Back in season 2 or season 3, the Brotherhood without Banners makes it a point that the average citizen doesn't care who is king. They care about food and safety. Nothing more. This week, though, the citizens were expected to rise up and fight?
****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******
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instead we got the Fusilli Jerry death scene of Rhaegal
"one in a million shot doc"
"one in a million shot doc"
The white horse signifies death. I don't know if that means the death of Arya or her revenge arc, but I believe it was coupled with her seeing the mother and daughter burned to a crisp and she feels justice needs to be served to Dany and she'll be the one to do it.Social Media Influencer said:So far, that's the least talked about Big Thing in this episode.Quote:
She had a change of heart with the hound and went completely back to her stark roots. Empathy for civilians that have nothing to do with Ned's death.
Arya fled KL in hiding after Ned's death and hadn't been back since. She returns just in time to see it burn and crumble, and again narrowly escapes. I assume they gave her the white horse to let her ride out in contrast to the way she had to sneak out last time.
That's kind of what I've been thinking since last night. They reduced her to an emotional, spoiled child who doesn't understand grown ups and just wants to be Queen, tossing out life experience.Quote:
If that were the case, then she has the intelligence of a 4 year old child. Which runs counter to her character in past seasons when she's been pretty damned smart.
I just think the fear part would have been there without burning the city. A dragon destroying all the ships in the harbor, all the scorpions, a ton of soldiers...bonfarr said:
When Dany said "Let it be fear" then she was letting it be known that she wasn't planning to win the throne by winning the hearts and minds and that she was ok with collateral damage. She was going to take the throne by force and kill anything in her path Dothraki style.
Once she said that the innocent civilians were toast and just a means to send the world a message.
Joseph Parrish said:I just think the fear part would have been there without burning the city. A dragon destroying all the ships in the harbor, all the scorpions, a ton of soldiers...bonfarr said:
When Dany said "Let it be fear" then she was letting it be known that she wasn't planning to win the throne by winning the hearts and minds and that she was ok with collateral damage. She was going to take the throne by force and kill anything in her path Dothraki style.
Once she said that the innocent civilians were toast and just a means to send the world a message.
She was already planning on doing that either way.
They seem quite pleased with how that turned out.MuckRaker96 said:
Burlington Bar Bell Scene Reaction video has 13,000 views in first 20 minutes. And a cameo by young Hodor!
Quote:
When Dany said "Let it be fear" then she was letting it be known that she wasn't planning to win the throne by winning the hearts and minds and that she was ok with collateral damage. She was going to take the throne by force and make kill anything in her path Dothraki style.
This is the point of why I don't think it made sense in that moment. There was nothing in her path. She could have just taken the Iron throne.
To me that scene would have made more sense for her character going one of two ways.
1) She takes the throne immediately by flying Drogon there, but realizes that the throne itself isn't the power. Now, how that happens could go a few ways, but basically once she already has the throne she decides she needs to have a massive show of force, so she takes off and destroys the city.
or 2) The people somehow come between her and her goal. I floated this several pages ago, but maybe Cersei isn't there and she decides that as long as Cersei lives, the people won't think of her as the true queen so she rips the city apart in a search for Cersei.
Both of those scenarios at least give her some kind of twisted logic to why she's killing everyone.
I imagine seeing the red keep melted to the ground would put fear into everyone with actually melting everyone.
I actually think she made her life as queen harder. She may have more enemies now than ever.
I actually think she made her life as queen harder. She may have more enemies now than ever.
That's not what David says.Quote:
She was already planning on doing that either way.
Millenial as an insult will never not crack me up. People are allowed to dislike the way the show is going, and to have opinions one way or the other. It is, after all, a TV show.Episode IV said:All the millennial hipsters watching this in the bar and being all deflated and like "Nooooo" , are who I image the main complainers on this thread are like... if this last episode bothered you so much or was unexpected; this show is not going to end like you want. And even with 1 episode left, and certain things trending one way, and you reset your expectations again - it still won't end the way you want even with reset expectations for the next episode.MuckRaker96 said:
Burlington Bar Bell Scene Reaction video has 13,000 views in first 20 minutes. And a cameo by young Hodor!
