Just to be clear I'm not necessarily saying Lebron couldn't hold up. I think it would be fun to see how it would have played out. Conversely how would Jordan do in today's NBA? Hell he might average 48 ppg.
ESPN's Michael Jordan Doc moved up to April
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Last: 4 yr ago by Petrino1
Oh come on, are you serious? I understand people who ardently defend MJ's GOAT status, but the idea that Lebron James is so far beneath him that he'd "cry" against any team from the 80s or 90s is absurd.MuckRaker96 said:
If i had 3 wishes, I would totally waste one of them on watching LeBron play against the Lambieer/Mahorn/Rodman Pistons. Would be he be able to shoot his free throws amid all the tears?
M.C. Swag said:Oh come on, are you serious? I understand people who ardently defend MJ's GOAT status, but the idea that Lebron James is so far beneath him that he'd "cry" against any team from the 80s or 90s is absurd.MuckRaker96 said:
If i had 3 wishes, I would totally waste one of them on watching LeBron play against the Lambieer/Mahorn/Rodman Pistons. Would be he be able to shoot his free throws amid all the tears?
He sat himself in a playoff game because the A/C was out in the arena and it was too hot. There's video of him at the FT line and when he sees Kawhi checking back in to guard him he makes a face clearly showing he doesn't want the heat. His physical skills are amazing but he doesn't have the killer mentality. That's why he will never be the GOAT.
i was at that game. It was hot, but not middle of summer playground hot.Junkhead said:M.C. Swag said:Oh come on, are you serious? I understand people who ardently defend MJ's GOAT status, but the idea that Lebron James is so far beneath him that he'd "cry" against any team from the 80s or 90s is absurd.MuckRaker96 said:
If i had 3 wishes, I would totally waste one of them on watching LeBron play against the Lambieer/Mahorn/Rodman Pistons. Would be he be able to shoot his free throws amid all the tears?
He sat himself in a playoff game because the A/C was out in the arena and it was too hot. There's video of him at the FT line and when he sees Kawhi checking back in to guard him he makes a face clearly showing he doesn't want the heat. His physical skills are amazing but he doesn't have the killer mentality. That's why he will never be the GOAT.
1) he'd been playing damn near 40+ min/game and was cramping. He didn't bench himself cuz he was scared or tired.Junkhead said:M.C. Swag said:Oh come on, are you serious? I understand people who ardently defend MJ's GOAT status, but the idea that Lebron James is so far beneath him that he'd "cry" against any team from the 80s or 90s is absurd.MuckRaker96 said:
If i had 3 wishes, I would totally waste one of them on watching LeBron play against the Lambieer/Mahorn/Rodman Pistons. Would be he be able to shoot his free throws amid all the tears?
He sat himself in a playoff game because the A/C was out in the arena and it was too hot. There's video of him at the FT line and when he sees Kawhi checking back in to guard him he makes a face clearly showing he doesn't want the heat. His physical skills are amazing but he doesn't have the killer mentality. That's why he will never be the GOAT.
2) Kawhi is the league's best on-ball defender. That was just a funny expression of "damn, this dude again"
Again, you're welcome and free to advocate MJ greatness, but denigrating Lebron's is just ignorant.
Never denigrated his skills, only his lack of a killer mentality.
His mentality took him out of poverty of a single parent home to become the leagues best player on teams that went to 8? 9? straight finals. There's alot of adjectives you can use to describe his mentality but 'weak' isn't one of them.Junkhead said:
Never denigrated his skills, only his lack of a killer mentality.
LeBron is the best player of his generation of players and it's not even close. Clearly I was being sarcastic in my comments, although I think those Pistons would tear him up the same way they tore Jordan up before the Bulls' 1991 breakthrough. LeBron's attitude and demeanor on court suggest to me he would be a crybaby NOT LITERALLY getting bodied around by those guys in their prime.M.C. Swag said:Oh come on, are you serious? I understand people who ardently defend MJ's GOAT status, but the idea that Lebron James is so far beneath him that he'd "cry" against any team from the 80s or 90s is absurd.MuckRaker96 said:
If i had 3 wishes, I would totally waste one of them on watching LeBron play against the Lambieer/Mahorn/Rodman Pistons. Would be he be able to shoot his free throws amid all the tears?
As a Rockets' fan, but a Harden detractor I'd love to see him against those same Pistons. Being checked by Dumars, then trying to drive the lane vs. Lambieer and Mahorn and Rodman? He's foul out on charges in the first half of a game.
Those Pistons played in a different era. No player or team today could handle that style of play just like no team from the 80s and 90s (yes, the Bulls too) couldn't keep up with today's offenses. I don't like comparing players of different eras because those players played with different rules. If Lebron was born in 1960, his style of play is going to be completely different, and his attitude on the court is likely to be different as well.
Junkhead said:
Never denigrated his skills, only his lack of a killer mentality.
You always need to caveat any comments about Lebron on the Internet that they aren't meant to be disparaging if you don't mean them as disparaging or Internet Lebron fans get super offended.
