Philip J Fry said:

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wesag said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Addict does not mean you're a moron. Hope you don't have a kid who is an addict. The internet does make you sound tough though. I'll give you that.

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I would counter that trying cocaine once would make you a moron. Getting addicted to pain killers is something else, but getting hooked on hard drugs began with a conscience stupid decision.

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So.. use cocaine, you're a moron.. what about alcohol? It can be abused, and the user can become addicted.. Just the same as someone can use cocaine and not have any addiction problems. I suppose you have a pretty quantitative measurement of which substances have too high of a % of addiction problems for you to know which one makes you a moron for trying?

Silly statement. Just because a pain killer is prescribed, doesn't mean you aren't aware of the addiction side effects. With your logic, you're a moron for taking a pain killer. You know what can happen, why risk it?

Excellent point. I've been prescribed painkillers before and they've done nothing for me, in terms of euphoric reaction. Alcohol, however, is a whole different story. It didn't become a problem until my mid 30s. I had a job I hated and, next thing I knew, I was getting plastered every night. Took me five years to admit I had a problem and get help.

To those who don't get it, it is NOT just a matter of will power. I know; I was in that camp. But, that's a complete lie. Some of us have brains prewired for addiction. Not only that, addicts' brains are prewired for addiction to different substances.

I've smoked pot a total of three times in my life. I never went back because I just didn't see the big deal. I've smoked cigarettes off and on my whole life. At most, I was at a pack a day in my 20s. It was more of a social thing. But, alcohol? Once it got ahold of me, I didn't WANT to let it go. I lost a lot, but, thankfully, not everything.

Look, if you aren't an addict, do yourself two favors: 1) quit assuming you know anything about addiction and 2) get down on your knees and thank whatever god you serve that you aren't an addict.

Philip J Fry said:

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wesag said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Addict does not mean you're a moron. Hope you don't have a kid who is an addict. The internet does make you sound tough though. I'll give you that.

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I would counter that trying cocaine once would make you a moron. Getting addicted to pain killers is something else, but getting hooked on hard drugs began with a conscience stupid decision.

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Trying cocaine is a bad decision, but it doesn't make one a moron. By that logic, we're all morons (which I guess I would agree with). Some bad decisions are more consequential than others. When driving home from A&M during my Junior year, on 4 hours of sleep, I dozed in and out of sleep on Hwy 6 going 70 mph. Fortunately, I didn't kill myself, or God forbid, somebody else. Thank God my bad decision didn't have any consequences.

This whole "what a moron" reaction to people who die of addiction is way too simplistic and shallow.

wesag said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Addict does not mean you're a moron. Hope you don't have a kid who is an addict. The internet does make you sound tough though. I'll give you that.

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No, being an addict does indeed reveal one to have been a moron at some point. Only a buffoon goes down that path to start with. You have to be crazy to try heroin, and you have to actively work at it to get addicted to painkillers.

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Why are these things always made public?

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FOIA requests and other state law that would mandate these reporting requirements. While HIPAA would protect some information, there are many exceptions listed. One of those is:

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Decedents. Covered entities may disclose protected health information to funeral directors as needed, and to coroners or medical examiners to identify a deceased person, determine the cause of death, and perform other functions authorized by law.35

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Once it's in the hands of the medical examiner, there is a valid reason in making this information public as it relates to public health and epidemiological study. It's just with celebrities the public has a morbid curiosity.

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his whole "what a moron" reaction to people who die of addiction is way too simplistic and shallow

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When its a lethal mix of heroin, cocaine, and X, I'm pretty confident in labelling that a moronic combination even for an addict.

This is why you should just stick to weed. Cocaine has diminishing returns, heroin involves needles (gross, AIDS), shrooms you're not in control of your body, and meth/crack are for poor & dumb people.

Cromagnum said:

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wesag said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Addict does not mean you're a moron. Hope you don't have a kid who is an addict. The internet does make you sound tough though. I'll give you that.

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No, being an addict does indeed reveal one to have been a moron at some point. Only a buffoon goes down that path to start with. You have to be crazy to try heroin, and you have to actively work at it to get addicted to painkillers.

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No, you don't have to actively work to get addicted to painkillers. The Army would give me a large bottle of the strongest percocet, muscle relaxers, gabapentin, ambien, and 3 anti-depressants. That was what I was prescribed. You don't actively seek addiction. The pain pills make you feel better, so you take more at the slightest hint of pain. Then in no time, you're hooked. When you add other drugs into it, like they pumped me full of, that just makes it so much easier. It's not a matter of actively working at it. It's a matter of addressing your pain until you reach the point your body has developed a chemical dependence on the substance.

