I could see this line of thinking - the anger at the unaccountability and obfuscation - eventually boiling over into a Congressional/public outrage of sorts, and that's what possibly undoes this whole thing, one way or another…

This is a fantastic interview!

"If this is really going on, it'll be the biggest story in history. Not just U.S history but world history."

~@RepNancyMace

She explains how these career bureaucrats, who never get fired, will just laugh at Congress and not give them what they… https://t.co/nSZpCWMqQj pic.twitter.com/rhplricuiQ

— Joe Murgia (@TheUfoJoe) July 30, 2023

But breitbart

TKEAg04 said:

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aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

---

aTmAg with a vintage aTmAg performance…

- Comes barging in a thread with a ton of bluster, hell bent on taking a stranger or group of strangers down, as if personally wronged or offended him/them.

- Argues with the confidence of someone who has studied the subject for decades, when it's beyond obvious he knows jack sh*t.

- Is shown multiple times by multiple posters where his argument falls objectively short.

- Finally admits that he indeed doesn't know certain core tenets of said subject, to the point where it's ridiculous that he would continue arguing without such knowledge.

- And yet, continues arguing in the most confident, disgruntled fashion, in no way admitting that his lack of knowledge hinders the effectiveness of his argument.

---

What in the hell are you talking about? What thread are you even reading?

What "core tenets" of said subject did I supposedly admit to not knowing? Is an acronym a "core tenet" in your naive bubble?

And BTW, your a HOLLYWOOD guy. You don't know a damn thing about engineering, the DoD, or how classified information works in general.

It's hilarious how whenever I expose UFO morons, you get your panties in a wad. You clearly don't give a damn about facts (or common sense).

---

I have a MS in engineering and have a pretty good grasp on the physics and mathematics of the theoretical capacities of UAP's. I'm extremely open minded about what could be because there is way too much out there in videos and pictures that mirror pretty damn close of what was just put in public record in regards to potential.

I would say that everybody needs to cut the petty bickering and just post what could and what could not provide context to what we are seeing, experiencing and consuming on a seemingly daily basis. The personal attacks are getting pretty damn old from both sides.

/TexAgs is srsbzns.

---

But do you have experience working in classified environments? If you did, you would know what Grusch is pretending to be allowed and not allowed to say makes zero sense.

aTmAg said:

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TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TCTTS said:

---

aTmAg with a vintage aTmAg performance…

- Comes barging in a thread with a ton of bluster, hell bent on taking a stranger or group of strangers down, as if personally wronged or offended him/them.

- Argues with the confidence of someone who has studied the subject for decades, when it's beyond obvious he knows jack sh*t.

- Is shown multiple times by multiple posters where his argument falls objectively short.

- Finally admits that he indeed doesn't know certain core tenets of said subject, to the point where it's ridiculous that he would continue arguing without such knowledge.

- And yet, continues arguing in the most confident, disgruntled fashion, in no way admitting that his lack of knowledge hinders the effectiveness of his argument.

---

What in the hell are you talking about? What thread are you even reading?

What "core tenets" of said subject did I supposedly admit to not knowing? Is an acronym a "core tenet" in your naive bubble?

And BTW, your a HOLLYWOOD guy. You don't know a damn thing about engineering, the DoD, or how classified information works in general.

It's hilarious how whenever I expose UFO morons, you get your panties in a wad. You clearly don't give a damn about facts (or common sense).

---

I have a MS in engineering and have a pretty good grasp on the physics and mathematics of the theoretical capacities of UAP's. I'm extremely open minded about what could be because there is way too much out there in videos and pictures that mirror pretty damn close of what was just put in public record in regards to potential.

I would say that everybody needs to cut the petty bickering and just post what could and what could not provide context to what we are seeing, experiencing and consuming on a seemingly daily basis. The personal attacks are getting pretty damn old from both sides.

/TexAgs is srsbzns.

---

But do you have experience working in classified environments? If you did, you would know what Grusch is pretending to be allowed and not allowed to say makes zero sense.

