****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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BlueSmoke
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8:25a, 5/13/19
Quote:
drawn in by the unpredictable storyline(s)
Past tense. They "were" unpredictable. Not so much anymore - my biggest beef.

Queen and her star crossed lover dying as their "world crumbles around them"
The Mad Queen flip
"Good" army now "Bad" army. Good not a always good. Bad not always bad.....
Two brothers dying killing each other
Arya surviving....but NOW....it's not the Queen that has to die.....but Danny.....dum, dum, dummmmm!
Jon realizing the error of his choice and that no matter the time. No matter the setting, the "Hot to Crazy Scale" is not to be denied.
And Bron.....is there a more worthless, underdeveloped character in all of entertainment. It's too late at this point. He could possess Drogon and eat Danny like a tic-tac in front of everywhere and it would be too late.
Nobody cares. Work Harder
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Marcus Aurelius
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In reply to Furlock Bones • 8:25a, 5/13/19
AG
Furlock Bones said:
serious question: why did Brienne not die at Winterfell? this would have made Jaime's ride back to Cersei much more believable than he deciding to bed the one woman he respected enough to make her knight then tell her to piss off.


Why was Brienne not involved in this battle?
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Cassius
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In reply to Broba Fett • 8:25a, 5/13/19
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-Cleganebowl seemed too even. sandor was outmatched and Gregor had the high ground. Sandor should have tried some tricks and definitely should now be blind.Who cares if he is blind? He's dead.
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Old Tom Morris
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8:26a, 5/13/19
I thought they did a decent job trying with the love-fear speech she gave to Jon. Viewer/Jon could have taken it as just talking about herself, but obviously, there was much more intended. Again, I just think the rushed nature of the last 2 seasons cost feeding that plant a little more before delivering it with massive slaughter of innocents.
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Dro07
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 8:27a, 5/13/19
AG
she was fulfilling her oath and protecting Sansa still
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benchmark
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 8:28a, 5/13/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
MW03 said:
Haven't read any of my fellow nerds posts, so I'm sure yall are dissecting this to hell and talking about how bad it was or whatever. But first impression: that was awesome. Flip of the coin when a Targaryen is born, and you have two. Dany went personal against the Red Keep, Jon is the measured and hesitant King the realm needs.

I don't like Jamie going back to Cersei, but he loved her so it's whatever. Come into the world together, go out together. I'm just glad for the Sandor/Arya scene and that it wasn't Arya's kill.

I'll go back and read all the critiques and whatnot, but for now, for a fan of the show that's read the books, I really enjoyed this entire episode.

ditto.

and i said much the same.

the last 2 episodes deserved a lot of the criticism - and there are a few naysayers here that are very vocal. but just counting up the responses here many more loved this episode then hated it.


Might I add, I think she was always ticked the locals wouldn't rise up against bad Cersi...
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Old Tom Morris
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In reply to benchmark • 8:30a, 5/13/19
Agree, and this is one area where I think the rush hurt. They tried to capture that feeling in one conversation, when it's at the absolute core of why she would kill all of these people and the viewer needs to understand it to get it. I think that was the angle to play on a little more, if there was more time. Perhaps a plotline where they are working secretly with folks in KL (maybe through Tyrion) to help overthrow Cersei without a massive fight and end up betrayed.
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Carlo4
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 8:38a, 5/13/19
AG
Marcus Aurelius said:
Furlock Bones said:
serious question: why did Brienne not die at Winterfell? this would have made Jaime's ride back to Cersei much more believable than he deciding to bed the one woman he respected enough to make her knight then tell her to piss off.


Why was Brienne not involved in this battle?


Or Yara, Podrag, Gentry, Sansa, Bran, Ghost, Sam, Tormund, Dorne, the odd kid that sucked his mommas teets way too long.
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agsquirrel97
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 8:41a, 5/13/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:
dlance said:
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:
JFC, there is a gigantic d**chebag on this thread, and you know exactly who you are.

