bobinator said:

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The only real question for me, because we haven't really seen the extent of Arya's (or any of the faceless men) power here is she can only take on faces of people about her size or does her body actually change.

Put another way, can she impersonate Littlefinger? That's the only real question I have about where this plot is going.

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Well she did impersonate Craster. He's much bigger than her...

Brennus said:

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she impersonated Walder Frey, who is larger than her. I don't remember craster?

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In the Frey scene she was sitting for a lot of it and then was standing up away from anyone that would notice the height difference.

But I do think the answer is that she can. That's why I think she offs Littlefinger and then becomes him to see what everyone, including Sansa, is really up to.

Just Frey. Craster was dead long before Arya had that ability.

bobinator said:

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Brennus said:

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she impersonated Walder Frey, who is larger than her. I don't remember craster?

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In the Frey scene she was sitting for a lot of it and then was standing up away from anyone that would notice the height difference.

But I do think the answer is that she can. That's why I think she offs Littlefinger and then becomes him to see what everyone, including Sansa, is really up to.

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It pretty blantly shows her shrink when she pulls iff the Frey mask.

Well that's bc the actors are different heights

I just watched the scene again to see if it was definitive and couldn't decide, but I think we're in agreement here that she can impersonate anyone as long as she has the face.

bangobango said:

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bobinator said:

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Brennus said:

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she impersonated Walder Frey, who is larger than her. I don't remember craster?

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In the Frey scene she was sitting for a lot of it and then was standing up away from anyone that would notice the height difference.

But I do think the answer is that she can. That's why I think she offs Littlefinger and then becomes him to see what everyone, including Sansa, is really up to.

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It pretty blantly shows her shrink when she pulls iff the Frey mask.

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Eh, after reviewing the scene, "blatant" might not be the right word.

I think it shows her shrinking. The coat looks big on her and she was standing long enough in that scene that it should have been noticeable if there was that big of a difference.

So, I posted something similar a couple weeks ago, but the political fallout in the Riverlands from what Arya did would be massive. Kind of want to see it, but I know there isn't time.

Brennus said:

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she impersonated Walder Frey, who is larger than her. I don't remember craster?

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Yeah, y'all know who I meant.

bobinator said:

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I just watched the scene again to see if it was definitive and couldn't decide, but I think we're in agreement here that she can impersonate anyone as long as she has the face.

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Ha, just posted the same thing at the same time. Tough call, I could see it going either way.

But her becoming Littlefinger would explain why she's letting him follow her. She wants to know as much as possible, not just about him but how he thinks and plots, before she kills him so that she can impersonate him with as many people as possible.

BowSowy said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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Ehhh, Arya falling for a Littlefinger plot is kind of typical of the writing since they've no longer been able to draw from the books and had to think for themselves. Its painfully obvious where Martin's influence ended and where the tv writers have had to think for themselves, and they've proven they're not capable of the level of clever twists, intelligent dialogue, and attention to detail that he is. They're too worried about catering to internet jokes and what the show-only audience wants from their characters.

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Heaven forbid they write towards their larger audience and not cater to the nitpicky whims of a small handful.

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Oh for ****s sake, lol....they don't have to cater to the book readers, and if thats what you took from my post, well, better reading comprehension. The point was they simply aren't capable of anything more than the standard cliche tv plot twist these days.

AtlAg05 said:

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Have there been any characters that are alive/dead in the show that weren't in the books? Just curious if HBO had killed everyone that Martin did.

If they are in alignment I can't imagine a favorite isn't killed during that expedition because GRRM is evil.

Excluding Lady Stoneheart and Quentyn.

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FTR, Stannis is still alive in the books (and Jon dead) so I think you'd be hard pressed to get a lot of information about this expedition from the books.

Let's not forget that the one person Arya holds dear is Ned. IF Arya was do to something stupid and act before thinking, don't you think it would be over a letter like this?

Where did she go first when she arrived at Winterfell? To Ned's tomb.

If anything is going to set Arya off, it would be reading that Sansa essentially called Ned a traitor.

AstroAg17 said:

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If Littlefinger was doing something extraordinary that would make sense. But the situation is more attributable to Arya's carelessness than to some genius deception from Littlefinger. Arya being careless seems out of character, so it seems like it's either bad writing or she has a deeper plan.

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She barely knows anything about him, and she expects him to think what everyone else thinks about her... she's a short, teenage girl. She's underestimating him by expecting him to underestimate her.

smokeythebear said:

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Holy cow, y'all are insufferable. Arya isn't "letting Littlefinger follow her", she's being out sneaked by a truly professional sneak. He planted his trap, now we're going to wait and see if Arya falls for it. More likely than not, she confronts Sansa about it and then Sansa tells her Littlefinger played her, uniting them both together. But I can't take anymore of this bogus "ARYA IS TOTALLY DOUBLE PLAYING HIM" crap.

I swear, it's like Sansa is the only person in the world (including y'all) that actually understands you shouldn't underestimate Littlefinger.

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The problem is that it shouldn't be possible for her to be "out sneaked." She has the ability to literally change her appearance.

To not do that if she's trying to follow someone (who knows what she looks like AND doesn't know she has the ability to change her appearance) around would be so stupidly out of character. It would be like Dany going to fight someone in an underground cave that her dragons can't get to.