---

Here's a link to the original news article which brought Grusch into the spotlight: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Here's a quote directly from the article:

" In accordance with protocols, Grusch provided the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review at the Department of Defense with the information he intended to disclose to us. His on-the-record statements were all "cleared for open publication" on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us."

Grusch said the same stuff in the hearing he did in the article and his News Nation interview. When pressed for more during the hearing he said he couldn't divulge that info in an unclassified hearing.

aTmAg said:

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TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TCTTS said:

---

aTmAg with a vintage aTmAg performance…

- Comes barging in a thread with a ton of bluster, hell bent on taking a stranger or group of strangers down, as if personally wronged or offended him/them.

- Argues with the confidence of someone who has studied the subject for decades, when it's beyond obvious he knows jack sh*t.

- Is shown multiple times by multiple posters where his argument falls objectively short.

- Finally admits that he indeed doesn't know certain core tenets of said subject, to the point where it's ridiculous that he would continue arguing without such knowledge.

- And yet, continues arguing in the most confident, disgruntled fashion, in no way admitting that his lack of knowledge hinders the effectiveness of his argument.

---

What in the hell are you talking about? What thread are you even reading?

What "core tenets" of said subject did I supposedly admit to not knowing? Is an acronym a "core tenet" in your naive bubble?

And BTW, your a HOLLYWOOD guy. You don't know a damn thing about engineering, the DoD, or how classified information works in general.

It's hilarious how whenever I expose UFO morons, you get your panties in a wad. You clearly don't give a damn about facts (or common sense).

---

I have a MS in engineering and have a pretty good grasp on the physics and mathematics of the theoretical capacities of UAP's. I'm extremely open minded about what could be because there is way too much out there in videos and pictures that mirror pretty damn close of what was just put in public record in regards to potential.

I would say that everybody needs to cut the petty bickering and just post what could and what could not provide context to what we are seeing, experiencing and consuming on a seemingly daily basis. The personal attacks are getting pretty damn old from both sides.

/TexAgs is srsbzns.

---

But do you have experience working in classified environments? If you did, you would know what Grusch is pretending to be allowed and not allowed to say makes zero sense.

---

No I do not have experience with that. I'm only speaking on videos and testimony and correlating how these UAP's appear to function and fly.

We're all speaking on something that doesn't make sense from all angles. Skepticism is to be undoubtedly had.

TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TCTTS said:

---

aTmAg with a vintage aTmAg performance…

- Comes barging in a thread with a ton of bluster, hell bent on taking a stranger or group of strangers down, as if personally wronged or offended him/them.

- Argues with the confidence of someone who has studied the subject for decades, when it's beyond obvious he knows jack sh*t.

- Is shown multiple times by multiple posters where his argument falls objectively short.

- Finally admits that he indeed doesn't know certain core tenets of said subject, to the point where it's ridiculous that he would continue arguing without such knowledge.

- And yet, continues arguing in the most confident, disgruntled fashion, in no way admitting that his lack of knowledge hinders the effectiveness of his argument.

---

What in the hell are you talking about? What thread are you even reading?

What "core tenets" of said subject did I supposedly admit to not knowing? Is an acronym a "core tenet" in your naive bubble?

And BTW, your a HOLLYWOOD guy. You don't know a damn thing about engineering, the DoD, or how classified information works in general.

It's hilarious how whenever I expose UFO morons, you get your panties in a wad. You clearly don't give a damn about facts (or common sense).

---

I have a MS in engineering and have a pretty good grasp on the physics and mathematics of the theoretical capacities of UAP's. I'm extremely open minded about what could be because there is way too much out there in videos and pictures that mirror pretty damn close of what was just put in public record in regards to potential.

I would say that everybody needs to cut the petty bickering and just post what could and what could not provide context to what we are seeing, experiencing and consuming on a seemingly daily basis. The personal attacks are getting pretty damn old from both sides.

/TexAgs is srsbzns.

