Wrec86 Ag said:

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But are still a fraction of a fraction of the power that a type 1 or 2 civilization could harness.

We're the anthill that discovered the firework. We can destroy our own little world if we use it wrong, but pose no threat to the car driving down the highway. (Aliens that could travel to us)

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Very well put.

I believe both we traveled to the moon and the reality of entities is why we stopped. Second, and related, look into arguments about a nuclear-type destruction on Mars. (Sounds outrageous, but check-in on that after formal, widespread disclosure).

I'm less interested in arguing those points than in saying they are increasingly reasonable, and that it would then be reasonable for entities to interfere after such a line was crossed, which we did within living memory.

Redstone said:

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I believe both we traveled to the moon and the reality of entities is why we stopped. Second, and related, look into arguments about a nuclear-type destruction on Mars. (Sounds outrageous, but check-in on that after formal, widespread disclosure).

I'm less interested in arguing those points than in saying they are increasingly reasonable, and that it would then be reasonable for entities to interfere after such a line was crossed, which we did within living memory.

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Ok, I do understand your argument. I disagree but I fully get what you're saying.

On a funny note someone I knew back in my 20s was a super worrier about lots of things and once was complaining about the militarization of space and being terrified that nukes could be tested (which they have) or used up there because they would "pollute space with all that radiation".

I could barely contain my laughter. It'd be like being on a boat in the ocean and spilling your drink overboard and worrying that you got the ocean wet, haha!

I watched a video today with a guy "debunking" the tic tac video.

A very good review and summary of the historic congressional hearing:

Sea Speed said:

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You have no idea if they know the truth or any large or small fraction of the truth. You have faith just like a religious person has faith. You're speaking like anything to do with ufos is an objective truth and the bottom line is that is isn't. We are not closer today than we were last week or last month or last year to having any definitive no **** this is real proof. What you believe is still faith based.

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A) I've gone out of my way to caveat nearly every post of mine with dozens of variations of "if true" or "assuming this is even real" over and over and over again in this thread. To the point where I was doing it so much that I've made a conscious effort as of late to pull back in that regard because I literally thought that those caveats weren't necessary anymore, that by now everyone here understands where I'm coming from, etc. But sure enough, the second I stop, one of you has to immediately harp on me for speaking in absolutes, telling me for the hundredth time that I have "faith" just like any religious person does. First of all… no sh*t. Obviously, nothing regarding this subject has been proven beyond a shadow a doubt, hence I've never said anything to the contrary, re: me having "faith" that the phenomenon is real. Secondly, AGAIN, despite my belief that the phenomenon is real, 95% of the time I go out of my way to essentially say, "I believe [X], but who knows?"

B) I've said countless times in this thread that this process will lead to either people like Grusch being proven right or people like Grusch being proven wrong, so why can't we just let the process play out to see which it is? Yet some of you are so hellbent on being naysayers that you can't even sit back, accept such a logical process, and let the chips fall where they may. You guys have to keep demanding proof right this second, and keep telling us how it's all a bunch of bunk, etc, when we finally have a scenario in place where the truth is ultimately going to come out, one way or another. Grusch says he wants his claims tested, no matter the outcome, while a number of us are rooting for his claims to be tested, no matter the outcome, while the powers-that-be are saying they're going to test his claims, no matter the outcome, yet for some reason that's not good enough? If I can take a wait-and-see approach, why can't some of you?

C) I'm sorry, but if you don't think we're any closer to that truth, whatever it might be, you either aren't paying full attention, or aren't informed of the full picture/context, given what's transpired the last six years. To suggest that we're not is wildly inaccurate, and shows the same bias you're accusing me of having, but on the opposite side.

Sea Speed said:

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Its just the next man up telling people what they want to hear until something concrete can be provided. "Disclosure is a process". The only reason people accept that is because they are firm believers so will make any number of excuses why it hasn't happened YET. But it totally will. Totally. That anyone trusts the govt to definitely be doing what is right and trying to get all of this above board and not be looking out for their own self interests first is just wild to me.

Having all of this blind faith in what you believe while chastising and berating others that don't hold your same beliefs is the exact same as the religious folks. The believers on this thread are basically unwilling to accept and listen to any dissenting thoughts or opinions. To be SO SURE that this is aliens requires just as much, if not more faith as someone that believes in God.

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This whole "faith" thing you keep bringing up not only feels like an ulterior motive at this point, but you're getting defensive for absolutely no reason. No one is "chastising and berating" anyone for not believing. Rather, we're simply pointing out when certain facts are left out of certain debunker/skeptic arguments, or when certain dots aren't connected, while we're also asking certain people here to let this process play out, a process introduced this summer that is unprecedented in the 80-year history of this subject. Personally, I don't give a sh*t if you or anyone else doesn't believe. It's when people express their disbelief with what I feel is inaccurate information that I'm going to push back here and there.