***** This thread is clearly no longer safe from spoilers. If you are that desperate to talk about the leaks, start a new thread about them. *****
Call 'em out.
I'll put the poster's name in spoiler tags

Good Aggie Hunting

Ok so hold on.....I looked back through all of this posters posts in the last 2 weeks - he has never posted any theories or anything.

He did post one link to a spoiler thread - I think it was a reply to when the previous leaks were brought up and whether they had been accurate. He tried to put the link in spoiler tags but that did not work. Staff has edited the post to remove the link because of that.

but he had it with the warning:


Quote:
Link to leaked spoilers from a few days ago that seems accurate.

I mean we didn't want it here - but it's not like he posted theories or even links without warnings. And it was removed because the spoiler tags didn't work.


This was I think the post in question - it is now neutered anyway so safe to read:

https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2877532/replies/54239393

Is that what you are talking about?

no, he blatently was discussing episode 6 items last night about who ends up where that appeared to be obvious leak items and I can't remember if they had spoiler tags. I am not looking back at it, I have him blocked.

And I will answer your question from page 232 in a few minutes (from last night).
In absentia lucis, Tenebrae vin****.
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Tanya 93
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8:42a, 5/13/19
Talk about going scorched earth
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to aTmAg • 8:42a, 5/13/19
AG
aTmAg said:
G Martin 87 said:
aTmAg said:
Another thing I forgot to mention:

The fact that Dany wiped out the fleet and scorpions so easily was idiotic. Last week Euron's fleet first 3 shots went 3 for 3 from a mile away. They yesterday they looked like storm troopers. I thought they were going to do something smart to win that battle. Like maybe sneak up in the middle of the night and burn the scorpions on one side of the city, and then have Dany approach from that direction or something. But no. This time, she was just really good at flying a dragon and everybody else had really bad aim.
She dove in from a high angle with the sun at her back. Turns out that Euron wasn't seeing hundreds of baby Drogons (like the more ridiculous theorists suggested from last week's preview), but squinting into the sun unable to be sure what he was seeing.
I'll give her the first dive. It's the 20 after that which are a problem, IMO.

They don't rotate easily at all or adjust angle - they are big lumbering weapons. They had limited tactical ability really. After the first dive once she was swooping and diving through them it was from 20 different angles they could not adjust to on the fly.
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Aggie12B
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In reply to Max Power • 8:43a, 5/13/19
AG
Max Power said:

I'll truly miss it when it's gone.
You'll still be able to watch it over and over again as much as you want, it's not like the series is going to suddenly go up in flames just like Kings Landing
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aTmAg
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In reply to Dro07 • 8:44a, 5/13/19
AG
dromo07 said:
everyone saw the turn coming if you didn't then they haven't been paying attention. I think its just a culmination of a rapid season that needed more meat to it.

My biggest gripe honestly is the Jamie story line. Dude went from total redemption to just being the same person at the end just not as arrogant. He became one of my favorite characters and I guess thats what happens in the game of thrones when you have a favorite character.
My problem is that the only real evidence that the "turn" was coming was characters talking about the turn coming.

Killing the Tarly's wasn't insane. Killing the slavers wasn't insane. Burning various people in self defense wasn't insane. Hearing bells ring after winning a battle and then deciding to burn a million people including your own troops is bat-sh** crazy. It made no sense.

I have no problem with the plot line of her going insane. My problem is D&D trying to "surprise" the audience so much that the turn became sudden and ridiculous.

I realize that if they provided evidence that she was insane (like Leonardo Decaprio did as Howard Hughes) then that would have spoiled the surprise. I think my idea would have been much better. Have her see a civilian kill one of her soldiers and have her toast that civilian. then have other civilians pick up bows and arrows and shoot them at her, then have her burn them up, and then say F-it and burn the whole city down. It wouldn't have been hard to make that part make a little bit of sense. Having the bells ring, and then her have a crazy bit flip in her head was terrible.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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8:44a, 5/13/19
AG
Her burning all of the scorpions is not the problem. The problem was the three bolts that hit Rhaegal last week.

