saltydog13 said:

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Did anyone else get a Lord of the Rings vibe when podrick started singing? Reminded me of Return of the Kings when Pippen sang in front of the steward just before battle

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Around 10 pages before this one...

I think bran is the night king.

emtes said:

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This may have been touched on already.... But everyone keeps saying how Dany is selfish and only after the throne. We have known that the throne is her primary objective virtually since season 1. So why are we upset now?

And lets not forget that she chose to fight the dead alongside Jon. Rather than take Kings Landing when she is perfectly capable of doing so now.

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i think it's about her motivation to take the throne. whether she's doing it now because she wants to be in charge or whether she's still got that fire to break the wheel as she did earlier.

on a side note i went and found the dialogue from the break the wheel scene and its kinda interesting

Tyrion: When you get back to your home, who supports you?
Dany: The common people.
Tyrion: Let's be generous and assume that's going to happen. Here in Slaver's Bay, you have the support of the common people and only the common people. What was that like ruling without the rich? House Targaryen is gone. Not a single person who shares your blood is alive to support you. The Starks are gone as well. Our 2 terrible fathers saw to that. The remaining members of House Lannisters will never back you, not ever. Stannis Baratheon won't back you either. His entire claim to the throne rests on the illegitimacy of yours. That leaves the Tyrells: not impossible, not enough.
Dany: Lannister, Targaryen, Baratheon, Stark, Tyrell: They're all just spokes on a wheel. This one's on top, then that one's on top, then on and on it spins.
Tyrion: That's a beautiful dream: stopping the wheel. You're not the first person who's ever dreamt it.
Dany: I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.

the fact that she mentioned targaryen as another spoke on the wheel might now mean that she realizes that even if jon is the rightful heir, she's gotta run through him in order to really break the wheel.

chipotle said:

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I think bran is the night king.

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I have seen this theory as well but it makes my head hurt to contemplate.

I think he for sure is Bran the Builder and Bran the Destroyer though. Those aren't his namesakes they are all the same man traveling through time.

bangobango said:

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Furlock Bones said:

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OldShadeOfBlue said:

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Agree completely. I almost feel like their scene got cut as what was the point of them sitting down together in the first place?

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i thought this as well. all of it got left on the cutting room floor.

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I think pretty obvious that it will give Tyrion the opportunity to save the group at some point with some information learned and/or deduced from conversation.

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Maybe there will be a few flashbacks to that conversation? Who knows. Maybe if Bran somehow dies Tyrion will be able to use what he got from that convo to sort of fill that role about knowledge of the past.

She talks of breaking the wheel, but her only goal seems to be the Iron Throne, which is the actual wheel.

I honestly can't remember, was Lightbringer ever mentioned in the show? I know the Prince that was Promised has been mentioned throughout the series, but I can't remember Lightbringer coming up.

StringerBell said:

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emtes said:

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This may have been touched on already.... But everyone keeps saying how Dany is selfish and only after the throne. We have known that the throne is her primary objective virtually since season 1. So why are we upset now?

And lets not forget that she chose to fight the dead alongside Jon. Rather than take Kings Landing when she is perfectly capable of doing so now.

---

i think it's about her motivation to take the throne. whether she's doing it now because she wants to be in charge or whether she's still got that fire to break the wheel as she did earlier.

on a side note i went and found the dialogue from the break the wheel scene and its kinda interesting

Tyrion: When you get back to your home, who supports you?
Dany: The common people.
Tyrion: Let's be generous and assume that's going to happen. Here in Slaver's Bay, you have the support of the common people and only the common people. What was that like ruling without the rich? House Targaryen is gone. Not a single person who shares your blood is alive to support you. The Starks are gone as well. Our 2 terrible fathers saw to that. The remaining members of House Lannisters will never back you, not ever. Stannis Baratheon won't back you either. His entire claim to the throne rests on the illegitimacy of yours. That leaves the Tyrells: not impossible, not enough.
Dany: Lannister, Targaryen, Baratheon, Stark, Tyrell: They're all just spokes on a wheel. This one's on top, then that one's on top, then on and on it spins.
Tyrion: That's a beautiful dream: stopping the wheel. You're not the first person who's ever dreamt it.
Dany: I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.

the fact that she mentioned targaryen as another spoke on the wheel might now mean that she realizes that even if jon is the rightful heir, she's gotta run through him in order to really break the wheel.

