Stive said:

---

Lots of pro players lose their fathers, mothers, siblings, etc without quitting their sport and going to play something else. I'm not discounting the death but his reaction was weird.

And according to the documentary, he had talked about doing the baseball thing to one of the writers they interviewed months before his father was killed.

---

Lots of players talk about leaving, but few actually do. You could tell there was a change for Jordan at the time of his father's death.

Also there are not a lot of players who are at the top of their profession who have their father wind up going missing for 3 weeks, only to find him murdered. I can't think of one other than Jordan.

There is a difference.

FaceMask said:

---

ac04 said:

---

lebron's 2011 finals disqualify him from GOAT talk. jordan never would have let that happen.

---

Jordan's Bulls team during the 6 year Championship stretch NEVER lost more than 2 games in a row. Let that sink in. He hated losing.

---

This is just flat out wrong.

And Lebron has a higher field goal percentage both on 3's and 2's, and much better defensive rebounds per game. Jordan made six finals series in 15 years, Lebron has made 9 and in 17. Jordan never made one without Pippen, Lebron has made it with three different "groups" on two different teams. Some would say Jordan made everyone around him better, and yet James has taken way more guys to the finals than Jordan ever did.

Jordan gets my vote for the best all time, despite numbers that say otherwise (Russell has the championships, Kareem had the individual stats, Lebron will eventually have most of the individual stats) but numbers and how they're framed are fun.

He was exhausted and wanted to play sport simply for the love of it again.
The biggest take away from the doc is how overwhelming it all had to be mentally, he had to be "on" 24/7. They did a really good job of showing of how it wore him down. His father dying was just the final straw, he needed a break and had nothing left to prove and certainly didn't need the money.

And yet he came back? With nothing left to prove? How was '95 different than '93 as far as pressure?

I get needing a break from that meat grinder, that makes sense, but what he did was weird. I can't think of another pro star in any sport that's done that. Tiger is the closest that comes to mind but his meltdown was mostly injury and drug related. Even during all of that he was constantly trying to come back; he didn't retire from golf and go try to be a point guard for the Pelicans D league team.

It was weird.

Bruce Almighty said:

---

FaceMask said:

---

ac04 said:

---

lebron's 2011 finals disqualify him from GOAT talk. jordan never would have let that happen.

---

Jordan's Bulls team during the 6 year Championship stretch NEVER lost more than 2 games in a row. Let that sink in. He hated losing.

---

This is just flat out wrong.

---

Nah, it's accurate, but it's more of an indictment against the East (rest of the NBA) than a compliment to Jordan.

The level of quality opponents that Jordan played against vs Lebron is a gulf. 80s and early 90s NBA had a ton of players that wouldn't even make a G league roster today.

Junkhead said:

---

Are you saying LeBron went through tougher opponents that Jordan to get to the Finals?

---

Did you read the context of my response? We were talking about how Jordan's bulls never lost 3 consecutive games in the 6 title years and i said that's an indictment on the quality of talent in the league.

Jordan's Bulls were literally the most talented squad in the league for at least 5 of those titles. Lebron's loss to the Mavs is the only time in his career where he lost a finals as the vegas favorites (which he made up for by beating the '16 warriors as the vegas under dog).

M.C. Swag said:

---

Junkhead said:

---

Are you saying LeBron went through tougher opponents that Jordan to get to the Finals?

---

Did you read the context of my response? We were talking about how Jordan's bulls never lost 3 consecutive games in the 6 title years and i said that's an indictment on the quality of talent in the league.

---

I did and you avoided my question.

Junkhead said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

Junkhead said:

---

Are you saying LeBron went through tougher opponents that Jordan to get to the Finals?

---

Did you read the context of my response? We were talking about how Jordan's bulls never lost 3 consecutive games in the 6 title years and i said that's an indictment on the quality of talent in the league.

---

I did and you avoided my question.

---

What does that have to do with the price of butter in china? the conversation was about the regular season.

M.C. Swag said:

---

Bruce Almighty said:

---

FaceMask said:

---

ac04 said:

---

lebron's 2011 finals disqualify him from GOAT talk. jordan never would have let that happen.

---

Jordan's Bulls team during the 6 year Championship stretch NEVER lost more than 2 games in a row. Let that sink in. He hated losing.

---

This is just flat out wrong.

---

Nah, it's accurate, but it's more of an indictment against the East (rest of the NBA) than a compliment to Jordan.

The level of quality opponents that Jordan played against vs Lebron is a gulf. 80s and early 90s NBA had a ton of players that wouldn't even make a G league roster today.