But that's all water under the bridge.
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Zombie Jon Snow
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In reply to agsquirrel97 • 8:46a, 5/13/19
AG

ok i see that one post now. odd post yes. should be deleted.
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bobinator
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8:48a, 5/13/19
AG
I know I'm like 25 pages late to the conversation, but I don't get how people don't have more of a problem with that moment with Dany. It's not that she went bad and destroyed everything, that was clearly going to happen. It's just that moment made no sense, and it destroyed seven seasons of character building.

She's obsessed with the Iron Throne, so much so that now, after everything she's gone through, she's willing to do anything to get it.

And yet, it's finally right there, the red keep is undefended now. Nothing can stop her. All she has to do is fly there and take the throne. Literally the thing she's obsessed with is finally hers for the taking. And instead she hears some bells and decides it's time to kill everyone in the city?

The way they needed to make this pay off was to put the people between her and what she wanted. That was going to be Dany's ultimate descent into madness. She'd be able to get the throne, but it was going to cost her thousands of innocent lives, and she decides to spend the lives. That's what we've been building toward.

Just as one idea, maybe they could have had her fly Drogon to the keep, see that Cersei isn't there, scream something about how as long as Cersei lives people won't consider her the true queen, so to find Cersei she starts ripping the city apart, killing thousands of innocent people as she burns down building after building searching for her. Basically everything that happened, but it's in a search for Cersei.

That still has the madness, the obsession, the singular focus, but it at least gives her a kind of twisted logic.

Instead, finally with the thing she's obsessed with in easy grasp, she took a hard turn to genocide town.
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saltydog13
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In reply to Max Power • 8:49a, 5/13/19
AG
Pretty much this. I was late to the game and didnt start the series until last year, but man it's one wild ride. I restarted from season one last week and it's crazy to see the difference between then and now with season 8. I'll probably read the books as well now
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aTmAg
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 8:51a, 5/13/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
aTmAg said:
G Martin 87 said:
aTmAg said:
Another thing I forgot to mention:

The fact that Dany wiped out the fleet and scorpions so easily was idiotic. Last week Euron's fleet first 3 shots went 3 for 3 from a mile away. They yesterday they looked like storm troopers. I thought they were going to do something smart to win that battle. Like maybe sneak up in the middle of the night and burn the scorpions on one side of the city, and then have Dany approach from that direction or something. But no. This time, she was just really good at flying a dragon and everybody else had really bad aim.
She dove in from a high angle with the sun at her back. Turns out that Euron wasn't seeing hundreds of baby Drogons (like the more ridiculous theorists suggested from last week's preview), but squinting into the sun unable to be sure what he was seeing.
I'll give her the first dive. It's the 20 after that which are a problem, IMO.

They don't rotate easily at all or adjust angle - they are big lumbering weapons. They had limited tactical ability really. After the first dive once she was swooping and diving through them it was from 20 different angles they could not adjust to on the fly.
The fleet was far enough from the city for that to not matter. If they could 3-tap a dragon from the ships a mile away last episode, then surely the ones on land cold hit her once when she was attacking the fleet. Especially on that first dive when she wasn't turning. Diving from the sun doesn't work on everybody. Just on the people near her shadow.

Surely you'll admit that it went from, "I have doubts that Dany can win this thing" after last episode to the most overwhelmingly powerful victory imaginable this episode.
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The Dog Lord
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In reply to Ranger222 • 8:53a, 5/13/19
AG
Ranger222 said:
The biggest issue with this episode, the Dany turn, and really the storytelling in general is they just don't have enough time for it to marinate. We really needed a filler episode between 4 & 5 that went into more detail about the grief Dany was feeling. We needed more depressed Dany time for us to really get her turn.

Lets do a quick recap --
She lost Jorah who has been with her from the beginning
She lost Missandei, her only true female friend
She has lost two of her children
She lost the trust of Varys, who brought her to Westeros
Tyrion has made mistake after mistake and she can't trust him
Most importantly, she lost Jon who she loved who will no longer reciprocate any love interest in her
The only person on her current side is Greyworm, just because he is grieving the loss of Missandei as well.