---

But do you have experience working in classified environments? If you did, you would know what Grusch is pretending to be allowed and not allowed to say makes zero sense.

---

No I do not have experience with that. I'm only speaking on videos and testimony and correlating how these UAP's appear to function and fly.

We're all speaking on something that doesn't make sense from all angles. Skepticism is to be undoubtedly had.

---

So I used to work on TFLIR in a past life. And as an example, those 60 minute videos from a while back do NOT show UAPs accelerating beyond human capability or anything like that. They are just losing point track.

And what Gaetz said in the hearing about the TFLIR also made no sense. He said the TFLIR (probably EOTS) stopped working, but that they got another "lens" or something on it. Well what was that other lens? These planes only have one TFLIR. And the pilot controlled slew uses the exact same motors that the computer uses. It's not like the pilot can manipulate them by hand or anything. So if the system stopped working, then why would it allow pilot to slew and take a picture? That makes no sense. The F-35 has DAS too, but there is no way it could see anything far away. That looks 360 around the aircraft to spot missile plumes and whatnot. So did the pilot use an iPhone or something?

Now, I'm not calling Gaetz a liar, or anything. There is no way he would know any of this stuff. But something doesn't jive about that story.

aTmAg said:

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TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TCTTS said:

---

aTmAg with a vintage aTmAg performance…

- Comes barging in a thread with a ton of bluster, hell bent on taking a stranger or group of strangers down, as if personally wronged or offended him/them.

- Argues with the confidence of someone who has studied the subject for decades, when it's beyond obvious he knows jack sh*t.

- Is shown multiple times by multiple posters where his argument falls objectively short.

- Finally admits that he indeed doesn't know certain core tenets of said subject, to the point where it's ridiculous that he would continue arguing without such knowledge.

- And yet, continues arguing in the most confident, disgruntled fashion, in no way admitting that his lack of knowledge hinders the effectiveness of his argument.

---

What in the hell are you talking about? What thread are you even reading?

What "core tenets" of said subject did I supposedly admit to not knowing? Is an acronym a "core tenet" in your naive bubble?

And BTW, your a HOLLYWOOD guy. You don't know a damn thing about engineering, the DoD, or how classified information works in general.

It's hilarious how whenever I expose UFO morons, you get your panties in a wad. You clearly don't give a damn about facts (or common sense).

---

I have a MS in engineering and have a pretty good grasp on the physics and mathematics of the theoretical capacities of UAP's. I'm extremely open minded about what could be because there is way too much out there in videos and pictures that mirror pretty damn close of what was just put in public record in regards to potential.

I would say that everybody needs to cut the petty bickering and just post what could and what could not provide context to what we are seeing, experiencing and consuming on a seemingly daily basis. The personal attacks are getting pretty damn old from both sides.

/TexAgs is srsbzns.

---

But do you have experience working in classified environments? If you did, you would know what Grusch is pretending to be allowed and not allowed to say makes zero sense.

---

No I do not have experience with that. I'm only speaking on videos and testimony and correlating how these UAP's appear to function and fly.

We're all speaking on something that doesn't make sense from all angles. Skepticism is to be undoubtedly had.

---

So I used to work on TFLIR in a past life. And as an example, those 60 minute videos from a while back do NOT show UAPs accelerating beyond human capability or anything like that. They are just losing point track.

And what Gaetz said in the hearing about the TFLIR also made no sense. He said the TFLIR (probably EOTS) stopped working, but that they got another "lens" or something on it. Well what was that other lens? These planes only have one TFLIR. And the pilot controlled slew uses the exact same motors that the computer uses. It's not like the pilot can manipulate them by hand or anything. So if the system stopped working, then why would it allow pilot to slew and take a picture? That makes no sense. The F-35 has DAS too, but there is no way it could see anything far away. That looks 360 around the aircraft to spot missile plumes and whatnot. So did the pilot use an iPhone or something?

Now, I'm not calling Gaetz a liar, or anything. There is no way he would know any of this stuff. But something doesn't jive about that story.