---

No it's not accurate. His first championship season, he lost two in a row multiple times, including the first two games of the season.

Bruce Almighty said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

Bruce Almighty said:

---

FaceMask said:

---

ac04 said:

---

lebron's 2011 finals disqualify him from GOAT talk. jordan never would have let that happen.

---

Jordan's Bulls team during the 6 year Championship stretch NEVER lost more than 2 games in a row. Let that sink in. He hated losing.

---

This is just flat out wrong.

---

Nah, it's accurate, but it's more of an indictment against the East (rest of the NBA) than a compliment to Jordan.

The level of quality opponents that Jordan played against vs Lebron is a gulf. 80s and early 90s NBA had a ton of players that wouldn't even make a G league roster today.

---

No it's not accurate. His first championship season, he lost two in a row multiple times, including the first two games of the season.

---

I took it that he meant the postseason but maybe I read it wrong.

M.C. Swag said:

---

Bruce Almighty said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

Bruce Almighty said:

---

FaceMask said:

---

ac04 said:

---

lebron's 2011 finals disqualify him from GOAT talk. jordan never would have let that happen.

---

Jordan's Bulls team during the 6 year Championship stretch NEVER lost more than 2 games in a row. Let that sink in. He hated losing.

---

This is just flat out wrong.

---

Nah, it's accurate, but it's more of an indictment against the East (rest of the NBA) than a compliment to Jordan.

The level of quality opponents that Jordan played against vs Lebron is a gulf. 80s and early 90s NBA had a ton of players that wouldn't even make a G league roster today.

---

No it's not accurate. His first championship season, he lost two in a row multiple times, including the first two games of the season.

---

...re-read OPs post he said:

Quote:

---

Jordan's Bulls team during the 6 year Championship stretch NEVER lost more than 2 games in a row. Let that sink in.

---

---

Fair enough, still not accurate.

...wut?

M.C. Swag said:

---

...wut?

---

90-91, started 0-3.

Bruce Almighty said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

...wut?

---

90-91, started 0-3.

---

Ahh ok, so he lost 3 games in a row 1 time in 1990. Thanks for that clarification.

M.C. Swag said:

---

Bruce Almighty said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

...wut?

---

90-91, started 0-3.

---

Ahh ok, so he lost 3 games in a row 1 time in 1990. Thanks for that clarification.

---

It means Facemask is wrong and Bruce Almighty is right.

Edit: Just realized you were asking for and received clarification, not arguing with him.

I think he was worn out with not a lot left to prove, but then after being gone how much he missed it, especially after he was able to decompress. Baseball was an escape, and after a while he didn't need it any more. Not much more complicated than that to me.
I was surprised though that they didn't delve into it more though, especially his decision to return. They didn't even ask him why. I kept waiting for that question and it never came.

I thought it was obvious likely that he returned b/c baseball went on strike and he wanted to keep competing at something.

The real question they should have asked is "if baseball didn't go on strike (or had the strike ended before spring training in 95) would you have returned to basketball?"

edit: replaced obvious with likely

I drove bus said:

---

Crap - you guys have made this thread insufferable. Taking it off of my watch list until next week's episodes.

---

oh no, what will we do?!

Stive said:

---

While I agree with you regarding Jordan being the best, your continued use of "traveling" to help justify that point comes across as comical and cartoonish.

---

I realize this and I don't care. There are 10 minute long YouTube videos devoted to the numerous and epic "travels" of LeBron. Find one of Jordan. It doesn't exist.

And that somewhat points to the nature of the 2 players. LeBron knows he can get away with taking 4 steps because he is LeBron. Jordan never asked for special treatment. LeBron not only wants special treatment, he expects it.

It's very annoying to watch.

I agree LeBron is incredible and amazingly talented, but if after this documentary, people don't see the difference between him and MJ, I don't know what to say. Michael Jordan is the most amazing athlete I've ever seen. Lionel Messi is the only person that comes close to that kind of greatness.

As far as pure athlete, I put Bo Jackson at #1. When adding accomplishments, Jordan is #1.

If you don't think Jordan got preferential calls you've got a short memory. The star treatment has been around in the NBA for decades.

The rules on traveling have, without being written, changed. The rules on hand checking and charges have also been changed (in writing). All sports shift and change through the years and will continue to do so. Heck, the generation before Jordan griped and whined about he and others in the late 80's and 90's palming the ball while dribbling. They virtually carried the ball every time up and down the court compared to players in the 60's.