mazag08 said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

mazag08 said:

---

Finally saw it. Yawn. Visual we're awesome, but the story was yet another prototypical origin style story. Villains were atrociously bad and I had no empathy for them. Suspense didn't exist because you always knew what was going to happen next. Wait, you didn't expect the mountain tribe to swoop in and save the day.. at exactly the perfect moment?

Black Panther was awesome, but his movie was less interesting than Thor 2.

---

I'm a Thor fan and even I think that's an absurd statement.

---

There were multiple things in Thor 2 that were creative and unpredictable. My main point was that BP, while being a visually pleasing and decently acted movie, it was one of the most unoriginal from a storytelling standpoint.

---

Hmmm...I get what you're saying. There were no real twists or turns in Black Panther. BP was the prototypical hero origin story. But there's a reason that archetype has lasted for so long...when the characters have a real charisma to them then the "young hero rising to the sudden challenge" story can be fun to watch. And even though I expected more from Killmonger based on all the proclamations of "Best Comic Book Villain of All Time", he did have a charisma to him.

Thor 2, for all the crap it gets, is really just missing a great villain. If they had written the movie Malekith like the comic book Malekith then they could have had a really good villain to play with for multiple Thor movies.

Crossed 500 million domestic today.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=main&id=marvel2017b.htm

Finally saw it. Our 10am showing was 90% full...

Great movie, but I think I'm suffering from some marvel fatigue. If this was the first one I had seen I'd probably rate it as one of the great action films ever, but 18 movies in it hard to get the same thrill. I don't think it helped that we've already seen footage of more avengers running around Wakanda with higher stakes.

The sister was super badass.

Loved the movie, but I Martin Freeman's American accent killed me. He did fine, it just blew my mind. I died laughing the first few times hearing it

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

Loved the movie, but I Martin Freeman's American accent killed me. He did fine, it just blew my mind. I died laughing the first few times hearing it

---

Define American accent? ****, there isn't even one Texas accent.

PatAg said:

---

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

Loved the movie, but I Martin Freeman's American accent killed me. He did fine, it just blew my mind. I died laughing the first few times hearing it

---

Define American accent? ****, there isn't even one Texas accent.

---

I don't think he is saying there is one american accent.

He is just saying for a Brit to sound non-Brit he has to drop the Brit accent.

But I don't know why Martin's lack of a brit accent was funny...he's done it many times before in TV and film. And in Fargo (tv) he did a very passable ND accent.

So finally saw it yesterday and it was a 230 pm showing in Waco. it was actually 2/3 full, even with 5 digital screens showing and 1 IMAX screen.

Solid movie, but not what I expected based on the "reviews". A good origin story with solid characters that sets up well for tie ins with the rest of the MCU. Some really good parts, some laugh out loud parts, and some that left me wanting more.

The good:
* pretty good one liners in Marvel style. The broken white boy line had many in our theater laughing out loud.
* visuals were good even with the massive amount of CGI.
* loved the complete insanity of Klaw.
* The rhino lick scene at the end was awesome.
* The sister being the science geek with a smart ass mouth was a nice touch. I hope to see some major interactions with her, Stark, and Banner in Infinity Wars.

The not so good:
* Even though Killmonger was the primary villain, didn't get nearly enough of him on screen. Even when he died, I still wanted more. I know that no one is ever really dead in the MCU but it was rather anti-climatic for me when the camera panned away as he fell.
* So nothing post "civil war" battle except a scene of T'challa walking back into the throne room was disappointing. I think a short scene of him dealing with the fall out of his best friend turning on him would have wrapped that up neater.
* Klaw dying so early as well and the way he died just seemed too easy. Such a solid insane character that literally lit up the screen every time he was on it should have went out more with a bang that a fizzle.

I'm sure on further reflection I can come up with more.

