*** BLACK PANTHER ***

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MBAR
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In reply to SeattleAgJr • 8:55a, 2/26/18
AG
SeattleAgJr said:
fig96 said:

People have been finding truth in fictional characters for thousands of years.
REALLY?!?!?!?! NO WAY!!!!!

Jiffy Pop thinks he is the arbiter and can shut down a conversation point that is absolutely salient to this movie, one that is directly addressed and core to the movie's narrative.

Sorry. The racism discussion is not going away as much as some of you want it to.

Are you claiming the film was racist because it mentioned slavery? Why are you so upset at society being happy over a film catering to black audiences?

You see liberal boogeymen in so many damn films man. You did this with Jedi too.

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AgMarauder04
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In reply to MBAR • 9:04a, 2/26/18
AG
MBAR said:
SeattleAgJr said:
fig96 said:

People have been finding truth in fictional characters for thousands of years.
REALLY?!?!?!?! NO WAY!!!!!

Jiffy Pop thinks he is the arbiter and can shut down a conversation point that is absolutely salient to this movie, one that is directly addressed and core to the movie's narrative.

Sorry. The racism discussion is not going away as much as some of you want it to.

Are you claiming the film was racist because it mentioned slavery? Why are you so upset at society being happy over a film catering to black audiences?

You see liberal boogeymen in so many damn films man. You did this with Jedi too.


It's a good movie. Really good. The fact that it's catered to black audiences is, while certainly a factor, less important than the quality of the flick. I do think reviewers and some aspects were a little more rose colored because of the demographic, but it's not egregious in the sense that it is already a very good and entertaining film.

Sets a VERY high bar, and I wonder what the reaction will be if future films targeting black audiences as blockbusters don't perform as well?
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to MBAR • 9:33a, 2/26/18
AG
MBAR said:
FL_Ag1998 said:
I think if your primary interest is simply seeing a comic book movie with lots of cool action scenes, you'll be underwhelmed.

If your primary interest is in seeing how this movie fits into the overall MCU master plan of Infinity War and propels that storyline, you'll be let down.

If your interest is simply wanting to see a very well-acted action movie with a much deeper theme than your standard action movie, you'll be pleased.

I came away excited with the prospect of having another character in this MCU who is a leader on the level of Cap America. We have so many characters in this MCU now who are great fun to watch and bring something to the table in their own way, but most aren't leaders. Some can be pretty selfish actually. But T'challa seems like he could take the "leader"/moral compass torch for the next phase.
I think you nailed it. I freely admit there definitely could have been more action, but to me that lack of action didn't matter as much because of how well acted the film was and how much I enjoyed all the characters. But I think you nailed why some people feel "meh" about it and that's OK.

Yeah kinda explains it for me.... I don't get into the whole comic movie thing really and I don't care about the overall MCU master plan or storyline.

I watch all movies pretty much the same - I watch them on their own merits as a standalone movie really.

And I enjoyed this as its own movie - good to great acting, great scope and vision (world building) and cinematography etc. pretty good action and the story had some depth to it.

I don't rate any comic book based movies among the upper echelon of all films (except perhaps The Dark Knight). They can be very very good of course but they are just meant to be enjoyed as a fun escape....to me. This was.

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TCTTS
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11:08a, 2/26/18
AG
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Gigem314
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In reply to AliasMan02 • 12:31p, 2/26/18
AG
AliasMan02 said:
This came up on my feed today from one of those online tshirt things. Thought it was funny that somebody could think Black Panther was awesome but come away that profiting from the illegal use of Jordan's image is totally cool.

Easily the most forced line of the entire movie. I thought it took away from what was otherwise a really cool scene. So he kills a bunch of his fellow people to get to the throne...only to all of a sudden relate to his 'ancestors' in his dying words? Didn't make much sense to me. But Michael B. Jordan played a great villian...even though it was hard for me to picture him as one.

I was disappointed with Klaw's story arc. For someone of the caliber of Andy Serkis, I would have thought his character was going to play a more centric role in this film. Especially with the way he was teased in Ultron. I feel like he was kind of wasted.

T'Chaka telling T'Challa in the spirit world that he had been preparing to become king all his life...but then telling T'-Challa to come join him and their ancestors in their next meeting, and T'Challa saying 'No I have to go back' seemed kind of contradictory to me. But the whole spirit world concept was interesting, and you get to see so much of their heritage.

