Sarduakar said:

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aTmAg said:

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Wow.. Not even Caesar got the clock to start over. He got his own month though.

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Caesar DID restart the clock on what the Romans believed. Realize that A.D. was reset AFTER the fact, ie several hundred years into the Middle Ages when most of Europe was Christianized and they wanted a more common starting point for all nations. That redo was done on the Julian calendar ( Julius Caeser) and thus is what then led to the Gregorian calendar ( 1500 ish )being better but and them redoing it again ( but this was only days off. That is why Eastern Orthodox Christmas is different than Catholic.

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Oops. I was wasn't thinking of it that way. To me, it's one thing to dictate it yourself, it's another for people in the future to pick you as the the reason to start it at zero. Obviously, we consider Jesus is more worthy of that than Julius Caesar.

I assume the Targaryen's dictated the calendar to start over?

The question is related to WHEN did Ned have the affair that would have led to Jon. Before he married Cat or after? I guess everyone just assumed after, while he was gone. but you would have know depending on how old each was, and since as you said Ned being an honorable man didn't bed Cat before the wedding. Why would we have accepted the child, but not the mother or the "marriage" he was an honarable man. I guess my point is that by reading the actions of Ned outside of Jon and the actions of Robb based on how he dealt with his new wife. The honorable thing to do is marry her.

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I assume the Targaryen's dictated the calendar to start over?

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Yes, I believe so.

This is the kind of discussion I come here for.

Considering the made up mother was from Dorne it would, have to have been after marrying Cat. He was in the north for a long while before he left for the war. I'm not sure he had ever been to Dorne before - he was raised part of the time long with Robert in The Vale by Jon Arryn. Still a long way from Dorne. He had been to KL before but I'm not aware of him ever travelling to Dorne before the Rebellion.

Now the logistical problem of Jon being conceived and born in a year from the time he left and actually be his ******* son - well that's a bit of a problem. But this is like medieval times and the child certainly could have been premature like say just 35 weeks along instead of 42 saves you almost 2 months time).

I'm a little confused on why this discussion is taking place. I thought Jon wasn't Ned's kid? Why are we discussing Ned's honor or lack thereof regarding the timing of an affair that didn't happen?

aTmAg said:

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I'm a little confused on why this discussion is taking place. I thought Jon wasn't Ned's kid? Why are we discussing Ned's honor or lack of it about when he would have or wouldn't have conceived Jon (if he actually had done so)?

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He's trying to ask whether it even makes sense that Eddard was the father of Jon Snow in the first place - an honorable man would have just married the mother. But the issue is of course he was already married. Then the relative ages of the two comes into some question - but can be swept away by the simple fact that pregnancies vary in length and GOT dates are non specific.

We don't know if Robb was 2 weeks old when Ned returned or 2 months.... We also don't know if Ned took 2 months to get back there or took the Concorde. And lastly we do not know if Jon was carried to full term anyway considering she died in childbirth.

So yes I think the cover story of him being the father was conceivable. And he was already married so that's why he would not have married the "mother" of Jon.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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I'm a little confused on why this discussion is taking place. I thought Jon wasn't Ned's kid? Why are we discussing Ned's honor or lack of it about when he would have or wouldn't have conceived Jon (if he actually had done so)?

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He's trying to ask whether it even makes sense that Eddard was the father of Jon Snow in the first place - an honorable man would have just married the mother. But the issue is of course he was already married. Then the relative ages of the two comes into some question - but can be swept away by the simple fact that pregnancies vary in length and GOT dates are non specific.

We don't know if Robb was 2 weeks old when Ned returned or 2 months.... We also don't know if Ned took 2 months to get back there or took the Concorde. And lastly we do not know if Jon was carried to full term anyway considering she died in childbirth.

So yes I think the cover story of him being the father was conceivable. And he was already married so that's why he would not have married the "mother" of Jon.

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Though fictional, Catelyn is not stupid. One would think she would have figured it out, if the dates were iffy.

Ned really would not ever talk about it - also he was the head of the house.

She didn't have much choice in the matter. And she wasn't going to get answers.

Also it might be difficult to tell a 2-5 month old apart... I know I never can. He could have said he was younger than he was.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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Ned really would not ever talk about it - also he was the head of the house.