BernArnold said:

---

PatAg said:

---

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

Loved the movie, but I Martin Freeman's American accent killed me. He did fine, it just blew my mind. I died laughing the first few times hearing it

---

Define American accent? ****, there isn't even one Texas accent.

---

I don't think he is saying there is one american accent.

He is just saying for a Brit to sound non-Brit he has to drop the Brit accent.

But I don't know why Martin's lack of a brit accent was funny...he's done it many times before in TV and film. And in Fargo (tv) he did a very passable ND accent.

---

Along those lines, I was struck by Margot Robbie and Chadwick Boseman's Oscar presentation last night:

Margot Robbie (who always buries her accent in her movies) was speaking in her natural Australian accent while Boseman (who now I associate with his Wakandan voice) not speaking with any accent.

It was just so bizarre to listen to them both speaking naturally.

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

mazag08 said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

mazag08 said:

---

Finally saw it. Yawn. Visual we're awesome, but the story was yet another prototypical origin style story. Villains were atrociously bad and I had no empathy for them. Suspense didn't exist because you always knew what was going to happen next. Wait, you didn't expect the mountain tribe to swoop in and save the day.. at exactly the perfect moment?

Black Panther was awesome, but his movie was less interesting than Thor 2.

---

I'm a Thor fan and even I think that's an absurd statement.

---

There were multiple things in Thor 2 that were creative and unpredictable. My main point was that BP, while being a visually pleasing and decently acted movie, it was one of the most unoriginal from a storytelling standpoint.

---

Hmmm...I get what you're saying. There were no real twists or turns in Black Panther. BP was the prototypical hero origin story. But there's a reason that archetype has lasted for so long...when the characters have a real charisma to them then the "young hero rising to the sudden challenge" story can be fun to watch. And even though I expected more from Killmonger based on all the proclamations of "Best Comic Book Villain of All Time", he did have a charisma to him.

Thor 2, for all the crap it gets, is really just missing a great villain. If they had written the movie Malekith like the comic book Malekith then they could have had a really good villain to play with for multiple Thor movies.

---

I feel like this is a bit of a misconception of story though.

A well told story doesn't have to have twists and turns, and basic structure is the very similar for every story. A straightforward story with great characters and motivations can be a great story.

I also strongly disagree on

Quote:

---

Villains were atrociously bad and I had no empathy for them. Suspense didn't exist because you always knew what was going to happen next.

---

Killmonger was a really interesting villain and I don't think most expected T'challa getting beaten and tossed off a cliff.

Sure, we expected he would come back, but everyone knew Indy would get the ark and that Luke would blow up the Death Star.

M.C. Swag said:

---

Dr. Teeth said:

---

wangus12 said:

---

Sounds like Killmonger wasn't that oppressed if he got special privileges. It takes a decent amount of help to get that far.

---

Yeah, I had a problem with that too. Annapolis and MIT?

It would have made more sense if he had grown up on the streets, enlisted, and went special forces.

---

Yea I didn't understand that either. If anything, he's a shining beacon of the American Dream. A testament to how hard work can lift anyone (even the orphan son of an immigrant) from a life of chaos and poverty.

---

He was abandoned, but he was specifically fighting for the other people that were oppressed.

MBAR said:

---

The idea that because someone overcomes oppression they were never oppressed is poorly thought out. If we put Usain Bolt in a race against random other people but start him 20 meters behind everyone else, he still had a handicap even though he still wins the race.

Being good enough to overcome doesn't erase the obstacles you face along the way.

---

That's actually a really good point I hadn't thought of. From a 'this is definitely a comic book movie' perspective, is there even a person alive with an Annapolis/MIT/Special Forces resume? lol It's like creating the Superman character....'He's gonna have super speed, super strength, he can fly, impervious to everything....OH! AND he has ice breath!'

M.C. Swag said:

---

Living Legend said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

Dr. Teeth said:

---

wangus12 said:

---

Sounds like Killmonger wasn't that oppressed if he got special privileges. It takes a decent amount of help to get that far.

