Those people make me sick
*** BLACK PANTHER ***
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Last: 6 yr ago by wreckt01
Biggest faux pas was the Gorilla King saying his people were vegetarians yet one of their fishermen found BP
Brock Sampson said:
Biggest faux pas was the Gorilla King saying his people were vegetarians yet one of their fishermen found BP
I think he just said he and his family are vegetarians.
Saw it yesterday... Eh, it was OK I guess. Maybe it's personal preference, but I much prefer the ones with some campy humor. Ragnarock for example. This one had a few lighthearted quips, but nothing that gave me a big smile or made me laugh.
Definitely plenty to like about the movie, but nothing stood out over the other marvel movies. I rank this one right beside Dr. Strange... Glad they made it, enjoyed watching, but won't watch again.
Definitely plenty to like about the movie, but nothing stood out over the other marvel movies. I rank this one right beside Dr. Strange... Glad they made it, enjoyed watching, but won't watch again.
He didn't know that until the ring came out...Killmonger had a mask on when he freed Klau. Once the ring came out, the tide had already turned in the room against T'Challa. Would have sounded like an excuse at that point.mpl35 said:
My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.
T'Challa also didn't know at this point in the story about his uncle being a traitor to the country or that he had a son.mpl35 said:
Don't you think W'Kabi would have been more pissed at N'obu for selling out Wakanda and getting his parents killed and Killmonger for helping Klaue, then he would be at T'challa for failing to capture Klaue? W'Kabi (if he had all the facts) siding with Killmonger made absolutely no sense.
Come on. The ring came out during the breakout. He asked the priest about it and got the truth from him. this was BEFORE Killmonger showed up in Wakanda.FTACO97 said:He didn't know that until the ring came out...Killmonger had a mask on when he freed Klau. Once the ring came out, the tide had already turned in the room against T'Challa. Would have sounded like an excuse at that point.mpl35 said:
My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.
I hate lazy writing that relies on illogical/lack of actual communication to keep the plot going.
Quote:
After the death of T'Chaka, his son T'Challa must allow for challengers to engage in ritual combat before he can claim the throne for himself - representatives from the four main tribes (and occasionally an appearance from the Jabari tribe) and members of the royal family can all opt to enter the ring. Only M'Baku (of the Jabari) does, and he's soundly defeated - and with no other challengers, T'Challa is crowned king of Wakanda.
...until Erik "Killmonger" Stevens (aka N'Jadaka) shows up and challenges T'Challa for the throne, that is. The weird thing here is that the time for challenges has already expired - Wakanda is no longer in transition, T'Challa is firmly established as the king. The implication is that Killmonger - as a member of the royal family - seemingly has the right to challenge the king for the right to rule whenever he feels like it. Which means...he could have challenged T'Chaka.
T
he ritual combat idea seems to make sense when the king is extremely jacked, youthful Chadwick Boseman (well, sorta - he's actually 41! And wow, he looks better at 41 than I ever have or ever will in my life) - but when you're elderly and a bit heavier, as T'Chaka was before his death, your odds of surviving seem...pretty terrible.
Why didn't Killmonger challenge him for the throne then? Not only would it have been the easiest fight of his life, but T'Chaka is the one Killmonger ACTUALLY has a beef with - he killed his father and was the one responsible for Wakanda's continued isolation in the modern world.
And don't say he was waiting for the transition/challenge time, because he specifically MISSES that window, and just shows up after T'Challa's already on the throne - and no one seems to think it's that weird of a thing to ask. Just saying that - even though Killmonger was an extremely skilled fighter - he would've been better off challenging an old guy past his prime than Chadwick Boseman.
just quoting a couple of questions from another source....saves me typing them. I had the same problems though:
Quote:
Why did Killmonger bother stealing the Wakandan weapon, having Klaue try to sell it, extract Klaue, and THEN kill him? If all he needed to gain entrance to Wakanda was Klaue's corpse, he coulda just done that from the beginning.
