Game of Thrones - Season 7

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Aggie Joe 93
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3:09p, 7/28/17
AG
Holy Useless Argument, Batman!

The Notthern royal houses were all in Jon's court just this last episode. They were all obeying him, just this last episode. They had a dramatic scene where they debated then showed two house lords (one a lady) swearing fealty to Jon. Weren't they doing that King in the North chant at the end of last season?

Jon doesn't have a "claim". He IS the accepted King of the North. Until he dies (again) or does something stupid like 'bend the knee' to Dany without consulting anyone.
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smokeythebear
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In reply to Urban Ag • 3:14p, 7/28/17
AG
Urban Ag said:
Wes97 said:
M.C. Swag said:
haha yea, and....?
Some people were asking what Rheagar was doing when the Starks were killed. Just pointing out that by that point he had already left Kings Landing and was probably trying to figure out a way to get the Mad King off of the throne. So he would not have exactly been the first to know what the Mad King was up to. Plus he was kind of occupied with other matters.
Good points.

So in essence, the Starks died (Ned's brother and father) because they believed Lyanna had been taken hostage by the Targs, when in reality, it's almost a certainty that she ran away with her true love (Rheagar). And then Robert leads a rebellion against the Targs primarily over a woman that didn't love him in the first place. All the while, Rhaeager apparently had been plotting for a way to remove his mad father from the throne anyway. And by all accounts, it sure appears like Rhaegar would have been a good king.

That's pretty jacked up.
But at some point, Rhaegar had to have gone back to Kings Landing to fight for his father, right? Because when Ned talk to Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy he asks him "I expected to see you in Kings Landing, why weren't you there to defend your prince?"

It does get kinda hazy there because we also know at some point the Mountain killed lots of Targeryans and Martells, right? Not just in battle, but they killed pretty much anyone of nobility in Kings Landing.
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Prosperdick
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3:15p, 7/28/17
AG
How ironic would it be for Jon to sleep with Dany after his talk with Sam in season 1 that the reason he was still a virgin was his fear that if he slept with a stranger she might turn out to be his mother (of course in this case, his aunt).
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Dro07
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In reply to Prosperdick • 3:18p, 7/28/17
AG
That's a risk I am sure he is willing to take after seeing her
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Aggie Joe 93
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In reply to Prosperdick • 3:19p, 7/28/17
AG
friscodick said:
How ironic would it be for Jon to sleep with Dany after his talk with Sam in season 1 that the reason he was still a virgin was his fear that if he slept with a stranger she might turn out to be his mother (of course in this case, his aunt).

Ha! Nice recall. Now I'm convinced it will happen.
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wangus12
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In reply to smokeythebear • 3:20p, 7/28/17
AG
smokeythebear said:
Urban Ag said:
Wes97 said:
M.C. Swag said:
haha yea, and....?
Some people were asking what Rheagar was doing when the Starks were killed. Just pointing out that by that point he had already left Kings Landing and was probably trying to figure out a way to get the Mad King off of the throne. So he would not have exactly been the first to know what the Mad King was up to. Plus he was kind of occupied with other matters.
Good points.

So in essence, the Starks died (Ned's brother and father) because they believed Lyanna had been taken hostage by the Targs, when in reality, it's almost a certainty that she ran away with her true love (Rheagar). And then Robert leads a rebellion against the Targs primarily over a woman that didn't love him in the first place. All the while, Rhaeager apparently had been plotting for a way to remove his mad father from the throne anyway. And by all accounts, it sure appears like Rhaegar would have been a good king.

That's pretty jacked up.
But at some point, Rhaegar had to have gone back to Kings Landing to fight for his father, right? Because when Ned talk to Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy he asks him "I expected to see you in Kings Landing, why weren't you there to defend your prince?"

It does get kinda hazy there because we also know at some point the Mountain killed lots of Targeryans and Martells, right? Not just in battle, but they killed pretty much anyone of nobility in Kings Landing.
Rhaegar went from the ToJ to KL, took control of the Targaryen army and marched north to the Trident where he died fighting Robert during the Battle of the Trident.

The only Kingsguard left in KL was Jaime Lannister. 3 went with the Targ army and Rhaegar and 3 stayed at the ToJ with Lyanna
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Wes97
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In reply to smokeythebear • 3:20p, 7/28/17
AG
Urban Ag has it all pretty much on point.


Oh and I believe in the books Ned said both that "I looked for you on the Trident but you were not there" (the Trident is where Robert fought and killed Rheagar) and then also said "I looked for you in Kings Landing and you were not there" which is more in reference to them not being there to protect the Mad King, not Rheagar.
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Urban Ag
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In reply to smokeythebear • 3:21p, 7/28/17
AG
I can't recall. Seem to remember that essentially Rhaeagr lead the Targ forces in the field with Ser Barristan but I am pretty sure the rebellion lasted a year or more so surely he returned to KL from time to time. But that comment from Ned is kind of strange because surely Ned knew that Rhaegar died on the Trident and was not at KL. Or maybe I just don't remember it correctly.
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Urban Ag
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In reply to Wes97 • 3:22p, 7/28/17
AG
Aha. That sounds right.
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Wes97
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3:27p, 7/28/17
AG
And in one of the Barristan chapters he remembers Rheagar telling him that after the rebellion was over that he was going to have to to deal with his father the Mad King.
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Rex Racer
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In reply to AgMarauder04 • 3:33p, 7/28/17
AG
AgMarauder04 said:
I did, and I specifically remember Lil Mormont talking about the "Stark in Winterfell."