---

Yeah, I had a problem with that too. Annapolis and MIT?

It would have made more sense if he had grown up on the streets, enlisted, and went special forces.

---

Yea I didn't understand that either. If anything, he's a shining beacon of the American Dream. A testament to how hard work can lift anyone (even the orphan son of an immigrant) from a life of chaos and poverty.

---

He was abandoned, but he was specifically fighting for the other people that were oppressed.

---

No need to stank face me bro. And thanks for that plot summary of the movie I've already seen.

---

You've seen it but are still missing the point...

MBAR said:

---

Dr. Teeth said:

---

Living Legend said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

Dr. Teeth said:

---

wangus12 said:

---

Sounds like Killmonger wasn't that oppressed if he got special privileges. It takes a decent amount of help to get that far.

---

Yeah, I had a problem with that too. Annapolis and MIT?

It would have made more sense if he had grown up on the streets, enlisted, and went special forces.

---

Yea I didn't understand that either. If anything, he's a shining beacon of the American Dream. A testament to how hard work can lift anyone (even the orphan son of an immigrant) from a life of chaos and poverty.

---

He was abandoned, but he was specifically fighting for the other people that were oppressed.

---

Sorry, but you don't get to Annapolis or MIT, much less both as a prodigy, after being completely abandoned.

---

You all don't get superhuman strength after eating a plant. It's almost like going to those schools is just a plot device in a comic book movie. Almost.

---

Point taken.

It's definitely that, but it's that in a different way than is stereotypical for black people in movies. He didn't get out of the hood by rapping or playing a sport. He went to the naval academy then one if not our best science schools for a graduate degree. It's definitely superhuman, but in a different way.

Quote:

---

I don't think he is saying there is one american accent.

He is just saying for a Brit to sound non-Brit he has to drop the Brit accent.

But I don't know why Martin's lack of a brit accent was funny...he's done it many times before in TV and film. And in Fargo (tv) he did a very passable ND accent.

---

Yep. I never watched Fargo. So I've seen Freeman in the Office, the Hobbit, Hitchhiker's Guide, and Sherlock. Hearing him speak without a British accent just seemed crazy to me. I also didn't really see any point in his character being specifically American as opposed to British, but maybe that will be a big deal later in the MCU.

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

Quote:

---

I don't think he is saying there is one american accent.

He is just saying for a Brit to sound non-Brit he has to drop the Brit accent.

But I don't know why Martin's lack of a brit accent was funny...he's done it many times before in TV and film. And in Fargo (tv) he did a very passable ND accent.

---

Yep. I never watched Fargo. So I've seen Freeman in the Office, the Hobbit, Hitchhiker's Guide, and Sherlock. Hearing him speak without a British accent just seemed crazy to me. I also didn't really see any point in his character being specifically American as opposed to British, but maybe that will be a big deal later in the MCU.

---

I had the same thought about Dr Strange. I don't understand why he couldn't use his British accent. His American accent was such a weird distraction.

mpl35 said:

---

killmonger tossing T'challa off the cliff was the most predictable thing in BP other than the 5th tribe showing up to save the day.

---

I love people who say things like this after the fact.

But again, even if you saw it coming, so? Not every story is meant to be The Usual Suspects.

The story functioned just fine for what it was, and the film itself was FAR more enjoyable than the Thor 2 comparisons that are being made.

fig96 said:

---

mpl35 said:

---

killmonger tossing T'challa off the cliff was the most predictable thing in BP other than the 5th tribe showing up to save the day.

---

I love people who say things like this after the fact.

But again, even if you saw it coming, so? Not every story is meant to be The Usual Suspects.

The story functioned just fine for what it was, and the film itself was FAR more enjoyable than the Thor 2 comparisons that are being made.

---

I was just throwing it out there since you claimed people didn't see it coming. I saw that coming a mile away. I mean you knew that Killmonger had to win...yet T'challa had to come back and still reclaim the crown. Only a few options on how that could happen.

