We don't know what happened to Rheagar and Lyanna. What if they somehow got married in secret? Then Jon would have a LEGIT claim to the throne.FightinTexasAg15 said:
And the other hand is the power side. If they find out Jon's parentage, he could have a better claim to the throne than Danerys (could being key if he is still a ******* or not). If she finds this out will she feel threatened by it. I doubt Jon will want the throne, but it might make Dany uncomfortable. Or it gives her more reason to marry him and unite the kingdom?
Interested to see how it plays out.
Game of Thrones - Season 7
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Because unless the show wants to do some convoluted retcon about Polygamy and legit vs illegit heirs...that's not happening.
Yea, at this point Dany's dragons are reason enough for people to support her for the throne over a possible secret marriage from 25 years ago.AgMarauder04 said:We don't know what happened to Rheagar and Lyanna. What if they somehow got married in secret? Then Jon would have a LEGIT claim to the throne.FightinTexasAg15 said:
And the other hand is the power side. If they find out Jon's parentage, he could have a better claim to the throne than Danerys (could being key if he is still a ******* or not). If she finds this out will she feel threatened by it. I doubt Jon will want the throne, but it might make Dany uncomfortable. Or it gives her more reason to marry him and unite the kingdom?
Interested to see how it plays out.
smokeythebear said:Also, what was Raegar doing while the Mad King was killing the Starks? Wouldn't he have said "hey dad, that's my new wife's brother and father. You're not helping me out here."?FightinTexasAg15 said:
Which means Jon's grandfather killed his other grandfather and uncle, and was responsible for his father's deaths too.
I don't remember if we know yet where Rhaegar "took" Lyanna, but Brandon and some of his buddies went immediately to King's Landing to demand her release. Brandon was captured and Rickard was summoned. Rhaegar might have already traveled south to the tower of joy, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't in King's Landing.
Also, the negative opinion of Jaime's and Cersei's relationship wasn't only bc she was married to Robert. Their dad caught them doing something when they were younger, before Jaime became a King's guard, and sent Cersei away or something. The people of westeros weren't ever that cool with incest.
Also, Jon doesn't care about the throne. If he gets help from Dany, he'd be happy to let her have it...regardless of whether or not he knows he's a true Targaryen.
Not saying he does, but he has a line.
Hell, he would probably bend the knee if Dany could defeat the walkers. He's a warrior and protector, not a ruler.
Hell, he would probably bend the knee if Dany could defeat the walkers. He's a warrior and protector, not a ruler.
Jon is a Northman. HE has an incest taboo even if Dany doesn't. He was raised by Ned with Northern values, I can't imagine he would find sleeping with/marrying his aunt acceptable personally no matter what his ancestors may have done.
Now, they may hook up/ fall in love before they realize all that, but once he knows who his father is then I don't see any way he wants to have a marriage with Dany.
Now, they may hook up/ fall in love before they realize all that, but once he knows who his father is then I don't see any way he wants to have a marriage with Dany.
I agree that the incestous nature of a potential Jon and Dany 'marriage' is a bit disconcerting and I'm far from CONVICED it's going to happen.
But what I will say are 3 points that support it happening:
But lastly and the strongest point...
But what I will say are 3 points that support it happening:
- Jon and Dany are young and single and their marriage would forge a strong bond on the North and South of Westeros (this is by the far the weakest and most obvious point)
- GRRM has crafted a world where incest isn't as taboo and is in fact well documented in both the show and books as common place amongst the Targaryen lineage
But lastly and the strongest point...
- It's important to note that the original Azor Ahai murdered his WIFE with his own sword to empower it with the strength to 'fight back the night.' IF Jon is Azor Ahai...you can see how Dany may be destined for the role of his wife. (Although I'll admit that she doesn't LITERALLY have to be his wife to play a role. It could just be symbolic of the sacrifice that is necessary.)
