*** STREAMING INDUSTRY THREAD ***

42,108 Views | 412 Replies | Last: 12 days ago by Iowaggie
TCTTS
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Increasingly, there's been streaming news worth posting, that has more to do with the platforms/apps/streaming business itself, as opposed to individual series, and the article below feels like a good starting point for an official thread aimed at a broader, more macro discussion. It's an excellent, in-depth look at the future of streaming, the crossroads where studios now find themselves, that also speaks to the "woke" era we find ourselves in (in a way that both sides of the isle can agree upon), etc. I highly recommend giving it a read, if you have any interest at all in this world and where it all might be heading...

TCTTS
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Another big topic is the current migration of sports to streaming, and despite the slightly misleading headline, it sounds like Apple is about to have the most significant impact yet...

superunknown
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Finally, a thread I feel I can contribute to!

I cannot speak for all "old media" but in the spirit of full disclosure, I do work for an "old media" company. I can tell you without a doubt, we have no fckin clue how to monetize "new" media correctly. As with anything, we take what we can get. I think the first article was a great "where are we now?" view. The biggest players are fine because they're not core businesses. Everyone (not counting Netflix and they're big enough at their own core because of how they started and grew into what they became) who are the big players are leveraging their infrastructure in some way to monetize. Apple and Amazon grew streaming off their incredibly strong brands in adjacent fields and have the money to burn to build whatever they want. The major TV outlets I think can all have their OTT services and a free alternative because the content is there. I do feel like smaller services from smaller outlets will wind up either closing and just license their stuff to another outlet, though. It'll be very interesting (already has been to see what WB-Discovery has done) to see what shakes out for the smaller ones. Consolidation is coming, and it might even be as easy as how when WWE closed their streaming service and went with Peacock.
TCTTS
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Very interesting to hear. It's nice to hear this stuff from someone who actually works at one of these companies, and I think you're spot on across the board.
superunknown
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Probably could have gone on another few paragraphs but I haven't looked at texags in years on a pc, and typing that much out on a mobile is kind of a grind.

I think the sports rights packages over the next few years are going to be incredibly interesting. Been posting a tiny bit about this on the zoo in appropriate theads but the overwhelming majority of money is still in OTA (over the air) and cable/mso and I think that's what will drive the next round of rights packages. The curveball is the money that Apple and Amazon can throw at the leagues right now. They can straight up pay cash right now for the rights fees, whereas NBCU/Disney/Fox/Paramount definitely have those contracts hanging around their necks hoping like hell the traditional ad market stays together long enough to cover the checks they've written.

Every (and I do mean every) media company sees that digital is the new hotness and we're all trying to have...something....anything to sell so we can say "oh yeah we do that too!" The growth is in digital but the linear is what pays the bills. So how do you get some of that growth and capture those advertisers? Or more specifically...how do you keep your current advertisers if they're wanting a full spectrum of content to advertise to AND to hit every possible way a consumer consumes the content?

There's a reason Twitter is riddled with bargain basement rando apps and click bait ads. They're dirt cheap. There's a reason you see the same 5-10 commercials on your ad-supported OTT services. They're dirt cheap. The difference in the 2 is that Twitter is such a miniscule part of the admarket, it's a throw-in or a rounding error to advertise on Twitter. For a major brand, it's nothing to pull your ads off Twitter, yet advertising is (or was, pre-Musk) 80% of Twitter revenue. Meanwhile, if you're Kraft or Chevy or Target, and spending tens of millions across all spectrums, Disney has absolutely zero problems saying "hey Kraft, if you keep your ad spending at current levels, we'll throw in Hulu for free." Sure, Disney will certainly sell you ads on Hulu for a price, but if you're a big enough spender, you're probably getting them free or very very discounted.