I enjoy Martin Freeman...but I still struggle to not hear Bilbo Baggins even with an American accent...ha. It would have been funny if they'd tried to work in a 'riddle' when he and Serkis were together for Klaw's interrogation.

Overall, a very good MCU movie. I would put it above Ant-Man and Dr. Strange and slightly above Thor for the 'Origin' films.

It was very Thor-like in the sense that you had a combination of incredible technology and 'magic' combined with tradition and royalty.

I loved the visuals. I will be shocked if this film doesn't win some awards in that area. Stunning. And I liked the creativity behind Wakanda and their technology.

Really enjoyed seeing Dani Gurira (Michonne from 'The Walking Dead') as General Okoye. They absolutely nailed that casting! Perfect role for her. And after looking at the Infinity War trailer a bit closer, it looks like she's the one next to T'-Challa in the scene where they're all running on to the battlefield with Cap, Widow, Bucky, etc...so I'm hoping she'll get some decent screen time. Bad-ass character.

I also enjoyed the character of Shuri. Very likable and funny. She added much needed humor.

T-Challa is a solid addition to the Avengers. Looking forward to seeing his character grow in the upcoming films.
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dmart90
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12:32p, 2/26/18
AG
Saw it last night. It was very good, but not great. Killmonger was a poorly developed villain - Klaw was better developed, for goodness sake. Solid acting and cinematography. It lacked the wit of some of the other Marvel movies.
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Max Power
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12:35p, 2/26/18
AG
Finally got around to seeing it this weekend. And while it didn't live up to the hype/reviews I've seen out there I still really enjoyed it. I would say it's a middle of the pack MCU film, the following are all better:

Iron Man 1
Captain America 1 & 2
Guardians 1 & 2
Avengers 1
Spiderman: Homecoming
Thor: Ragnarok

The only real issue I had is they said Killmonger graduated from Annapolis at 19. Can someone clarify if that is even remotely possible? I would think to start at one of the military academies you'd have to be at enlistment age and I also don't think AP credits would carry him the rest of the way to graduation.
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Living Legend
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In reply to Gigem314 • 12:39p, 2/26/18
AG
Gigem314 said:
AliasMan02 said:
This came up on my feed today from one of those online tshirt things. Thought it was funny that somebody could think Black Panther was awesome but come away that profiting from the illegal use of Jordan's image is totally cool.

Easily the most forced line of the entire movie. I thought it took away from what was otherwise a really cool scene. So he kills a bunch of his fellow people to get to the throne...only to all of a sudden relate to his 'ancestors' in his dying words? Didn't make much sense to me. But Michael B. Jordan played a great villian...even though it was hard for me to picture him as one.

His plan was to aid the oppressed people around the world with Wakanda technology to rise up against their oppressors. He was tired of seeing his people suffer while Wakanda did nothing. I think that directly relates to the quote.
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Gigem314
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In reply to Living Legend • 12:47p, 2/26/18
AG
Living Legend said:
His plan was to aid the oppressed people around the world with Wakanda technology to rise up against their oppressors. He was tired of seeing his people suffer while Wakanda did nothing. I think that directly relates to the quote.
Yeah, I got that part. But to me, it still didn't fit. Especially since his plan was to force his will on the Wakandan people so he could exploit their technology.

I like the underlying message though. Killmonger wanted blind revenge, but T'Challa stops him...comes to see the flaws in his own bloodline...and decides to do what no one in his line has ever done before, in order to help the rest of the world. And he begins at the place where he believed his father failed.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Gigem314 • 12:57p, 2/26/18
AG
Quote:
I enjoy Martin Freeman...but I still struggle to not hear Bilbo Baggins even with an American accent...ha. It would have been funny if they'd tried to work in a 'riddle' when he and Serkis were together for Klaw's interrogation.
I don't see Biblo at all. I see Dr Watson which while not a similar role to CIA agent it's much closer than hobbit.
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SeattleAgJr
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In reply to MBAR • 12:58p, 2/26/18
MBAR said:
SeattleAgJr said:
fig96 said:

People have been finding truth in fictional characters for thousands of years.
REALLY?!?!?!?! NO WAY!!!!!