Probably busy banging Lyanna day and night.smokeythebear said:Also, what was Raegar doing while the Mad King was killing the Starks? Wouldn't he have said "hey dad, that's my new wife's brother and father. You're not helping me out here."?FightinTexasAg15 said:
Which means Jon's grandfather killed his other grandfather and uncle, and was responsible for his father's deaths too.
Brian Earl Spilner said:Probably busy banging Lyanna day and night.smokeythebear said:Also, what was Raegar doing while the Mad King was killing the Starks? Wouldn't he have said "hey dad, that's my new wife's brother and father. You're not helping me out here."?FightinTexasAg15 said:
Which means Jon's grandfather killed his other grandfather and uncle, and was responsible for his father's deaths too.
That and if your father si insane and wants all Starks dead...not sure you tell him you are in love with one or married one secretly. Better to let him believe you have kidnapped her like everyone else thought and hope he is killed - then the kingdom is yours and you can be happy.
AgMarauder04 said:
Not saying he does, but he has a line.
Hell, he would probably bend the knee if Dany could defeat the walkers. He's a warrior and protector, not a ruler.
I think Jon feels too much responsibility to just bend the knee. He doesn't need to. So Danny won't fight White Walkers if he doesn't? Jon doesn't need Danny for warring with people, he cares about the night coming. He just needs to convince Danny which battle is more urgent to mankind.
Besides, if he does bend the knee, the northmen will just revolt (they're good at that) and have Sansa as queen in the North.
Probably means that Jon is screwed. They'll reverse roles because #strongfemalesQuote:
But lastly and the strongest point...
- It's important to note that the original Azor Ahai murdered his WIFE with his own sword to empower it with the strength to 'fight back the night.' IF Jon is Azor Ahai...you can see how Dany may be destined for the role of his wife. (Although I'll admit that she doesn't LITERALLY have to be his wife to play a role. It could just be symbolic of the sacrifice that is necessary.)
wangus12 said:Probably means that Jon is screwed. They'll reverse roles because #strongfemalesQuote:
But lastly and the strongest point...
- It's important to note that the original Azor Ahai murdered his WIFE with his own sword to empower it with the strength to 'fight back the night.' IF Jon is Azor Ahai...you can see how Dany may be destined for the role of his wife. (Although I'll admit that she doesn't LITERALLY have to be his wife to play a role. It could just be symbolic of the sacrifice that is necessary.)
Maybe his symbolic wife was the red headed wilding that was killed at castle black?
Sort of unrelated --
Was anyone else disappointed with the casting of adult Lyanna? I feel like she should've been hotter. Someone that justifies starting a war over.
Was anyone else disappointed with the casting of adult Lyanna? I feel like she should've been hotter. Someone that justifies starting a war over.
But Jon didn't kill her...and it wasn't with 'Lightbringer' (the sword that AA uses to fight the WW)
He doesn't actually have a claim on the North anyway.Aggie Joe 93 said:AgMarauder04 said:
Not saying he does, but he has a line.
Hell, he would probably bend the knee if Dany could defeat the walkers. He's a warrior and protector, not a ruler.
I think Jon feels too much responsibility to just bend the knee. He doesn't need to. So Danny won't fight White Walkers if he doesn't? Jon doesn't need Danny for warring with people, he cares about the night coming. He just needs to convince Danny which battle is more urgent to mankind.
Besides, if he does bend the knee, the northmen will just revolt (they're good at that) and have Sansa as queen in the North.
AgMarauder04 said:He doesn't actually have a claim on the North anyway.Aggie Joe 93 said:AgMarauder04 said:
Not saying he does, but he has a line.
Hell, he would probably bend the knee if Dany could defeat the walkers. He's a warrior and protector, not a ruler.
I think Jon feels too much responsibility to just bend the knee. He doesn't need to. So Danny won't fight White Walkers if he doesn't? Jon doesn't need Danny for warring with people, he cares about the night coming. He just needs to convince Danny which battle is more urgent to mankind.
