JuliusCaesarAggie said:
Best live album would just be a vote for second place. First place is already locked up:
Are men not allowed to vote on that one?
Greatest Debut Album - Final Round Voting
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Last: 7 yr ago by EllisCoAg
Are men not allowed to vote on that one?
This album ****s all over Frampton
Another brilliant live album
Live at Budokan - Cheap Trick
Zombie Jon Snow said:
^^^^^brings to mind another vote......
BEST ALBUM COVER ART
In this case I'm not sure.....except Pearl Jam is dead last among these four. Three of those are iconic covers.
PS - I haven't voted yet.....gonna take me a while to decide. Those were my Top Four. Ugh.
FYI Of the 119 voters - 5 had those as their top 4.
As a 12 year old the pj ten fold out poster cover thing was the coolest thing ever.
No love for Ten?
And the winner is..............................<drum roll>....................................
The vote was pretty close in the final round.....
GNR - Appetite for Destruction - was the winner in each round of this. So it was very consistently the top debut album. However, I do wonder if there was any generational thing there and if head to head with one of the classic rock era albums (Boston or Led Zep) it might have been a different outcome or closer. Seemed like votes were split a little in that regard. And Boston was nowhere near as high until the final (it was actually a distant 5th in the first round, but finished 2nd here while PJ was 2nd in the prelim round but fell to 4th in the final round).
Seems like as the field narrowed Boston picked up more votes and PJ lost them....I think (in some cases) with only 1 to vote for, people either were going with the more recent (GNR or PJ) or the older (Boston or Led Zep) and more opted for GNR than PJ while the Boston/Zep crowd was split. If you look at the votes that way there were 53 combined for Boston/Led Zep and 52 for GNR/PJ. Might have been a very close vote head to head if thats true. Just my opinion....
Here was the semifinal round
And in the prelim round - I can't show a picture as there are so many - but here are the votes:
GNR - 74
Pearl Jam - 60
Led Zep - 54
Beastie Boys - 39
Boston 38
Weezer - 29
Jimi Hendrix -28
Stevie Ray Vaughn - 28
Van Halen - 28
NWA - 28
Mumford and Sons - 27
Eminem - 25
Kids these days...
GnR gets the older and younger crowd.
Love the top 3 but the order is wrong.
BowSowy said:
Really tough choice, but I know that this:Chipotlemonger said:
Ten
is the absolute wrong choice.
Looks like a pretty good portion of voters disagreed with you.
GnR is definitely right in between generations.. if you were in our just of of high school at that point, you could be a fan since you would have discovered it at an impressionable time in your life. If you were 5-10, you would easily grow up to be a fan. And all ages in between.
If you were mid 30s or older at that point, you probably are more of a zepp or boston fan, since that was music from your teens or college years, and most people don't discover many new favorites that late in life.
If you were mid 30s or older at that point, you probably are more of a zepp or boston fan, since that was music from your teens or college years, and most people don't discover many new favorites that late in life.
I was 14 when Appetite came out and I voted for Zeppelin.
I respect this vote. I just wanted to share my perspective.
GNR AFD - revived a music genre
I have full respect for GNR. I saw them live in 1989 opening for the Rolling Stones at the LA Coliseum. More than half the crowd was there to see GNR. I remember when the album hit in 87 and 88 with much buzz and energy. We needed that living in the late 80s music scene full of George Michael and Tiffany crud. This album has legs and still has the ability to move me.
LZ 1 - created a music genre
With many of us not being alive in 1969 or at least musically tuned in, it's hard to understand what impact this album, this group, had on the industry. Many dismiss LZ, as I saw in a post earlier, as it's LZ, stairway, etc. many will vote just because it's LZ. That glosses over what really happened and it's easy to do. You can get burned out on LZ. They have always just been there. In the past, I have aggressively turn off any LZ song, especially StoH.
With the re-release of LZ vinyl, I have made a rediscovery of this album (and group). I can't say when I ever listened to the entire album before the re-release. It's been a very eye opening journey that I have thoroughly enjoyed.
