I don't remember season 5 enough to know who Lalo told about Nacho. But clearly he told enough that they knew to go after Nacho first thing. If he didn't, then that would be a HUGE plot hole in s6e1 that nobody has mentioned yet. I give Gilligan/Gould way more credit than that.Complete Idiot said:How does Lalo know who else is looking for Nacho? I believe he has only talked to Hector, at least that is all that has been shown, since the attack at his house. I get what you are saying but I'm not sure how aware Lalo is of the situation. If it's Nacho he's after he has to assume Nacho hasn't been extricated from Mexico already and that he could find that needle in a haystack, he seemed to be very sure of where he needed to go for the proof - I wouldn't think he'd be that sure of himself if he thought he needed to find Nacho on his own.aTmAg said:
What's gimpy Lalo going to do to catch Nacho that the twins and 1000 cartelos and federales aren't already doing better? Lalo has taken special precautions to make people think he is dead. Why would he risk that to merely be one more person looking for Nacho?
To me, that sounds nonsensical.
We know Hector told him to find proof that Fring was behind the assassination attempt, we know he then drove back into Mexico rather than towards the US. So he could get proof out of Nacho, if we think that is not his likely destination than where else? Is there something he could find at his house that would tie Nacho or the attackers to Fring? Perhaps he knows about Fring's community with the memorial to his murdered partner (where Mike rehabilitated), could he get proof there? Or perhaps there is another option a viewer wouldn't yet be aware of.
Bolsa and the cartel blame Nacho for the assassination attempt and Fring is going along with that and sharing Nacho's whereabouts with the cartel, maybe Lalo realizes that all would be happening and that they all must be hunting down Nacho and he also trusts the cartel to take Nacho alive - so he's going back into Mexico to join the hunt and eventual interrogation. As you said, he knows the cartel is aware of Nacho and therefore they all must be after him and Lalo won't have to find him alone. I am not sure how important it is that he continues the ruse that he is dead, or perhaps he thinks he can continue the ruse, at least as far as Fring's camp is concerned, if he only comes in contact with cartel members he trusts (the cousins).aTmAg said:I don't remember season 5 enough to know who Lalo told about Nacho. But clearly he told enough that they knew to go after Nacho first thing. If he didn't, then that would be a HUGE plot hole in s6e1 that nobody has mentioned yet. I give Gilligan/Gould way more credit than that.Complete Idiot said:How does Lalo know who else is looking for Nacho? I believe he has only talked to Hector, at least that is all that has been shown, since the attack at his house. I get what you are saying but I'm not sure how aware Lalo is of the situation. If it's Nacho he's after he has to assume Nacho hasn't been extricated from Mexico already and that he could find that needle in a haystack, he seemed to be very sure of where he needed to go for the proof - I wouldn't think he'd be that sure of himself if he thought he needed to find Nacho on his own.aTmAg said:
What's gimpy Lalo going to do to catch Nacho that the twins and 1000 cartelos and federales aren't already doing better? Lalo has taken special precautions to make people think he is dead. Why would he risk that to merely be one more person looking for Nacho?
To me, that sounds nonsensical.
We know Hector told him to find proof that Fring was behind the assassination attempt, we know he then drove back into Mexico rather than towards the US. So he could get proof out of Nacho, if we think that is not his likely destination than where else? Is there something he could find at his house that would tie Nacho or the attackers to Fring? Perhaps he knows about Fring's community with the memorial to his murdered partner (where Mike rehabilitated), could he get proof there? Or perhaps there is another option a viewer wouldn't yet be aware of.
Yes, the fact that he shook his hand and appeared to look Gus in the eyes caused Fring to realize Lalo is alive - I think Gus literally said the handshake is what told him Lalo is alive.Brian Earl Spilner said:
One question is, how did Gus figure out Lalo is alive from that meeting with Hector? The handshake was a bit too amiable and it aroused suspicion?