---

Tracking or not - the only thing that truly captivates me is how a small sphere can fly, propel itself, change directions on a dime and accelerate far faster than what they human body can handle.

Here is a debrief by what looks to be a general/admiral in intelligence that was looking for more info about the crashed UAP program. Much of what was said is that they are keeping these secrets in defense contractors and they can stonewall this easily by keeping the majority out of congress and government oversight. IMO this is where the truth will be had.

https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114761/documents/HHRG-117-IG05-20220517-SD001.pdf

it's a no win shell game.
Even if congress is told where the bodies are, what are they going to do, have the Green Berets invade an Air Force base to seize them?
Show up at the gate (like NIxon and Jackie Gleason :-) and demand to be taken to the bodies?

TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TKEAg04 said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

TCTTS said:

---

aTmAg with a vintage aTmAg performance…

- Comes barging in a thread with a ton of bluster, hell bent on taking a stranger or group of strangers down, as if personally wronged or offended him/them.

- Argues with the confidence of someone who has studied the subject for decades, when it's beyond obvious he knows jack sh*t.

- Is shown multiple times by multiple posters where his argument falls objectively short.

- Finally admits that he indeed doesn't know certain core tenets of said subject, to the point where it's ridiculous that he would continue arguing without such knowledge.

- And yet, continues arguing in the most confident, disgruntled fashion, in no way admitting that his lack of knowledge hinders the effectiveness of his argument.

---

What in the hell are you talking about? What thread are you even reading?

What "core tenets" of said subject did I supposedly admit to not knowing? Is an acronym a "core tenet" in your naive bubble?

And BTW, your a HOLLYWOOD guy. You don't know a damn thing about engineering, the DoD, or how classified information works in general.

It's hilarious how whenever I expose UFO morons, you get your panties in a wad. You clearly don't give a damn about facts (or common sense).

---

I have a MS in engineering and have a pretty good grasp on the physics and mathematics of the theoretical capacities of UAP's. I'm extremely open minded about what could be because there is way too much out there in videos and pictures that mirror pretty damn close of what was just put in public record in regards to potential.

I would say that everybody needs to cut the petty bickering and just post what could and what could not provide context to what we are seeing, experiencing and consuming on a seemingly daily basis. The personal attacks are getting pretty damn old from both sides.

/TexAgs is srsbzns.

---

But do you have experience working in classified environments? If you did, you would know what Grusch is pretending to be allowed and not allowed to say makes zero sense.

---

No I do not have experience with that. I'm only speaking on videos and testimony and correlating how these UAP's appear to function and fly.

We're all speaking on something that doesn't make sense from all angles. Skepticism is to be undoubtedly had.

---

So I used to work on TFLIR in a past life. And as an example, those 60 minute videos from a while back do NOT show UAPs accelerating beyond human capability or anything like that. They are just losing point track.

And what Gaetz said in the hearing about the TFLIR also made no sense. He said the TFLIR (probably EOTS) stopped working, but that they got another "lens" or something on it. Well what was that other lens? These planes only have one TFLIR. And the pilot controlled slew uses the exact same motors that the computer uses. It's not like the pilot can manipulate them by hand or anything. So if the system stopped working, then why would it allow pilot to slew and take a picture? That makes no sense. The F-35 has DAS too, but there is no way it could see anything far away. That looks 360 around the aircraft to spot missile plumes and whatnot. So did the pilot use an iPhone or something?

Now, I'm not calling Gaetz a liar, or anything. There is no way he would know any of this stuff. But something doesn't jive about that story.

---

Tracking or not - the only thing that truly captivates me is how a small sphere can fly, propel itself, change directions on a dime and accelerate far faster than what they human body can handle.