Read about what was going on when this album was released, with no major backing, no advertising, no support from critics or radio, no singles released. Recorded and mixed on a shoestring budget. They didn't have a chance. But something happened as they toured opening for bands nobody cares about today. I have read where those lucky enough to have a copy of this album back then, invited friends over just to listen to something never heard before. Word of mouth was rampant. Radio stations eventually had to change their format to accommodate the demand, and the rise of FM radio happened.
Again, this is not a criticism of the vote. I voted for most of these albums on their way up. I just wanted to share my enthusiasm for re-discovery. Buy the vinyl and put it on some Sunday morning. Listen for the ambient recording techniques of placing the mic in the middle of the room instead of right next to the amp. Think about what it was like to first hear this album with the back drop of what was popular then. Rediscover the blues, rediscover the riffs that all began here.
Do the same with Boston. Another ground breaking album based on new technology. I own that one on original vinyl. Another great listen.
Thank you Z. J. Snow for setting up these votes. It's been fun to watch.
GNR AFD - revived a music genre
I have full respect for GNR. I saw them live in 1989 opening for the Rolling Stones at the LA Coliseum. More than half the crowd was there to see GNR. I remember when the album hit in 87 and 88 with much buzz and energy. We needed that living in the late 80s music scene full of George Michael and Tiffany crud. This album has legs and still has the ability to move me.
LZ 1 - created a music genre
With many of us not being alive in 1969 or at least musically tuned in, it's hard to understand what impact this album, this group, had on the industry. Many dismiss LZ, as I saw in a post earlier, as it's LZ, stairway, etc. many will vote just because it's LZ. That glosses over what really happened and it's easy to do. You can get burned out on LZ. They have always just been there. In the past, I have aggressively turn off any LZ song, especially StoH.
With the re-release of LZ vinyl, I have made a rediscovery of this album (and group). I can't say when I ever listened to the entire album before the re-release. It's been a very eye opening journey that I have thoroughly enjoyed.
Read about what was going on when this album was released, with no major backing, no advertising, no support from critics or radio, no singles released. Recorded and mixed on a shoestring budget. They didn't have a chance. But something happened as they toured opening for bands nobody cares about today. I have read where those lucky enough to have a copy of this album back then, invited friends over just to listen to something never heard before. Word of mouth was rampant. Radio stations eventually had to change their format to accommodate the demand, and the rise of FM radio happened.
Again, this is not a criticism of the vote. I voted for most of these albums on their way up. I just wanted to share my enthusiasm for re-discovery. Buy the vinyl and put it on some Sunday morning. Listen for the ambient recording techniques of placing the mic in the middle of the room instead of right next to the amp. Think about what it was like to first hear this album with the back drop of what was popular then. Rediscover the blues, rediscover the riffs that all began here.
Do the same with Boston. Another ground breaking album based on new technology. I own that one on original vinyl. Another great listen.
Thank you Z. J. Snow for setting up these votes. It's been fun to watch.
EDIT - I posted this below having not read the post above^^^^^^ I was writing mine as you posted yours I guess. Interesting that we both felt compelled to mention LZ.
Personally my vote changed on this....from what I thought it would be heading in.
My initial thought on all of this before putting up the poll was Boston and GNR - those are the first 2 that came to mind - and I do love both of those.....
but in the end I voted for Led Zeppelin when it came down to 1 album.
When I went back and listened to them all the way through the one that really still resonated with me more than I expected, was LZ. the others I listened to and it was like "yeah I know this"..."great song"....etc....but I would keep on working just listening.....after I finished LZ I was enthralled, it stopped me down several times just to listen and appreciate. Felt like I had been to a great concert after listening to it.
Boston - great new kind of sound, definitely great music and a great voice by Brad Delp. all 8 songs were strong as well. It does miss something in the influence area though - nobody ever really trid to sound like Boston. Technically it was a masterpiece of course, Schulz is a genius.
PJ - nowhere near as strong as an entire album, 6-7 great songs and the rest (3-4) don't hold up as well and are not standouts. I recognize the influence here, but it is certainly split with Nirvana for that time/genre as the leaders. I was enthralled by PJ when they came out and they are the most prolific of the 4 (Boston had what 5 albums total, LZ had 9, and GNR 3-4 of the great lineup including EPs).