As far as I can tell, Killmonger's plan can be broken down into four parts:
[ol]Kill Ulysses Klaue Deliver Klaue's body to Wakanda as a gesture of goodwill to help win people to his cause Beat T'Challa in ritual combat to claim the throne and the mantle of Black Panther Send out Wakandan weapons and tech to people of African-descent across the world to right the wrongs of oppression and slavery and flip the power imbalance [/ol]It's that first part that's confusing me - all he has to do with Klaue is kill him. There's no actual point or thing to be gained in working out an elaborate Vibranium heist with him or having him make a deal in South Korea. Really, from the moment he met Klaue, he should have just killed him then and there, flown to Wakanda, and delivered Andy Serkis' corpse to the first Wakandan he could find. By engaging in a complicated heist with Klaue, he nearly allowed T'Challa to have Klaue for himself, or be the one responsible for killing him.
That wasn't the plan at the start. The plan at the start was to get money to keep doing what they'd been doing from the sale of the vibranium. The plan changed when the Wakandans captured Klau.
How do you figure? I didn't get that at all. It seemed the entire time that KM was aimed at Wakanda. He has many avenues to making money/wealth. Yet he picked the one avenue Vibranium and Klaue that was sure to bring Wakanda into the open.MBAR said:
That wasn't the plan at the start. The plan at the start was to get money to keep doing what they'd been doing from the sale of the vibranium. The plan changed when the Wakandans captured Klau.
I rewatched and its flat out a great story. Oddly, I still have the same criticisms from the first viewing; crammed, KM's motivations based on what's on screen, and KM's sub-plot to enter into Wakanda. However, there is too many well-done things worth appreciating to knit-pick at things that aren't perfect.
mpl35 said:Quote:
After the death of T'Chaka, his son T'Challa must allow for challengers to engage in ritual combat before he can claim the throne for himself - representatives from the four main tribes (and occasionally an appearance from the Jabari tribe) and members of the royal family can all opt to enter the ring. Only M'Baku (of the Jabari) does, and he's soundly defeated - and with no other challengers, T'Challa is crowned king of Wakanda.
...until Erik "Killmonger" Stevens (aka N'Jadaka) shows up and challenges T'Challa for the throne, that is. The weird thing here is that the time for challenges has already expired - Wakanda is no longer in transition, T'Challa is firmly established as the king. The implication is that Killmonger - as a member of the royal family - seemingly has the right to challenge the king for the right to rule whenever he feels like it. Which means...he could have challenged T'Chaka.
T
he ritual combat idea seems to make sense when the king is extremely jacked, youthful Chadwick Boseman (well, sorta - he's actually 41! And wow, he looks better at 41 than I ever have or ever will in my life) - but when you're elderly and a bit heavier, as T'Chaka was before his death, your odds of surviving seem...pretty terrible.
Why didn't Killmonger challenge him for the throne then? Not only would it have been the easiest fight of his life, but T'Chaka is the one Killmonger ACTUALLY has a beef with - he killed his father and was the one responsible for Wakanda's continued isolation in the modern world.
And don't say he was waiting for the transition/challenge time, because he specifically MISSES that window, and just shows up after T'Challa's already on the throne - and no one seems to think it's that weird of a thing to ask. Just saying that - even though Killmonger was an extremely skilled fighter - he would've been better off challenging an old guy past his prime than Chadwick Boseman.
Putting aside the need to delve this deeply, this seems to assume a lot of things.
1. It assumes the king must fight, himself, and can't choose a champion. I don't know about Wakanda, but through history, requiring a king to fight for himself is not the norm. You could probably argue that in all likelihood, the Black Panther would be the natural champion of the king, especially since they have special rules about BP fighting.
2. This seems to ignore that T'challa accepts the challenge when others in the room seem to indicate that he didn't have to.
Collider Movie Talk discussed today the possibility of an Oscar caompaign for Black Panther next year.