Like, that power is a defining trait of Arya's character, and she's just going to not use it because...?

Because she doesn't think she needs to. She thinks her sneak skills are great enough, and that he has no reason to expect he's being followed.

As to the wights:

1) There is no "infection" or rule that they must be killed by a WW to turn into a wight. There is also no rule that "any dead person north of the wall automatically turns into a wight". We saw the NK raise the wights at Hardhome with his hands. It's certainly possible (and I would argue probable) that the other WWs can also raise them within a certain distance. There's certainly more magic involved in making a WW than a wight. We saw the wights rise instantaneously, but Benjen said the Night King was trying to turn him into a WW when the CotF saved him, leaving him some sort of half-undead magical being.

2) That means the wight that came under the wall was reanimated beforehand. We KNOW this because Jon noticed it didn't smell and wasn't rotting meaning it had already been reanimated. Therefore, it was a Trojan horse move by one of the WW (if not the NK himself). Perhaps he was testing the wall to see if the magic had worn off? Perhaps he was checking to see if there were any rules around "the wall stops magic, but magic starts working again on the other side of the wall". Either way, it was clearly a Trojan horse. It is also possible that wights can go south of the wall, but the WWs can't so that's to what Benjen was referring when he said he couldn't go south of the wall.

3) All the remaining freefolk were congregated at Hardhome. Obviously the WWs would attack it as soon as they realized that's where they were congregating. The only reason anyone escaped, as someone pointed out earlier, was because Jon showed up with a bunch of boats at the last second.

4) I don't want to make too much about this since I've said numerous times that the WWs are waiting for the "right" time to attack the wall, but the OTHER difference between Hardhome and Eastwatch is that one was a big refugee camp FULL of defenseless people and a mostly useless wooden gate. Eastwatch is only manned by a small army of trained warriors and significantly better defenses (not counting any magic still related to the wall). It is clear that the NK is utilizing strategy and identified Hardhome as an easy target filled with tons of new bodies. Eastwatch is simply an obstacle to get past when trying to get to Winterfell.

Hopefully that clears things up for some people.

AggieSouth06 said:

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You're a bunch of miserable ****s. Can we start a "non-miserable-****s GOT thread?"

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Can everyone calm their tits please

smokeythebear said:

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AtlAg05 said:

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Have there been any characters that are alive/dead in the show that weren't in the books? Just curious if HBO had killed everyone that Martin did.

If they are in alignment I can't imagine a favorite isn't killed during that expedition because GRRM is evil.

Excluding Lady Stoneheart and Quentyn.

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FTR, Stannis is still alive in the books (and Jon dead) so I think you'd be hard pressed to get a lot of information about this expedition from the books.

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Or is he?

Quote:

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Your false king is dead, *******. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red *****.
Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, *******. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.
I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six *****s who came with him to Winterfell.
I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, *******, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your *******'s heart and eat it.
Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

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bobinator said:

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smokeythebear said:

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Holy cow, y'all are insufferable. Arya isn't "letting Littlefinger follow her", she's being out sneaked by a truly professional sneak. He planted his trap, now we're going to wait and see if Arya falls for it. More likely than not, she confronts Sansa about it and then Sansa tells her Littlefinger played her, uniting them both together. But I can't take anymore of this bogus "ARYA IS TOTALLY DOUBLE PLAYING HIM" crap.

I swear, it's like Sansa is the only person in the world (including y'all) that actually understands you shouldn't underestimate Littlefinger.

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The problem is that it shouldn't be possible for her to be "out sneaked." She has the ability to literally change her appearance.

To not do that if she's trying to follow someone (who knows what she looks like AND doesn't know she has the ability to change her appearance) around would be so stupidly out of character. It would be like Dany going to fight someone in an underground cave that her dragons can't get to.

Like, that power is a defining trait of Arya's character, and she's just going to not use it because...?

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Because no one knows she can do it so she shouldn't go around doing it half-heartedly when sneaking around her own house. She's interested in what LF is up to, but she's not in the Red Keep trying to assassinate Cersi.

It was dangerous enough to show off her fighting skills against Brienne. She certainly shouldn't go around changing faces just for fun.

Not sure anyone should take Ramsay f-cking Bolton's word on anything

Yeah I don't know why people are getting upset over a (mostly) perfectly reasonable discussion.

Well, didn't mean to get into semantics as I didn't read the books, just going off what others had said. I suppose the books were "vague" on the status of Stannis at the end of the most recent book.

Point remains, the show is clearly FAR past that point.

bobinator said:

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Yeah I don't know why people are getting upset over a (mostly) perfectly reasonable discussion.

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No idea either. I do not remember other season threads being as contentious as this one has been.

We can all have disagreements on the show and not call each other names over it.

smokeythebear said:

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Well, didn't mean to get into semantics as I didn't read the books, just going off what others had said. I suppose the books were "vague" on the status of Stannis at the end of the most recent book.

Point remains, the show is clearly FAR past that point.

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Yeah, I just love that letter from Ramsey and this was a good excuse to post it.

As somebody else pointed out, who is going to trust Ramsey F-ing Bolton's word on anything?