GNR - just a fantastic first album and it's pretty solid top to bottom. It did nothing less than save rock and roll from the horrible hair bands. And there is no doubt GNR was the biggest band in the world for 5 years or so. Some absolute classics - I have no qualms saying Sweet Child and Welcome to the Jungle are just 2 great songs and might be the 2 best songs on any of these 4 albums.
But LZ........
Really incredible album I know all 8 songs (excluding the acoustic Black Mountain Side) by heart and it's the best album here top to bottom. 4-5 absolute classics and 7 of them are staples of classic rock while the last is a rocking 8:30 guttural jam of epic proportions. In terms of something new, influence after them, top to bottom greatness, and just the grab you by your balls unapologetic wailing and flailing blues based rock and roll - with a voice from the gods, a guitar virtuoso, a drummer who just hammered away relentlessly, and the melodic influence of JPJ. It's raw rock and roll at its finest.
I think LZ suffers from the fact that for the other 3 this debut was also their best album. Thats not true of LZ as II and IV were their critical and commercial biggest albums. But just on its own merits and what it meant to RnR longterm and the longevity......
I voted LZ. But I'm not surprised it did not win....nor am I disappointed. All 4 finalists were worthy.
This was fun though...made me really invest time in them and I'm glad I did again. More than just hearing those songs occasionally or in rotation, I enjoyed listening to the full albums.
I was born in '64 so was too young to know about LZ at the beginning but I definitely heard them and listened to them in Jr High and HS. Hell every HS Dance the DJ played Stairway at some point. When Bonham died, some group/club hung a banner in the commons/lunchroom sayo9ng something like "We will miss you John Bonham!"
Boston was in my wheelhouse. I grew up on a steady diet of Boston, Rush, Kansas, Seger, Aerosmith. Mid to late70's rock.
GnR didnt arrive until I was finishing college. It was much edgier that what I grew up on and definitely more edge than the 80's MTV electronic crap that was being played at the time.
Boston was in my wheelhouse. I grew up on a steady diet of Boston, Rush, Kansas, Seger, Aerosmith. Mid to late70's rock.
GnR didnt arrive until I was finishing college. It was much edgier that what I grew up on and definitely more edge than the 80's MTV electronic crap that was being played at the time.
Lowest vote getter, so I think my statement was true.
Great minds think alike. Or something like that.
LZ 1should launch you into LZ II. Aka the Brown Bomber. I need to plug LZ 3. An overlooked gem.
On a semi related note regarding the term Greatest:
I don't listen to Mozart on any regular basis but I do know it when I hear it, 230 years later. What songs will someone 230 years from now say that about? I ponder that question at times. What songs, what groups will stand the test of centuries? LZ and the Beatles later years keeps bringing the new generation in. Will they continue to do that? Will they die off? Is this true art or just pop culture that will be thrown into the trash heap of history. Is it Mozart genius level we are listening to or not? Why do we still care about Mozart or the classics?
LZ 1should launch you into LZ II. Aka the Brown Bomber. I need to plug LZ 3. An overlooked gem.
On a semi related note regarding the term Greatest:
I don't listen to Mozart on any regular basis but I do know it when I hear it, 230 years later. What songs will someone 230 years from now say that about? I ponder that question at times. What songs, what groups will stand the test of centuries? LZ and the Beatles later years keeps bringing the new generation in. Will they continue to do that? Will they die off? Is this true art or just pop culture that will be thrown into the trash heap of history. Is it Mozart genius level we are listening to or not? Why do we still care about Mozart or the classics?
Chipotlemonger said:BowSowy said:
Really tough choice, but I know that this:Chipotlemonger said:
Ten
is the absolute wrong choice.
Looks like a pretty good portion of voters disagreed with you.
A good portion=the least amount
BowSowy said:
Lowest vote getter, so I think my statement was true.
Got 20% of the vote, which was a fairly even spread in itself. GNR only got 33% of the vote. Lost by only 2 votes, with 24 to 26. That's within the range of deviation I would say.
Edit: did y'all learn anything in school? 24-26-27 all within 3 votes of eachother. Deviation of the entire set is over 6. They all lost big compared to GNR anyways. Y'all act like they are a distant 4th.
And by the way...it's easily overlooked because it was not in their heydey.....but I think the greatest live album is
This was a phenomenal performance even if it was without John Bonham. Jason Bonham sat in for his dad and did an admirable job, nobody could have done better I think.