Besides, if he does bend the knee, the northmen will just revolt (they're good at that) and have Sansa as queen in the North.
The nobles swore themselves to Jon. They did not swear to Cercei or Dany. I dare say Jon has more claim to the North than anyone.
They swore themselves to the male Stark heir.
He is not one.
He is not one.
Can't believe I'm actually saying this but.....Debt is right.
Jon's claim is by right of conquest. He won the BotB and was sworn fealty by the lords of the North. He is a legit King (of the North).
Jon's claim is by right of conquest. He won the BotB and was sworn fealty by the lords of the North. He is a legit King (of the North).
Let me give you a little advise padawan.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Sort of unrelated --
Was anyone else disappointed with the casting of adult Lyanna? I feel like she should've been hotter. Someone that justifies starting a war over.
Never comment on a woman's looks during or after childbirth. Ever.
(now that being said, yeah, she was no Helen of Troy).
Agreed and I am tired of all these debates about who has the better claim. The best claim is and remains ye whose army puts and keep him/her on the Throne. Always has been. That's how the Targs took it first. That's how Robert took it. That's how Cercei's kids were put on it, and that's how she got there. And if Dany sits the throne it will not because it's her right, it will be because three dragons, 10k Unsullied, and 70k Dothraki.
No they didn't.AgMarauder04 said:
They swore themselves to the male Stark heir.
He is not one.
They specifically swore themselves to Jon Snow, the white wolf, ******* son of Ned Stark.
Did you not pay attention?
I did, and I specifically remember Lil Mormont talking about the "Stark in Winterfell."
Snow won't end up Warden/King of the North. Book it.
Snow won't end up Warden/King of the North. Book it.
"I don't care if he's a *******."
Straight from little Lyanna's mouth.
Would she care if he was actually the son of Ned's sister and her namesake? Doubtful. They already are supporting someone with no "legitimate" claim.
Straight from little Lyanna's mouth.
Would she care if he was actually the son of Ned's sister and her namesake? Doubtful. They already are supporting someone with no "legitimate" claim.
...? Jon is still a Stark. As much as Sansa. I don't understand your point at all.
Get used to it
Not to get too lost in the weeds of the books but I believe it was strongly implied in the books that Rheagar and his father had already had a falling out and Rheagar had left Kings Landing for Dragonstone prior to all of this kicking off. In fact the Mad King was suspicious that the tournament (where Rheagar gave the roses to Lyana Stark) had been organized by Rheagar so that he could talk to many of the nobles at the same time & place about forcing his dad off of the throne because of his decent into madness. That is why the Mad King left Kings Landing to attend this tournament. This was the first time in years that he had left the capital because he had become something of a hermit.
haha yea, and....?
Some people were asking what Rheagar was doing when the Starks were killed. Just pointing out that by that point he had already left Kings Landing and was probably trying to figure out a way to get the Mad King off of the throne. So he would not have exactly been the first to know what the Mad King was up to. Plus he was kind of occupied with other matters.M.C. Swag said:
haha yea, and....?
Ahh gotcha, thanks.
M.C. Swag said:
haha yea, and....?
Good points.Wes97 said:Some people were asking what Rheagar was doing when the Starks were killed. Just pointing out that by that point he had already left Kings Landing and was probably trying to figure out a way to get the Mad King off of the throne. So he would not have exactly been the first to know what the Mad King was up to. Plus he was kind of occupied with other matters.M.C. Swag said:
haha yea, and....?
So in essence, the Starks died (Ned's brother and father) because they believed Lyanna had been taken hostage by the Targs, when in reality, it's almost a certainty that she ran away with her true love (Rheagar). And then Robert leads a rebellion against the Targs primarily over a woman that didn't love him in the first place. All the while, Rhaeager apparently had been plotting for a way to remove his mad father from the throne anyway. And by all accounts, it sure appears like Rhaegar would have been a good king.
That's pretty jacked up.
Ding. Ding.