Jiffy Pop thinks he is the arbiter and can shut down a conversation point that is absolutely salient to this movie, one that is directly addressed and core to the movie's narrative.

Sorry. The racism discussion is not going away as much as some of you want it to.

Are you claiming the film was racist because it mentioned slavery? Why are you so upset at society being happy over a film catering to black audiences?

You see liberal boogeymen in so many damn films man. You did this with Jedi too.

Jedi just plain sucked.

Did not even need to address the liberal bull**** included with it. The movie was just a plain bad Star Wars movie.
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SeattleAgJr
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In reply to MBAR • 12:58p, 2/26/18
MBAR said:
SeattleAgJr said:
fig96 said:

People have been finding truth in fictional characters for thousands of years.
REALLY?!?!?!?! NO WAY!!!!!

Jiffy Pop thinks he is the arbiter and can shut down a conversation point that is absolutely salient to this movie, one that is directly addressed and core to the movie's narrative.

Sorry. The racism discussion is not going away as much as some of you want it to.

Are you claiming the film was racist because it mentioned slavery? Why are you so upset at society being happy over a film catering to black audiences?

You see liberal boogeymen in so many damn films man. You did this with Jedi too.

And TWO movies.

TWO MOVIES.
That is "so many damn films"?
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TajMaballer
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1:38p, 2/26/18
AG


This movie isn't just making boatloads of money, but also doing good for the community.
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israeliag
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In reply to Gigem314 • 3:26p, 2/26/18
AG
Gigem314 said:
Living Legend said:
His plan was to aid the oppressed people around the world with Wakanda technology to rise up against their oppressors. He was tired of seeing his people suffer while Wakanda did nothing. I think that directly relates to the quote.
Yeah, I got that part. But to me, it still didn't fit. Especially since his plan was to force his will on the Wakandan people so he could exploit their technology.

I like the underlying message though. Killmonger wanted blind revenge, but T'Challa stops him...comes to see the flaws in his own bloodline...and decides to do what no one in his line has ever done before, in order to help the rest of the world. And he begins at the place where he believed his father failed.
I don't think it was blind revenge. He very much wanted (in his mind at least) to resolve the oppression issue as he saw it. The reason he saw it that way was largely influenced by his father's treatment by T'Chaka, and his own upbringing in the projects/ghetto of Oakland, as well as his work for "the man" in the military and espionage world. And Wakanda served as the best way to solve that issue for him, exact revenge for his Father, and take the seat that would fulfil his own ego.

As to the villains of Black Panther, Killmonger is a better character due to his depth, but Serkis played a much better villain in Klaue than Jordan did in Killmonger.

The main detractor for Killmonger is that we didn't really get to see his growth into his arch-villain status as we did with Loki, instead we got a finished product whose backstory isn't fully explored except in exposition and through his father, but is what made him such an interesting villain.
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500,000ags
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In reply to israeliag • 5:00p, 2/26/18
AG
israeliag said:
Gigem314 said:
Living Legend said:
His plan was to aid the oppressed people around the world with Wakanda technology to rise up against their oppressors. He was tired of seeing his people suffer while Wakanda did nothing. I think that directly relates to the quote.
Yeah, I got that part. But to me, it still didn't fit. Especially since his plan was to force his will on the Wakandan people so he could exploit their technology.

I like the underlying message though. Killmonger wanted blind revenge, but T'Challa stops him...comes to see the flaws in his own bloodline...and decides to do what no one in his line has ever done before, in order to help the rest of the world. And he begins at the place where he believed his father failed.
I don't think it was blind revenge. He very much wanted (in his mind at least) to resolve the oppression issue as he saw it. The reason he saw it that way was largely influenced by his father's treatment by T'Chaka, and his own upbringing in the projects/ghetto of Oakland, as well as his work for "the man" in the military and espionage world. And Wakanda served as the best way to solve that issue for him, exact revenge for his Father, and take the seat that would fulfil his own ego.

As to the villains of Black Panther, Killmonger is a better character due to his depth, but Serkis played a much better villain in Klaue than Jordan did in Killmonger.