Here is a debrief by what looks to be a general/admiral in intelligence that was looking for more info about the crashed UAP program. Much of what was said is that they are keeping these secrets in defense contractors and they can stonewall this easily by keeping the majority out of congress and government oversight. IMO this is where the truth will be had.

https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114761/documents/HHRG-117-IG05-20220517-SD001.pdf

---

You aren't understanding what I mean by tracking. TFLIR systems have a mode called "point track". Where it moves the mirrors in order to keep the target in the center of the frame. When you lose track, the lenses stay stationary and the relative movement of both aircraft makes the target jump out of frame. It's like using a really long zoom camera to focus on a snail. If you bump the lens, the snaill looks like if moves at Mach 10 off the frame. Of course, it didn't really. It's just a snail. The camera is what moved.

Regarding that link you sent, where are the classification markings? They should be on every page. And I don't recognize that emblem. What is that?

Sea Speed said:

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I agree with almost all you are saying but my premise was specifically predicated on the fact that we exist at the pleasure of another species. I guess that creation and what not could just shift to the left and be applied to how the other beings came to exist and continue down that path. One of the fundamental questions of philosophy pertains to the morality of man and whether it is innate or learned. Now I guess it could continue to be innate, but those people that believe that it is derived from the teachings of god would have to completely reevaluate their belief systems imo.

This is way more of a thought exercise than something that would we would see in our lives though and you are right, probably not suited for this thread. There are a lot of fun thought exercise like this though. Like what if humans have been created millions of times under the watchful eye of our alien creators with the hope that one day we reach enlightenment or don't kill ourselves off through war etc and we are just about at the point in our existence where we either sink or swim. If we sink, either they wipe us out and start over or we do it to ourselves. Hell we could be one of an infinite number of human colony experiments going on simultaneously in the universe. Who knows! I'll just keep on keeping on.

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Oh for sure, I'm sorry if I didn't get that part clearly. That's basically what I said a few pages back as well. And I totally agree that as a species it would stunt us in an unbelievable way to know that anything we do or not do is purely "allowed" by our zoo keepers. I apologize again because yeah, I see it the same way. A zoo animal might technically live a safe and uneventful life, but at the same time there's no motivation to do anything and even though you're freely existing you also know that the keepers can euthanize you any time they want. Who the hell wants that??

They'll do whatever they can to get a photo op or soundbite to gain favor with voters

Understood about the FLIR and tracking. I'm not discounting that at all. I'm also not sure about markings in that doc that's being floated around twitter. It points to defense contractors keeping this secret away from oversight which ties in directly to what is being discussed in public now.

TCTTS said:

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I definitely took it mean that he and his wife witnessed harassment of some sort, from humans. We know that his house was broken into and that he's been threatened numerous times, so I'm guessing he's referring to one of those instances.

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I agree your take makes the most sense, but it is confusing because even rewatching it in that short clip the context seems to be otherwise.

Mr President Elect said:

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No, I am saying that him and his wife have witnessed harmful or threatning activity by other humans. If I had to guess, I would assume it is related to his and his families safety regarding him being a whistleblower. It was pretty vague, as a lot of his statements have been, and does warrant further explanation imo.

He has specifically mentioned that he hasn't seen ufo's out in the wild.

The clip in my reply is the full hearing marked at the question mentioned.

---

I got you, even in the longer video it's still pretty ambiguous so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Because even right after his answer the congressman gives a long pause before saying ok because I don't think he was sure of the answer either.

Mr President Elect said:

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aTmAg said:

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That is not at ALL what the question asked. And it's not like his answer confusingly answered something else to imply he didn't hear the question. His answer made perfect sense in the context of the question that was asked.

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I disagree. He isn't even a first hand witness, so now him and his wife are both first-hand witnessing threatening / harmful alien behavior?

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Agreed, but he did say or at least strongly implied that he's seen images though, right? Again, I need to go back and watch, I might do that this weekend.

redline248 said:

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I'm not going to go hard to bat for the guy, but it's possible he misunderstood the question. That happened at least once with Fravor, as well.


I will add that, at times, it felt to me like Grusch was trying a little hard to "sell" his statements.