Snow won't end up Warden/King of the North. Book it.
Pssst... Jon's mother was a Stark. That makes Jon one.
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smokeythebear
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In reply to Wes97 • 3:42p, 7/28/17
AG
Wes97 said:
And in one of the Barristan chapters he remembers Rheagar telling him that after the rebellion was over that he was going to have to to deal with his father the Mad King.
Ok so Rhaegar was honeymooning in the Tower of Joy when Brandon Stark came to Kings Landing to find his sister. Then the Mad King takes Brandon prisoner and summons Rickard Stark, just to kill them both. Rhaegar hears of this and hears that Robert and Ned are gathering forces to rebel so he goes to Kings Landing, rallies the troops, and marches up to the Trident to meet them in battle, thinking he'd put down the rebellion and then go home to strip his father of the throne. Robert kills Rhaegar (was Barriston Selmy there?) while Jamie Lannister just happened to be the only one left in Kings Landing with the Mad King. Once Robert's army (conveniently, with Tywin Lannister on his side) gets to the gate at Kings Landing, that's when Jamie stabs the Mad King in the back, which explains why people considered him acting in a deceitful way.

Then Robert takes the throne, says "good job Jamie", Tywin convinces him to marry his daughter, Cersi, and the Mountain is tasked with rounding up any remaining nobles and killing them. Meanwhile, Ned continues to look for his sister, which leads him to the Tower of Joy.

So Raegar really wasn't a bad dude, actually pretty cool. Jamie didn't actually do any fighting, which is a huge waste of his talents. And Robert was pretty much a jackass who totally forgot his purpose for going to war to begin with.

Is that right?
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to smokeythebear • 3:44p, 7/28/17
AG
Pretty much. Rhaegar was widely considered a good man which is precisely why it was theorized that he never 'actually kidnapped' lyanna. It wasn't in his character.
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RDV-1992
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In reply to smokeythebear • 3:48p, 7/28/17
smokeythebear said:
Wes97 said:
And in one of the Barristan chapters he remembers Rheagar telling him that after the rebellion was over that he was going to have to to deal with his father the Mad King.
Ok so Rhaegar was honeymooning in the Tower of Joy when Brandon Stark came to Kings Landing to find his sister. Then the Mad King takes Brandon prisoner and summons Rickard Stark, just to kill them both. Rhaegar hears of this and hears that Robert and Ned are gathering forces to rebel so he goes to Kings Landing, rallies the troops, and marches up to the Trident to meet them in battle, thinking he'd put down the rebellion and then go home to strip his father of the throne. Robert kills Rhaegar (was Barriston Selmy there?) while Jamie Lannister just happened to be the only one left in Kings Landing with the Mad King. Once Robert's army (conveniently, with Tywin Lannister on his side) gets to the gate at Kings Landing, that's when Jamie stabs the Mad King in the back, which explains why people considered him acting in a deceitful way.

Then Robert takes the throne, says "good job Jamie", Tywin convinces him to marry his daughter, Cersi, and the Mountain is tasked with rounding up any remaining nobles and killing them. Meanwhile, Ned continues to look for his sister, which leads him to the Tower of Joy.

So Raegar really wasn't a bad dude, actually pretty cool. Jamie didn't actually do any fighting, which is a huge waste of his talents. And Robert was pretty much a jackass who totally forgot his purpose for going to war to begin with.

Is that right?
I think mostly right. Except the Lannisters arrived at the gates of Kings Landing before the rebel army, which at that point was being led by Ned (I guess Robert was somewhere else). The Mad King let the Lannisters in, and they turned on him, sacking the City. That's when Jaime killed the Mad King, because he was going to burn the city down. Shortly after he killed the king, Ned walked into the throne room & found Jaime sitting on the iron throne.
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3rdGen2015
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In reply to RDV-1992 • 3:49p, 7/28/17
AG
IIRC, Robert got injured in the Battle of the Trident
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JJxvi
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4:06p, 7/28/17
AG
Jon Connington was in charge of putting down the rebellion until he was defeated in the Battle of the Bells and Rheagar was in Dorne at the Tower of Joy presumably with Lyanna, and Kingsguards Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent, and Gerold Hightower. At that point Rheagar was basically recalled to King's Landing to lead the crown's forces up to the Battle of the Trident. Kingsguards Barristan Selmy, Jonothor Darry, and Lewyn Martell were at the Battle of the Trident, while Jaime Lannister stayed with the King. Ser Barristan was seriously injured and pardoned by Robert, the other two died. Robert was wounded, which meant Ned Stark went ahead of him to the capital and subsequently to the ToJ.
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Urban Ag
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In reply to smokeythebear • 4:10p, 7/28/17
AG
smokeythebear said:
Wes97 said:
And in one of the Barristan chapters he remembers Rheagar telling him that after the rebellion was over that he was going to have to to deal with his father the Mad King.
Ok so Rhaegar was honeymooning in the Tower of Joy when Brandon Stark came to Kings Landing to find his sister. Then the Mad King takes Brandon prisoner and summons Rickard Stark, just to kill them both. Rhaegar hears of this and hears that Robert and Ned are gathering forces to rebel so he goes to Kings Landing, rallies the troops, and marches up to the Trident to meet them in battle, thinking he'd put down the rebellion and then go home to strip his father of the throne. Robert kills Rhaegar (was Barriston Selmy there?) while Jamie Lannister just happened to be the only one left in Kings Landing with the Mad King. Once Robert's army (conveniently, with Tywin Lannister on his side) gets to the gate at Kings Landing, that's when Jamie stabs the Mad King in the back, which explains why people considered him acting in a deceitful way.