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If Dany sits on the throne by herself she's not breaking the wheel. She becomes no different than the other cogs that make up the wheel. To truly break the wheel something else must happen. I think Danny's whole character arc relies on her realizing her place isn't on the throne, but somehow apart of it. What that is, I don't know.

Did I miss a meeting between Jorah and Lyanna Mormont last week? In Ep 2 she evidently has forgiven him for shaming their house but I dont recall them having their reconciliation moment.

Was it last week and I missed it?

redline248 said:

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saltydog13 said:

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Did anyone else get a Lord of the Rings vibe when podrick started singing? Reminded me of Return of the Kings when Pippen sang in front of the steward just before battle

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Only about 15 other people in this thread before you

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Dammit. I didn't watch until this morning and didn't want to open this thread and see spoilers

wangus12 said:

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Or it could be that a piece of Valyrian Steel should be in the hands of someone who can actually wield a sword. Sam said he couldn't hold it upright. Doesn't make any sense for one of the special swords to sit on the sidelines and Jorah has a relationship with Sam. He's a natural candidate to give it too.

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But why have Heartsbane even in the show at all? That's not a point that has been reached in the books, so it's not like they're just following along with what is already written down.

There are a lot of other Valyrian swords that they could have randomly chosen to include in this story that they've never mention or messed with, so why spend so much time on this one? I think it is because the sword is going to become Lightbringer and they've had to set up it being Jorah (or somebody's hands) when that happens.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Belton Ag said:

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I honestly can't remember, was Lightbringer ever mentioned in the show? I know the Prince that was Promised has been mentioned throughout the series, but I can't remember Lightbringer coming up.

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First scene we ever see Melisandre in, on the beach of Dragonstone.

Stannis pulls out the flaming sword.

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I think she even calls it Lightbringer at some point. Or maybe the old blind Targ does when he asks Stannis to let him "see" it. I don't think it's been mentioned since before Stannis died, though.

Belton Ag said:

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I honestly can't remember, was Lightbringer ever mentioned in the show? I know the Prince that was Promised has been mentioned throughout the series, but I can't remember Lightbringer coming up.

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Several times with Melisdandre. Berric's sword as well, I believe.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Belton Ag said:

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I honestly can't remember, was Lightbringer ever mentioned in the show? I know the Prince that was Promised has been mentioned throughout the series, but I can't remember Lightbringer coming up.

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First scene we ever see Melisandre in, on the beach of Dragonstone.

Stannis pulls out the flaming sword.

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Yeah, yeah. I had forgotten that.

Still, that was what, one line from season 2 explaining Lightbringer?

Will they harken back to that one line from one scene now as a central plot point?

wangus12 said:

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Sarduakar said:

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Kill Switch said:

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There is only one way Deny will accept Jon is a Targarion. He has to prove he is Dragon born. She has to see him burn and come out alive on the other side.

Only then will she accept his birthright.

that is my theory.

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Jon is a song of "Fire and Ice" and can be burned by the "normal" dragon, just like other Targs as stated here. But since Jon is a Targ and a Stark he can withstand being burned by Viscerion, Ice Dragon. This is what proves it to Dany, but that is probably in the end battle not this one.

I also think the Bran Tyrion discussionmatters more to something later. Ie Bran said something in passing that allows Tyrion understand and defeat the NK. But again I think this happens in the later battle.

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I thought about that for Jon as well. It'd definitely be a stretch, but pretty awesome to see him walk through the blue flames

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Are all Targaryen's supposed to be impervious to flame? At least 2 of them we know of including Duncan Targaryen died in a fire.

bangobango said:

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Belton Ag said:

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I honestly can't remember, was Lightbringer ever mentioned in the show? I know the Prince that was Promised has been mentioned throughout the series, but I can't remember Lightbringer coming up.

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Several times with Melisdandre. Berric's sword as well, I believe.

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Spillner reminded me of that scene with Stannis, but I'm trying to remember her talking about it again. I just can't recall it being mentioned several times.

Game of Thrones Wiki only talks about it being Stannis' sword from the beach.

So what are everyone's top 4-5 picks for who will be the Prince Who Was Promised?

Mine:
1. Jon Snow (50%)
2. Jaime Lannister (20%)
3. Jorah (15%)
4. Danaerys (14%)
5. Sam (1%)

Figured I'd throw in a dark-horse pick.