Fonzie Scheme said:

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Excellent point. I've been prescribed painkillers before and they've done nothing for me, in terms of euphoric reaction. Alcohol, however, is a whole different story. It didn't become a problem until my mid 30s. I had a job I hated and, next thing I knew, I was getting plastered every night. Took me five years to admit I had a problem and get help.

To those who don't get it, it is NOT just a matter of will power. I know; I was in that camp. But, that's a complete lie. Some of us have brains prewired for addiction. Not only that, addicts' brains are prewired for addiction to different substances.

I've smoked pot a total of three times in my life. I never went back because I just didn't see the big deal. I've smoked cigarettes off and on my whole life. At most, I was at a pack a day in my 20s. It was more of a social thing. But, alcohol? Once it got ahold of me, I didn't WANT to let it go. I lost a lot, but, thankfully, not everything.

Look, if you aren't an addict, do yourself two favors: 1) quit assuming you know anything about addiction and 2) get down on your knees and thank whatever god you serve that you aren't an addict.

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Excellent post.

With regards to the bolded portion at top...I was always the same...with any broken bone I would pop an extra vicodin or two when trying to get pain relief and never got any type of crazy good feeling. However, once I found out my wife was abusing Oxy, I decided to take one of her pills to see what type of stuff we were talking (that might make me a moron but I can't even describe the emotions I was feeling at the time). I am 6'3" 220lbs and a 30 mg (they go for $30 each on the street) made me feel AMAZING, then like crap for a few minutes, then AMAZING again. I felt really really good and didn't want it to end. I am blessed to have never had any problems with drug addiction, although I have tried a handful of them. But I can definitely see how just about anyone could get hooked on that stuff if they tried it a handful of times or so. Someone prone to opiate addiction? Forget about it...it would probably call your name for the rest of your life.

It's no wonder countless people (including many very smart and successful people) made the switch to heroin when they Feds upped the regulations on Oxy etc. After trying the stuff, I frankly can't believe it would be legally prescribed to anyone who didn't have a terminal illness of some sort.

Cromagnum said:

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wesag said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Addict does not mean you're a moron. Hope you don't have a kid who is an addict. The internet does make you sound tough though. I'll give you that.

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No, being an addict does indeed reveal one to have been a moron at some point. Only a buffoon goes down that path to start with. You have to be crazy to try heroin, and you have to actively work at it to get addicted to painkillers.

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lol

I used to think somewhat like this...although not to this extreme. I pray that you are never confronted with the harsh reality that so many other undeserving people are.

A person with a hardwired proclivity for opiates may start with a legal prescription or two for legitimate pain or injury. To say you have to actively work at it or TRY to get addicted to opiates is probably the most ignorant thing I have seen in all of Texags. I am not trying to be rude but I am amazed at this level of ignorance.

I will tell you this as well...I agree that heroin has a "crazy" stigma. Someone who says "man, I wan't to party tonight, let's try some heroin" may have a few screws lose. But I can tell you this...to a crazy person, a stupid person, or to a highly intelligent, responsible and successful person who is addicted to opiate painkillers and has their source dry up...heroin does not seem crazy at all. In fact, your mind and every fiber in your body literally tells you that you NEED it in order to survive. And in some cases, this is true...you can actually die from quitting opiates cold turkey.

pimplepopper said:

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Carrie Fisher's autopsy results revealed that she had cocaine, methadone, heroine, and ecstasy in her system. She was literally flying high when she died on the plane.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-carrie-fisher-autopsy-report-20170619-story.html

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I had no idea she died on a plane.

Tanya 93 said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Do you understand addiction?

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I understand that most of us were told what drugs do to you. If you try them and get addicted you deserve no sympathy.

Cromagnum said:

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wesag said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Addict does not mean you're a moron. Hope you don't have a kid who is an addict. The internet does make you sound tough though. I'll give you that.

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No, being an addict does indeed reveal one to have been a moron at some point. Only a buffoon goes down that path to start with. You have to be crazy to try heroin, and you have to actively work at it to get addicted to painkillers.

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You should probably stop posting. Because you post like a moron who has no idea of human nature or addiction.

Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Do you understand addiction?

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I understand that most of us were told what drugs do to you. If you try them and get addicted you deserve no sympathy.

