This was discussed a few pages back, but essentially because it wasn't a wight yet when it crossed the wall. The body hadn't been 'reanimated' yet.

But this is sort of what I'm talking about with the general lack of details on the wight army. Either they CAN cross the wall, in which case, what are they waiting for?

Or they can't, which makes this plot to go grab one doomed before it even starts.

Unless for some reason wights can cross the wall, but white walkers can't, which... why would that be the case?

Yeah wasn't the concensus that Maester Aemon should examine Othor's body since it was strange?

I'm with you here on that part being annoying also, I'm just trying to give the show some benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to verify the account and let everyone know what's going on.

I don't mind that as an explanation, but I don't think it's too much to ask that the show bring that up somehow. Especially because we more or less have an omniscient character.

They are government employees.....

Ok couple of thoughts:

1) Had a big post about how the show is finally "character driven" last week and then this episode was the most "plot driven" episode we've had in a few seasons. Some good, some bad, but generally I didn't like how quickly Jamie went back to normal after his devastating loss on the battlefield. Then he's talking with Tyrion and he isn't like "HOLY HELL DUDE, THOSE DRAGONS ARE INSANE! DID YOU SEE ME ALMOST DIE?"

2) LOVE seeing Gendry back, but this smell like a Euron play (randomly shows up, does a bunch of contrived stuff, then disappears again). We'll see, but I'm happy he wields a hammer and I'm happy he's going to be a reprieve for House Baratheon and hopefully rights the family name. That being said, it REALLY bothered me how quickly he went from "I've been in Kings Landing for 2 years hiding" to north of the wall with the guys that originally sold him to Melissandra. I'd love to get some more character development out of him before the show decides he's no longer important.

3) Speaking of going north of the wall, what a freaking DUMB idea from Tyrion! Look, we HAVE to finally talk about the elephant in the room; Tyrion does not want Cerci and Jamie to die. He feels tons of remorse about killing Tywin even though he was evil. He's trying to come up with every possible plan that spares the life of his two siblings. They JUST had a massive military win, and Tyrion's next move is to halt everything while they risk valuable assets to go on a goose chase in trying to convince Cerci to pause the war? Cerci hardly has any troops left anyways! You're just giving her more time to recoup (and go buy more sell-swords). Tyrion has been very smart throughout this show, but he's making terrible strategic decisions right now and it HAS to be because he, subconsciously, doesn't want to lead to the death of his brother and sister.

4) What good does convincing Cerci of the white walkers do anyways? It's not like Cerci is laying siege to Dragonstone anytime soon. Literally, the plan is to ask Cerci to sit still, which is what she's doing anyways. Makes no sense at all and I'm usually the last person to criticize the plot lines.

5) I came to the realization that Bran had no choice but become the robot he is in the show. Once GRRM defined the time travel and "all seeing" powers and then gave them to Bran, D&D were probably thinking "well ****, what do we do now? Why wouldn't Bran just start telling everyone everything? I guess we just have to make him super weird to cover-up for the obvious plot hole."

6) There's something off with Bron's status now. He saved Jamie, but then said he's parting ways because of the dragons. But then he's back leading Jamie to the meeting with Tyrion. Add to that, Cerci saying she knows Bron was part of it and asking if Jamie would punish him. Did Bron decide to go home with Tyrion? I know they didn't show anything like that, but you just have to wonder, how is Bron not scared to death of being in King's Landing? Dany could attack at any time. Cerci could have him killed at any time. Jamie isn't exactly following through with the whole castle thing, and he's no longer interested in becoming a General of the Lannister army. Just seems like Bron's character has fallen victim to "plot pushing" in this episode.

7) Really cool way to reveal that Jon wasn't a *******. To us, maybe it seemed a little "obvious", but my in-laws still think Jon is Ned's son so it hasn't been quite as overt as we make it out to be. But what is Sam going to do now? His family house is in shambles, he's basically abandoned the Night's Watch, he's taken a wildling wife, and now he's stolen from the Citadel. Where does he go? His only friends left in the world just started marching north of the wall (not that he would even know where to find them anyways).

bobinator said:

---

I don't mind that as an explanation, but I don't think it's too much to ask that the show bring that up somehow. Especially because we more or less have an omniscient character.