The scene between Dany and Jon last night at Dragonstone should have been way more impactful than it was. Jon stops her advances and she says "well thats it now, isn't it?" That is where she turns and realizes there really isn't anything left for her. She even goes on to say that she came to Westeros and nobody loves her. Not the people, not her closest advisors, not Jon. This has gone down the exact opposite of how she expected. Even after helping the North defeat the NK, the people still loved Jon, not her. She is an outsider and will always be. This was her reckoning with that realization.

I am surprised by the amount of people that don't get that, but I think this is where the season falls short. Just not enough time to let that develop like it would have in earlier seasons. The decision for the 6 episode season is really the downfall here, especially after HBO offered them 10 that could have let these things play out more.
Are things as bad as they are making it out to be though? After the BoW, Tormund toasted the Dragon Queen first, and everyone erupted into cheers. Yes, they all gathered around Jon after that, but she is basing her whole perception of the "people" off of the Tarlys (who had an ******* as a leader) and the Northerners (who everyone says are more *****ly about ruling themselves than anyone else in Westeros). Dorne, Highgarden, and Yara declared for her early on. They were just taken out of play early on. The new Prince of Dorne is apparently still in support of her.

As someone else mentioned, I'd like to have seen some houses/people actually stop supporting her or do something to make it more obvious that she has lost the people. Maybe she needed to do a few more questionable things to start making people desert her. That could have then made her more desperate and paranoid which would have pushed her further toward the mad side.
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TPS_Report
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8:53a, 5/13/19
AG
The reason GOT was so good for so long was because they had terrific source material to draw from. Once that dwindled to outlines and inklings, the show went downhill FAST. Add in the fact that they had to finish it so quickly, they never had a chance. It will be interesting to see how the books end.
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aTmAg
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In reply to bobinator • 8:53a, 5/13/19
AG
bobinator said:
I know I'm like 25 pages late to the conversation, but I don't get how people don't have more of a problem with that moment with Dany. It's not that she went bad and destroyed everything, that was clearly going to happen. It's just that moment made no sense, and it destroyed seven seasons of character building.

She's obsessed with the Iron Throne, so much so that now, after everything she's gone through, she's willing to do anything to get it.

And yet, it's finally right there, the red keep is undefended now. Nothing can stop her. All she has to do is fly there and take the throne. Literally the thing she's obsessed with is finally hers for the taking. And instead she hears some bells and decides it's time to kill everyone in the city?

The way they needed to make this pay off was to put the people between her and what she wanted. That was going to be Dany's ultimate descent into madness. She'd be able to get the throne, but it was going to cost her thousands of innocent lives, and she decides to spend the lives. That's what we've been building toward.

Just as one idea, maybe they could have had her fly Drogon to the keep, see that Cersei isn't there, scream something about how as long as Cersei lives people won't consider her the true queen, so to find Cersei she starts ripping the city apart, killing thousands of innocent people as she burns down building after building searching for her. Basically everything that happened, but it's in a search for Cersei.

That still has the madness, the obsession, the singular focus, but it at least gives her a kind of twisted logic.

Instead, finally with the thing she's obsessed with in easy grasp, she took a hard turn to genocide town.
Agree 100%. That has been my #1 complaint about the episode.

And I like your idea on why Dany would wipe out the city.
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aTmAg
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In reply to TPS_Report • 8:54a, 5/13/19
AG
TPS_Report said:
The reason GOT was so good for so long was because they had terrific source material to draw from. Once that dwindled to outlines and inklings, the show went downhill FAST. Add in the fact that they had to finish it so quickly, they never had a chance. It will be interesting to see how the books end.
The bad this is that they didn't have to. HBO offered them more money to make it a 10 episode season. D&D turned it down and provided this crap-fest instead.
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gambochaman
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8:55a, 5/13/19
AG
HATERS GONNA HATE

THIS WAS PURE EPICNESS OF THE MOST AMAZING KIND

if you couldnt see Dany slowly losing her marbles, then you definitely were not paying attention...all of the trauma suffered throughout her life came to a boiling point yesterday. What would have made no sense is if the bells had rang and she had called off the attack...would have been very out of character


either way, she dies next week
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StringerBell
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8:57a, 5/13/19
AG
i bought dany beating the scorpions this time. last two times that a dragon has been taken out (spear from the night king and then the scorpion) it's 1) come as a surprise and 2) come when no one was riding the dragon.