As I said earlier, Gus knows Hector despises him so the hand shake was a huge tell for Hector to have to put in that much effort.Complete Idiot said:Yes, the fact that he shook his hand and appeared to look Gus in the eyes caused Fring to realize Lalo is alive - I think Gus literally said the handshake is what told him Lalo is alive.Brian Earl Spilner said:
One question is, how did Gus figure out Lalo is alive from that meeting with Hector? The handshake was a bit too amiable and it aroused suspicion?
I don't agree that Gus is sharing Nacho's whereabouts with the cartel. The last thing Gus wants is them to know that he had anything to do with Nacho. That would implicate Gus in the whole thing.Complete Idiot said:Bolsa and the cartel blame Nacho for the assassination attempt and Fring is going along with that and sharing Nacho's whereabouts with the cartel,aTmAg said:I don't remember season 5 enough to know who Lalo told about Nacho. But clearly he told enough that they knew to go after Nacho first thing. If he didn't, then that would be a HUGE plot hole in s6e1 that nobody has mentioned yet. I give Gilligan/Gould way more credit than that.Complete Idiot said:How does Lalo know who else is looking for Nacho? I believe he has only talked to Hector, at least that is all that has been shown, since the attack at his house. I get what you are saying but I'm not sure how aware Lalo is of the situation. If it's Nacho he's after he has to assume Nacho hasn't been extricated from Mexico already and that he could find that needle in a haystack, he seemed to be very sure of where he needed to go for the proof - I wouldn't think he'd be that sure of himself if he thought he needed to find Nacho on his own.aTmAg said:
What's gimpy Lalo going to do to catch Nacho that the twins and 1000 cartelos and federales aren't already doing better? Lalo has taken special precautions to make people think he is dead. Why would he risk that to merely be one more person looking for Nacho?
To me, that sounds nonsensical.
We know Hector told him to find proof that Fring was behind the assassination attempt, we know he then drove back into Mexico rather than towards the US. So he could get proof out of Nacho, if we think that is not his likely destination than where else? Is there something he could find at his house that would tie Nacho or the attackers to Fring? Perhaps he knows about Fring's community with the memorial to his murdered partner (where Mike rehabilitated), could he get proof there? Or perhaps there is another option a viewer wouldn't yet be aware of.
This ignores all the asspainery that Lalo went through to fake his death. He had to kill 2 innocent people over it (and now he can never do it again). I don't think Lalo would blow that just to help in an interrogation. And I don't think Vince and Gould would write all that into the script just to toss it aside.Quote:
maybe Lalo realizes that all would be happening and that they all must be hunting down Nacho and he also trusts the cartel to take Nacho alive - so he's going back into Mexico to join the hunt and eventual interrogation. As you said, he knows the cartel is aware of Nacho and therefore they all must be after him and Lalo won't have to find him alone. I am not sure how important it is that he continues the ruse that he is dead, or perhaps he thinks he can continue the ruse, at least as far as Fring's camp is concerned, if he only comes in contact with cartel members he trusts (the cousins).
