How is the Sublime monitoring or running simulations on the real world? Isn't it cut off from it? I thought that was one of the major points of season 2 - to put it somewhere out of reach. Wouldn't they have to input every piece of data to date from the real world in order to run a successful simulation?

I think we can all agree "it's silly, but it's fine."

It made for some fun banter in this episode in a show that desperately needed it. Between that and the knock-off characters and storylines this was the first genuinely fun episode of Westworld in quite some time.

Where is the sublime is a good question. I agree that season two made it seem out of reach. I remember some speculation that all the data was being beamed to space or something. Now it seems to be in Nevada?

The implication was always that Maeve could find it though so maybe a server farm on mars didn't make sense.

If it wasn't for the mind control tower drawings and mention, I would think that the Christina timeline occurs just before the creation of Westworld. She is then the actual writer for the Dolores storyline and code based on wanting to write about a lonely women who is lost in life but then meets someone that helps lead her to a happier ending.

That's an interesting idea

gggmann said:

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How is the Sublime monitoring or running simulations on the real world? Isn't it cut off from it? I thought that was one of the major points of season 2 - to put it somewhere out of reach. Wouldn't they have to input every piece of data to date from the real world in order to run a successful simulation?

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In the season two finale, Halores tells Bernard that he's sending the the host souls in the Sublime "to a place no one will ever find them." Which doesn't necessarily mean that the Sublime host souls don't have some kind of connection to or ability to observe the real world. Only that wherever the Sublime is, no human will ever find it. Granted, in the same scene, Halores *also* says, "There's no coming back now. No passage between their world and ours." Except that in the very next season finale, Dolores Prime proves that wrong by giving Bernard direct access to the Sublime via the headset he uses in the motel room. In other words, there IS a connection between worlds, via the headset, for all 23 years he's sitting in that motel room. And that connection could easily also be pinging a local WiFi signal to gather data, or using Stubbs as a means to establish some kind of connection, who knows.

amercer said:

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Where is the sublime is a good question. I agree that season two made it seem out of reach. I remember some speculation that all the data was being beamed to space or something. Now it seems to be in Nevada?

The implication was always that Maeve could find it though so maybe a server farm on mars didn't make sense.

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I addressed this a few pages back, but yeah, the encrypted data/Sublime was beamed to a Delos satellite at the end of season two. And then the current speculation is that at some point either before or during season three, Dolores Prime then somehow transferred the encrypted data/Sublime to the Hoover Dam facility in Nevada. That's what Host William heavily implies in the season four opener, at least. So Halores/Host William *have* the data/Sublime in their possession, but have no way to access it without the encryption key, which Bernard obviously has.

tk for tu juan said:

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If it wasn't for the mind control tower drawings and mention, I would think that the Christina timeline occurs just before the creation of Westworld. She is then the actual writer for the Dolores storyline and code based on wanting to write about a lonely women who is lost in life but then meets someone that helps lead her to a happier ending.

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It's an interesting idea, one that people have been batting around, but in the trailers we see both Halores and Host William physically in "Manhattan World." So unless they're *really* screwing with the timeline, it's almost assuredly the future.

Westworld is good again, here's our pod. @jowrotethis @Danny_Heifetz https://t.co/fwJNusvneb

— David Shoemaker (@DavidShoemaker) July 12, 2022

TCTTS said:

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gggmann said:

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How is the Sublime monitoring or running simulations on the real world? Isn't it cut off from it? I thought that was one of the major points of season 2 - to put it somewhere out of reach. Wouldn't they have to input every piece of data to date from the real world in order to run a successful simulation?

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In the season two finale, Halores tells Bernard that he's sending the the host souls in the Sublime "to a place no one will ever find them." Which doesn't necessarily mean that the Sublime host souls don't have some kind of connection to or ability to observe the real world. Only that wherever the Sublime is, no human will ever find it. Granted, in the same scene, Halores *also* says, "There's no coming back now. No passage between their world and ours." Except that in the very next season finale, Dolores Prime proves that wrong by giving Bernard direct access to the Sublime via the headset he uses in the motel room. In other words, there IS a connection between worlds, via the headset, for all 23 years he's sitting in that motel room. And that connection could easily also be pinging a local WiFi signal to gather data, or using Stubbs as a means to establish some kind of connection, who knows.

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I love this comment and how it applies to general Sci/Fi analysis as well.

They have flying cars, quantum computers, self-aware AI, human mind control via black goo flies, and all this other futuristic tech. But this theory comes down to if Bernard dropped his Wi-Fi signal in the abandoned motel.

Not hating (because who know WTH is going on) but it made me audibly laugh.

amercer said:

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I do agree that they need to cut back on his god mode prediction powers now, but I expect that part of the plot going forward will be things he didn't foresee and how he decides to deals with them as he tries to recalculate the future as it happens.

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We got sidetracked but I wanted to talk about this actually.

If this happens, it will bother me quite a bit.

Bernard could not only see future events, but he could see how his decisions affected those future events. So again, kind of Dr. Strange-esque as opposed to like Terminator where he only knows one future. He not only sees the future, but he's seen how if he does x instead of y, it changes.

So, given that, and (plausibility aside) given the level of detail this simulation seems to have of the future, would it make sense if something happens that it didn't foresee? How would that even happen?

As they go through their trip, it will be interesting if he starts to have less and less knowledge of what the "right "thing to do is.

Even at the end, maybe he's faced with a decision that is 50/50 on whether or not it would yield the right path, so he has to rely on some 'human instinct' to make the right choice.