Sigh. Give me a ****ing break.
Sigh. Give me a ****ing break.
Suppose to crack a billion dollars this weekend. That's ****ing awesome!
I thought I was overpredicting it with 850 million worldwide, but glad to be wrong.
I thought I was overpredicting it with 850 million worldwide, but glad to be wrong.
You have to make a lot of assumptions that weren't portrayed in the movie. Or consistent with the comics (to my limited understanding). I think the others were willing to allow T'challa to not accept the challenge when they doubted Killmonger's identity as a Wakandan. But T'challa knew he had a legitimate right to challenge so he allowed it to go forward.AliasMan02 said:Quote:
1. It assumes the king must fight, himself, and can't choose a champion. I don't know about Wakanda, but through history, requiring a king to fight for himself is not the norm. You could probably argue that in all likelihood, the Black Panther would be the natural champion of the king, especially since they have special rules about BP fighting.
2. This seems to ignore that T'challa accepts the challenge when others in the room seem to indicate that he didn't have to.
What I'm saying is that in the scene where they freed Klau....Killmonger has a mask on and T'Challa sees the ring around his neck. So he knows this guy has his uncle's ring but he has no idea who he is. Killmonger shows up in the throne room and T'Challa doesn't know who he is. Killmonger reveals his lip tattoo and the ring toward the very end of the conversation in the throne room when challenging T'Challa. Only then does he realize it's the same guy.mpl35 said:Come on. The ring came out during the breakout. He asked the priest about it and got the truth from him. this was BEFORE Killmonger showed up in Wakanda.FTACO97 said:He didn't know that until the ring came out...Killmonger had a mask on when he freed Klau. Once the ring came out, the tide had already turned in the room against T'Challa. Would have sounded like an excuse at that point.mpl35 said:
My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.
I hate lazy writing that relies on illogical/lack of actual communication to keep the plot going.
In Civil War, T'Challa is already the Black Panther, he just isn't the king yet. So yes, if there had been a challenge, the challenger would definitely face T'Challa.Quote:
Putting aside the need to delve this deeply, this seems to assume a lot of things.
1. It assumes the king must fight, himself, and can't choose a champion. I don't know about Wakanda, but through history, requiring a king to fight for himself is not the norm. You could probably argue that in all likelihood, the Black Panther would be the natural champion of the king, especially since they have special rules about BP fighting.
2. This seems to ignore that T'challa accepts the challenge when others in the room seem to indicate that he didn't have to.
He has had years to challenge...that's the point I think.FTACO97 said:In Civil War, T'Challa is already the Black Panther, he just isn't the king yet. So yes, if there had been a challenge, the challenger would definitely face T'Challa.Quote:
Putting aside the need to delve this deeply, this seems to assume a lot of things.
1. It assumes the king must fight, himself, and can't choose a champion. I don't know about Wakanda, but through history, requiring a king to fight for himself is not the norm. You could probably argue that in all likelihood, the Black Panther would be the natural champion of the king, especially since they have special rules about BP fighting.
2. This seems to ignore that T'challa accepts the challenge when others in the room seem to indicate that he didn't have to.
He saw the ring and talked to the priest guy. So he knew the second he saw the ring who it was - even if he didn't realize the moment he say KM for the first time.FTACO97 said:What I'm saying is that in the scene where they freed Klau....Killmonger has a mask on and T'Challa sees the ring around his neck. So he knows this guy has his uncle's ring but he has no idea who he is. Killmonger shows up in the throne room and T'Challa doesn't know who he is. Killmonger reveals his lip tattoo and the ring toward the very end of the conversation in the throne room when challenging T'Challa. Only then does he realize it's the same guy.mpl35 said:Come on. The ring came out during the breakout. He asked the priest about it and got the truth from him. this was BEFORE Killmonger showed up in Wakanda.FTACO97 said:He didn't know that until the ring came out...Killmonger had a mask on when he freed Klau. Once the ring came out, the tide had already turned in the room against T'Challa. Would have sounded like an excuse at that point.mpl35 said:
My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.