The ad market is splintering daily and if you're not a big enough player to offer a product that scratches every advertisers' desire to be in front of every consumer they want to reach, you're going to be left in the dust. OTA tv, cable, radio...they aren't going away, not by any stretch. But there's not a single company (or rather, not a single company's shareholders) who is going to be satisfied with just maintaining what they have. Makes me wonder what the future holds because content finds a way. Once content finds an outlet the next step is someone making money off it 20 years ago we couldn't have contemplated Twitter. 10 years ago we couldn't have contemplated TikTok. (I do miss Vine, though)

Honestly, part of me hopes I'm long retired by the time most of this stuff shakes out. Then I can just watch TV and listen to the radio or podcasts without wondering why these advertisers aren't paying my company any money.
superunknown
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Iowaggie
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I guess here are two questions I've been wondering about.

Will Disney get families returning to theaters at near pre pandemic levels when many parents have now been trained to just wait until the show will very soon be on Disney+? (This may be in one of the Disney threads)

Does marketing a movie and having a strong theatrical release help streamers or hurt them?
TCTTS
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I'm guessing this is probably a negotiating tactic.
TCTTS
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Really great episode of The Town podcast this past week, concerning streaming...


superunknown
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This was a pretty good read..

Tl; Dr recap: studios and content providers pulling back their own property for their own services and everyone's increasing pricing because streaming isn't as profitable as fast as they'd like.

I think this fits alongside Iowaaggie's post...the pandemic changed a lot.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-streaming-tv-got-boring-netflix-hulu-hbo-max-cable-2022-12
double aught
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Interesting thread. Thanks for the contributions.
Rascal
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superunknown said:

This was a pretty good read..

Tl; Dr recap: studios and content providers pulling back their own property for their own services and everyone's increasing pricing because streaming isn't as profitable as fast as they'd like.

I think this fits alongside Iowaaggie's post...the pandemic changed a lot.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-streaming-tv-got-boring-netflix-hulu-hbo-max-cable-2022-12
Good read, good perspective.
TCTTS
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TCTTS
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I'm assuming they mean YouTube TV.
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schmidthead
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Oh FML… yes Netflix (Netflix!) was suppressing content by non-whites. When you are a hammer…
Rocagnante
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Y'all remember back when it was cool to cut the cord and "save money" over cable? Yeah that was awesome!
double aught
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TCTTS said:


I mean, Sunday Ticket was kind of cool when Directv would throw it in for free. But I'd never pay extra for it. There are at least four games on regular tv each week, often more. I'm sure it's important for some, like if you're in a different part of the country from your team. But it doesn't move the needle for me.
Pahdz
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In terms of sports streaming here in two short months we will see how everything pans out with Apple and MLS. A while back there was a piece in The Athletic basically laying out how far behind Apple was and how it was gonna be a miracle to be ready by opening day.
superunknown
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RedZone Channel back in the day spoiled me. I can't watch regular football broadcasts OTA because the match-ups where I live suck. I do watch Peyton & Eli on espn2. What a great concept and execution that is.

Made me think the other day....if the other networks aren't thinking about doing something like this on their NFL deals, they're insane. CBS with a couple of players that already work for them doing a sidebar telecast on Paramount+. NBC may not want to mess with the Sunday night game and they do have the Sunday Night Final show on Peacock, but Fox should think about it. Thatd be a great part of a basic OTT service.

I'd watch an alt broadcast of almost any game, any sport.
uujm
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I didn't produce anything for streaming but that will change next year. I'll do an announcement when our deal finalizes. 15 of the 17 movies I produced were for television this year and the other 2 were indies. Our distributor has guaranteed us 20 movies for 2023. So demand is still there for cable TV although a lot of it is driven by European women rabidly devouring our primetime cable TV movies as daytime TV.
EclipseAg
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Rocagnante said:

Y'all remember back when it was cool to cut the cord and "save money" over cable? Yeah that was awesome!
I was lazy and never got around to cutting the cord. Now I'm glad I didn't.
PatAg
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Now you are just essentially removing yourself from long contracts, but I think even cable is doing that now as well.
I think most people will just have to pick and choose which sports/shows they want to get for a while. Then maybe pick up a service for a month to binge, and hope it wasnt spoiled for you
double aught
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I rode with Directv for the longest time because they kept it so cheap (~$40/month) that it wasn't worth cancelling. But they finally raised it and wouldn't budge, so I had to bail. I haven't really missed it aside from the convenience of the dvr.

