TCTTS said:

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And if you were at all paying attention, the tide is already turning against those lunatics, as more and more people are getting fed up with them.

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And why do you think this is?

Because of the "in the middle" people, or the vocal people that call this out for what it is and bring attention to it?

The two extreme sides yelling at each other for the past few years accomplished nothing, other than both sides digging their heels in more and more, escalating the rhetoric to ridiculous levels, etc. Rather, yes, the tide turning now is partly due to the middle finally starting to get fed up with it all as well.

I would argue that the middle would never have gotten fed up with it if not for the ranting of the "far right" or however you want to label it.

They would have just let it keep festering on and on. The vocal minority on both sides can get annoying, overwhelming, whatever adjective you want to use to describe it, but sometimes it's needed to bring attention to things to wake up the "middle".

I think you overestimate the audience that the ranters have.

It's not just the left, though. It's getting sick and tried of all the extreme right bullsh*t as well. Basically, the middle has had it with the extremes on BOTH sides, who dominate the rhetoric, and are constantly trying to one up each other in the crazy department. For every lunatic on the left wanting biological males to compete in women's sports and advocating for eight-year-olds to get sex changes, there's a lunatic on the right pushing Christian nationalism, wanting to ban contraceptives, and accusing anyone they disagree with of being pedophiles. All the while the rest of us are simply finally saying, "Will you people just sh*t the f/ck up already?"

As someone who last voted for president in 1996, and that vote went to my Dad - spoiler alert, he did not win -

let me just throw out the opinion that as long as there are 2 large groups of people in the US who, when they use the name of the other political party / political rhetoric - do so as a swear word, demonize the other group as the worst thing ever, and act like they're ready to strap up and start Civil War 2.0, the rest of us are going to think they are all idiots, with no prejudice towards either side about who the bigger group of idiots is.

The best thing I have done in the last 12 years as a dad is try to follow the examples set by parents and grandparents and the guy who forgave my sins, and roll with that. All the screaming back and forth from the Donkey (not Joey Gallo, who is a saint) and the Elephant, falls on deaf ears.

Not to get too far into politics (spoiler: we're already there) but Jeff Jackson (a Dem congressman from NC who seems like an incredibly level guy) has some great Instagram posts including one today talking about how most of Congress doesn't actually want to solve the pressing problems but keep their bases riled up.

For example, most of the House agrees on steps to be taken that would help curb immigration issues. But any bill sent forward with those steps is poisoned with other not going to pass legislation that makes it DOA so that nothing actually gets done and they get to keep loudly complaining about it.

Bingo.

Outrage is the name of the game, and it's more effective than any other force in politics… or the Entertainment board.

TCTTS said:

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It's not just the left, though. It's getting sick and tried of all the extreme right bullsh*t as well. Basically, the middle has had it with the extremes on BOTH sides, who dominate the rhetoric, and are constantly trying to one up each other in the crazy department. For every lunatic on the left wanting biological males to compete in women's sports and advocating for eight-year-olds to get sex changes, there's a lunatic on the right pushing Christian nationalism, wanting to ban contraceptives, and accusing anyone they disagree with of being pedophiles. All the while the rest of us are simply finally saying, "Will you people just sh*t the f/ck up already?"

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I could not disagree more with this. False equivalency imo. The fringe is so much more rampant on the left than the right. Numerous traditional democrats/liberals would absolutely agree with me (I keep throwing his name out, but think Bill Maher). Until you acknowledge that, I cannot take anything you say seriously, sorry. We are not stupid. It's ok to acknowledge that one side has gone WAY crazier in the last decade. It is what it is.

And yet millions on the left would say the exact same thing, just in the opposite direction. When the truth is, you're both in your respective bubbles, seeing only the world you want to see, choosing to be outraged by only the things you want to be outraged by.