Yeah, GRRM wrote her as a complex and intelligent character. D&D turned her into Carrie (from Stephen King movie).Social Media Influencer said:That's kind of what I've been thinking since last night. They reduced her to an emotional, spoiled child who doesn't understand grown ups and just wants to be Queen, tossing out life experience.Quote:
If that were the case, then she has the intelligence of a 4 year old child. Which runs counter to her character in past seasons when she's been pretty damned smart.
That's actually what I was expecting her to do before she went after people in the streets.Fenrir said:
I imagine seeing the red keep melted to the ground would put fear into everyone with actually melting everyone.
I actually think she made her life as queen harder. She may have more enemies now than ever.
aTmAg said:If that were the case, then she has the intelligence of a 4 year old child. Which runs counter to her character in past seasons when she's been pretty damned smart.Zombie Jon Snow said:Joseph Parrish said:
Because you changed it to what they represented...not what they did. They did nothing. There was no betrayal by the civilians.
Representation vs action....those are not the same.
This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.
really????
she usually tried to do what advisors (like elders) told her and failing that she's been nothing but reactionary in repeated situations throughout the entire series.
i don't know one calm peaceful or political solution she came to herself without advisors and heavy threats behind it. when they worked great. they sometimes didn't work or didn't work for long.
and then whenever those fail - she kills all those who anger her or the city that represents it to her in this case.
then her advisors kinda move along but scold her like ok dany... but next time sweetie let's try not to kill everyone in your path....
seems like a 4 year old to me.
(very much like trying to get a kid not to light an ant colony on fire.... eventually they do it anyway).
Champ Bailey said:BallerStaf2003 said:Aggie_2463 said:
Arya is going to kill Dany for wasting Kings Landing.
John is either going to hand the throne over to Sansa, hell maybe even ole Tyrion.
Hopefully Sansa.
Tyrion has been a complete failure for four seasons now.
Meh. I think the books handled him better, especially while he was enslaved, but the show has been fine with him imo. I think the fact that he promised to sign away his whole fortune in the books made him have a lot more to lose on the table.
Really? He completely screwed up Mereen. Screwed
Up with Cersei twice. I think the last good thing he did was black water?
Also, I guess they're not going to go into him also being a Targaryen.
I just think it's funny to still call GoT fans hipsters.
Literally the most popular tv show on the planet is apparently a "hipster" thing.
Literally the most popular tv show on the planet is apparently a "hipster" thing.
Social Media Influencer said:That's not what David says.Quote:
She was already planning on doing that either way.
David said she hadn't made the decision to burn the city until that moment. She was already planning on destroying all of the enemies forces.
It's weird that a couple posters on this thread can't just post their own opinions, and instead have to reply to every comment they disagree with to throw some catty comments or insults or try to shut down conversation (impotently).Quote:
Millenial as an insult will never not crack me up. People are allowed to dislike the way the show is going, and to have opinions one way or the other. It is, after all, a TV show.
shut it down, this is my personal POTDMuckRaker96 said:
If you had the close captions on, you probably noticed Sandor whispered "I love you 3000" right before he pushed Gregor off the edge.
I expected her to go all mad king around episode 2 of this season. Still shocking she melted everyone, but I think I prepared myself.
In this case I think Jon's in an impossible situation, but he also doesn't believe she'll actually kill innocent people.OldShadeOfBlue said:
If anything it's solidified Jon's character as an honorable idiot. I don't find it great writing to have a character go through all the trials Jon has gone through to ultimately learn nothing from it and refuse to evolve.
And for me I have more of a problem with Jon refusing the throne than betraying Dany on what she might do. He should have figured this out before she gave him a reason to.
I think this is a big thing that people seem to be skipping over for some reason.
Until she actually started mowing down the people of King's Landing, she hadn't killed any innocent people. She had been heavy handed with some punishments, sure, but literally the first thing we ever see in this series is Ned Stark cutting someone's head off for abandoning the wall.
Jon gave his word, and Dany hadn't done anything yet that indicated she was going to flat out obliterate the civilian population of King's Landing.
So Jon doing anything other than what he did wouldn't make any sense at all.
User name checks outSocial Media Influencer said:It's weird that a couple posters on this thread can't just post their own opinions, and instead have to reply to every comment they disagree with to throw some catty comments or insults or try to shut down conversation (impotently).Quote:
Millenial as an insult will never not crack me up. People are allowed to dislike the way the show is going, and to have opinions one way or the other. It is, after all, a TV show.