It's a message board, after all. People are going to have different opinions, and back-and-forth discussion is going to be had based on those different opinions. It's like you're annoyed by the very point of what we're all doing here.

No, I'm referring to speculation based on materials-analysis that I and many others hope is prioritized in future research.

Quote:

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. It's like you're annoyed by the very point of what we're all doing here.

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Welcome to Sea Speed's posting.

The UFO/UAP "believers" has been a religion (or cult) of sorts for a while now.

However I'm not sure we, as Aggies, have the high ground there.

I've listened to parts of the testimony of the Grusch dude and he is completely full of crap.

If he was saying classified crap that he was briefed to, then he'd be in jail today. You can't tell that crap to your wife, never mind the entire country in a hearing. If he wasn't briefed and is just saying stuff that he has heard from others, then he is not limited at all. Why does he stop short on so many questions by saying "I can't get into specifics in an open environment." Why not? If he is there at all, there is nothing holding him back. Classification guides wouldn't specify, "you can acknowledge that aliens activities have harmed humans and say it is 'disturbing', but you can't acknowledge WHAT those activities are." They would simply disallow anything about it being divulged at all.

There is ZERO middle ground. Either you are given specific permission to talk about stuff, or you are not. If DoD was giving permission, then they wouldn't delegate it to some "former AF intel" major. They would use somebody official.

Furthermore, in one of his answers, he mentions not wanting to divulge "tradecraft", when the question had nothing to do with tradecraft. Tradecraft are techniques that spies use to obtain information and to protect themselves. Like, if you want to see if you are being followed? Go down subway stairs, then at the very bottom turn back around and go right back up. Then memorize the faces you see coming down. If you are being followed, then you probably just burned them. That's not at all what the congressmen were asking. And it's damn easy to answer their questions without getting into tradecraft. It's like he was watching spy movies, and was randomly tossing in terms he heard to make is sound good.

It's like he thought Air Force intel would be like James Bond, but was disappointed to find out that it's really about learning boring stuff like what radar modes a particular Russian radar uses or where a target is located. So he read spy novels to make up for it.

And in the same answer he talked about his wife seeing the evidence. Why in the hell would he show her, but not want to talk about it to congress? If it's really classified and can't be told to congress, then he sure as hell can't tell his wife. And you SURE AS HELL don't admit in open that you showed your wife, as that would be publicly admitting to a felony.

Totally full of crap.

TCTTS said:

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Yet again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Just ranting to rant, per usual. The Whistleblower Protection Act of 2022 was passed last December, and specifically protects people like Grusch in coming forward to the proper authorities, like the Senate Intelligence Committee.

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The Whitlseblower act doesn't allow disclosure of classified information.

I know you WANT it to be true, but use your brain for a change.

Yes, it does. To those with the proper clearances.

TCTTS said:

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Yes, it does. To those with the proper clearances.

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If you are saying, "people with clearances can divulge classified information under the Whistleblower act." Then you are wrong. And you should read it.

If you are saying "they can divulge classified information to only people who are also cleared", then sorry to break it to you, but not everybody within the entire viewing audience of the a televised hearing is cleared. That should be obvious.

TCTTS said:

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Sea Speed said:

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You have no idea if they know the truth or any large or small fraction of the truth. You have faith just like a religious person has faith. You're speaking like anything to do with ufos is an objective truth and the bottom line is that is isn't. We are not closer today than we were last week or last month or last year to having any definitive no **** this is real proof. What you believe is still faith based.

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A) I've gone out of my way to caveat nearly every post of mine with dozens of variations of "if true" or "assuming this is even real" over and over and over again in this thread. To the point where I was doing it so much that I've made a conscious effort as of late to pull back in that regard because I literally thought that those caveats weren't necessary anymore, that by now everyone here understands where I'm coming from, etc. But sure enough, the second I stop, one of you has to immediately harp on me for speaking in absolutes, telling me for the hundredth time that I have "faith" just like any religious person does. First of all… no sh*t. Obviously, nothing regarding this subject has been proven beyond a shadow a doubt, hence I've never said anything to the contrary, re: me having "faith" that the phenomenon is real. Secondly, AGAIN, despite my belief that the phenomenon is real, 95% of the time I go out of my way to essentially say, "I believe [X], but who knows?"