LZ reunited for only the 2nd time really in 2007 - the first being LiveAid which they didn't even rehearse much for and it was a poor performance.....but this was a tribute concert for Ahmet Ertugen a record executive and was at the O2 arena in London.....one show, the first full concert by LZ since early 1980......
And they were on fire...do yourself a favor and get the BR and watch it with a great surround system.
Quote:
According to Guinness World Records 2009, the concert holds the world record for the "Highest Demand for Tickets for One Music Concert" as 20 million requests for the reunion show were rendered online.
Unreal - the could have done a world tour and been the biggest concert tour in history - they still could. But they may be too far past their prime now to put on a show of this caliber.
It was not released until 2012 after they took a long time to mix and perfect it and the sound is amazing.
And it won the Grammy for Best Rock Album - it wasn't even new material o course - amazing.
my comments on a few tracks in bold....
Set
"Good Times Bad Times" (John Bonham, John Paul Jones, and Jimmy Page) 3:12
"Ramble On" (Page and Robert Plant) 5:45
"Black Dog" (Jones, Page, and Plant) 5:53
"In My Time of Dying" (Bonham, Jones, Page, and Plant) 11:11 - an 11+ minute blues testament of anguish and pain
"For Your Life" (Page and Plant) 6:40
"Trampled Under Foot" (Jones, Page, and Plant) 6:20
"Nobody's Fault but Mine" (Page and Plant) 6:44
"No Quarter" (Jones, Page, and Plant) 9:20 - an absolute orgy of surreal sound, JPJ at his best, alternately quiet and brooding and then raucous and electric
"Since I've Been Loving You" (Jones, Page, and Plant) 7:52
"Dazed and Confused" (Page; inspired by Jake Holmes) 11:44 - just a frenetic, power packed tour de force, Jimmy on fire
"Stairway to Heaven" (Page and Plant) 8:49 - it is what it is, and done very well of course but this isn't the feature by far
"The Song Remains the Same" (Page and Plant) 5:47
"Misty Mountain Hop" (Jones, Page, and Plant) 5:07
"Kashmir" (Bonham, Page, and Plant) 9:07 - probably the best song on here and best version of this song, masterful, closes the show before encores....
First encore
"Whole Lotta Love" (Bonham, Willie Dixon, Jones, Page and Plant) 7:26
Second encore
"Rock and Roll" (Bonham, Jones, Page, and Plant) 4:35
Dont care still got last LOL
Great posts, data and ZJS.
I can live with GNR. Great album. But I agree that LZ suffers from the fact that they only got better after their debut, and GNR went in the other direction.
And Celebration Day is an amazing film and album. Saw it in the theaters, have the bluray, and the album. That is easily my favorite live performance if Kashmir. Absolutely epic.
I can live with GNR. Great album. But I agree that LZ suffers from the fact that they only got better after their debut, and GNR went in the other direction.
And Celebration Day is an amazing film and album. Saw it in the theaters, have the bluray, and the album. That is easily my favorite live performance if Kashmir. Absolutely epic.
I have to bring up something that hasn't been said yet. Songwriters.
Nearly half of LZ 1 are not original songs composed by someone in the group, and some consider black mountainside heavily borrowed as well, making it more than half the album. Covers. This has to discount it some.
GnR was all new material entirely written by members of GnR, with two songs receiving credit from guys who were in bands with the guys from GnR before it formed.
PJ ten is about half gossard and half ament, with the others pitching in for a few songs. No outside sources.
Boston takes it a step further and it's nearly all written by Scholz, with Delp penning 1 song solo and contributing with Scholz to 1 other song. That's the most impressive. It's all new material from basically 1 dude. But, I don't think it's the strongest album and didn't have the impact on rock that AFD did.
So since GnR is all new material from members of GnR or former bandmates of GnR members, they deserve it.
I'll say it bluntly.. sorry, Zeppelin can't get all time best debut when half the record isn't original.
Nearly half of LZ 1 are not original songs composed by someone in the group, and some consider black mountainside heavily borrowed as well, making it more than half the album. Covers. This has to discount it some.
GnR was all new material entirely written by members of GnR, with two songs receiving credit from guys who were in bands with the guys from GnR before it formed.