There's like 5 (liberal figure here) people in Washington who would actually like to do something about the ever accelerating destruction of America as we know it, yet the masses keep voting for all of these idiots. Largely due to the bread and circuses of our generation, which includes gays and child trannies and abortion and social media and other similar social bull**** that keeps people from paying attention to the insidious things transpiring that will inevitably cripple this country.

TCTTS said:

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And yet millions on the left would say the exact same thing, just in the opposite direction. When the truth is, you're both in your respective bubbles, seeing only the world you want to see, choosing to be outraged by only the things you want to be outraged by.

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Yea but the entire legacy media apparatus in this country is solidly in the left camp. The arts as well. This plays a major factor in the national narrative.

Sea Speed said:

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TCTTS said:

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And yet millions on the left would say the exact same thing, just in the opposite direction. When the truth is, you're both in your respective bubbles, seeing only the world you want to see, choosing to be outraged by only the things you want to be outraged by.

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Yea but the entire legacy media apparatus in this country is solidly in the left camp. The arts as well. This plays a major factor in the national narrative.

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You know what else plays a "major factor in the national narrative"?

Religion.

For every person who attends a movie or watches a TV series, just as many if not far more show up to church every week, most of them right-leaning individuals, who have their ideologies reinforced just the same.

Not to mention, before a number of posters turned against it, F16 loved to remind us that Fox News garners FAR more viewers than CNN or MSNBC combined.

I won't argue with you that the legacy media apparatus is solidly in the left camp. But to act like it's the only game in town, or that religion/Fox News doesn't have far more influence, is extremely short sighted.

Sea Speed said:

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There's like 5 (liberal figure here) people in Washington who would actually like to do something about the ever accelerating destruction of America as we know it, yet the masses keep voting for all of these idiots. Largely due to the bread and circuses of our generation, which includes gays and child trannies and abortion and social media and other similar social bull**** that keeps people from paying attention to the insidious things transpiring that will inevitably cripple this country.

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I'd happily vote for a more conservative politician who was reasonable and willing to actually listen to the other side and attempt to meet somewhere in the middle. But modern day politics doesn't lend itself to that, we have two uniparties and no one willing to actually compromise with folks they disagree with.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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TCTTS said:

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It's not just the left, though. It's getting sick and tried of all the extreme right bullsh*t as well. Basically, the middle has had it with the extremes on BOTH sides, who dominate the rhetoric, and are constantly trying to one up each other in the crazy department. For every lunatic on the left wanting biological males to compete in women's sports and advocating for eight-year-olds to get sex changes, there's a lunatic on the right pushing Christian nationalism, wanting to ban contraceptives, and accusing anyone they disagree with of being pedophiles. All the while the rest of us are simply finally saying, "Will you people just sh*t the f/ck up already?"

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I could not disagree more with this. False equivalency imo. The fringe is so much more rampant on the left than the right. Numerous traditional democrats/liberals would absolutely agree with me (I keep throwing his name out, but think Bill Maher). Until you acknowledge that, I cannot take anything you say seriously, sorry. We are not stupid. It's ok to acknowledge that one side has gone WAY crazier in the last decade. It is what it is.

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It's not. No matter how many times you repeat it. If there were so many who would agree with you, maybe you could come up with one other example other than Bill Maher's.

"Until you agree with me, i can't take anything you say seriously" is a pretty interesting position to take...

boy09 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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TCTTS said:

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It's not just the left, though. It's getting sick and tried of all the extreme right bullsh*t as well. Basically, the middle has had it with the extremes on BOTH sides, who dominate the rhetoric, and are constantly trying to one up each other in the crazy department. For every lunatic on the left wanting biological males to compete in women's sports and advocating for eight-year-olds to get sex changes, there's a lunatic on the right pushing Christian nationalism, wanting to ban contraceptives, and accusing anyone they disagree with of being pedophiles. All the while the rest of us are simply finally saying, "Will you people just sh*t the f/ck up already?"