Why is Tyrus telling Nacho to "stay put"? They clearly aren't sending anyone to extricate Nacho, as they told Nacho they would do on the phone. As soon as Nacho didn't take the two calls to his phone, calls I assume were from Tyrus, the phone of the guy in the shed rang - meaning he was a Gus guy. As soon as Gus's guy didn't answer his phone, the cartel shows up. Coincidence? Fring double agent somewhere else in the cartel leaking info so as not to expose Fring? I might be forgetting something from the episode, I hadn't even put together the dental questions and the faked dead body so I am a complete idiot.aTmAg said:I don't agree that Gus is sharing Nacho's whereabouts with the cartel. The last thing Gus wants is them to know that he had anything to do with Nacho. That would implicate Gus in the whole thing.Complete Idiot said:Bolsa and the cartel blame Nacho for the assassination attempt and Fring is going along with that and sharing Nacho's whereabouts with the cartel,aTmAg said:I don't remember season 5 enough to know who Lalo told about Nacho. But clearly he told enough that they knew to go after Nacho first thing. If he didn't, then that would be a HUGE plot hole in s6e1 that nobody has mentioned yet. I give Gilligan/Gould way more credit than that.Complete Idiot said:How does Lalo know who else is looking for Nacho? I believe he has only talked to Hector, at least that is all that has been shown, since the attack at his house. I get what you are saying but I'm not sure how aware Lalo is of the situation. If it's Nacho he's after he has to assume Nacho hasn't been extricated from Mexico already and that he could find that needle in a haystack, he seemed to be very sure of where he needed to go for the proof - I wouldn't think he'd be that sure of himself if he thought he needed to find Nacho on his own.aTmAg said:
What's gimpy Lalo going to do to catch Nacho that the twins and 1000 cartelos and federales aren't already doing better? Lalo has taken special precautions to make people think he is dead. Why would he risk that to merely be one more person looking for Nacho?
To me, that sounds nonsensical.
We know Hector told him to find proof that Fring was behind the assassination attempt, we know he then drove back into Mexico rather than towards the US. So he could get proof out of Nacho, if we think that is not his likely destination than where else? Is there something he could find at his house that would tie Nacho or the attackers to Fring? Perhaps he knows about Fring's community with the memorial to his murdered partner (where Mike rehabilitated), could he get proof there? Or perhaps there is another option a viewer wouldn't yet be aware of.
Quoting myself to re-emphasize what Gould said about Nacho and how Gus wanted it to go down.Teddy Perkins said:This is correct and confirmed by Peter Gould - https://ew.com/tv/better-call-saul-creator-on-jimmy-kim-scheme-lalo-season-6-premiere/Know Your Enemy said:Precisely why Tyrus told Nacho to shoot anyone that came to the door. They expected to cousins to show up at the motel and Nacho to fire at them causing them to return fire and kill him.Infection_Ag11 said:Teddy Perkins said:
Speinwall's write up on the episode. https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-recaps/better-call-saul-season-6-premiere-recap-1333400/
And his take on Nacho, the hotel, and bank statement from the safe. I missed the Peruvian transaction on the statement to throw the Salamancas off Fring's scent.Quote:
At the same time, it's difficult to keep up with all the moves and countermoves at times, in part because Mike's agenda is not in lockstep with Gus'. Mike likes Nacho, and feels bad that Gus has placed the kid in such a difficult position, while Gus has nothing but contempt for Ignacio Varga. Both men, though, do not want Nacho to become a live prisoner of the Salamancas, knowing that he would reveal their role in the botched assassination attempt. Mike replaces Nacho's safe with an identical one, and plants falsified evidence of a Peruvian wire transfer to draw attention away from Gus, along with details about the motel. (Mike also removes all traces of Nacho's dad, understanding that Mr. Varga is a complete innocent in all of this.) His hope is that Nacho will simply get away, perhaps with his help, while understanding that death seems more likely. And Gus just wants Nacho dead as quickly as possible, and thus has arranged for Nacho to be placed in a second-floor room with no exit, and to have Tyrus monitoring the situation from afar until the Cousins arrive. The whole thing is deliberately messy we even see the meticulous Gustavo Fring knock over a glass in one scene but it's a lot to keep track of, especially now that Hector is feeling mentally strong enough to assist his nephews in all of this.
But again, this all glosses over the fact that IF you send the cartel after Nacho there's a chance he ends up in their custody alive before they kill him. And if that happens a fake bank statement won't save him.