I hate lazy writing that relies on illogical/lack of actual communication to keep the plot going.
. Everybody else was doubting who he was. They just let a guy who's dad was a traitor and who helped Wakanda enemy number one escape. Seems like pertinent information to me!
I enjoyed the movie overall, just a few annoyances that bugged me that seem the result of lazy writing.
I'm going to have to watch it again before I settle on some of these issues. My initial watch just left me questioning some of the things. Figure this is a good place to hash it out.FTACO97 said:
Right, and he's like in his late 20s at oldest.mpl35 said:He has had years to challenge...that's the point I think.FTACO97 said:In Civil War, T'Challa is already the Black Panther, he just isn't the king yet. So yes, if there had been a challenge, the challenger would definitely face T'Challa.Quote:
Putting aside the need to delve this deeply, this seems to assume a lot of things.
1. It assumes the king must fight, himself, and can't choose a champion. I don't know about Wakanda, but through history, requiring a king to fight for himself is not the norm. You could probably argue that in all likelihood, the Black Panther would be the natural champion of the king, especially since they have special rules about BP fighting.
2. This seems to ignore that T'challa accepts the challenge when others in the room seem to indicate that he didn't have to.
~30+. Kid (10) was playing hoops in 1992. So if modern day is NOW, then he would be a bit older.fig96 said:Right, and he's like in his late 20s at oldest.mpl35 said:He has had years to challenge...that's the point I think.FTACO97 said:In Civil War, T'Challa is already the Black Panther, he just isn't the king yet. So yes, if there had been a challenge, the challenger would definitely face T'Challa.Quote:
Putting aside the need to delve this deeply, this seems to assume a lot of things.
1. It assumes the king must fight, himself, and can't choose a champion. I don't know about Wakanda, but through history, requiring a king to fight for himself is not the norm. You could probably argue that in all likelihood, the Black Panther would be the natural champion of the king, especially since they have special rules about BP fighting.
2. This seems to ignore that T'challa accepts the challenge when others in the room seem to indicate that he didn't have to.
I'd say that it deserves to be in the conversation for costume design. They really did a good job there IMO. But yes, other than that I'd say no.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Collider Movie Talk discussed today the possibility of an Oscar caompaign for Black Panther next year.
Sigh. Give me a ****ing break.
Its the best movie so far of 2018...jtstanley4621 said:I'd say that it deserves to be in the conversation for costume design. They really did a good job there IMO. But yes, other than that I'd say no.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Collider Movie Talk discussed today the possibility of an Oscar caompaign for Black Panther next year.
Sigh. Give me a ****ing break.
It's still early. It may win due to the diversity play but it was pretty underwhelming for a marvel movie.
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”
“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”
“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
Going to see it Wednesday because Alamo Drafthouse is giving free tickets to teachers this week
Living Legend said:Its the best movie so far of 2018...jtstanley4621 said:I'd say that it deserves to be in the conversation for costume design. They really did a good job there IMO. But yes, other than that I'd say no.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Collider Movie Talk discussed today the possibility of an Oscar caompaign for Black Panther next year.
Sigh. Give me a ****ing break.
This isn't the Annihilation thread
Oky, sooo I haven't seen this brought up yet but I thought it was slightly ridiculous that the tribes started fighting so easily.
Civil War isn't a non-issue. Some rando dude shows up and then claims to be a relative after attacking the king, stealing Wakandan stuff, collaborating with Wakanda enemy #1 and they uphold his challenge. Then, when they find out that the challenge isn't completed, they leap into fighting against each other with barely a second thought. There would have been resistance and arguments and sadness all over the place. Even in the fight, I think people would have been trying to stay non-lethal or something. This was easily the most frustrating thing in the movie to me.