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So, no, you don't understand addiction.

Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Do you understand addiction?

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I understand that most of us were told what drugs do to you. If you try them and get addicted you deserve no sympathy.

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And yeah your self esteem must be pretty low to post something like that.

NoahAg said:

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I had no idea she died on a plane.

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With that concoction in her system do you think she saw Snakes?


I know, too soon maybe, but she was one to use comedy to cover her life history.

You're a moron.

Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Do you understand addiction?

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I understand that most of us were told what drugs do to you. If you try them and get addicted you deserve no sympathy.

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So you've never tried alcohol? Not once?

Ever had a doctor write you a prescription for pain relief? Anxiety? Anything?

Anyone addicted to heroin or meth is a moron.

Wycliffe_03 said:

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Cromagnum said:

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wesag said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Addict does not mean you're a moron. Hope you don't have a kid who is an addict. The internet does make you sound tough though. I'll give you that.

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No, being an addict does indeed reveal one to have been a moron at some point. Only a buffoon goes down that path to start with. You have to be crazy to try heroin, and you have to actively work at it to get addicted to painkillers.

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lol

I used to think somewhat like this...although not to this extreme. I pray that you are never confronted with the harsh reality that so many other undeserving people are.

A person with a hardwired proclivity for opiates may start with a legal prescription or two for legitimate pain or injury. To say you have to actively work at it or TRY to get addicted to opiates is probably the most ignorant thing I have seen in all of Texags. I am not trying to be rude but I am amazed at this level of ignorance.

I will tell you this as well...I agree that heroin has a "crazy" stigma. Someone who says "man, I wan't to party tonight, let's try some heroin" may have a few screws lose. But I can tell you this...to a crazy person, a stupid person, or to a highly intelligent, responsible and successful person who is addicted to opiate painkillers and has their source dry up...heroin does not seem crazy at all. In fact, your mind and every fiber in your body literally tells you that you NEED it in order to survive. And in some cases, this is true...you can actually die from quitting opiates cold turkey.

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This is exactly why I have stopped prescribing euphoria inducing narcotics like oxy, or dilaudid. I've seen the aftermath of what started as well intentioned physicians looking to keep their patient's pain under control that subsequently turned into life altering addiction problems. Opiate overdoses have been skyrocketing over the last decade. From 2000 to 2014 there was a 200% increase in opiate related deaths. And a large percentage of those deaths aren't just heroin. Also, the majority of chronic heroin users for their start with prescription pain meds.

People worry about guns killing people, but opiates/opioids are killing significantly more people in our country. And it's not just the lower socioeconomic portion of our society, but white collar workers, as well. A large percentage of the time, these people don't even realize they are addicted. They come in after accidental overdoses or crashing their cars after being strung out on roxy's. You tell them they need to cut back on their pain killers they are being prescribed and they yell and scream at you for daring to imply they have an addiction problem, and that the medications were "legally prescribed" to them. I have on more than one occasion refused to give specific euphoria inducing medications (drugs these people were asking for by name) and instead offered reasonable alternatives only to be cussed at or had someone write a formal complaint against me. Even people that aren't currently taking prescription pain meds have the expectation that when they come to the ER that they are going to receive opiate/opioid pain meds while there, and a little something for the road, as well, even if they have no ailment that warrants it. They expect to be completely pain free, otherwise you are a terrible doctor that doesn't care about them. It takes all of my effort not to give in to their demands, and explain to them why I don't prescribe opiates to everyone who walks into the ER for pain related complaints.

Part of the responsibility for this opiate epidemic falls on us physicians, especially the pill mills and surgeons giving their patients a month worth of oxy's for a simple cholecystectomy. It also falls on us doctors caving in to fill a weeks worth of pain meds for someone that clearly does not need it. An even larger portion of blame lies on the pharmaceutical companies that fed consumers and physicians lies about the safety and lack of addictive potential of the drugs they were pushing. There is a reason that the U.S. consumes 90% of the world's prescription pain med supply, and it is not because we as a population are in more pain than everyone else.

...sorry for the rant, but I saw a subject I'm passionate about and wanted to give my 2 cents.

Thanks Dr. Excellent and insightful post. Another thing that contributes to these deaths is the fact that so many users go to rehab or find a way to quit for a few weeks/months and then break down and try to pick up where they left off, or close to it, when in fact their tolerance has decreased significantly. What used to give them just a solid maintenance fix is now deadly.