I think there are a lot of ways it could go.

It all hinges on how much Stubbs can tolerate tuna sandwiches for every meal

Love that idea.

I guess this could make sense. He knows what timelines quickly end in destruction or whatever, but he doesn't know exactly how the "correct" timelines end.

Like an "Edge of Tomorrow" kinda deal "I dunno, I never made it this far"

Yeah, I think it's a butterfly effect kind of thing. Small changes amplify as time moves. So his knowledge at the beginning will be perfect but his percent confidence decreases as time goes on. Even if the math proposed here on how long he had to run simulations is true, by the time they get to the end it may be a coin flip (as stated above)

hmm

I have been loving this season compared to last. Great episode!

Dang E4 was good. Love the time shift in the narrative

Good episode. Pretty much all as expected.

Looks like the next step is invasion of haleworld.

This show just knows how to do it

edit: Dolores and Teddy...that was a great scene

They did sort of abandon the quest for the sublime that host William seemed to be on in the first episode. Looks like just killing all the non-Delores hosts was the goal, but that doesn't completely square with what we've seen.

Also, it seems a little hard to believe that ANYTHING could happen in new NYC without Hale pulling the strings, so it will be interesting to see what she is up to with new Delores/Teddy. Haleoris making a new version of the maze for an authentic copy of Delores so she can show herself what they have accomplished? (It gets real confusing real fast)

Wow

TCTTS said:

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amercer said:

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The weapon in the desert is frozen William right?

(Probably not but I'd love for them to eventually use the character to its full potential instead of just ending ever arc with zero growth and having him die in a dumb and pointless way. We're on about take 20 of that plot)

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I don't think it's William. But if they're in a future timeline with adult Frankie, I think the buried weapon is Maeve. Maeve and Caleb are currently in the desert in the American West. That's where the park is. And somehow, Maeve ultimately gets "buried" in that timeline, then Bernard & co - who are also in the American West - resurrect her in the future. And maybe *that* moment is the reveal that Bernard & co are in a future timeline.

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So, yeah, the broad strokes of basically everything we predicted just came to fruition. Only sooner than I expected, that's for sure. But I love that this turn marks the halfway point of the season, and we now have four episodes to focus on infiltrating New York and attempting to take down Halores.

Also, a great, wink-wink episode title: "Generation Loss." But now that we know most of the humans under Halores' control are the next generation (meaning the majority of them were born in the wake of season three), I have no idea how Christina/Dolores plays into all of this, IF she's actually "human," as Lisa Joy has coyly alluded. Because the math just doesn't add up now. So, maybe Halores/Host William are STILL looking for the key to the Sublime, 23 years later? And they created a new host version of Dolores to try and somehow get the location of the key out of her? Based on the trailers, we know there are scenes yet to come that take place at the Hoover Dam, so the data center definitely still comes into play.

Either way, it's going to be interesting to see if Teddy was sent by Halores to help influence Christine/Dolores in some nefarious way - or - if he was sent by Bernard and Maeve and co to try and get Christine/Dolores off her loop. Can't wait to see how it plays out.

That one I enjoyed. A lot. Got back to what has made the show great. All of the silly mini (pointless) plot devices were gone, just a big swing story coming together and really well constructed.

So...how many are humans with parasites, how many are Hosts lookalikes?
I think she was lying about the children parasite thing she said.

So why didnt Mauve destroy the machine while she was right next to it and was able to access it.. if that actually occurred in the early timeline.

Or this entire thing is in a fictional world of her making. Remember everyone gets to live in a world of their choosing.

redline248 said:

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This show just knows how to do it

edit: Dolores and Teddy...that was a great scene

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I'll be honest... I couldn't tell if this scene was super heavy-handed/on-the-nose with its dialogue, or if it was legit good and simply the nature of the discussion/kind of the point (of the filmmakers). But that scene, and then the scene that immediately followed, of Halores monologging to Caleb, was the only stretch of the episode that felt a little off to me. But I may just need to watch it again.

Pretty sure the only humans left are "C" and her people. Everyone else is a robot.

TCTTS said:

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redline248 said:

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This show just knows how to do it

edit: Dolores and Teddy...that was a great scene

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I'll be honest... I couldn't tell if this scene was super heavy-handed/on-the-nose with its dialogue, or if it was legit good and simply the nature of the discussion/ kind of the point (of the filmmakers). But that scene, and then the scene that immediately followed, of Halores monologging to Caleb, was the only stretch of the episode that felt a little off to me. But I may just need to watch it again.

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I thought that scene was awkward. Kind of stilted dialogue.

PatAg said:

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So...how many are humans with parasites, how many are Hosts lookalikes?
I think she was lying about the children parasite thing she said.

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Why would she lie about that, though? Seeing as everyone in New York looks to be around the same age, or at least *not* old, what she said makes perfect sense and seems to be exactly the case.

Quinn said:

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TCTTS said:

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redline248 said:

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This show just knows how to do it

edit: Dolores and Teddy...that was a great scene

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I'll be honest... I couldn't tell if this scene was super heavy-handed/on-the-nose with its dialogue, or if it was legit good and simply the nature of the discussion/ kind of the point (of the filmmakers). But that scene, and then the scene that immediately followed, of Halores monologging to Caleb, was the only stretch of the episode that felt a little off to me. But I may just need to watch it again.

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I thought that scene was awkward. Kind of stilted dialogue.

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Good to know I wasn't the only one.