Nm

redline248 said:

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OldShadeOfBlue said:

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StringerBell said:

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emtes said:

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This may have been touched on already.... But everyone keeps saying how Dany is selfish and only after the throne. We have known that the throne is her primary objective virtually since season 1. So why are we upset now?

And lets not forget that she chose to fight the dead alongside Jon. Rather than take Kings Landing when she is perfectly capable of doing so now.

---

i think it's about her motivation to take the throne. whether she's doing it now because she wants to be in charge or whether she's still got that fire to break the wheel as she did earlier.

on a side note i went and found the dialogue from the break the wheel scene and its kinda interesting

Tyrion: When you get back to your home, who supports you?
Dany: The common people.
Tyrion: Let's be generous and assume that's going to happen. Here in Slaver's Bay, you have the support of the common people and only the common people. What was that like ruling without the rich? House Targaryen is gone. Not a single person who shares your blood is alive to support you. The Starks are gone as well. Our 2 terrible fathers saw to that. The remaining members of House Lannisters will never back you, not ever. Stannis Baratheon won't back you either. His entire claim to the throne rests on the illegitimacy of yours. That leaves the Tyrells: not impossible, not enough.
Dany: Lannister, Targaryen, Baratheon, Stark, Tyrell: They're all just spokes on a wheel. This one's on top, then that one's on top, then on and on it spins.
Tyrion: That's a beautiful dream: stopping the wheel. You're not the first person who's ever dreamt it.
Dany: I'm not going to stop the wheel. I'm going to break the wheel.

the fact that she mentioned targaryen as another spoke on the wheel might now mean that she realizes that even if jon is the rightful heir, she's gotta run through him in order to really break the wheel.

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If Dany sits on the throne by herself she's not breaking the wheel. She becomes no different than the other cogs that make up the wheel. To truly break the wheel something else must happen. I think Danny's whole character arc relies on her realizing her place isn't on the throne, but somehow apart of it. What that is, I don't know.

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The wheel could be symbolic of the 7 kingdoms. Breaking it could be her, as queen, breaking the kingdoms apart for each recon to be independent.

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Very good point

Another reason I think the dead win at Winterfell is the intro.
It is a completely new sequence this season, focusing on the army of the dead traveling from the Wall. We track their movement with icy blue tiles heading towards their next target. I can't believe they would include that point of view only to have it be meaningless so quickly.

redline248 said:

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bangobango said:

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wangus12 said:

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Or it could be that a piece of Valyrian Steel should be in the hands of someone who can actually wield a sword. Sam said he couldn't hold it upright. Doesn't make any sense for one of the special swords to sit on the sidelines and Jorah has a relationship with Sam. He's a natural candidate to give it too.

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But why have Heartsbane even in the show at all? That's not a point that has been reached in the books, so it's not like they're just following along with what is already written down.

There are a lot of other Valyrian swords that they could have randomly chosen to include in this story that they've never mention or messed with, so why spend so much time on this one? I think it is because the sword is going to become Lightbringer and they've had to set up it being Jorah (or somebody's hands) when that happens.

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Bc Sam is a major character from a somewhat major house, and they needed more than Longclaw and the 2 Lannister swords for this battle?

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That is the thing, though, they really don't need any Valyrian swords at this point because of all the dragon glass.

Who knows, you may be right, but I find it odd that they've spent this much time on Heartsbane. The other swords there were plot reasons to include them (plus they were still going off book source material). I've thought from the beginning that Sam stealing that sword stuck out like a soar thumb b/c it really seemed out of character for him. Just everything involving Heartsbane, in my opinion, has reeked of the writers needing to get the object from point A to point B and not really being something that happened or grew organically out of the character motivations and how they would actually act.

Sam stealing it didn't ring true to me and Sam giving it Jorah of all people didn't ring true to me.

redbaron788 said:

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Another reason I think the dead win at Winterfell is the intro.
It is a completely new sequence this season, focusing on the army of the dead traveling from the Wall. We track their movement with icy blue tiles heading towards their next target. I can't believe they would include that point of view only to have it be meaningless so quickly.

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I agree. I think dead win and keep going south. Some of main cast escapes and regroups to fight one final battle which includes Cersi and Gold company.