---

Yea, it gets VERY frustrating when we start factoring in the fact Bran can see back thousands of years. No clue how he would know WHEN to go back to in order to learn about any potential magic linked to the wall and the WWs, but you'd think omniscient Bran would be at least a LITTLE more helpful than just a raven saying "I saw a bunch of them moving south, hurry up!"

Heck, for starters, go back and try to figure out what happened with Benjen and how he got half-turned. Benjen is the only chow character that has mentioned any magic associated with the wall IIRC.

Quote:

---

4) What good does convincing Cerci of the white walkers do anyways? It's not like Cerci is laying siege to Dragonstone anytime soon. Literally, the plan is to ask Cerci to sit still, which is what she's doing anyways. Makes no sense at all and I'm usually the last person to criticize the plot lines.

---

Gives the storr the ability for Cerci to send troops with the rest of them to the Wall ( and Jaime) and then plan the backstage and takeover.

Cercei is certainly not standing still, she's made overtures to the Golden Company and talked about other mercenaries and she has Euron's fleet out there doing something or other.

"Can this army cross the wall?" seems like the only question that should matter to Bran.

chase128 said:

---

PMD03 said:

---

chase128 said:

---

Also, this whole bring a wight to Cersei to broker an armistice seems way too risky. I dunno how they get a "live" wight to KL and get it in front of Cersei without her killing anyone. Even if they do that, she's not going to believe them or abide by the armistice. The good guys better try their best to see any of Cersei's backstabbing coming or else it's gonna seem really dumb. Anyone with half a brain has to realize Cersei won't back down, play nice, or give any quarter.

---

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I am a few pages back and catching up. I don't see Cersei being convinced, but I do see Jaime being convinced. At some point he is going to turn against Cersei as the prophecy or visions that Dany saw showed a gold man fighting the zombie mountain. Maybe that is how the Lannister or King's Landing army finally gets set right.

---

I think you might be on to something. Jamie didn't seem too thrilled she was pregnant and the threat that she threw at him didn't seem to go well with him. I think the chance for him to kill her is still on the table

---

When he asked who they'd say was the father, and she said something like - we'll tell them you are - I thought he'd ask if it would be true.

TxElsie said:

---

chase128 said:

---

PMD03 said:

---

chase128 said:

---

Also, this whole bring a wight to Cersei to broker an armistice seems way too risky. I dunno how they get a "live" wight to KL and get it in front of Cersei without her killing anyone. Even if they do that, she's not going to believe them or abide by the armistice. The good guys better try their best to see any of Cersei's backstabbing coming or else it's gonna seem really dumb. Anyone with half a brain has to realize Cersei won't back down, play nice, or give any quarter.

---

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I am a few pages back and catching up. I don't see Cersei being convinced, but I do see Jaime being convinced. At some point he is going to turn against Cersei as the prophecy or visions that Dany saw showed a gold man fighting the zombie mountain. Maybe that is how the Lannister or King's Landing army finally gets set right.

---

I think you might be on to something. Jamie didn't seem too thrilled she was pregnant and the threat that she threw at him didn't seem to go well with him. I think the chance for him to kill her is still on the table

---

When he asked who they'd say was the father, and she said something like - we'll tell them you are - I thought he'd ask if it would be true.

---

Nice. And end up dead.

Although it would be fitting if she gave birth to a zombie baby that kills her because the Mountain is the father.

I'm willing to let this Gendry thing play out before complaining about it, but are there any good theories of why exactly he needed to come back or is this just a nod to the fans?

bobinator said:

---

I'm willing to let this Gendry thing play out before complaining about it, but are there any good theories of why exactly he needed to come back or is this just a nod to the fans?

---

Maybe he gets Storm's End. Someone needs to continue the Baratheon line. Certainly helps to get in the good graces.

Other than that, just fan service

wangus12 said:

---

bobinator said:

---

I'm willing to let this Gendry thing play out before complaining about it, but are there any good theories of why exactly he needed to come back or is this just a nod to the fans?

---

Maybe he gets Storm's End. Someone needs to continue the Baratheon line. Certainly helps to get in the good graces.