PJ ten is about half gossard and half ament, with the others pitching in for a few songs. No outside sources.
Boston takes it a step further and it's nearly all written by Scholz, with Delp penning 1 song solo and contributing with Scholz to 1 other song. That's the most impressive. It's all new material from basically 1 dude. But, I don't think it's the strongest album and didn't have the impact on rock that AFD did.
So since GnR is all new material from members of GnR or former bandmates of GnR members, they deserve it.
I'll say it bluntly.. sorry, Zeppelin can't get all time best debut when half the record isn't original.
I had no doubt AFD would win from the beginning
62strat said:
I have to bring up something that hasn't been said yet. Songwriters.
Nearly half of LZ 1 are not original songs composed by someone in the group, and some consider black mountainside heavily borrowed as well, making it more than half the album. Covers. This has to discount it some.
GnR was all new material entirely written by members of GnR, with two songs receiving credit from guys who were in bands with the guys from GnR before it formed.
PJ ten is about half gossard and half ament, with the others pitching in for a few songs. No outside sources.
Boston takes it a step further and it's nearly all written by Scholz, with Delp penning 1 song solo and contributing with Scholz to 1 other song. That's the most impressive. It's all new material from basically 1 dude. But, I don't think it's the strongest album and didn't have the impact on rock that AFD did.
So since GnR is all new material from members of GnR or former bandmates of GnR members, they deserve it.
I'll say it bluntly.. sorry, Zeppelin can't get all time best debut when half the record isn't original.
I have no problem with your perspective - if that matters to you.
However I will mention 2 things regarding that.
1. It was still very original in that even if it borrowed from influences and even lifted chords, melodies and verses nobody had ever played it like that before or since. To me that's still "original". they created a sound, an entire genre and a legacy all their own. Nobody is going to mistake LZ version with Muddy Waters, Joan Baez or even blind Willie Dixon. It was something new.
2. That was a period in which nearly every artist was borrowing from others, or straight recording songs written by others. the Stones, The Who, even The Beatles all started out doing covers and heavily borrowing from others. the Beatles first album contained 6 cover songs and so did the next 3 or 4 albums. The Who had 3 covers on their first album, The Stones didn't even write many of their own songs until their 5th album Aftermath in 1966, they only had 1 original song on their debut and 3 on their 2nd album.
I do give a lot of credit to original sounds as well as songwriters. If LZ had not become prolific songwriters and done things that were completely original I'd discount them more. But that was just what was done then. Especially when recording albums by the seat of their pants like they did then - The Beatles first album was mostly recorded in a 12 hour period (10 of the 14 songs). Hard to do all original songs when you've got that kind of studio time. Likewise LZ first album was recorded primarily in a 36 hour period.
Tom Schulz took years in his own studio to make his sounds and write prolifically.
GNR - was a very active band on the LA club scene and west coast concerts opening for others well before they recorded their first album. In fact GNR put out an EP with some cover songs based off a recording company signing and $75K advance. they had almost a year to record that first album and all the studio time they wanted basically.
It was a different world in the 60s.
I'm not sure what you mean in 1 by saying they played it like no one else, and it is unmistakably theirs. Covers are supposed to sound like the band covering it. It would be stupid to cover a song and try to sound exactly like the original. Type O negative covers neil young, the beatles and jimi hendrix, and it sounds exactly like type o negative and their 'invented' style and they frequently add parts, rework the structure, etc. Joe cocker covered little help from friends in a way that was undeniably his.. Same can be said with Marilyn Manson's big debut hit sweet dreams. It all doesn't matter, they didn't write the song. You have to deduct credit for this. It's way easier to rework an existing song into your style or sound than it is to write a new one.Zombie Jon Snow said:62strat said:
I have to bring up something that hasn't been said yet. Songwriters.
Nearly half of LZ 1 are not original songs composed by someone in the group, and some consider black mountainside heavily borrowed as well, making it more than half the album. Covers. This has to discount it some.
GnR was all new material entirely written by members of GnR, with two songs receiving credit from guys who were in bands with the guys from GnR before it formed.
PJ ten is about half gossard and half ament, with the others pitching in for a few songs. No outside sources.