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I could not disagree more with this. False equivalency imo. The fringe is so much more rampant on the left than the right. Numerous traditional democrats/liberals would absolutely agree with me (I keep throwing his name out, but think Bill Maher). Until you acknowledge that, I cannot take anything you say seriously, sorry. We are not stupid. It's ok to acknowledge that one side has gone WAY crazier in the last decade. It is what it is.

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It's not. No matter how many times you repeat it. If there were so many who would agree with you, maybe you could come up with one other example other than Bill Maher's.

"Until you agree with me, i can't take anything you say seriously" is a pretty interesting position to take...

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Is that really a far fetched idea? To take two examples given by one individual earlier, which is more fringe and which has higher support on their side:

1) banning contraceptives
2) supporting gender transitions for underage children

To bring this back to Disney ...

I saw an interesting post on X the other day, written about another company facing another issue, that applies.

The poster's point was that corporate controversies keep happening because so many leaders fail to understand both their employer's brand and its customer base. They are so focused on promoting a different agenda -- whether it is a particular social issue, personal growth or their own career -- that they derail the company.

And given today's environment, other leaders are afraid to push back even when it's obvious a train wreck is coming.

I think it's clear that Disney has, in several respects, lost its way because some in leadership don't care about the customs and traditions of the brand or the customer base as a whole, and others stay silent. If Iger can fix that, he deserves his pay.

TCTTS said:

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Please explain to me the premise I'm rejecting. Quote my exact words and tell me what reality I'm not admitting to. Because I'm acknowledging every last complaint, my only pushback is that some here are making a WAY bigger deal about this crap than it deserves, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that their side's sh*t stinks as well.

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YOU don't get to decide that for someone else - to many people it IS a big deal. Both are subjective opinions and you cannot just say that your opinion is more valid than theirs.

I agree with you though the religious right can be pretty crazy. There's some scary stuff a few people post on F16 that I regularly call out when I see it just like I call out the woke garbage as well. I think most Americans would be more libertarian in thinking if there was a non-crazy libertarian party to represent them. Alas, we're stuck in a 2-party system for our foreseeable future.

javajaws said:

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TCTTS said:

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Please explain to me the premise I'm rejecting. Quote my exact words and tell me what reality I'm not admitting to. Because I'm acknowledging every last complaint, my only pushback is that some here are making a WAY bigger deal about this crap than it deserves, while simultaneously ignoring the fact that their side's sh*t stinks as well.

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YOU don't get to decide that for someone else - to many people it IS a big deal. Both are subjective opinions and you cannot just say that your opinion is more valid than theirs.

I agree with you though the religious right can be pretty crazy. There's some scary stuff a few people post on F16 that I regularly call out when I see it just like I call out the woke garbage as well. I think most Americans would be more libertarian in thinking if there was a non-crazy libertarian party to represent them. Alas, we're stuck in a 2-party system for our foreseeable future.

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I'm not deciding anything for anyone. I'm simply stating my opinion, same as everyone else here. That's why I called it "my" pushback. While there are others here assuming their opinions are fact much more than I am.

That said, I'm right there with you, re: the need for something more than the two-party system we currently have

EclipseAg said:

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To bring this back to Disney ...

I saw an interesting post on X the other day, written about another company facing another issue, that applies.

The poster's point was that corporate controversies keep happening because so many leaders fail to understand both their employer's brand and its customer base. They are so focused on promoting a different agenda -- whether it is a particular social issue, personal growth or their own career -- that they derail the company.

And given today's environment, other leaders are afraid to push back even when it's obvious a train wreck is coming.

I think it's clear that Disney has, in several respects, lost its way because some in leadership don't care about the customs and traditions of the brand or the customer base as a whole, and others stay silent. If Iger can fix that, he deserves his pay.

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Yup agreed.

And I'll elaborate on this a little more on something I heard a ways back that I agree with.

Not just Disney...but every company needs diversity of thought at the highest level. And by that I mean, you need a healthy combination of conservative thought, and liberal thought.