---

Yeah, I think to a degree the problem was that the congressman asking the questions and Grusch answering them both seemed to just not be in sync. So Grusch seemed like he was answering two questions at once and then as I said the congressman gave a pause and an "ok" like it wasn't quite clear to him either. If any question needed a follow up to clarify it was that one.

Quote:

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Oh for sure, I'm sorry if I didn't get that part clearly. That's basically what I said a few pages back as well. And I totally agree that as a species it would stunt us in an unbelievable way to know that anything we do or not do is purely "allowed" by our zoo keepers. I apologize again because yeah, I see it the same way. A zoo animal might technically live a safe and uneventful life, but at the same time there's no motivation to do anything and even though you're freely existing you also know that the keepers can euthanize you any time they want. Who the hell wants that??

---

I saw one Redditor compare it more to a Wildlife Preserve/Sanctuary.

Agristotle said:

---

it's a no win shell game.
Even if congress is told where the bodies are, what are they going to do, have the Green Berets invade an Air Force base to seize them?
Show up at the gate (like NIxon and Jackie Gleason :-) and demand to be taken to the bodies?

---

Yeah, I said pages ago that even though it's obviously unrealistic technically the only way to just end this in a satisfying way for either side was for them all, congressmen, news media, investigative reporters, law enforcement, everyone, to follow Grusch in a convoy to the site that he has specific knowledge of that very morning.

I mean, it's completely silly for Grusch to say in congress and live on TV "I know exactly where the ships and bodies are and I'll tell you after the hearing in private."

What for??? Does anyone think the FBI in a public hearing on TV would tell congress that they know where a warehouse of cartel cocaine is stored and that they'll be raiding it at some point in the near future?

Lord Goldeneyes said:

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Quote:

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Oh for sure, I'm sorry if I didn't get that part clearly. That's basically what I said a few pages back as well. And I totally agree that as a species it would stunt us in an unbelievable way to know that anything we do or not do is purely "allowed" by our zoo keepers. I apologize again because yeah, I see it the same way. A zoo animal might technically live a safe and uneventful life, but at the same time there's no motivation to do anything and even though you're freely existing you also know that the keepers can euthanize you any time they want. Who the hell wants that??

---

I saw one Redditor compare it more to a Wildlife Preserve/Sanctuary.

---

There are a ton of people who absolutely love to be controlled and even more important to have others controlled, and giving up all freedom and free will is a small price to pay for them.

All of those belief scenarios I've described are about exactly that. Mother Nature will punish those others who won't behave the way I want them to, one god or another will punish those other people for not behaving the way I want them to, an all-powerful totalitarian state will punish those other people for not behaving how I want them to, and now this particular fantasy is for aliens to come down and force us to behave the way some want us to. If I randomly click on the of Newsnation videos it'll be littered with comments wishing for the aliens to take our weapons away and force us to behave and so on. Screw that self-loathing submissive crap.

Duncan Trussell Family Hour has the guy Bledsoe's son on. Bledsoe is the guy that has claimed significant and ongoing sightings and interactions.

If you are interested in religion and spirituality, the DTFH is fantastic. And funny.

This is what we are up against...

Aztec1948 said:

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This is what we are up against...

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Fear of perjury charges?

aTmAg said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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This is what we are up against...

---

Fear of perjury charges?

---

Most believe it's fear of retribution against the witnesses. This could get nasty before it gets better. David has some serious allegations on the record.

Don't think this was posted here, but the new NDAA passed unanimously in the Senate last week. Included in this NDAA is the "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023." Included in this NDAA are 20+ references to non-human intelligence.

https://www.congress.gov/amendment/118th-congress/senate-amendment/935/text

Oh no, it's the Son of WOPR!

Even you guys who are fully committed to this whole idea have to admit that this title is hilarious. This guy is everywhere and doing no one any favors who wants this taken seriously in my opinion. He sure is popular though.





Dr. Steven Greer: The Tech Displayed in 1960s Cartoon "The Jetsons" Existed Back Then

dammit, wrong thread