this time she knew what weapon they had and how she needed to attack. being up in the clouds and then basically hitting them with the stick and move made sense. also makes perfect sense as to why people feared dany--one dragon caused that much mayhem the thought of three full grown dragons is just bananas.

my only beef was cersei going out like a punk. go do something. i know all is lost but **** woman go do something and try and salvage your dignity.

enjoyed the hell out of the episode.
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Quinn
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 8:57a, 5/13/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
aTmAg said:
G Martin 87 said:
aTmAg said:
Another thing I forgot to mention:

The fact that Dany wiped out the fleet and scorpions so easily was idiotic. Last week Euron's fleet first 3 shots went 3 for 3 from a mile away. They yesterday they looked like storm troopers. I thought they were going to do something smart to win that battle. Like maybe sneak up in the middle of the night and burn the scorpions on one side of the city, and then have Dany approach from that direction or something. But no. This time, she was just really good at flying a dragon and everybody else had really bad aim.
She dove in from a high angle with the sun at her back. Turns out that Euron wasn't seeing hundreds of baby Drogons (like the more ridiculous theorists suggested from last week's preview), but squinting into the sun unable to be sure what he was seeing.
I'll give her the first dive. It's the 20 after that which are a problem, IMO.

They don't rotate easily at all or adjust angle - they are big lumbering weapons. They had limited tactical ability really. After the first dive once she was swooping and diving through them it was from 20 different angles they could not adjust to on the fly.
The episode showed guys on Euron's boat easily pushing the weapon to face a different direction.
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aTmAg
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In reply to gambochaman • 8:58a, 5/13/19
AG
gambochaman said:
HATERS GONNA HATE

THIS WAS PURE EPICNESS OF THE MOST AMAZING KIND

if you couldnt see Dany slowly losing her marbles, then you definitely were not paying attention...all of the trauma suffered throughout her life came to a boiling point yesterday. What would have made no sense is if the bells had rang and she had called off the attack...would have been very out of character


either way, she dies next week
I have been defending the show all season long. This episode was just bad.

Visually stunning, but terrible plot.
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gambochaman
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8:59a, 5/13/19
AG
says you

I thought it was magnificent
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Urban Ag
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In reply to Zombie Jon Snow • 8:59a, 5/13/19
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:
aTmAg said:
G Martin 87 said:
aTmAg said:
Another thing I forgot to mention:

The fact that Dany wiped out the fleet and scorpions so easily was idiotic. Last week Euron's fleet first 3 shots went 3 for 3 from a mile away. They yesterday they looked like storm troopers. I thought they were going to do something smart to win that battle. Like maybe sneak up in the middle of the night and burn the scorpions on one side of the city, and then have Dany approach from that direction or something. But no. This time, she was just really good at flying a dragon and everybody else had really bad aim.
She dove in from a high angle with the sun at her back. Turns out that Euron wasn't seeing hundreds of baby Drogons (like the more ridiculous theorists suggested from last week's preview), but squinting into the sun unable to be sure what he was seeing.
I'll give her the first dive. It's the 20 after that which are a problem, IMO.

They don't rotate easily at all or adjust angle - they are big lumbering weapons. They had limited tactical ability really. After the first dive once she was swooping and diving through them it was from 20 different angles they could not adjust to on the fly.
Bottom line, much easier to kill a dragon when they fly in to an ambush and the death of a dragon is needed to fuel the anger and resentment that will be unleashed in the next episode. Also when you're a mystical being that can chuck magic ice javelins.

When the dragon/rider go in to battle on their terms (also seen in Merreen and the Reach and well documented in Targ history) it's something else completely. And when the first ship or scorpion placement goes up in dragon napalm and you see your buddies skin pealing off his face, typical response is to shat said britches and then the route is on.