The main detractor for Killmonger is that we didn't really get to see his growth into his arch-villain status as we did with Loki, instead we got a finished product whose backstory isn't fully explored except in exposition and through his father, but is what made him such an interesting villain.
***SPOILERS***

It felt like blind revenge. I don't think him dispersing Wakanda's technology ever seemed like he was doing something noble, versus him just wanting to overthrow Wakanda and its prior traditions and bring the world into chaos. When he destroyed the plants, that felt like him trying to end everything. He had no intentions of creating a lineage for long-term control.
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Sex Panther
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In reply to 500,000ags • 5:05p, 2/26/18
AG
I thought the whole reason for destroying the plants was so nobody could challenge him. Although I think he had no interest of maintaining Wakanda's traditions so that was an added bonus.
**** THE RANGERS

**** GARCIA

ALTUVE IS GOD
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PatAg
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5:10p, 2/26/18
AG
Pretty good movie, loved the action scenes and some of the visuals in the movie. Feel like we saw some things we hadn't seen on screen before in the action shots. I like Jordan a lot, he was just kind of a mediocre villain imo. I think someone was spot on, some of this movies plots should have been spread over a few movies, specifically his story line. It definitely felt rushed to me.

I went in expecting to see a good comic book movie to tie in with the rest of the Marvel universe, and I feel like I got my moneys worth. If other people want to read more into that, that's obviously different for everyone that sees it. It's already been mentioned by a couple people, but it's interesting to see the foolish people, on both sides, not realizing how the "uprising" ideas were the BAD GUYS words. I feel like its another litmus test to see who you can just avoid in the future.
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500,000ags
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In reply to Sex Panther • 5:14p, 2/26/18
AG
Sex Panther said:
I thought the whole reason for destroying the plants was so nobody could challenge him. Although I think he had no interest of maintaining Wakanda's traditions so that was an added bonus.
That was definitely a larger component than the lineage component. But, the lineage component never even came up. It seemed like he was really putting everyone on notice that he was there to shut Wakanda down. Such a short-term agenda pointed towards blind revenge also.
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FL_Ag1998
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In reply to 500,000ags • 5:56p, 2/26/18
AG
500,000ags said:
Sex Panther said:
I thought the whole reason for destroying the plants was so nobody could challenge him. Although I think he had no interest of maintaining Wakanda's traditions so that was an added bonus.
That was definitely a larger component than the lineage component. But, the lineage component never even came up. It seemed like he was really putting everyone on notice that he was there to shut Wakanda down. Such a short-term agenda pointed towards blind revenge also.


Not to argue too much, you obviously took from the movie what you thought were the motivations, etc., but respectfully I think you missed on Killmonger's motivation. Gotta agree with the others that his motivation wasn't simply blind revenge.

That's actually why so many reviewers are pointing to him as one of the top comic book movie villians - he wasn't after simple revenge or power, he had a much deeper reason for what he did. A reason that many might actually empathize with. He was trying to overthrow who he viewed as the oppressors across the world. That was kind of the main fight between him and BP and a main point of the movie...division versus unity...harboring grudges from the past and using the might of Wakanda to become the new Conquerors versus rising above the past and using Wakanda to help everyone.

I certainly didn't see Killmonger wanting to "take down Wakanda". Like SP said, he just didnt want any challengers to the throne.
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PatAg
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6:09p, 2/26/18
AG
He definitely didn't give a damn about Wakanda. He had his own goals and didn't care about the repercussions for Wakanda as a whole, or it's way of life.
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FL_Ag1998
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In reply to PatAg • 6:22p, 2/26/18
AG
PatAg said:
He definitely didn't give a damn about Wakanda. He had his own goals and didn't care about the repercussions for Wakanda as a whole, or it's way of life.


This part is true. He didn't care about its history or traditions. But his goal wasn't to take down Wakanda. It was a tool for him. He wanted to use it to become the "conqueror" instead of the "conquered".
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In reply to FL_Ag1998 • 6:32p, 2/26/18
AG
FL_Ag1998 said:
500,000ags said:
Sex Panther said:
I thought the whole reason for destroying the plants was so nobody could challenge him. Although I think he had no interest of maintaining Wakanda's traditions so that was an added bonus.
That was definitely a larger component than the lineage component. But, the lineage component never even came up. It seemed like he was really putting everyone on notice that he was there to shut Wakanda down. Such a short-term agenda pointed towards blind revenge also.


