 said:M.C. Swag said:zgolfz85 said:
correct, a fictional person....but one that is universally believed by scholars to have been at least loosely based on several ancient queens and/or noblewomen...in that region
"Universally believed to potentially represent a few to several depictions of purported person(s) that were either queens, noblewomen or something else thereof in the geographic footprint that may or may not be Turkey and/or Greece approximately 3000 years ago."
Where's the joke?
William Foster said:fig96 said:
I'm genuinely confused how the complaints about Page are that they didn't look like a Greek warrior, when the whole point of the character is that they shouldn't have been a Greek warrior.
I don't know how to make it any more simple for you man...she's awkward in it, in every way. It feels forced/artificial to many of us. Always knew Nolan was loyal...didn't know he was THIS loyal. This would be like Nick Saban putting in a guy who runs a 5.3 second forty at Running Back just because he's family friends with him. Non-familial nepotism is what it comes across as.
veryfuller said:
Cool!
Again, just cause PTSD is in it doesn't mean thats the point of the movie. Thats all I'm saying.
M.C. Swag said:William Foster said:M.C. Swag said:
There's been no explanations. You interjected that i was searching for racism when asking a user to expound on the 'why' of the casting choice being bad.
This threa is full of explanations. You really think there have been no explanations as to why some people are critical of her casting in this film?
I was asking Tom Kazansky for his.
Lathspell said:fig96 said:
I'm genuinely confused how the complaints about Page are that they didn't look like a Greek warrior, when the whole point of the character is that they shouldn't have been a Greek warrior.
Oh god... the "they" bull**** makes anything you type immediately ridiculous.
She is a confused woman. This is what I mean when I say most of us reject this ideology and refuse to play along.
There is a tiny woman cast as a Greek male soldier. It's ridiculous. Again, this isn't a community theater production.
YouBet said:veryfuller said:
Yes, its not the critique of the movie or adaptation that bothers me. Its the woke-washing of it. Its like, to some, because he makes some choices in adaptation, and because he is trying to apply the themes he took from the poem to a modern audience, then the movie is trash and there is nothing to be gained from it. I don't think people are being overly defensive of Nolan or the movie to argue against that perspective.
Honestly, the discourse around the movie could benefit if people watched the movie and thought, hmmm I wonder how this applies to me today....
Well, because he modernized it there is nothing there to apply that hasn't already been done a million times in other avenues of entertainment. I think would have been more insightful, interesting, and valid if he had adhered to source material.
As an example, there are dozens of war movies and others that address PTSD and trauma far better than this movie did that are far more relevant than this. That message has been done ad nauseum.
Throw some ancient western culture / philosophy/ etc at a modern audience and then let that sink in for people and then relate that back to the modern day. Much more impactful IMO because most people don't recall the details of The Odyssey and I doubt anyone under 35 or so has probably even read it.
Sapper Redux said:YouBet said:veryfuller said:
Yes, its not the critique of the movie or adaptation that bothers me. Its the woke-washing of it. Its like, to some, because he makes some choices in adaptation, and because he is trying to apply the themes he took from the poem to a modern audience, then the movie is trash and there is nothing to be gained from it. I don't think people are being overly defensive of Nolan or the movie to argue against that perspective.
Honestly, the discourse around the movie could benefit if people watched the movie and thought, hmmm I wonder how this applies to me today....
Well, because he modernized it there is nothing there to apply that hasn't already been done a million times in other avenues of entertainment. I think would have been more insightful, interesting, and valid if he had adhered to source material.
As an example, there are dozens of war movies and others that address PTSD and trauma far better than this movie did that are far more relevant than this. That message has been done ad nauseum.
Throw some ancient western culture / philosophy/ etc at a modern audience and then let that sink in for people and then relate that back to the modern day. Much more impactful IMO because most people don't recall the details of The Odyssey and I doubt anyone under 35 or so has probably even read it.