It helps that Netflix and other streamers have started putting out Hallmark-like Christmas movies. That's enough to keep my bride satisfied.
jeffk
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Yeah, we save money vs cable by swapping services pretty frequently. Pick up Apple for a month and binge all the shows there we want to see then cancel. Same then with Netflix and then Hulu. Prime is the only one we keep year round. YouTube TV during football season.
TCTTS
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Iowaggie
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It will be interesting to see how Sunday ticket impacts yttv and Dish/DirecTV.

I would rather have just red zone channel instead of whole Sunday ticket.
Iowaggie
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For a while, I've wondered what will become of a few of the smaller pay television/streaming services that mostly are just add ons to cable and sat packages, especially as those audiences continue to dwindle. My original thought they would be added to a parent company's already established service, but now I'm not sure that happens. It's been interesting to note that some of these parent company's haven't added to their streaming service so as to not cut out the revenue from the pay television.

Is there any reasonable chance that some consolidate?


So what happens to:

Starz (Lionsgate)
Cinemax (HBO/Warner)
Epix (MGM/Amazon)
Movie Channel (Showtime/Paramount)
Showtime (Paramount)
Is Flix still around?
superunknown
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Was thinking about this last night, saw a promo for a Martin reunion thing they've got available on BET+ and while I'm not the target demo for BET, I loved that show and would like to see that reunion bit. Am I going to pay any money for it? Nope. So I probably won't bother ever seeing it. It makes a lot of sense for their to be consolidation but how far that goes is anyone's guess. I'm not a big enough TV fan to subscribe to everything. And I don't want to start trials just to watch a show or two. I wish there were numbers on how much subscriber revenue comes off autorenewals cross referenced by how much those autorenewal customers use the service.
TCTTS
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Iowaggie said:

For a while, I've wondered what will become of a few of the smaller pay television/streaming services that mostly are just add ons to cable and sat packages, especially as those audiences continue to dwindle. My original thought they would be added to a parent company's already established service, but now I'm not sure that happens. It's been interesting to note that some of these parent company's haven't added to their streaming service so as to not cut out the revenue from the pay television.

Is there any reasonable chance that some consolidate?


So what happens to:

Starz (Lionsgate)
Cinemax (HBO/Warner)
Epix (MGM/Amazon)
Movie Channel (Showtime/Paramount)
Showtime (Paramount)
Is Flix still around?


- Lionsgate is currently in the process of "spinning off"/selling Starz. So Starz will be its own thing come spring, and then maybe someone else buys them eventually?

- Surely Cinemax is on the chopping block, under the new Discover deal.

- Epix recently rebranded as MGM+. Seems to be doing fine for now, and with Amazon's backing will likely stay afloat. Might eventually get folded into Amazon Prime Video, but doesn't sound like there are any plans to do so as of now.

- While Showtime channels still remain on cable, and there's still a dedicated Showtime app, all of Showtime's content was recently folded into Paramount+. So you can watch Showtime content on two different streaming platforms as of now. Word is the Showtime brand will eventually go away, though, and anything new will become "Paramount+" original series.
TCTTS
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Quad Dog
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superunknown said:

Was thinking about this last night, saw a promo for a Martin reunion thing they've got available on BET+ and while I'm not the target demo for BET, I loved that show and would like to see that reunion bit. Am I going to pay any money for it? Nope. So I probably won't bother ever seeing it. It makes a lot of sense for their to be consolidation but how far that goes is anyone's guess. I'm not a big enough TV fan to subscribe to everything. And I don't want to start trials just to watch a show or two. I wish there were numbers on how much subscriber revenue comes off autorenewals cross referenced by how much those autorenewal customers use the service.
I keep thinking about the WWE in all of this. They had one of the first streaming networks, but eventually decided to scrap it and just be a content creator for Peacock.
I'm curios if someone like BET will come to the same realization. That they can maybe make more money selling their content to bigger streamers than they can hosting their own streamer.
superunknown
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Didn't know that re: Lionsgate/Starz. I'm gonna lmao if John Malone winds up buying it back, probably with the money he made from his sell-off to them years ago.
Iowaggie
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TCTTS said:

Iowaggie said:

For a while, I've wondered what will become of a few of the smaller pay television/streaming services that mostly are just add ons to cable and sat packages, especially as those audiences continue to dwindle. My original thought they would be added to a parent company's already established service, but now I'm not sure that happens. It's been interesting to note that some of these parent company's haven't added to their streaming service so as to not cut out the revenue from the pay television.

Is there any reasonable chance that some consolidate?


So what happens to:

Starz (Lionsgate)
Cinemax (HBO/Warner)
Epix (MGM/Amazon)
Movie Channel (Showtime/Paramount)
Showtime (Paramount)
Is Flix still around?


- Lionsgate is currently in the process of "spinning off"/selling Starz. So Starz will be its own thing come spring, and then maybe someone else buys them eventually?

- Surely Cinemax is on the chopping block, under the new Discover deal.

- Epix recently rebranded as MGM+. Seems to be doing fine for now, and with Amazon's backing will likely stay afloat. Might eventually get folded into Amazon Prime Video, but doesn't sound like there are any plans to do so as of now.

- While Showtime channels still remain on cable, and there's still a dedicated Showtime app, all of Showtime's content was recently folded into Paramount+. So you can watch Showtime content on two different streaming platforms as of now. Word is the Showtime brand will eventually go away, though, and anything new will become "Paramount+" original series.

Thank you.

To me, it's crazy to think that most those channels are still earning enough revenue from cable/sat to justify their existence (Cinemax, TMC), but the fact that they still exist and their top content isn't already under the HBOMax/Showtime services makes me think it is a positive cash flow. I can't figure out why they aren't already merged into the larger brands.


With HBOMax pulling some of their content as a financial move, maybe the established services don't see the need for more content that they have to pay on residuals? I legit don't know.


Side note: I liked Quarry, Jett, Strike Back, and other content on Cinemax, but I'm not wanting to subscribe to another platform.
Iowaggie
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Quad Dog said:

superunknown said:

Was thinking about this last night, saw a promo for a Martin reunion thing they've got available on BET+ and while I'm not the target demo for BET, I loved that show and would like to see that reunion bit. Am I going to pay any money for it? Nope. So I probably won't bother ever seeing it. It makes a lot of sense for their to be consolidation but how far that goes is anyone's guess. I'm not a big enough TV fan to subscribe to everything. And I don't want to start trials just to watch a show or two. I wish there were numbers on how much subscriber revenue comes off autorenewals cross referenced by how much those autorenewal customers use the service.
I keep thinking about the WWE in all of this. They had one of the first streaming networks, but eventually decided to scrap it and just be a content creator for Peacock.
I'm curios if someone like BET will come to the same realization. That they can maybe make more money selling their content to bigger streamers than they can hosting their own streamer.

I think where the WWE ends up will be a fascinating watch. This isn't like buying rights to broadcast some NFL, NBA, or MLB games, it's like buying the whole league and their historic catalog. (The Monday "The Town" podcast covers this well).

I did not think Disney as a possible destination, and still think it is unlikely, but if they are wanting to bulk up ESPN+ and/or Hulu, this would be a way to do it, and they already show UFC content. They also need to figure out what they are going to do with Hulu.
 
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