Boston takes it a step further and it's nearly all written by Scholz, with Delp penning 1 song solo and contributing with Scholz to 1 other song. That's the most impressive. It's all new material from basically 1 dude. But, I don't think it's the strongest album and didn't have the impact on rock that AFD did.
So since GnR is all new material from members of GnR or former bandmates of GnR members, they deserve it.
I'll say it bluntly.. sorry, Zeppelin can't get all time best debut when half the record isn't original.
I have no problem with your perspective - if that matters to you.
However I will mention 2 things regarding that.
1. It was still very original in that even if it borrowed from influences and even lifted chords, melodies and verses nobody had ever played it like that before or since. To me that's still "original". they created a sound, an entire genre and a legacy all their own. Nobody is going to mistake LZ version with Muddy Waters, Joan Baez or even blind Willie Dixon. It was something new.
2. That was a period in which nearly every artist was borrowing from others, or straight recording songs written by others. the Stones, The Who, even The Beatles all started out doing covers and heavily borrowing from others. the Beatles first album contained 6 cover songs and so did the next 3 or 4 albums. The Who had 3 covers on their first album, The Stones didn't even write many of their own songs until their 5th album Aftermath in 1966, they only had 1 original song on their debut and 3 on their 2nd album.
I do give a lot of credit to original sounds as well as songwriters. If LZ had not become prolific songwriters and done things that were completely original I'd discount them more. But that was just what was done then. Especially when recording albums by the seat of their pants like they did then - The Beatles first album was mostly recorded in a 12 hour period (10 of the 14 songs). Hard to do all original songs when you've got that kind of studio time. Likewise LZ first album was recorded primarily in a 36 hour period.
Tom Schulz took years in his own studio to make his sounds and write prolifically.
GNR - was a very active band on the LA club scene and west coast concerts opening for others well before they recorded their first album. In fact GNR put out an EP with some cover songs based off a recording company signing and $75K advance. they had almost a year to record that first album and all the studio time they wanted basically.
It was a different world in the 60s.
And they didn't just 'borrow' for a few songs, they are straight up covers, reworked a bit. It's not like the recent spirit - stairway to heaven deal.. where you could say only the one section was 'lifted' and the songs hardly resemble each other. Dazed and confused was played by page in yardbirds, with the bow and all. Plant rewrote some lyrics, page added a riff.
2. Jimi's debut album is 1967 and 100% all new original material written by Jimi. His album was in this contest, and honestly I think it should be in replacing LZ because of this whole discussion.
Also, don't mistake studio time for song writing time, as they often do not coincide, ESPECIALLY on your first album. As the saying goes, you have your whole life time to write your first album, but a short time to write your second.
I'd say LZ II is better than I, and it's composed of even more original material than I. This gives LZ I even less of a shine, since they did better on II and had only 10 months to do it, while yardbirds to LZI was a few years wasn't it? and half the material was reworking old stuff.
Anyway, it all doesn't matter, because it didn't win. But if it did, these would be some serious elements that maybe people didn't consider.
Technically, Jimi's debut had one cover (Hey Joe). But 16/17 songs were original.
Oh whoops I was looking at the first UK release, it didn't have hey joe.
The few points regarding LZ 1 covers
The songs crossed decades and genres. Blues was imported to England. England imported them back to the States as Metal. The young American folks buying the album never heard a single Wiilie Dixon song ever. They certainly didn't hear Jake Holmes. From a creativity standpoint, is it a knock on LZ they didn't write it? Maybe. But don't discount the process. I can't see anyone returning LZ 1 because it's full of covers. It just doesn't come across that way.
The songs crossed decades and genres. Blues was imported to England. England imported them back to the States as Metal. The young American folks buying the album never heard a single Wiilie Dixon song ever. They certainly didn't hear Jake Holmes. From a creativity standpoint, is it a knock on LZ they didn't write it? Maybe. But don't discount the process. I can't see anyone returning LZ 1 because it's full of covers. It just doesn't come across that way.
oh I agree, 90% of the American buyers probably thought these were all original works. Hell, I only know because of the advent of Wiki. I've never heard all these original versions of the songs, aside from the few snippets I listened to at the start of this discussion.aggiedata said:
The few points regarding LZ 1 covers
The songs crossed decades and genres. Blues was imported to England. England imported them back to the States as Metal. The young American folks buying the album never heard a single Wiilie Dixon song ever. They certainly didn't hear Jake Holmes. From a creativity standpoint, is it a knock on LZ they didn't write it? Maybe. But don't discount the process. I can't see anyone returning LZ 1 because it's full of covers. It just doesn't come across that way.