The Odyssey isn't a philosophical document. It's an epic poem much of which revolves around the inscrutable actions of deities not followed for millennia and a culture that would have been out of place in Herodotus's Greece. Nolan DID relate the timeless themes which are present to the modern day. He did not create a museum piece of a movie. There's value in films that are historically accurate and value in films that speak to timeless themes through ancient stories. It seems a lot of complaints are about a film Nolan never claimed to make.
FL_Ag1998 said:veryfuller said:
Cool!
Again, just cause PTSD is in it doesn't mean thats the point of the movie. Thats all I'm saying.
Sorry if I'm not being clear, but isn't Nolan's point with his version to show what can happen when mankind reduces itself to warfare (for a cause that the protagonist becomes disillusioned with), and specifically the issues that can have on a personal level?
i.e. in Nolan's version the Vietnam War = sacking of Troy. Our protagonist becomes disillusioned with the leaders and the causes behind it. It causes such a profound affect on him that he indergoes PTSD and has to undergo a personal journey to find his way "home". Ergo, the reviews I'm referring to likened it to the Vietnam War flicks that were popular in the 80s and 90s.
IMHO, a lot of conservatives are missing the Biblical forest for the woke trees in Nolan's Odyssey. Yes, the casting of Elliot Page is silly and egregious. But here's the thing: Nolan's "The Odyssey" is an apologia for Christian morality poured into a Greek vase.
— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) July 21, 2026
The entire…
Quote:
IMHO, a lot of conservatives are missing the Biblical forest for the woke trees in Nolan's Odyssey. Yes, the casting of Elliot Page is silly and egregious. But here's the thing: Nolan's "The Odyssey" is an apologia for Christian morality poured into a Greek vase.
The entire movie is rooted in what Nolan terms "Zeus' law." That law is: "Treat others as you would want to be treated, because anyone might be a god." Now, clearly, there's nothing like that in Greek mythology. It's not implicit in Homer. It's a direct rip from Biblical morality, substituting "because anyone might be a god" for "because man was made in the image of God."
Nolan then takes this rule and uses it as his moral glue: the idea is that Odysseus, in utilizing the Trojan Horse, violated Zeus' law and led to full-scale slaughter. That sin has led to the unleashing of broader globalized sin (the "sea peoples" who don't respect Zeus' law and are invading surrounding areas). This is a highly Biblical message: that sin is infectious, and that sin also affects the world at large, not just the sinner.
Odysseus has sinned, and he must atone for that sin through self-imposed exile. He must also sacrifice his own aspirations to restore the possibility of a moral universe: because he has unleashed catastrophic violence and violation of Zeus' law -- manifest in the suitors' cynical use of Zeus' law to eat Penelope out of house and home -- he must violate Zeus' law one last time and then accept the penalty, which is exile.
This is a not only a movie that will make millions of people go read classical literature again. It also reinforces the idea that violation of the Golden Rule has disastrous consequences.
I dunno. I'd consider that, on balance, a large-scale win for civilizational values, when weighed against the woke casting of Elliot Page or the dumbass discussion over whether Lupita Nyongo is good-looking enough (she is, and for the record Diane Kruger is German, not Greek).
Sapper Redux said:Lathspell said:fig96 said:
I'm genuinely confused how the complaints about Page are that they didn't look like a Greek warrior, when the whole point of the character is that they shouldn't have been a Greek warrior.
Oh god... the "they" bull**** makes anything you type immediately ridiculous.
She is a confused woman. This is what I mean when I say most of us reject this ideology and refuse to play along.
There is a tiny woman cast as a Greek male soldier. It's ridiculous. Again, this isn't a community theater production.
Right. Just more ******* behavior. Don't see the movie if hurts you so much to have humans who don't fit your narrow idea of reality.
TCTTS said:FL_Ag1998 said:veryfuller said:
Cool!
Again, just cause PTSD is in it doesn't mean thats the point of the movie. Thats all I'm saying.
Sorry if I'm not being clear, but isn't Nolan's point with his version to show what can happen when mankind reduces itself to warfare (for a cause that the protagonist becomes disillusioned with), and specifically the issues that can have on a personal level?
i.e. in Nolan's version the Vietnam War = sacking of Troy. Our protagonist becomes disillusioned with the leaders and the causes behind it. It causes such a profound affect on him that he indergoes PTSD and has to undergo a personal journey to find his way "home". Ergo, the reviews I'm referring to likened it to the Vietnam War flicks that were popular in the 80s and 90s.