Exactly. Deep down inside. she really didn't want those bells to ring. And when they did, it was just one more thing telling her "you can't be a dragon."Zombie Jon Snow said:aTmAg said:If that were the case, then she has the intelligence of a 4 year old child. Which runs counter to her character in past seasons when she's been pretty damned smart.Zombie Jon Snow said:Joseph Parrish said:
Because you changed it to what they represented...not what they did. They did nothing. There was no betrayal by the civilians.
Representation vs action....those are not the same.
This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.
really????
she usually tried to do what advisors (like elders) told her and failing that she's been nothing but reactionary in repeated situations throughout the entire series.
i don't know one calm peaceful or political solution she came to herself without advisors and heavy threats behind it. when they worked great. they sometimes didn't work or didn't work for long.
and then whenever those fail - she kills all those who anger her or the city that represents it to her in this case.
then her advisors kinda move along but scold her like ok dany... but next time sweetie let's try not to kill everyone in your path....
seems like a 4 year old to me.
(very much like trying to get a kid not to light an ant colony on fire.... eventually they do it anyway).
bobinator said:Quote:
When Dany said "Let it be fear" then she was letting it be known that she wasn't planning to win the throne by winning the hearts and minds and that she was ok with collateral damage. She was going to take the throne by force and make kill anything in her path Dothraki style.
This is the point of why I don't think it made sense in that moment. There was nothing in her path. She could have just taken the Iron throne.
To me that scene would have made more sense for her character going one of two ways.
1) She takes the throne immediately by flying Drogon there, but realizes that the throne itself isn't the power. Now, how that happens could go a few ways, but basically once she already has the throne she decides she needs to have a massive show of force, so she takes off and destroys the city.
or 2) The people somehow come between her and her goal. I floated this several pages ago, but maybe Cersei isn't there and she decides that as long as Cersei lives, the people won't think of her as the true queen so she rips the city apart in a search for Cersei.
Both of those scenarios at least give her some kind of twisted logic to why she's killing everyone.
I think at that point she was not just thinking of how to win the throne but how to keep it. Her original plan was to land in Westeros as a savior with the people flocking to her side out of love and respect like she had in Meereen and the other slave cities.
She realized the people didn't love her and saw her as a usurper and they weren't going to just bow to her after Cersei was gone. She wanted to scare everyone into submission.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
also (and I refuse to quote the post in question) someone posted the leaked season spoilers a few posts/pages ago as "predictions." Those of you who haven't read the spoilers, just go ahead and skip this thread for your own good until next Sunday.
She doesn't care about KL, but she cares about a crazy "Cersei with a dragon" ruling it.MuckRaker96 said:Why would Arya give a **** about KL? That's where her father got murderedAggie_2463 said:
Arya is going to kill Dany for wasting Kings Landing.
John is either going to hand the throne over to Sansa, hell maybe even ole Tyrion.
Sansa / Arya already didn't trust / like the dragon queen, and after what Arya just saw her do.... yeah, she gone.
Arya will kill Dany, and "Aegon" won't stop her, and I bet actually sees it happen.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I just think it's funny to still call GoT fans hipsters.
Literally the most popular tv show on the planet is apparently a "hipster" thing.
It's pretty accurate to call the people that would go to this bar to be seen on the videos hipsters.
As someone said earlier, Gendry Baratheon is looking likely to take the thrown after all.
Like when she got the sullied? Her advisors were arguing against her selling her dragon, yet she was right and they were wrong. She basically got half her army singlehandedly despite her advisors, not because of them. Another example: In S8e3 Jon Snow wanted to sit on top of that hill with the dragons waiting for the NK. Dany correctly said, "the dead are already here" and realized they were wasting two dragons that could be used to wipe out tons of wights. There is plenty of examples of her being smart. The 4 year old thing is a recent D&D development.Zombie Jon Snow said:aTmAg said:If that were the case, then she has the intelligence of a 4 year old child. Which runs counter to her character in past seasons when she's been pretty damned smart.Zombie Jon Snow said:Joseph Parrish said:
Because you changed it to what they represented...not what they did. They did nothing. There was no betrayal by the civilians.
Representation vs action....those are not the same.
