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I'm concerned Randall Tarly and Jamie would be able to out maneuver a wild pack of Dothraki riders that have no strategy.

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In open battle, absolutely. But if this is how it goes down, it will most likely be an ambush.

I expect Tarly to stay behind at Highgarden, or otherwise not be with Jaime when Dany hits.

Nah, Daddo and Dickon get roasted and Sam returns to inherit Horn Hill

redline248 said:

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Robb and Jon both also let their hormones cloud their judgement, and it costs them both. One more than the other, but still.

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In the books it cost Dany as well.

That would be great, but I kind of expect a showdown of some sort between Sam and daddy before the end.

AGeng25 said:

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Reading posts questioning the timeline and timing of events or people's travels is like watching the Sand Snakes in battle in the show. Please stop. Please.

It's also funny how one post is "no character development for cool characters in the show" and the next is "too much pointless character time for characters who seemingly don't matter in the books". Always need something to complain about I suppose...

Question to the book readers: do you really think GRRM will finish the last 2 books? If so, do you think he can really bring it all together without totally ignoring some of the plots/characters/story lines he created up to this point?

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Maybe, but here's the problem. The plot is so far from home that I'm not sure it would only be two books. I believe there's an old interview where he eludes to an eighth book not being totally impossible. That brings the chances of the series ever being finished down considerably.

Yeah same here. I don't see Sam as someone who'd break his vows with the Night's Watch either. Granted there may no longer be a Night's Watch if the Wall comes down

wangus12 said:

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I'm concerned Randall Tarly and Jamie would be able to out maneuver a wild pack of Dothraki riders that have no strategy.

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In open battle, absolutely. But if this is how it goes down, it will most likely be an ambush.

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How about this. It is the middle of the night at the Lannister army camp, just a day's march from King's Landing when you hear a distant dragon shriek. Suddenly the camp is on fire and people are running around looking for their weapons when a Dothraki horde comes riding through camp, chopping men in half.

Decent point. If the Night King is defeated once and for all the Night's Watch no longer has a purpose, and they could potentially all be released from their vows.

Well... It used to be that the Night's Watch was there to keep the Wildlings on the other side of the wall. Hard to say what they'll decide now.

Eddric storm - heir to storm lands now in books
Emma Stone - barethon basterd and guide for the bloody gate going to the Erie.

Completely agree with this one.

Stannis the mannis is still alive in the books. That means a WHOLE bunch of stuff has to happen in the first half of WoW to even get close to the show placement...

I was thinking they'll probably all be dead

dc509 said:

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That's what it evolved into, but it was originally formed to prevent another invasion by the Night King. Then a thousand years went by, and everyone decided that the Night King and white walkers (see Tyrion's Statement last episode) were just a myth. It really mostly became a prison.

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And more importantly a place for nobility to send their unwanted, non-heir or trouble causing sons.

It's pretty interesting because that parallels real world history; similar to to what happened during the Crusades and even early immigration to the American Colonies.

Belton Ag said:

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dc509 said:

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That's what it evolved into, but it was originally formed to prevent another invasion by the Night King. Then a thousand years went by, and everyone decided that the Night King and white walkers (see Tyrion's Statement last episode) were just a myth. It really mostly became a prison.

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And more importantly a place for nobility to send their unwanted, non-heir or trouble causing sons.

It's pretty interesting because that parallels real world history; similar to to what happened during the Crusades and even early immigration to the American Colonies.

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True, but the Donald ( guess he is the mad king ) is just now getting around to build the Wall.

Echoing others thoughts, this was a really great episode. My thoughts on this one:

1) I expected the writers to bring their A game to the Jon/Dany/Tyrion meeting, and they did not disappoint. Lots of great dialogue, humor, and foreshadowing. In particular, I thought Kit Harrington did a great job as the "New leader who doesn't know the person he's dealing with and trying to be respectful while also standing his ground". His body language in those back and forths with the headstrong Dany was really well done. All the best quotes have been said already, but lots of good in those conversations.

2) They definitely set up for Jon to still tell of dying and coming back, what with Dany asking Tyrion about 'what was that about taking a knife to the heart...'. Still some set up there. I think early next episode, there will be another good scene at Dragonstone featuring everyone before Dany takes the dragons and Dothraki on the attack.

3) Lots of discussion of Jaime outsmarting Tyrion and he certainly did, even with explanation of his growth. But could it be also fair to include the presence of Tarly in the war room as well, if he is such a well respected leader of soldiers? I think he was shown on horseback approaching Highgarten, next to Bronn.

4) Speaking of, a mere second of screen time doesn't count. Need some Bronn in the next episode, please.

5) Man, talk about an epic death scene with Olenna and Jaime. That was awesome.

6) Since no Arya in this episode, I think she'll get some love next ep and probably make her arrival at Winterfell. Bran was creepy, but I'm hoping it sets up more interesting conversations with him going forward.

Yep, I agree that Tarly certainly helped, especially since Tyrion and Olenna hadn't expected him to switch sides. But it's not like Tarly made the decision (or even the suggestion I wouldn't think) to abandon Castly Rock. That was 100% Jamie and he learned it from Robb.

Also, I really LIKED how they portrayed the two battles for CR and HG. When battles are so one-sided like that, they ARE over pretty quickly and I liked how the show can contrast between a rather unimportant battle and something extremely important like the BoB.