A few months ago my wife was dumped curb side at Ben Taub by a "friend" (fellow opiate user she met in rehab) after over dosing in this manner. She damn near died but thank God it became a rock bottom wake up call that she desperately needed. That drive to the hospital after frantically searching certain areas of Houston looking for her was agonizing and it's a mini miracle I didn't hurt myself or someone else as I was out of my mind and driving like a maniac.

This is a lifelong A student and neurobiology major from t.u. who is a doctor of pharmacy. Smartest and hardest working and most charitable woman I have ever known. Beautiful too (sorry no rule #1). She has had some crazy stuff happen to her though that I would not wish on anyone...not an excuse at all...but in reality, it contributed to some depression and dark memories that she learned could be numbed by the euphoria of opiates. When you take Oxy away from an addict, they will do anything opiate based that they can get their hands on as their bodies and minds convince them they need it to survive. In some cases they do as withdrawals can be deadly. Heroin may have sounded bat chit insane to them 1-2 years before, but after having their oxy supply cut off, they will do almost anything for it. Sleeping next to someone going through hardcore opiate withdrawal after trying to quit cold turkey is an awful experience.

Sorry for the long disorganized diatribe, just wanted to put a little bit of our story out there in hopes that it opens some eyes. If people think my wife is a moron/dumbass/whatever, that is fine because I know the truth. I used to think that way when I was completely naive to addiction. I sincerely pray that these people learn about addiction without ever having to deal with it themselves or through a loved one.

Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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My wife's number one rule for me:

"Don't be a dick."

What some people don't understand here is that prescription drugs are the most abused by a long margin. You start with just wanting the pain gone. Either physical or emotional. A couple of weeks later you take them out of habit. Not much longer before you can't live without them. You're addicted.

Also, people don't start with heroin and meth. They start with other things until the high isn't high enough. Possibly prescriptions to start, and then something just a little better. And a little better. And a little better...

This also extends to other things. Gambling, compulsive buying, lying. All addicting.

RetiredAg said:

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Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Do you understand addiction?

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I understand that most of us were told what drugs do to you. If you try them and get addicted you deserve no sympathy.

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So, no, you don't understand addiction.

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I understand excuse making

What condition did CF have that she became addicted to pain killers and graduated to hardcore stuff? Or did she just like to party?

chipotle said:

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What condition did CF have that she became addicted to pain killers and graduated to hardcore stuff? Or did she just like to party?

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This is an unfair comparison. She got addicted in the '70s. Drugs were a social norm, and the consequences were not fully known.

That said, she was fighting mental illness and depression her entire life with drugs instead of getting help.

Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Do you understand addiction?

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I understand that most of us were told what drugs do to you. If you try them and get addicted you deserve no sympathy.

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So, no, you don't understand addiction.

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I understand excuse making

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I don't doubt that. That doesn't mean you understand addiction though.

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you have to actively work at it to get addicted to painkillers.

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This is one of the most ignorant things I have seen on this site and I read the politics board

RetiredAg said:

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Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Bayside Tiger Ag said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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Hulla Baller said:

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Moron

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Do you understand addiction?

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I understand that most of us were told what drugs do to you. If you try them and get addicted you deserve no sympathy.

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So, no, you don't understand addiction.

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I understand excuse making

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I don't doubt that. That doesn't mean you understand addiction though.

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I understand the chemical dependency and psychological aspects more than you would know. I also know that it all begins with an initial choice. Some people, very few, manage to become addicted from initially innocent means (Rx painkillers, coping with PTSD, etc). However, for most it simply is because the ignored multiple warnings of hardcore drugs and what they do. I feel no sorrow or sympathy for these morons.

Play stupid games...

chipotle said:

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What condition did CF have that she became addicted to pain killers and graduated to hardcore stuff? Or did she just like to party?

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It was the 70's and she was the daughter of Hollywood royalty. She was partying when she hit puberty.

Oh I see. It was the 70s. It's ok then.

I dated a bipolar chick for a while. It was great while she had her meds in check but holy ****, once she got off.... Bipolar is a nightmare to deal with now. I can't even imagine what it would have been like in the 70s.

chipotle said:

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Oh I see. It was the 70s. It's ok then.

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Yep. We had zero idea that injecting or ingesting toxic chemicals into your body was harmful back then.

I'm amazed she reached the age she did.

Doesn't it matter who the addict is too? I mean Carrie Fisher, Princess Leilia, Sad! Poor girl! But if it is someone we dislike, say Rush Limbaugh, What an idiot!!!