Not to argue too much, you obviously took from the movie what you thought were the motivations, etc., but respectfully I think you missed on Killmonger's motivation. Gotta agree with the others that his motivation wasn't simply blind revenge.

That's actually why so many reviewers are pointing to him as one of the top comic book movie villians - he wasn't after simple revenge or power, he had a much deeper reason for what he did. A reason that many might actually empathize with. He was trying to overthrow who he viewed as the oppressors across the world. That was kind of the main fight between him and BP and a main point of the movie...division versus unity...harboring grudges from the past and using the might of Wakanda to become the new Conquerors versus rising above the past and using Wakanda to help everyone.

I certainly didn't see Killmonger wanting to "take down Wakanda". Like SP said, he just didnt want any challengers to the throne.
KM during the first two acts was spot on. Worthy of his own movie honestly, if Venom can get a feature film. And I empathized with his blind revenge. Ha

Joking aside, I see both sides. I'm certain it was Coogler's intentions to show KM's desire to share resources to be as important as his revenge. I just didn't walk away with that opinion from what was on the screen. After he assumed leadership, he seemed to be a hammer used to hammering everything. After the 'dream' with his father, I thought there would be a diff't path because of the emotion he displayed. But, he squashed that within seconds. Maybe I just didn't like the third act, because the movie already seemed crammed.
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dreyOO
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In reply to Living Legend • 9:05p, 2/26/18
Living Legend said:
Gigem314 said:
AliasMan02 said:
This came up on my feed today from one of those online tshirt things. Thought it was funny that somebody could think Black Panther was awesome but come away that profiting from the illegal use of Jordan's image is totally cool.

Easily the most forced line of the entire movie. I thought it took away from what was otherwise a really cool scene. So he kills a bunch of his fellow people to get to the throne...only to all of a sudden relate to his 'ancestors' in his dying words? Didn't make much sense to me. But Michael B. Jordan played a great villian...even though it was hard for me to picture him as one.

His plan was to aid the oppressed people around the world with Wakanda technology to rise up against their oppressors. He was tired of seeing his people suffer while Wakanda did nothing. I think that directly relates to the quote.

Hmm, not to be a contrarian, but I still don't see a strong tie. At that moment, his cousin was asking to save his life. He turned it down and threw out that quote...which did not fit. Those slaves chose death over slavery. This killer chose death over rightful imprisonment. That's a stretch. Or maybe I'm remembering the setup wrong.
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PatAg
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9:12p, 2/26/18
AG
He would rather Die Hard than live in chains...mister falcon
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Sex Panther
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In reply to dreyOO • 9:30p, 2/26/18
AG
Quote:
Hmm, not to be a contrarian, but I still don't see a strong tie. At that moment, his cousin was asking to save his life. He turned it down and threw out that quote...which did not fit. Those slaves chose death over slavery. This killer chose death over rightful imprisonment. That's a stretch. Or maybe I'm remembering the setup wrong.

After the movie I thought about this line and it didn't sit well with me. I think Michael B Jordan was great and Killmonger was an above average villain, but this line bothered me for the exact reasons you said. Not even remotely close to the same thing... But it's pretty clear they wanted that line in the movie for obvious reasons and to be this profound statement. It was delivered powerfully, but sorry... not an accurate comparison.

**** THE RANGERS

**** GARCIA

ALTUVE IS GOD
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500,000ags
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In reply to Sex Panther • 9:55p, 2/26/18
AG
KM wasn't a criminal in Wakanda, was he? He was technically a challenger that rightfully won the throne. He would have been imprisoned since he couldn't be trusted.
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TexasAggie_02
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In reply to 500,000ags • 10:35p, 2/26/18
AG
500,000ags said:
KM wasn't a criminal in Wakanda, was he? He was technically a challenger that rightfully won the throne. He would have been imprisoned since he couldn't be trusted.


He should've been imprisoned for trying to assassinate the king while in South Korea. End of movie.
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hurleyag
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In reply to 500,000ags • 8:24a, 2/27/18
AG
500,000ags said:
israeliag said:
Gigem314 said:
Living Legend said:
His plan was to aid the oppressed people around the world with Wakanda technology to rise up against their oppressors. He was tired of seeing his people suffer while Wakanda did nothing. I think that directly relates to the quote.
Yeah, I got that part. But to me, it still didn't fit. Especially since his plan was to force his will on the Wakandan people so he could exploit their technology.