It just doesn't seem like something someone as calculating as Fring would do. It's leaving his fate up to chance.Quote:
Nacho realizes he's being watched and set up, but instead of revealing what's happening, he only tells Tyrus that he has a bad feeling about this…
Nacho's no idiot. And he knows very well that Gus Fring doesn't have his best interest at heart. And the Gus Fring organization is the one that shot him in the side in order to make a setup look a little bit better. So the fact that he's got this sort of safe haven in Mexico at first Nacho's kind of happy not to be on the run. The wheels are turning and somehow he's being set up, and in episode 2, you see exactly how he's being set up. They want him waiting in motel where the Cousins are going to show up, and Nacho catches on just moments before. If he had caught on just 45 minutes later, the Cousins would've grabbed him and he'd be tortured and dead. That's why they give Nacho the gun, because the real setup is hoping that he's going to be trapped in a firefight with the Cousins, and one way or another Nacho will be killed in the action.
It was the phone number but also a bank statement detailing payments from a mysterious source - falsified transactions implying Nacho was paid to betray the Salamancas by someone other than Gus.Know Your Enemy said:
Well Gus had Mike plant the hotel phone number in Nacho's safe so I think you're wrong here. Of course he had Tyrus tell Nacho to shoot anyone that showed up to his door in order to get the Salamanca crew to fire back killing him instead of taking him alive.
Originally I figured that Gus tipped them off. But then I realized that made no sense for two reasons:Complete Idiot said:Why is Tyrus telling Nacho to "stay put"? They clearly aren't sending anyone to extricate Nacho, as they told Nacho they would do on the phone. As soon as Nacho didn't take the two calls to his phone, calls I assume were from Tyrus, the phone of the guy in the shed rang - meaning he was a Gus guy. As soon as Gus's guy didn't answer his phone, the cartel shows up. Coincidence? Fring double agent somewhere else in the cartel leaking info so as not to expose Fring? I might be forgetting something from the episode, I hadn't even put together the dental questions and the faked dead body so I am a complete idiot.aTmAg said:I don't agree that Gus is sharing Nacho's whereabouts with the cartel. The last thing Gus wants is them to know that he had anything to do with Nacho. That would implicate Gus in the whole thing.Complete Idiot said:Bolsa and the cartel blame Nacho for the assassination attempt and Fring is going along with that and sharing Nacho's whereabouts with the cartel,aTmAg said:I don't remember season 5 enough to know who Lalo told about Nacho. But clearly he told enough that they knew to go after Nacho first thing. If he didn't, then that would be a HUGE plot hole in s6e1 that nobody has mentioned yet. I give Gilligan/Gould way more credit than that.Complete Idiot said:How does Lalo know who else is looking for Nacho? I believe he has only talked to Hector, at least that is all that has been shown, since the attack at his house. I get what you are saying but I'm not sure how aware Lalo is of the situation. If it's Nacho he's after he has to assume Nacho hasn't been extricated from Mexico already and that he could find that needle in a haystack, he seemed to be very sure of where he needed to go for the proof - I wouldn't think he'd be that sure of himself if he thought he needed to find Nacho on his own.aTmAg said:
What's gimpy Lalo going to do to catch Nacho that the twins and 1000 cartelos and federales aren't already doing better? Lalo has taken special precautions to make people think he is dead. Why would he risk that to merely be one more person looking for Nacho?
To me, that sounds nonsensical.
We know Hector told him to find proof that Fring was behind the assassination attempt, we know he then drove back into Mexico rather than towards the US. So he could get proof out of Nacho, if we think that is not his likely destination than where else? Is there something he could find at his house that would tie Nacho or the attackers to Fring? Perhaps he knows about Fring's community with the memorial to his murdered partner (where Mike rehabilitated), could he get proof there? Or perhaps there is another option a viewer wouldn't yet be aware of.
No. I mean Gus didn't call up the cartel and say "I think it was Nacho and that he's in hotel X". They had to plant the evidence so the cartel could "discover" it themselves. I don't think Gus could have had anybody call and give a tip. That would have been suspicious as hell.Know Your Enemy said:
Well Gus had Mike plant the hotel phone number in Nacho's safe so I think you're wrong here. Of course he had Tyrus tell Nacho to shoot anyone that showed up to his door in order to get the Salamanca crew to fire back killing him instead of taking him alive.