If you truly dropped a player like Harden or Lebron into the late 80s, those defenses would be obliterated. They were tough and big but they had 0 perimeter awareness. The spacing was just too confined that a player like James or especially Harden would feast. I'm not sure Dumars would even know how to guard a player like harden 25ft from the rim because he never had to guard anyone with the threat of shooting from that range.MuckRaker96 said:LeBron is the best player of his generation of players and it's not even close. Clearly I was being sarcastic in my comments, although I think those Pistons would tear him up the same way they tore Jordan up before the Bulls' 1991 breakthrough. LeBron's attitude and demeanor on court suggest to me he would be a crybaby NOT LITERALLY getting bodied around by those guys in their prime.M.C. Swag said:Oh come on, are you serious? I understand people who ardently defend MJ's GOAT status, but the idea that Lebron James is so far beneath him that he'd "cry" against any team from the 80s or 90s is absurd.MuckRaker96 said:
If i had 3 wishes, I would totally waste one of them on watching LeBron play against the Lambieer/Mahorn/Rodman Pistons. Would be he be able to shoot his free throws amid all the tears?
As a Rockets' fan, but a Harden detractor I'd love to see him against those same Pistons. Being checked by Dumars, then trying to drive the lane vs. Lambieer and Mahorn and Rodman? He's foul out on charges in the first half of a game.
Again, Jordan is the greatest of all time if for no other reason than what he did to propel the NBA into the popularity it enjoys today, but 6'8 Lebron James is a better magic johnson. He can guard all 5 positions, has 0 holes in his offensive game, and has the same high IQ to match. He'd succeed in any era of basketball and i can't even entertain the conversation that he wouldn't.
M.C. Swag said:His mentality took him out of poverty of a single parent home to become the leagues best player on teams that went to 8? 9? straight finals. There's alot of adjectives you can use to describe his mentality but 'weak' isn't one of them.Junkhead said:
Never denigrated his skills, only his lack of a killer mentality.
If you can't see the difference between his mentality and Jordan's then I don't know how to help you. Maybe your seeing eye dog can explain it better.
Nice shot there. Yea, there's a difference. Never said there wasn't. Somehow you think I'm arguing that MJ isn't the GOAT, i'm not, i'm just laughing at the absurd mischaracterizations of the greatest basketball player since MJ retired. And that he's somehow weak or soft b/c he's #2 to MJ.Junkhead said:M.C. Swag said:His mentality took him out of poverty of a single parent home to become the leagues best player on teams that went to 8? 9? straight finals. There's alot of adjectives you can use to describe his mentality but 'weak' isn't one of them.Junkhead said:
Never denigrated his skills, only his lack of a killer mentality.
If you can't see the difference between his mentality and Jordan's then I don't know how to help you. Maybe your seeing eye dog can explain it better.
I'd put Kobe above LeBron but he's definitely the best since Kobe.
M.C. Swag said:
At 6'8 Lebron James is a better magic johnson. He can guard all 5 positions, has 0 holes in his offensive game, and has the same high IQ to match. He'd succeed in any era of basketball and i can't even entertain the conversation that he wouldn't.
The Jordon v Lebron argument always reminds me of this clip from Bad Teacher.
M.C. Swag said:Nice shot there. Yea, there's a difference. Never said there wasn't. Somehow you think I'm arguing that MJ isn't the GOAT, i'm not, i'm just laughing at the absurd mischaracterizations of the greatest basketball player since MJ retired. And that he's somehow weak or soft b/c he's #2 to MJ.Junkhead said:M.C. Swag said:His mentality took him out of poverty of a single parent home to become the leagues best player on teams that went to 8? 9? straight finals. There's alot of adjectives you can use to describe his mentality but 'weak' isn't one of them.Junkhead said:
Never denigrated his skills, only his lack of a killer mentality.
If you can't see the difference between his mentality and Jordan's then I don't know how to help you. Maybe your seeing eye dog can explain it better.
Don't worry... everybody thinks Lebron is also an alltimer. You can rest easy tonight now knowing that.
thanks?
I have really enjoyed this series, but the upside of being over will be the borderline comical amount of coverage espn is giving it across their platforms. I get that there's not much else happening, but you would think it's the super bowl, World Series, CFNC, Stanley Cup Finals, and Olympics all rolled into one.
Um, are you on crack?Quote:
6'8 Lebron James is a better magic johnson.
Magic is 6'9
Magic won the Finals MVP as a rookie when he played CENTER for two games after Kareem was injured in Game 5. He went off for 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists playing center in Game 6.
And while I like LeBron, he will never be the passer Magic was.
That's funny coming from someone who goaltends for Jordan because you can't bear to think your favorite player might be an incurable *******.ATM9000 said:Junkhead said:
Never denigrated his skills, only his lack of a killer mentality.
You always need to caveat any comments about Lebron on the Internet that they aren't meant to be disparaging if you don't mean them as disparaging or Internet Lebron fans get super offended.
SACR said:Um, are you on crack?Quote:
6'8 Lebron James is a better magic johnson.
Magic is 6'9
Magic won the Finals MVP as a rookie when he played CENTER for two games after Kareem was injured in Game 5. He went off for 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists playing center in Game 6.