The reason for this, is that when companies are made up of mostly conservative thought there is a risk of getting stuck in old ways and not being enough of a risk taker in their market and eventually getting left behind. On the other hand, companies that are made up of mostly liberal thought tend to move too far away from what was always working and taking far too greater of risks and eventually driving away their original customer base.

When both of these methods of thinking and reason have a strong balance and ways of communicating, you end up having a strong business model that can both succeed and have forward thinking without leaving behind the tried and true methods that make the business successful.

Disney has simply gone too far one way. They aren't the first company and they won't be the last. My hope is that they can realize this and start to right the ship. No idea what would be required to make that happen....some seem to think it's Iger. Some seem to think it's the board. Others both. Others seem to think it's other aspects of the company.

I'll keep my personal feelings on this specific line of reasoning to myself but just wanted to throw this out there as a general rule of what could be the cause of what we've been seeing basically since Endgame came out.

TCTTS said:

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Sea Speed said:

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TCTTS said:

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And yet millions on the left would say the exact same thing, just in the opposite direction. When the truth is, you're both in your respective bubbles, seeing only the world you want to see, choosing to be outraged by only the things you want to be outraged by.

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Yea but the entire legacy media apparatus in this country is solidly in the left camp. The arts as well. This plays a major factor in the national narrative.

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You know what else plays a "major factor in the national narrative"?

Religion.

For every person who attends a movie or watches a TV series, just as many if not far more show up to church every week, most of them right-leaning individuals, who have their ideologies reinforced just the same.

Not to mention, before a number of posters turned against it, F16 loved to remind us that Fox News garners FAR more viewers than CNN or MSNBC combined.

I won't argue with you that the legacy media apparatus is solidly in the left camp. But to act like it's the only game in town, or that religion/Fox News doesn't have far more influence, is extremely short sighted.

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You haven't been paying attention to what is going on in the Methodist or Presbyterian church if you think religion is the sole domain of the right.

Please show where I said it was "the sole domain" of the right.

Again, I said "most" church-goers are right-leaning. Not all, of course, not even close.

Hollywood peeps accusing other people of living in "bubbles".

I know this notion would piss TCTTS , Cher, and Joy Behar off…but most people with half a brain and a set of eyeballs realize that the left has moved significantly left over the last decade and, if anything, most of the right has drifted to the center. Trump isn't even a conservative, and is the most anti-war president of our lifetimes. Most of the modern right wants to legalize MJ, is fine with gay marriage (which Obama wasn't, until he was), and really just wants to be left alone…yes, many are against abortion because they actually value unborn human life (similar to how white liberals value unborn reptilian and animal life).

We'll never reach agreement here. Not even close. Just think it's funny how "enlightened" and "above it all" one particular poster thinks he is.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Hollywood peeps accusing other people of living in "bubbles".

I know this notion would piss TCTTS , Cher, and Joy Behar off…but most people with half a brain realize that the left has moved significantly left over the last decade and, if anything, most of the right has drifted to the center. Most of the right wants to legalize MJ, is fine with gay marriage (which Obama wasn't, until he was), and really just wants to be left alone…yes, many are against abortion because they actually value unborn human life (similar to how white liberals value unborn reptilian and animal life).

We'll never reach agreement here. Not even close. Just think it's funny how "enlightened" and "above it all" one particular poster thinks he is.

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Wtf are you blabbering about?

It came out early this morning that Nelson Peltz sold his entire Disney stock for a profit of 1 billion.

That explains a good bit of the stock drop for Disney earlier in May but also shows how inflated that stock was from that proxy battle.

Don't know much about how stock market news works so I'm assuming this stuff always gets reported late as it sounds like this happened at the latest mid April and at the earliest early May.

Curious to see what this does (if anything) to disneys stock today with that news getting dropped officially….

Also that's a lot of monies….

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Just think it's funny how "enlightened" and "above it all" one particular poster thinks he is.

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The irony is thick.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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Just think it's funny how "enlightened" and "above it all" one particular poster thinks he is.

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It's good that you can look in the mirror and see your flaws. Shows some real signs of growth. Bravo.