I think you all have written off Dorne too quickly.

I still think Tyene escapes, yes I know that she was poisoned but they spent a lot of time last season explaining how they all built up a certain level of immunity to poisons, and even when Cersei was explaining her revenge plot to Ellaria they made note that the time it would take to kill would depend on the victims own level of immunity.

Now I predict that after the Lannisters get routed Bronn some how saves her and gives her the antidote. She saved him once and he owes her. Plus if he shows up at camp Targaryen with her he will have bought his way back to the winning side and he gets to hang out with his buddy again.

I'm betting Ellaria has an antidote on her somewhere. Their next scene will be her trying to pass it to the hot sand snake.

While I guess its possible that they'll have her survive the poisoning, it would really ruin the scene of terror that the two of them had when Cersei poisoned her and was telling them how she would die. A plan to survive that would look pretty lame following that up.

Bronn is nowhere near, and he doesn't seem like the type to be that helpful to her if he was.

I hope they just kill off that entire thread. Wasted characters on people who can't act worth a damn (excluding Ellaria).

Squirrel Master said:

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Bronn is nowhere near, and he doesn't seem like the type to be that helpful to her if he was.

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Did you forget how the parted ways last season?

Also Bronn is always looking for a way to rise in the ranks, marrying the last surviving member of the ruling family of Dorne seems to be a great power move...

I bet Tyene dies. Ellaria could eventually get out the dungeon if Kings Landing is taken, but Tyene won't. It won't surprise me if her death scene is coming up, and it's pretty rough.

BrownCoat said:

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Squirrel Master said:

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Bronn is nowhere near, and he doesn't seem like the type to be that helpful to her if he was.

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Did you forget how the parted ways last season?

Also Bronn is always looking for a way to rise in the ranks, marrying the last surviving member of the ruling family of Dorne seems to be a great power move...

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Not at all. But I still don't think Bronn would risk his standing with Jaime to cross him and save the Sand snake. Bronn already has pretty fair standing, I'm not sure that's a route he chooses to get some incremental increase.

Edit: to remove my error about the aliveness of the Martell boy.

dc509 said:

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I bet Tyene dies. Ellaria could eventually get out the dungeon if Kings Landing is taken, but Tyene won't. It won't surprise me if her death scene is coming up, and it's pretty rough.

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Right. If Dorne comes back into play somehow, my money is on it being due to Ellaria escaping. Tyene is toast, and for being experts with poison, I think both of their reactions indicated they don't expect anything but death. I guess it's possible some new or lightly covered character takes lead to keep Dorne involved, but I doubt it.

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Isn't the young male who was engaged to Myrcella still alive?

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No, he got stabbed through the head by one of the sand snakes.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Isn't the young male who was engaged to Myrcella still alive?

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No, he got stabbed through the head by one of the sand snakes.

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Thanks. I did not remember that.

Nevermind.

The poison is hemorrhagic, I'd say she's got less than 21 days

Squirrel Master said:

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BrownCoat said:

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Squirrel Master said:

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Bronn is nowhere near, and he doesn't seem like the type to be that helpful to her if he was.

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Did you forget how the parted ways last season?

Also Bronn is always looking for a way to rise in the ranks, marrying the last surviving member of the ruling family of Dorne seems to be a great power move...

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Not at all. But I still don't think Bronn would risk his standing with Jaime to cross him and save the Sand snake. And calling her the last surviving member of the ruling family seems incorrect. Isn't the young male who was engaged to Myrcella still alive? Isn't he likely who is ruling Dorne at the moment. Bronn already has pretty fair standing, I'm not sure that's a route he chooses to get some incremental increase.

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Nope. He was murdered by the Sand Snakes on the boat right before Mrycella died in Jaime's arms.

M.C. Swag said:

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titanmaster_race said:

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You criticize the lack of character development for Jon Snow, but then you criticize GRRM for his development of Tyrion and Dany.

Tyrion's blood put him on trial for a murder he didn't commit, he found out his first love was fake, he murdered his father, and he has to run away from everything he's ever known. Of course he's whiny and soft. But eventually he will climb out of it when he meets Dany and becomes her Hand.

Likewise, Dany has never truly ruled before. She's faced with crap decision after crap decision, so of course she second guesses herself and gets a little paralyzed with fear. She's learning how to rule. But eventually she figures it out and will sail for Westeros.

Both of those plots are necessary character development. Though they make for extremely boring reads. I wish GRRM had made them shorter.

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You misunderstood my point. In my opinion, the character development in BOOK FIVE was not coherent with previous iterations of the characters core makeup. You can certainly rationalize these inconsistent character portrayals if you wish, but i did not view them as character development. There's no 'growth' in Tyrion becoming whiny. His life was already filled with injustices and trials, yet his wit remained his armor throughout. So NOW that he's a slave, it shifts to self bemoaning tendencies? Where is the development in that? Same for Dany. She evolved past the timid underling of others in book 1, yet now she is beholden to the trite opinion of others? That's not development in my eyes. That's regression at best....or simply inconsistent (as i've stated). We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Hmmm. As we've left Tyrion, he's abandoned his dying master and taken up with sell swords. Not really whining. It's similar to the show, in that it sets up joining Dani for the battles with the slavers. They just simplified the story.