This woman's nature was to destroy those that anger her - and all of KL and Westeros and the North and her advisors betrayals had angered her greatly and killed 2 of her children and 75% of her army.
really????
she usually tried to do what advisors (like elders) told her and failing that she's been nothing but reactionary in repeated situations throughout the entire series.
i don't know one calm peaceful or political solution she came to herself without advisors and heavy threats behind it. when they worked great. they sometimes didn't work or didn't work for long.
and then whenever those fail - she kills all those who anger her or the city that represents it to her in this case.
then her advisors kinda move along but scold her like ok dany... but next time sweetie let's try not to kill everyone in your path....
seems like a 4 year old to me.
(very much like trying to get a kid not to light an ant colony on fire.... eventually they do it anyway).
If the shows tries to chalk this up "she was mad at the city and therefore wanted to burn it" then that's even more simpleton writing than I was imagining. I assume they just left some stuff out out of time (which is still their fault).
yep; did you see who was in the video? haha. Watching the show isn't hipster.PatAg said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
I just think it's funny to still call GoT fans hipsters.
Literally the most popular tv show on the planet is apparently a "hipster" thing.
It's pretty accurate to call the people that would go to this bar to be seen on the videos hipsters.
Watching it in a bar with a waxed beard, bowtie, martini, buddy hollys, fauxhawk, and other assorted hipster gear.... is
PatAg said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
I just think it's funny to still call GoT fans hipsters.
Literally the most popular tv show on the planet is apparently a "hipster" thing.
It's pretty accurate to call the people that would go to this bar to be seen on the videos hipsters.
Hardest hit were all the people who named their children and/or pets after a fictional murder.
Yeah, I mean that's clearly what they've decided they're going for. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
The city has surrendered. If she's that hell bent on instilling fear, accept the surrender, and then kill every single person in the city who fought to defend it.
There are a thousand steps between 'I need to instill fear' and 'I need to kill everyone in this city' and she didn't take any of them.
I just think it's lazy after seven years of all of the tiny steps her character has taken, that in her final act she's reduced to just 'well she's crazy now.'
The city has surrendered. If she's that hell bent on instilling fear, accept the surrender, and then kill every single person in the city who fought to defend it.
There are a thousand steps between 'I need to instill fear' and 'I need to kill everyone in this city' and she didn't take any of them.
I just think it's lazy after seven years of all of the tiny steps her character has taken, that in her final act she's reduced to just 'well she's crazy now.'
I think the enjoyment of this episode all hinges on the weight you choose as the viewer to put on Missandei dying:
If you believe that that represented basically the last vestage of Dany's inner circle being snuffed out, then you can allow yourself to believe that her torching King's Landing is in some way justified. She is motivated by pure hate and spite, and owes no alliegiance to anyone that lives under the banners of the people who did this. They did not rise up and overthrow Cersei. Dany was not loved, so she must be feared.
If you think that her agreeing to still peacefully come to King's Landing (even after Euron sniped Rhaegal) knowing that they had Missandei and would likely kill her meant that she was still committed to being loved and to having as peaceful as possible an ending to the war, then I think this episode falls flat.
Personally I fall more into the second camp, but I can at least understand someone that feels it was at least a little bit logical/in line with her character. I think I would buy that if there were more episodes. But it is what it is at this point, and it's not like I hate the show. It's just not what it once was in my eyes.
If you believe that that represented basically the last vestage of Dany's inner circle being snuffed out, then you can allow yourself to believe that her torching King's Landing is in some way justified. She is motivated by pure hate and spite, and owes no alliegiance to anyone that lives under the banners of the people who did this. They did not rise up and overthrow Cersei. Dany was not loved, so she must be feared.
If you think that her agreeing to still peacefully come to King's Landing (even after Euron sniped Rhaegal) knowing that they had Missandei and would likely kill her meant that she was still committed to being loved and to having as peaceful as possible an ending to the war, then I think this episode falls flat.
Personally I fall more into the second camp, but I can at least understand someone that feels it was at least a little bit logical/in line with her character. I think I would buy that if there were more episodes. But it is what it is at this point, and it's not like I hate the show. It's just not what it once was in my eyes.
Holy crap.. that is hilariousHeadGames said:PatAg said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
I just think it's funny to still call GoT fans hipsters.
Literally the most popular tv show on the planet is apparently a "hipster" thing.
It's pretty accurate to call the people that would go to this bar to be seen on the videos hipsters.
Hardest hit were all the people who named their children and/or pets after a fictional murder.
I found it funny that the Golden Company was about as useful as an a**hole right here.
*points to elbow*
*points to elbow*