B) I've said countless times in this thread that this process will lead to either people like Grusch being proven right or people like Grusch being proven wrong, so why can't we just let the process play out to see which it is? Yet some of you are so hellbent on being naysayers that you can't even sit back, accept such a logical process, and let the chips fall where they may. You guys have to keep demanding proof right this second, and keep telling us how it's all a bunch of bunk, etc, when we finally have a scenario in place where the truth is ultimately going to come out, one way or another. Grusch says he wants his claims tested, no matter the outcome, while a number of us are rooting for his claims to be tested, no matter the outcome, while the powers-that-be are saying they're going to test his claims, no matter the outcome, yet for some reason that's not good enough? If I can take a wait-and-see approach, why can't some of you?

C) I'm sorry, but if you don't think we're any closer to that truth, whatever it might be, you either aren't paying full attention, or aren't informed of the full picture/context, given what's transpired the last six years. To suggest that we're not is wildly inaccurate, and shows the same bias you're accusing me of having, but on the opposite side.

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You're right, you absolutely have and I totally understand that.

And on my side I completely understand the fascination you guys have, I really do. I've loved both hard science and science fiction my whole life and the whole idea of whether or not something else intelligent is out there and if so what they are and how many there are and such is something I've spent a lot of time thinking about. It's a very legitimate question and it's the biggest mystery there is. There's also nothing inherently wrong with pursuing this particular mystery we're currently talking about and I do fully read the links you post, and I've watched many of the videos and documentaries too. If there's something to it then I want to know.

I do think it's is the wrong angle but it doesn't hurt my time for others to look into it and if it turns out it's true then great, it's true. In the meantime, we're learning so much that's measurable and testable with the James Webb telescope and other recent and upcoming space missions I just think that ultimately will be the way we determine the context of our existence. But it's certainly possible I'm wrong too.

Right. Clearly I'm saying the former. Of course Grusch can't divulge classified info on national TV, as he made clear over and over again.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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The UFO/UAP "believers" has been a religion (or cult) of sorts for a while now.

However I'm not sure we, as Aggies, have the high ground there.

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I'm not an Aggie, is that ok if I disclose that here and now?

TCTTS said:

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Right. Clearly I'm saying the former. Of course Grusch can't divulge classified info on national TV, as he made clear over and over again.

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You mean the latter. The former would imply that somebody could divulge classified info as long as they call themselves a whistle blower first. The notion is preposterous.

The latter would imply that DoD declassified it first. Then you would have to believe that they did so just so this random former AF intell major would be able to divulge it to congress. Rather than they themselves divulge it on their own terms via the DoD public affairs office.

Furthermore, you would have to believe that they gave him permission to divulge it to his WIFE. And that they declassified just enough for him to say that aliens activities have harmed humans to the point that it is "disturbing", but NOT acknowledge WHAT those activities are. There is simply no way in hell.

This guy has no credibility.

aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Right. Clearly I'm saying the former. Of course Grusch can't divulge classified info on national TV, as he made clear over and over again.

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You mean the latter. The former would imply that somebody could divulge classified info as long as they call themselves a whistle blower first. The notion is preposterous.

The latter would imply that DoD declassified it first. Then you would have to believe that they did so just so this random former AF intell major would be able to divulge it to congress. Rather than they themselves divulge it on their own terms via the DoD public affairs office.

Furthermore, you would have to believe that they gave him permission to divulge it to his WIFE. And that they declassified just enough for him to say that aliens activities have harmed humans to the point that it is "disturbing", but NOT acknowledge WHAT those activities are. There is simply no way in hell.

This guy has no credibility.

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I need to go back and watch all that again, because watching it live I definitely jumped up when he mentioned that he and his wife had seen disturbing things or something. I couldn't believe what he said. Then afterwards I just told myself that maybe I confused his answer about what UFO evidence he had seen with the other question about threats that he had received, and he was saying he and his wife saw disturbing things regarding threats to him. Was it actually the former? Because if so then yeah, that's a serious **** up, both doing it and saying it.

Joes said:

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aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Right. Clearly I'm saying the former. Of course Grusch can't divulge classified info on national TV, as he made clear over and over again.

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You mean the latter. The former would imply that somebody could divulge classified info as long as they call themselves a whistle blower first. The notion is preposterous.

The latter would imply that DoD declassified it first. Then you would have to believe that they did so just so this random former AF intell major would be able to divulge it to congress. Rather than they themselves divulge it on their own terms via the DoD public affairs office.

Furthermore, you would have to believe that they gave him permission to divulge it to his WIFE. And that they declassified just enough for him to say that aliens activities have harmed humans to the point that it is "disturbing", but NOT acknowledge WHAT those activities are. There is simply no way in hell.

This guy has no credibility.