She didn't have much choice in the matter. And she wasn't going to get answers.

Also it might be difficult to tell a 2-5 month old apart... I know I never can. He could have said he was younger than he was.

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I forgot why he did that (other than the plot twist). I'm still early in my re-watch.

redline248 said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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That is not on Cat, that's on Littlefinger. She was manipulated.

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Bullshhhh. Yes he convinced her that the dagger was Tyrion's, but she acted irrationally, knowing full well the Lannisters would retaliate.

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She was under the impression they tried to murder her child. She would've been a complete idiot to NOT capture him, given the opportunity.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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redline248 said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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That is not on Cat, that's on Littlefinger. She was manipulated.

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Bullshhhh. Yes he convinced her that the dagger was Tyrion's, but she acted irrationally, knowing full well the Lannisters would retaliate.

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She was under the impression they tried to murder her child. She would've been a complete idiot to NOT capture him, given the opportunity.

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That trial was a bit of a sham though.

As to how believable it was for Ned to have a b.stard child...the simplest explanation is that no one believed Ned (or anyone) was that honorable.

You're forgetting one major piece of info.

Robert F'n Baratheon was still the king when she took Tyrion prisoner. Her husband's best friend.

No one was foresaw fat Bobby getting drunk and gored by a boar. Kind of changed things.

redline248 said:

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As to how believable it was for Ned to have a b.stard child...the simplest explanation is that no one believed Ned (or anyone) was that honorable.

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It's indicated pretty strongly that some people loved the idea that old honorable Ned Stark had a b.stard. Even Robert was ribbing him wanting to know about it, wasn't he?

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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The Stark&Targaryen winter collection available only at Target.

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#TargetBaeChallenge

The Lannisters controlled King's Landing. Worse idea.

Agree to disagree.

Good exhaustive list and doesn't even include Yara who is a bad ass pirate and has wonderful taste in women.

Urban Ag said:

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Stive said:

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I've gone 7 years, 9 months, and 25 days of watching this show, reading the Texags threads, laughing at memes.....everything. And never once...in all that time.....did I think about or consider the "pro-feminine" slant that HBO/Martin/B&W are presenting.

ZERO surprise that aTmAg is the one that brings this up.

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Whether you like, don't like it, or are indifferent, how could anyone not notice it?

The two most powerful individuals in the series, as it stands now, are Dany and Cersei.
Dany yes, but I'm not sure Cersei is the 2nd most powerful. As the reigning queen somewhat, but their true power has taken quite a hit.

The most prominent assassin in Westeros is Arya. She literally took out the entire Frey family without breaking a sweat.
To be fair, she is the only one we know of in Westeros. They aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

Sansa essentially rules the North.
False. Jon does (if anything you can Dany does now).

Olenna Tyrell ran House Tyrell regardless of who actually had the title. Margery Tyrell led two Baratheon kings around by the nose.
Those guys sucked though. Robert held the power when he was alive. Other houses show strong males.

The Sand Snakes overthrew House Martel and took command of the entire Kingdom of Dorne.
This is probably the best arguement since they turned Dorne into a ****hole in the show. In the books it has one of the smartest players (Doran) and one of the best fighters in history. Their house in general is formidable in terms of both males and females.

Lysa Arryn ruled the Veil until LF murdered her.
She was a crazy psycho though, so that's not a credit to women. Her husband was good, but we just don't see him.

Brienne is one of the biggest bad asses in the realm.
I see no issue with her character. They constantly point out how she is the exception. As others have mentioned, it's not unthinkable that there will be outliers like her.

Melisandre' influenced literally every decision that Stannis made.
Stannis was still the king though and did go against her at times.

House Mormont is commanded by a 10 year old girl.
No arguement here. She is awesome.

The entire series, both books and tv, is a collection of powerful men making critical mistakes and women persevering and coming out on top (for the most part). It's absolutely a theme in play. I don't care either but come on man....
It makes sense though that the men would be in positions to make decisions and be the most at risk for paying the price if they don't go well. The rise of women if you want to call it that is potentially just a by-product of the wars. It's also contributed to how male *******s, dwarves, lowborns, etc. have a chance to rise to power.