S8E5 was a top five all time for me. Outstanding.
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Trident 88
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In reply to Ranger222 • 8:59a, 5/13/19
AG
Ranger222 said:
The biggest issue with this episode, the Dany turn, and really the storytelling in general is they just don't have enough time for it to marinate. We really needed a filler episode between 4 & 5 that went into more detail about the grief Dany was feeling. We needed more depressed Dany time for us to really get her turn.

Lets do a quick recap --
She lost Jorah who has been with her from the beginning
She lost Missandei, her only true female friend
She has lost two of her children
She lost the trust of Varys, who brought her to Westeros
Tyrion has made mistake after mistake and she can't trust him
Most importantly, she lost Jon who she loved who will no longer reciprocate any love interest in her
The only person on her current side is Greyworm, just because he is grieving the loss of Missandei as well.

The scene between Dany and Jon last night at Dragonstone should have been way more impactful than it was. Jon stops her advances and she says "well thats it now, isn't it?" That is where she turns and realizes there really isn't anything left for her. She even goes on to say that she came to Westeros and nobody loves her. Not the people, not her closest advisors, not Jon. This has gone down the exact opposite of how she expected. Even after helping the North defeat the NK, the people still loved Jon, not her. She is an outsider and will always be. This was her reckoning with that realization.

I am surprised by the amount of people that don't get that, but I think this is where the season falls short. Just not enough time to let that develop like it would have in earlier seasons. The decision for the 6 episode season is really the downfall here, especially after HBO offered them 10 that could have let these things play out more.
I agree with all of the above, and although it's admittedly a stretch, I'll add one more possible reason why Dany's turn to the dark side isn't that surprising:

She was flying high above the battle (or low and fast) while letting Drogon do all the work.

Distance directly affects how easy it is to kill others. For example, bomber pilots don't typically have much trouble laying waste to to the land beneath them and killing thousands of people simply because they don't see or hear those dying beneath them.
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9:00a, 5/13/19
bobinator
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9:01a, 5/13/19
AG
The scorpion stuff was flat out stupid. Last week they can hit a moving dragon, from distance, several times.

Last week the weapon was so powerful that Dany had to just let her fleet get destroyed because she had to get Drogon out of there. And this week the counter to this powerful weapon was just... fly around and burn them all? All of a sudden they can't hit anything.

But, whatever, compared to Dany's moment of turning evil all of just the run of the mill dumb stuff (Euron washing up on the same beach where Jamie happens to be going...) doesn't really matter.
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pete_claw98
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9:01a, 5/13/19
AG
Still working on the last 5 pages, but......

It would have been awesome/cheesy at the same time if/when Jon kills Dany, Jaime could've been there and said something like, "they will call you Queenslayer now and all your pages will end up blank!"

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aTmAg
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In reply to gambochaman • 9:02a, 5/13/19
AG
gambochaman said:
says you

I thought it was magnificent
I'm certainly not alone.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 9:02a, 5/13/19
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M.C. Swag said:
Loved some of the cinematics. Incredibly brutal episode. Seeing the city burn through the eyes of the common people was really effective emotionally.

Things D&D kinda forgot about (this episode):

- Cersei, the Red Keep has fallen in the past. To your father during Robert's Rebellion.

- Jaime, you did care about the common people in King's Landing when you killed Aerys.


I think Cersei meant it had never fallen to an army. It only fell because Jaime turned traitor. Nobody had ever breached the walls.
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The Dog Lord
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In reply to gambochaman • 9:02a, 5/13/19
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gambochaman said:
HATERS GONNA HATE

THIS WAS PURE EPICNESS OF THE MOST AMAZING KIND

if you couldnt see Dany slowly losing her marbles, then you definitely were not paying attention...all of the trauma suffered throughout her life came to a boiling point yesterday. What would have made no sense is if the bells had rang and she had called off the attack...would have been very out of character


either way, she dies next week
Except she hasn't torched innocents before. She even mentioned last night that the people of Meereen freed themselves. As others have mentioned, if the people had actively resisted her, it would have made more sense for her to say "screw them" and burn the whole thing down.
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