Kilmonger shooting Klau like that...
Killmonger breaking Klau out...
Killmonger burning the flowers...

didn't see those coming so it isn't like I'm super insightful....

My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.

Quote:

---

My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.

---

Killmonger had already killed Klaue and used that to get into Wakanda.

fig96 said:

---

Quote:

---

My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.

---

Killmonger had already killed Klaue and used that to get into Wakanda.

---

I think his point was that T'challa didn't say, "Uh, he was working with Klaue and broke him out of custody after I captured him. Oh, and his father worked with Klaue and is the reason he stole our vibranium in the first place (can't remember if we knew that yet...)"

AliasMan02 said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Quote:

---

My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.

---

Killmonger had already killed Klaue and used that to get into Wakanda.

---

I think his point was that T'challa didn't say, "Uh, he was working with Klaue and broke him out of custody after I captured him. Oh, and his father worked with Klaue and is the reason he stole our vibranium in the first place (can't remember if we knew that yet...)"

---

Exactly. First, T'challa could have told his buddy W'Kabi that he had Klaue but that he was freed by Killmonger instead of just saying he slipped away again. Second, when Killmonger waltzed into the Wakanda, T'challa had another golden opportunity to lay it out like AliasMan said. Perfect chance to paint Killmonger as a traitor and the son of a traitor and disallow any challenge.

Don't you think W'Kabi would have been more pissed at N'obu for selling out Wakanda and getting his parents killed and Killmonger for helping Klaue, then he would be at T'challa for failing to capture Klaue? W'Kabi (if he had all the facts) siding with Killmonger made absolutely no sense.

AliasMan02 said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Quote:

---

My biggest complaint was hoe all T'challa had to say was that Killmonger freed Klau and was working with him to undercut his attempt...yet didn't. Major flaw there.

---

Killmonger had already killed Klaue and used that to get into Wakanda.

---

I think his point was that T'challa didn't say, "Uh, he was working with Klaue and broke him out of custody after I captured him. Oh, and his father worked with Klaue and is the reason he stole our vibranium in the first place (can't remember if we knew that yet...)"

---

Don't know if we did. But given the circumstance I don't consider a flaw that he didn't say that, my guess would be that it was reasoned as T'Challa taking the high road and accepting his challenge. He felt guilt over the whole situation and what happened to his uncle and Killmonger, despite the fact that they were obviously in the wrong.

Guarantee you that was all very carefully reasoned out in story in any case, even if you don't agree with how it was approached in the film. I'm really looking forward to the director commentary after hearing Coogler break down all the thought that went into the casino scene.

M.C. Swag said:

---

MBAR said:

---

The idea that because someone overcomes oppression they were never oppressed is poorly thought out. If we put Usain Bolt in a race against random other people but start him 20 meters behind everyone else, he still had a handicap even though he still wins the race.

Being good enough to overcome doesn't erase the obstacles you face along the way.

---

That's actually a really good point I hadn't thought of. From a 'this is definitely a comic book movie' perspective, is there even a person alive with an Annapolis/MIT/Special Forces resume? lol It's like creating the Superman character....'He's gonna have super speed, super strength, he can fly, impervious to everything....OH! AND he has ice breath!'

---

I got to thinking and actually have someone who could almost kinda qualify. A buddy of mine that I was in Boy Scouts with is just now graduating from Navy with a degree in Mechanical Engineering. He just received the Churchill Scholarship to Cambridge to pursue a Masters in Engineering. He is the first US Naval grad to receive the offer since 1968. Believe me when I say the kid could get into MIT. He is wicked smart. Also has completed the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare training and some SCUBA course. Plans to go to Nuclear Power school as well.


https://www.usna.edu/NewsCenter/2018/naval-academy-midshipman-awarded-churchill-scholarship-.php
Here