His Suzuki Esteem that was shot up and abandoned was in the New Mexico desert, not Mexico.Tobias Funke said:
I have not thought this through at all and can't provide a reason why it would be an option, BUT is there any chance Lalo is going back to Goodman's abandoned car in the desert? Some kind of "proof" there?
Probably not. I'm just trying to think of things we are aware of in Mexico.
New Mexico, Old Mexico, who gives a ****Teddy Perkins said:His Suzuki Esteem that was shot up and abandoned was in the New Mexico desert, not Mexico.Tobias Funke said:
I have not thought this through at all and can't provide a reason why it would be an option, BUT is there any chance Lalo is going back to Goodman's abandoned car in the desert? Some kind of "proof" there?
Probably not. I'm just trying to think of things we are aware of in Mexico.
Tobias Funke said:
I have not thought this through at all and can't provide a reason why it would be an option, BUT is there any chance Lalo is going back to Goodman's abandoned car in the desert? Some kind of "proof" there?
Probably not. I'm just trying to think of things we are aware of in Mexico.
What I dont understand is why Mike went along with that. Mike has been Nacho's biggest advocate this whole time and was trying to get him out of that situation both before and after he planted the number in the safe. Why would Mike want the Salamanca guys to find Nacho? You'd think he would put a fake number on there to another motel or something, while he sent a car to rescue Nacho. That whole deal didnt make much sense but maybe it'll be answered in future episodes.aTmAg said:
Originally I figured that Gus tipped them off. But then I realized that made no sense for two reasons:
1) The twins showed up immediately. As if they happened to be like 100 yards away when the tip came in.
2) Any tip would have been suspicious as hell to the Cartel. It is way better for them to think they pieced it together themselves.
Tyrus was telling Nacho to stay put because they planted the hotel phone number in the safe. Eventually Gus knew the cartel would find that, and would find Nacho there. I think the twins showing up when they did was a lucky/unlucky coincidence.
Know Your Enemy said:
Well Gus had Mike plant the hotel phone number in Nacho's safe so I think you're wrong here. Of course he had Tyrus tell Nacho to shoot anyone that showed up to his door in order to get the Salamanca crew to fire back killing him instead of taking him alive.
And rip that Suzuki esteem.Teddy Perkins said:His Suzuki Esteem that was shot up and abandoned was in the New Mexico desert, not Mexico.Tobias Funke said:
I have not thought this through at all and can't provide a reason why it would be an option, BUT is there any chance Lalo is going back to Goodman's abandoned car in the desert? Some kind of "proof" there?
Probably not. I'm just trying to think of things we are aware of in Mexico.
it just seemed odd with even after all that Mike pleading with Gus to let him go rescue Nacho. a very Mike thing to do would be to write a fake number on there and then call Nacho and give him instructions on how to escape. or something.TCTTS said:
Because Gus would kill Mike if he didn't comply. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.
But the era of the car looked wrong for the era of the show, it looked like an old 80's/early 90's cruiser that Mike would drive.aTmAg said:
I watched a 2nd time and I'm now in the camp of the car at the end being police(ish). The wheels look "beefy" like those seen on cop cars.
Lots of vehicles shown in the series, and most of them seem to be used to inform you about the nature of the character and their position in life.Stat Monitor Repairman said:And rip that Suzuki esteem.Teddy Perkins said:His Suzuki Esteem that was shot up and abandoned was in the New Mexico desert, not Mexico.Tobias Funke said:
I have not thought this through at all and can't provide a reason why it would be an option, BUT is there any chance Lalo is going back to Goodman's abandoned car in the desert? Some kind of "proof" there?
Probably not. I'm just trying to think of things we are aware of in Mexico.
Cars are a huge part of this show.