And while I like LeBron, he will never be the passer Magic was.
Most experts/pundits nowadays believe LeBron to be better than Magic. This isn't a wild or controversial opinion.
Those pundits/experts are wrong.TCTTS said:SACR said:Um, are you on crack?Quote:
6'8 Lebron James is a better magic johnson.
Magic is 6'9
Magic won the Finals MVP as a rookie when he played CENTER for two games after Kareem was injured in Game 5. He went off for 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists playing center in Game 6.
And while I like LeBron, he will never be the passer Magic was.
Most experts/pundits nowadays believe LeBron to be better than Magic. This isn't a wild or controversial opinion.
SACR said:That's funny coming from someone who goaltends for Jordan because you can't bear to think your favorite player might be an incurable *******.ATM9000 said:Junkhead said:
Never denigrated his skills, only his lack of a killer mentality.
You always need to caveat any comments about Lebron on the Internet that they aren't meant to be disparaging if you don't mean them as disparaging or Internet Lebron fans get super offended.
Jordan's not my favorite player and I'm making no excuses for him cheating on his wife or whatever... that's all obvious ******* things he's done... but we've all done ******* things in our lives. I'm just saying if you want to lead and be excellent, you have to be willing to step on people's toes. And I'll acknowledge he probably stepped on toes in a way that no player can ever get away with ever again which is why he probably will never be replaced in the basketball pantheon.
I have no doubt that Jordan has a ton of control over this doc... but don't you find it a little odd that so many ex teammates and coaches all agreed to participate in this and they all said, while he could be unbearable at times, seem to WANT to give their testimony about him more than 20 years later and it is mostly positive? That's evidence that maybe he doesn't just live life as the incurable sociopathic ******* like you have in your head.
Do y'all really care if these guys are *******s? I sure don't. Tiger - *******. Nicklaus - *******. Hogan - *******. Jordan - *******. JFF - *******.
Those are my five favorite athlete's - I'd burn my wishes walking with each on his personal favorite championship - and I have zero desire to actually drink a beer with any of them (except Tiger - he's an *******, but enough of a nerd that he'd probably be fun).
Those are my five favorite athlete's - I'd burn my wishes walking with each on his personal favorite championship - and I have zero desire to actually drink a beer with any of them (except Tiger - he's an *******, but enough of a nerd that he'd probably be fun).
CapCityAg89 said:
Do y'all really care if these guys are *******s? I sure don't. Tiger - *******. Nicklaus - *******. Hogan - *******. Jordan - *******. JFF - *******.
Those are my five favorite athlete's - I'd burn my wishes walking with each on his personal favorite championship - and I have zero desire to actually drink a beer with any of them (except Tiger - he's an *******, but enough of a nerd that he'd probably be fun).
Do I care? No... not really.
I dunno... I guess I get triggered like a Lebron fan when people conflate 'mean' with despicable. Nobody including me claims Jordan is a saint, but the fact that Jordan won at the level he did and people seemed to line up to tell the story so many years later and didn't just say mean things is quite a bit of evidence that he isn't just a despicable person.
SACR said:Um, are you on crack?Quote:
6'8 Lebron James is a better magic johnson.
Magic is 6'9
Magic won the Finals MVP as a rookie when he played CENTER for two games after Kareem was injured in Game 5. He went off for 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists playing center in Game 6.
And while I like LeBron, he will never be the passer Magic was.
No, I am not on crack. Magic was a great player. Lebron is better.
This is a great point. Ryen Russillo mentioned this in one of his podcasts recently about Isiah Thomas. Thomas claims no one likes him b/c he beat Magic, he beat Bird, and he beat Jordan. Russillo goes, ok...Jordan beat all those guys, too and no one hates him like they hate you.ATM9000 said:CapCityAg89 said:
Do y'all really care if these guys are *******s? I sure don't. Tiger - *******. Nicklaus - *******. Hogan - *******. Jordan - *******. JFF - *******.
Those are my five favorite athlete's - I'd burn my wishes walking with each on his personal favorite championship - and I have zero desire to actually drink a beer with any of them (except Tiger - he's an *******, but enough of a nerd that he'd probably be fun).
Do I care? No... not really.
I dunno... I guess I get triggered like a Lebron fan when people conflate 'mean' with despicable. Nobody including me claims Jordan is a saint, but the fact that Jordan won at the level he did and people seemed to line up to tell the story so many years later and didn't just say mean things is quite a bit of evidence that he isn't just a despicable person.
FAT SEXY said:
Do y'all rank Shaq as a Top 10 all time player?
I think he's fringe top 10 player, probably in the 8-12 range.
FAT SEXY said:
Do y'all rank Shaq as a Top 10 all time player?
He's pretty close. I think the debate between 8-15 can go a bunch of different ways and depends on where each side of the debate puts a players value. He's definitely in that 6-8 player window.
I place Duncan above Shaq.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I place Duncan above Shaq.
I think Duncan has had the better career, but if I had to pick one for a starting 5, I'd take Shaq.
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