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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ass pirate

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The Dog Lord said:

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Urban Ag said:

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Stive said:

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I've gone 7 years, 9 months, and 25 days of watching this show, reading the Texags threads, laughing at memes.....everything. And never once...in all that time.....did I think about or consider the "pro-feminine" slant that HBO/Martin/B&W are presenting.

ZERO surprise that aTmAg is the one that brings this up.

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Whether you like, don't like it, or are indifferent, how could anyone not notice it?

The two most powerful individuals in the series, as it stands now, are Dany and Cersei.
Dany yes, but I'm not sure Cersei is the 2nd most powerful. As the reigning queen somewhat, but their true power has taken quite a hit.

The most prominent assassin in Westeros is Arya. She literally took out the entire Frey family without breaking a sweat.
To be fair, she is the only one we know of in Westeros. They aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

Sansa essentially rules the North.
False. Jon does (if anything you can Dany does now).

Olenna Tyrell ran House Tyrell regardless of who actually had the title. Margery Tyrell led two Baratheon kings around by the nose.
Those guys sucked though. Robert held the power when he was alive. Other houses show strong males.

The Sand Snakes overthrew House Martel and took command of the entire Kingdom of Dorne.
This is probably the best arguement since they turned Dorne into a ****hole in the show. In the books it has one of the smartest players (Doran) and one of the best fighters in history. Their house in general is formidable in terms of both males and females.

Lysa Arryn ruled the Veil until LF murdered her.
She was a crazy psycho though, so that's not a credit to women. Her husband was good, but we just don't see him.

Brienne is one of the biggest bad asses in the realm.
I see no issue with her character. They constantly point out how she is the exception. As others have mentioned, it's not unthinkable that there will be outliers like her.

Melisandre' influenced literally every decision that Stannis made.
Stannis was still the king though and did go against her at times.

House Mormont is commanded by a 10 year old girl.
No arguement here. She is awesome.

The entire series, both books and tv, is a collection of powerful men making critical mistakes and women persevering and coming out on top (for the most part). It's absolutely a theme in play. I don't care either but come on man....
It makes sense though that the men would be in positions to make decisions and be the most at risk for paying the price if they don't go well. The rise of women if you want to call it that is potentially just a by-product of the wars. It's also contributed to how male *******s, dwarves, lowborns, etc. have a chance to rise to power.

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Don't forget Yara / Asha showing contempt for her weak brother Theon, after she broke in and rescued him. And her trying to one up every dude she comes in contact with.

Or Ygrette leading Jon around by the nose.

But there is also:

Cersei destroying her house (not done yet, but if it survives, it will be because of Tyrion/Jaime)

The Sand Snakes destroying their house.

Cat creating a mess with Tyrion that led to raised tensions in King's Landing between Ned and the Lannisters.

Lysa being LF's pawn in setting all of this off.

Melisandre leading Stannis to destruction.

Dany being fooled by the "healer" who essentially killed Drogo.

Euron easily besting Yara.

Sansa being everyone's pawn for most of the show.

Y'all about to talk about cave diving?

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"Cersei hated the name 'Ser Pounce' so much she could not allow him to survive," David Benioff told Entertainment Weekly. "So she came up with her most diabolical [execution]. Ser Pounce's death was so horrible we couldn't even put it on the air."

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lmao

So it's back this week right?

Question for all you GoT followers and degenerate gamblers......What do you think the Vegas odds would be on who ends up on the Iron Thorn at the end of season 8?

Cersi

Dany

Jon Snow

Nobody

Field

that's already out there.... posted several pages back.

https://www.oddsshark.com/entertainment/game-thrones-prop-odds-bet-who-will-be-ruling-westeros

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Daenerys Targaryen (2:1)
Jon Snow (2:1)
Bran Stark (3.5:1)
The Night King (10:1)
Tyrion Lannister (12.5:1)
Cersei Lannister (15:1)
Jaime Lannister (15:1)
Sansa Stark (25:1)
Arya Stark (40:1)
Euron Greyjoy (50:1)
Varys (75:1)
Gendry (75:1)
Samwell Tarly (75:1)

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