Other than that, just fan service

---

This. Plus maybe he's been brought back to give Arya a love interest/ethical dilemma. Like forcing her to choose between being a ninja assassin or having a family.

bobinator said:

---

I'm willing to let this Gendry thing play out before complaining about it, but are there any good theories of why exactly he needed to come back or is this just a nod to the fans?

---

Well, in the books he's with Thoros and Lady Stoneheart, right? Assuming the books go that same way... he, Thoros, and the Hound might end up at this spot regardless? I think its an indication that he's got some role to play left as envisioned by GRRM. Plus they foreshadowed that hard with his "Ive been waiting for something" line. I dont think its just a nod to fans.

wangus12 said:

---

bobinator said:

---

I'm willing to let this Gendry thing play out before complaining about it, but are there any good theories of why exactly he needed to come back or is this just a nod to the fans?

---

Maybe he gets Storm's End. Someone needs to continue the Baratheon line. Certainly helps to get in the good graces.

Other than that, just fan service

---

Back when HBO started this D&D sat down with Martin and they went over how each character's thread is supposed to end according to Martin's "plan" for the series. IMO bringing back Gendry means he has a role to play in the end game. I have no idea what it is but I don't see them rehiring an actor with a special Baratheon hammer just for fan service.

By the same logic, the characters that are absent in the show (fake Targ, Stoneheart, many others) likely have nothing really to contribute to the final story.

It is weird how Euron has vanished. Maybe getting sellswords from Essos?

My theory is that he is the last surviving Baratheon (albeit without the name) and at the end, he'll have to rebuild House Baratheon when the war is over. Likewise, I have a feeling Sam may be called to rebuild House Tarly since he's the only one left there too. House Stark may be in trouble because it's only girls, but maybe Podrick will be progressive and take the Stark name. House Bolton is done for and so are House Tyrell and House Frey. House Martel may still have some cousins floating around so they should be ok.

This "theory" is the only reason I was excited about Cerci possibly being pregnant again. I'd love for her to die in childbirth and for Jamie to finally be able to raise a son as his own to carry on the Lannister name. Though, I guess either him or Tyrion could easily go get someone pregnant after this whole war is over with.

227 replies since I last checked in, damn guys

E5 S7 Likes and Gripes

Like -
Jon touching Drogo
Littlefinger playing Arya (He's next level wicked)
Cersei either pregnant or playing Jaime that she's pregnant. (He needed motivation)
Gilly's ignored annulment reveal

Gripes -
Distance/Time compression (seems like characters travel 400 miles in a day)
Not using a dragon to go get a wight. C'mon man. She has three, she could spare one. At least explain why it cannot work. Reminds me of the Rocs in LOTR.
Bron seems like an afterthought now.

In regards to what the WW and undead army have been waiting for all season, I think this is the best explanation:
(seems to me to be a theory and not a spoiler)

Of all the things I've been complaining about, Euron's absence is somewhat plausible even within the condensed timeline of the show since we last saw the fleet at Casterly Rock. They could conceivably still be sailing back around the continent or even have gone on to Pyke for a while for some reason or another. It's why they weren't there to stop the ships carrying the Dothraki.

RDV-1992 said:

---

wangus12 said:

---

bobinator said:

---

I'm willing to let this Gendry thing play out before complaining about it, but are there any good theories of why exactly he needed to come back or is this just a nod to the fans?

---

Maybe he gets Storm's End. Someone needs to continue the Baratheon line. Certainly helps to get in the good graces.

Other than that, just fan service

---

This. Plus maybe he's been brought back to give Arya a love interest/ethical dilemma. Like forcing her to choose between being a ninja assassin or having a family.

---

I think he's zombie fodder.

Will be a cheap sacrifice next week to show fans it's really serious north of the wall, y'all. Honestly cannot think of any other reason to bring him back other that to: shut up those wondering about him; and 2) use him to get emotional reaction when he's killed off.

The really unskilled way they reintroduced him makes me think GRRM had no intent of doing anything important with him.

You better get the Hell out of here with your logic and reason.

I've been on the "go around it" theory since they changed the opening sequence of the show, that can't be a coincidence...

But having said that I'd be a little annoyed if after all this talk of the potential magic of the wall if the solution is just "go around it."

The north is fairly cold even in the summer, so it seems that any winter would freeze the sea enough to make it possible to go around it.