But that doesn't matter, they aren't all original. Take it to the extreme, say the album was 100% reworked covers, but the American listener had no idea because they were all old English standards and blues tunes.. can it be in the running for the best debut album ever? With no original material? I really don't think that would be a discussion, because it shouldn't. This album lies in between this extreme example and an all original album, like Ten, AFD, and Boston.
Because of that, I really think it should not have been in the top 4. Jimi should have been, but all this cover business is probably unbeknownst or was not analyzed by those who voted. They simply saw Zeppelin and voted.
Jimmy Page took an obscure song from the man who co wrote Be a Pepper for Dr. Pepper and turned it into one of the greatest rock concert centerpieces of all time. That's not Linda Ronstadt singing a Desperado Eagles cover. It's genius. Along with all the Willie Davis stuff too. Genre creating genius. This album consistently rates top 50 all time, debut or not. Pretty good for a cover band.
I get your point. But these aren't covers. They took dead songs the general populous never heard of and created a heavy metal sound that literally 100s of bands owe their very existence too. That's a hell of a debut in my book.
I get your point. But these aren't covers. They took dead songs the general populous never heard of and created a heavy metal sound that literally 100s of bands owe their very existence too. That's a hell of a debut in my book.
62strat said:oh I agree, 90% of the American buyers probably thought these were all original works. Hell, I only know because of the advent of Wiki. I've never heard all these original versions of the songs, aside from the few snippets I listened to at the start of this discussion.aggiedata said:
The few points regarding LZ 1 covers
The songs crossed decades and genres. Blues was imported to England. England imported them back to the States as Metal. The young American folks buying the album never heard a single Wiilie Dixon song ever. They certainly didn't hear Jake Holmes. From a creativity standpoint, is it a knock on LZ they didn't write it? Maybe. But don't discount the process. I can't see anyone returning LZ 1 because it's full of covers. It just doesn't come across that way.
But that doesn't matter, they aren't all original. Take it to the extreme, say the album was 100% reworked covers, but the American listener had no idea because they were all old English standards and blues tunes.. can it be in the running for the best debut album ever? With no original material? I really don't think that would be a discussion, because it shouldn't. This album lies in between this extreme example and an all original album, like Ten, AFD, and Boston.
Because of that, I really think it should not have been in the top 4. Jimi should have been, but all this cover business is probably unbeknownst or was not analyzed by those who voted. They simply saw Zeppelin and voted.
or they applied any of about 10 other criteria they could have - it's subjective - it wasn't the best ORIGINAL material only debut album. It's irrelevant to one of the greatest albums in rock history imho.
Rolling Stone had it as the 29th best Rock Album of All-time. And that was above LZ II and IV....and ahead of any other debut album except Jimi - which I agree was underappreciated here as well.
They didn't seem to care about its origins for some of the tracks:
Atlantic, 1969
Quote:
On their first album, Led Zeppelin were still in the process of inventing their own sound, moving on from the heavy rave-ups of guitarist Jimmy Page's previous band, the Yardbirds. But from the beginning, Zeppelin had the astonishing fusion of Page's lyrical guitar-playing, Robert Plant's paint-peeling love-hound yowl, and John Paul Jones and John Bonham's avalanche boogie. "We were learning what got us off most and what got people off most," said Plant. Yet the template for everything Zeppelin achieved in the 1970s is here: brutal rock ("Communication Breakdown"), thundering power balladry ("Your Time Is Gonna Come"), acid-flavored folk blues ("Babe I'm Gonna Leave You"). Heavy metal still lives in its shadow.
And I don't know about others but I certainly didn't just vote for LZ....my initial inclination was Boston or GNR actually. but after listening to them all the way through it stood out, regardless of it's source.
Anyway....it's a popularity contest and GNR rightfully won and it is a worthy album.
Willie Dixon
Junkhead said:
Willie Dixon
Happy hour started early.
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