Spoilers, I guess, though most of this has already been covered here and doesn't really get into specifics. Either way, Shapiro is pretty spot-on here, which adds additional context to veryfuller's excellent summary/reply to yours...IMHO, a lot of conservatives are missing the Biblical forest for the woke trees in Nolan's Odyssey. Yes, the casting of Elliot Page is silly and egregious. But here's the thing: Nolan's "The Odyssey" is an apologia for Christian morality poured into a Greek vase.
— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) July 21, 2026
The entire…Quote:
IMHO, a lot of conservatives are missing the Biblical forest for the woke trees in Nolan's Odyssey. Yes, the casting of Elliot Page is silly and egregious. But here's the thing: Nolan's "The Odyssey" is an apologia for Christian morality poured into a Greek vase.
The entire movie is rooted in what Nolan terms "Zeus' law." That law is: "Treat others as you would want to be treated, because anyone might be a god." Now, clearly, there's nothing like that in Greek mythology. It's not implicit in Homer. It's a direct rip from Biblical morality, substituting "because anyone might be a god" for "because man was made in the image of God."
Nolan then takes this rule and uses it as his moral glue: the idea is that Odysseus, in utilizing the Trojan Horse, violated Zeus' law and led to full-scale slaughter. That sin has led to the unleashing of broader globalized sin (the "sea peoples" who don't respect Zeus' law and are invading surrounding areas). This is a highly Biblical message: that sin is infectious, and that sin also affects the world at large, not just the sinner.
Odysseus has sinned, and he must atone for that sin through self-imposed exile. He must also sacrifice his own aspirations to restore the possibility of a moral universe: because he has unleashed catastrophic violence and violation of Zeus' law -- manifest in the suitors' cynical use of Zeus' law to eat Penelope out of house and home -- he must violate Zeus' law one last time and then accept the penalty, which is exile.
This is a not only a movie that will make millions of people go read classical literature again. It also reinforces the idea that violation of the Golden Rule has disastrous consequences.
I dunno. I'd consider that, on balance, a large-scale win for civilizational values, when weighed against the woke casting of Elliot Page or the dumbass discussion over whether Lupita Nyongo is good-looking enough (she is, and for the record Diane Kruger is German, not Greek).
TCTTS said:
That's the great irony here.
One of the most Christian-coded blockbusters ever comes along, and certain so-called "Christians" rage against it because of a couple of minor casting choices that hardly even register while actually watching the movie itself.
The movie is basically a Trojan horse for traditional/Christian values, and a bunch of culture-war-obsessed pearl-clutchers are so consumed by their endless *****ing and moaning that they can't see the forest for the tress.
I got choked up when he just gave up controlLMC2015 said:
Maybe the movie is a bit of a Rorschach test because this was ultimately my takeaway from it as well. The moment that really drove it home (pun intended) was when he was only able to make it home when he turned his fate over to God (or the gods).
One other note that may have already been discussed but I'm not reading the full thread...I thought with all of the references to "anyone might be a god" that Athena might have actually embodied the priestess that was murdered in Troy rather than only being a manifestation of Odysseus's guilt.
Quote:
Maybe if you don't want accusations of racism or bigotry, stop hyper fixating on the black actress because she isn't perfectly white enough.
SECcess12 said:
"This ain't real Greek mythology"
"These aren't true Greek warriors"
"Can't believe they didn't use all white people to portray fake Greek characters"
"I'm triggered for all of eternity"
Backyard Gator said:Quote:
Maybe if you don't want accusations of racism or bigotry, stop hyper fixating on the black actress because she isn't perfectly white enough.
I don't think the issue is that Nyong'o is black, the issue is that she's unattractive bordering on ugly.
If they had cast Beyonce' as Helen, do you think you'd hear a complaint about her skin color?