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I need to go back and watch all that again, because watching it live I definitely jumped up when he mentioned that he and his wife had seen disturbing things or something. I couldn't believe what he said. Then afterwards I just told myself that maybe I confused his answer about what UFO evidence he had seen with the other question about threats that he had received, and he was saying he and his wife saw disturbing things regarding threats to him. Was it actually the former? Because if so then yeah, that's a serious **** up, both doing it and saying it.

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He was answering a question about aliens and their technology harming humans. I can't see how he would be confused on what was being asked. It's clear he's not talking about threats to him or anything like that:

aTmAg said:

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Joes said:

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aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Right. Clearly I'm saying the former. Of course Grusch can't divulge classified info on national TV, as he made clear over and over again.

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You mean the latter. The former would imply that somebody could divulge classified info as long as they call themselves a whistle blower first. The notion is preposterous.

The latter would imply that DoD declassified it first. Then you would have to believe that they did so just so this random former AF intell major would be able to divulge it to congress. Rather than they themselves divulge it on their own terms via the DoD public affairs office.

Furthermore, you would have to believe that they gave him permission to divulge it to his WIFE. And that they declassified just enough for him to say that aliens activities have harmed humans to the point that it is "disturbing", but NOT acknowledge WHAT those activities are. There is simply no way in hell.

This guy has no credibility.

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I need to go back and watch all that again, because watching it live I definitely jumped up when he mentioned that he and his wife had seen disturbing things or something. I couldn't believe what he said. Then afterwards I just told myself that maybe I confused his answer about what UFO evidence he had seen with the other question about threats that he had received, and he was saying he and his wife saw disturbing things regarding threats to him. Was it actually the former? Because if so then yeah, that's a serious **** up, both doing it and saying it.

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He was answering a question about aliens and their technology harming humans. I can't see how he would be confused on what was being asked. It's clear he's not talking about threats to him or anything like that:

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Ok, as I said I was watching it live and so I didn't rewind it right after he talked about his wife and then afterwards is when I just assumed that I got confused. I'll watch that again later today. If you're right then my original shock was justified. If he just openly said he shared those kinds of details with his wife that's kind of a deal killer.

Oh nevermind, I just realized that it's only 30 seconds, haha! I thought it was his whole testimony. Yeah, that is almost hard to believe even rewatching it. Wow.

Joes said:

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aTmAg said:

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Joes said:

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aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Right. Clearly I'm saying the former. Of course Grusch can't divulge classified info on national TV, as he made clear over and over again.

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You mean the latter. The former would imply that somebody could divulge classified info as long as they call themselves a whistle blower first. The notion is preposterous.

The latter would imply that DoD declassified it first. Then you would have to believe that they did so just so this random former AF intell major would be able to divulge it to congress. Rather than they themselves divulge it on their own terms via the DoD public affairs office.

Furthermore, you would have to believe that they gave him permission to divulge it to his WIFE. And that they declassified just enough for him to say that aliens activities have harmed humans to the point that it is "disturbing", but NOT acknowledge WHAT those activities are. There is simply no way in hell.

This guy has no credibility.

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I need to go back and watch all that again, because watching it live I definitely jumped up when he mentioned that he and his wife had seen disturbing things or something. I couldn't believe what he said. Then afterwards I just told myself that maybe I confused his answer about what UFO evidence he had seen with the other question about threats that he had received, and he was saying he and his wife saw disturbing things regarding threats to him. Was it actually the former? Because if so then yeah, that's a serious **** up, both doing it and saying it.

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He was answering a question about aliens and their technology harming humans. I can't see how he would be confused on what was being asked. It's clear he's not talking about threats to him or anything like that:

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Ok, as I said I was watching it live and so I didn't rewind it right after he talked about his wife and then afterwards is when I just assumed that I got confused. I'll watch that again later today. If you're right then my original shock was justified. If he just openly said he shared those kinds of details with his wife that's kind of a deal killer.

Oh nevermind, I just realized that it's only 30 seconds, haha! I thought it was his whole testimony. Yeah, that is almost hard to believe even rewatching it. Wow.

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I didn't watch it all. I saw this clip in a summary from somebody who is a believer. Just now, I just googled the quote I remembered to post here.

The world isn't ready for the truth… the left and right are at each other's throats which is exactly what the ET of the harrier universe want

Time will tell…

If the aliens are real and we exist at the pleasure of some other species of beings, I think humanity will fall off a cliff. Imagine if overnight every religion was proven to be false. What would people have to live for or strive for? Eternal life? Gone. Where do our morals come from? What reason will so many people have to do the right thing? Overnight you go from seeking a close relationship with god and caring for your fellow man to the only real purpose in life to make your existence as pleasurable as possible. What will the value of life be in places that already value it very little? I don't think we will like the world after 'disclosure' very much.