I like the underlying message though. Killmonger wanted blind revenge, but T'Challa stops him...comes to see the flaws in his own bloodline...and decides to do what no one in his line has ever done before, in order to help the rest of the world. And he begins at the place where he believed his father failed.
I don't think it was blind revenge. He very much wanted (in his mind at least) to resolve the oppression issue as he saw it. The reason he saw it that way was largely influenced by his father's treatment by T'Chaka, and his own upbringing in the projects/ghetto of Oakland, as well as his work for "the man" in the military and espionage world. And Wakanda served as the best way to solve that issue for him, exact revenge for his Father, and take the seat that would fulfil his own ego.

As to the villains of Black Panther, Killmonger is a better character due to his depth, but Serkis played a much better villain in Klaue than Jordan did in Killmonger.

The main detractor for Killmonger is that we didn't really get to see his growth into his arch-villain status as we did with Loki, instead we got a finished product whose backstory isn't fully explored except in exposition and through his father, but is what made him such an interesting villain.
***SPOILERS***

It felt like blind revenge. I don't think him dispersing Wakanda's technology ever seemed like he was doing something noble, versus him just wanting to overthrow Wakanda and its prior traditions and bring the world into chaos. When he destroyed the plants, that felt like him trying to end everything. He had no intentions of creating a lineage for long-term control.
This is how I took his motivation as well. I mean look at him killing his girlfriend just to get Klaw.
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c-jags
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In reply to hurleyag • 11:38a, 2/27/18
hurleyag said:
500,000ags said:
israeliag said:
Gigem314 said:
Living Legend said:
His plan was to aid the oppressed people around the world with Wakanda technology to rise up against their oppressors. He was tired of seeing his people suffer while Wakanda did nothing. I think that directly relates to the quote.
Yeah, I got that part. But to me, it still didn't fit. Especially since his plan was to force his will on the Wakandan people so he could exploit their technology.

I like the underlying message though. Killmonger wanted blind revenge, but T'Challa stops him...comes to see the flaws in his own bloodline...and decides to do what no one in his line has ever done before, in order to help the rest of the world. And he begins at the place where he believed his father failed.
I don't think it was blind revenge. He very much wanted (in his mind at least) to resolve the oppression issue as he saw it. The reason he saw it that way was largely influenced by his father's treatment by T'Chaka, and his own upbringing in the projects/ghetto of Oakland, as well as his work for "the man" in the military and espionage world. And Wakanda served as the best way to solve that issue for him, exact revenge for his Father, and take the seat that would fulfil his own ego.

As to the villains of Black Panther, Killmonger is a better character due to his depth, but Serkis played a much better villain in Klaue than Jordan did in Killmonger.

The main detractor for Killmonger is that we didn't really get to see his growth into his arch-villain status as we did with Loki, instead we got a finished product whose backstory isn't fully explored except in exposition and through his father, but is what made him such an interesting villain.
***SPOILERS***

It felt like blind revenge. I don't think him dispersing Wakanda's technology ever seemed like he was doing something noble, versus him just wanting to overthrow Wakanda and its prior traditions and bring the world into chaos. When he destroyed the plants, that felt like him trying to end everything. He had no intentions of creating a lineage for long-term control.
This is how I took his motivation as well. I mean look at him killing his girlfriend just to get Klaw.
i think Killmonger's motivations is an interesting conversation. i don't think he was the best villain, but i did empathize with him greatly.

i read an article the other day where a black man was saying that people needed to realize that Killmonger was wrong for his tactics and end goal. i was like "did this need to be said?"

then i read the comments section.


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Sex Panther
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In reply to 500,000ags • 11:41a, 2/27/18
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500,000ags said:
KM wasn't a criminal in Wakanda, was he? He was technically a challenger that rightfully won the throne. He would have been imprisoned since he couldn't be trusted.


Where's the lawyer that broke down every criminal act in the Jurassic World thread? Fairly certain he could put together a pretty strong indictment against Killmonger.
**** THE RANGERS

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Living Legend
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In reply to dreyOO • 11:47a, 2/27/18
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dreyOO said:
Living Legend said:
Gigem314 said:
AliasMan02 said:
This came up on my feed today from one of those online tshirt things. Thought it was funny that somebody could think Black Panther was awesome but come away that profiting from the illegal use of Jordan's image is totally cool.