Also, that's the VERY LAST panther flower and they want to squander it for another challenge? First of all, That would be cheating and they have all sorts of honor and stuff. Second of all, they need to plant that bad boy and regrow the garden. They are screwing over their children's future. Just assasinate Killmonger if you are going to do it that way.'
Did Mom and sis *really* need to run away? Were they in any danger? Killmonger didn't give them any indication of malice.
So, I wish they would have given Killmonger more story/more plan hatching. Supposedly he's this savant and super smart and stuff, but at no point does he really display mental acumen. If anything, he seems more brainwashed by his rage/grief/military training. I would have liked better to get a view of him being more cunning and calculated.
Lastly, the ancestral thing was kinda dumb. The concept was amazing, but our recently dead parents are hardly our ancestors. It was closer to a ghost waiting room thing with just their dads. It would have been sooo much cooler to at very least see the ancestral line of past leaders in the background. If that would have happened and then Killmonger spirit killed them or something.
I really found myself wanting to look at a map of Wakanda. For some reason I struggled conceptualizing the layout of the city-state
I thought Klaue and little sis stole the show. Super fun.
Costuming was incredible
All the visuals were gorgeous
The women were awesome, fierce, believable.
the "broken white boy" line was funny
Civil War isn't a non-issue. Some rando dude shows up and then claims to be a relative after attacking the king, stealing Wakandan stuff, collaborating with Wakanda enemy #1 and they uphold his challenge. Then, when they find out that the challenge isn't completed, they leap into fighting against each other with barely a second thought. There would have been resistance and arguments and sadness all over the place. Even in the fight, I think people would have been trying to stay non-lethal or something. This was easily the most frustrating thing in the movie to me.
Also, that's the VERY LAST panther flower and they want to squander it for another challenge? First of all, That would be cheating and they have all sorts of honor and stuff. Second of all, they need to plant that bad boy and regrow the garden. They are screwing over their children's future. Just assasinate Killmonger if you are going to do it that way.'
Did Mom and sis *really* need to run away? Were they in any danger? Killmonger didn't give them any indication of malice.
So, I wish they would have given Killmonger more story/more plan hatching. Supposedly he's this savant and super smart and stuff, but at no point does he really display mental acumen. If anything, he seems more brainwashed by his rage/grief/military training. I would have liked better to get a view of him being more cunning and calculated.
Lastly, the ancestral thing was kinda dumb. The concept was amazing, but our recently dead parents are hardly our ancestors. It was closer to a ghost waiting room thing with just their dads. It would have been sooo much cooler to at very least see the ancestral line of past leaders in the background. If that would have happened and then Killmonger spirit killed them or something.
I really found myself wanting to look at a map of Wakanda. For some reason I struggled conceptualizing the layout of the city-state
I thought Klaue and little sis stole the show. Super fun.
Costuming was incredible
All the visuals were gorgeous
The women were awesome, fierce, believable.
the "broken white boy" line was funny
jtstanley4621 said:I'd say that it deserves to be in the conversation for costume design. They really did a good job there IMO. But yes, other than that I'd say no.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Collider Movie Talk discussed today the possibility of an Oscar caompaign for Black Panther next year.
Sigh. Give me a ****ing break.
Scenic design and costume design both should be in the conversation
There's some good maps and layout of this in the Art of book, I'll try to snap a few pics this weekend.swimmerbabe11 said:
I really found myself wanting to look at a map of Wakanda. For some reason I struggled conceptualizing the layout of the city-state
Well to be honest, I had similar concerns with Iron Mans motivation in civil war. I mean he knows Bucky was being controlled yet he happily tosses away Caps friendship in order to get revenge for his parents death. Iron man was a real dumbass the entire film.
So the wakandans abounding lotic and centuries of peace because an outsider tells them to isn't THAT big a stretch either.
So the wakandans abounding lotic and centuries of peace because an outsider tells them to isn't THAT big a stretch either.
You thought waaay too hard about some of the little things in this movie.
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