Easily the most forced line of the entire movie. I thought it took away from what was otherwise a really cool scene. So he kills a bunch of his fellow people to get to the throne...only to all of a sudden relate to his 'ancestors' in his dying words? Didn't make much sense to me. But Michael B. Jordan played a great villian...even though it was hard for me to picture him as one.

His plan was to aid the oppressed people around the world with Wakanda technology to rise up against their oppressors. He was tired of seeing his people suffer while Wakanda did nothing. I think that directly relates to the quote.

Hmm, not to be a contrarian, but I still don't see a strong tie. At that moment, his cousin was asking to save his life. He turned it down and threw out that quote...which did not fit. Those slaves chose death over slavery. This killer chose death over rightful imprisonment. That's a stretch. Or maybe I'm remembering the setup wrong.
They way that I interpreted that line was that he valued his own freedom more than staying alive, similar to the slaves that chose to jump from the ships.
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rhutton125
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12:30p, 2/27/18
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Accepting T'Challa's offer would mean life, but life in chains. Erik wasn't having it.
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MBAR
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In reply to rhutton125 • 1:40p, 2/27/18
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rhutton125 said:
Accepting T'Challa's offer would mean life, but life in chains. Erik wasn't having it.
Exactly, and he used a powerful metaphor that we should all - black or not - be able to understand. Saying that it didn't fit because people are trying to shoehorn more onto it is pretty ridiculous, IMO. The man just didn't want to be in bondage.
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1:54p, 2/27/18
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I went and rewatched it last night and I have a few thoguhts:

-Killmongers motivation really needs context that IS provided by the movie but I can see people missing it.

When Zuri is speaking to T'Challa about the incident in Oakland, He mentions that N'Jobo (Killmonger's father) was radicalized because he was shocked about what he saw in Oakland. I think I assumed it was a robbery they were planning in the opening scene, but this scene makes it clear that wasn't the case. It was some method of fighting back. The idea was to use the vibranium that Klau stole to help in these actions. I think this plays heavily into Killmonger's motivation to use violence to help the plight of black people all around the world. I think learning this also shapes T'Challa's motivations to open up Wakanda.

When he is in the ancestral plane and speaking with his father, he points out that he isn't crying for his father because he's so desensitized to death by living in the hood where everyone is dying. That shows how his environment and then his subsequent training by the US Navy really molded him into someone who would use violence, terrorism, assassination, and subversion to enact his vision (helping black people around the world). He burns the herb not because he hates Wakanda, but that was in line with his training (Ross literally states this almost verbatim).

There is obvious anger and wanting to seek revenge in Killmonger. He vows to kill anyone who supports T'Challa when they're fighting in the end. But there are many more things tying him to an agenda that was passed down to him by his father than just simple blind revenge/rage. A lot more.


-Effects weren't poor. I could definitely tell they used a green screen at times, but to say the effects were poor is just ridiculous, IMO.

-Klau was fine for what he needed to be, but he was a villain we've seen 348309480948 times in comic book films recently. He's somewhat eccentric and Serkis does a good job, but its a villain that absolutely lacks any time of complexity. I think he was good, but I don't understand the pining for more of him. I wouldn't have been opposed to more of him but I think Killmonger was far more complicated and complex. Not to mention the symbolism of Klau representing Europeans who have robbed Africa of natural resources for profit and then being killed is fairly potent.



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jtstanley4621
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In reply to MBAR • 2:05p, 2/27/18
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MBAR said:
rhutton125 said:
Accepting T'Challa's offer would mean life, but life in chains. Erik wasn't having it.
Exactly, and he used a powerful metaphor that we should all - black or not - be able to understand. Saying that it didn't fit because people are trying to shoehorn more onto it is pretty ridiculous, IMO. The man just didn't want to be in bondage.
I read an article that said Killmonger and T'Challa represent essentially warring trains of thought in the black community. I thought that the final line played in perfectly with Killmonger's character. He wanted revenge for the wrongs that happened to black people. He refused to live a life in bondage.
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