Then Robert takes the throne, says "good job Jamie", Tywin convinces him to marry his daughter, Cersi, and the Mountain is tasked with rounding up any remaining nobles and killing them. Meanwhile, Ned continues to look for his sister, which leads him to the Tower of Joy.

So Raegar really wasn't a bad dude, actually pretty cool. Jamie didn't actually do any fighting, which is a huge waste of his talents. And Robert was pretty much a jackass who totally forgot his purpose for going to war to begin with.

Is that right?

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Brian Earl Spilner
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4:23p, 7/28/17
AG
Barristan Selmy vs Arthur Dayne, who wins?
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RDV-1992
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:32p, 7/28/17
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Barristan Selmy vs Arthur Dayne, who wins?
Good question. I think maybe the sword of the morning, because during the rebellion he was younger than Selmy.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:40p, 7/28/17
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Barristan Selmy vs Arthur Dayne, who wins?


I'd guess neither. They could very well wind up killing each other. Dayne might have a slight edge because he's younger, but Selmy is very experienced and talented.
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wangus12
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4:56p, 7/28/17
AG
I always considered Dayne to be better than Selmy, albeit not by much. Probably just the way I picture it in my mind.
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RDV-1992
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6:28p, 7/28/17
Just going through this conversation I'm surprised at how much of the GOT storyline that I've forgotten. Its been years since I read the books. Perhaps I should re-read. But I'm loath to give that much time to the books - mostly because I'm irritated with George RR Martin for holding us hostage. He's acted like a child - procrastinating and avoiding the writing IMO. Some days I don't want to go to work. But part of being an adult is showing up every day, regardless of where you really want to be or what you really want to be doing. That said, the books are really really good. So maybe I'll give them another read.

PS - please forgive me for this thread derail. I've really enjoyed following it & the overall discussion of the show & story.
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AgMarauder04
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6:35p, 7/28/17
AG
This thread really makes me hope we get a Robert's Rebellion on HBO as one of the spinoffs.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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6:36p, 7/28/17
AG
Random thought/theory:

Sam will give Heartsbane to Ser Jorah, who will eventually kill Tarly with his own sword.
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benchmark
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 7:52p, 7/28/17
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Random thought/theory:

Sam will give Heartsbane to Ser Jorah, who will eventually kill Tarly with his own sword.
Wouldn't that be Karma? I like the way you think!
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Texags is garbage
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7:58p, 7/28/17
I'm curious as to why Tyrion didn't verify who was running the show in the North before planning two separate attacks on opposite coasts of Westeros. Was there something I missed? Feel like you'd want to pin down who the North was loyal to before launching an assault on Casterly Rock and laying siege on King's Landing.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 9:35p, 7/28/17
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Barristan Selmy vs Arthur Dayne, who wins?


Dayne without a doubt for me.
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Texags is garbage
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:09p, 7/28/17
aggie1906 said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Barristan Selmy vs Arthur Dayne, who wins?


Dayne without a doubt for me.
Damn that would be a good fight though with both of them in their prime.

Don't think there's enough screen time to make it happen, but would be sweet to see the 'Sword of the Morning' (Dawn) in the fight against White Walkers. No idea if the show addressed how Ned returned it to Dayne's sister.
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OnlyForNow
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10:19p, 7/28/17
AG
So Ned was obviously an awesome swordsman no? But I don't remember him being talked about like that.
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The Debt
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 10:29p, 7/28/17
OnlyForNow said:
So Ned was obviously an awesome swordsman no? But I don't remember him being talked about like that.

He was probably top 8 dueler in Roberts Rebellion. (I say dueler because Robert used a large hammer and was better than ned.)

1. Dayne
2. Selmy
3. Jaime
4. Hightower
5. Smiling Knight
6. Robert
7. Rheagar Targaryen
8. Ned
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RDV-1992
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 10:30p, 7/28/17
OnlyForNow said:
So Ned was obviously an awesome swordsman no? But I don't remember him being talked about like that.
I think that he was very very good. Maybe on the verge of great. But not great, like the Sword of Morning, or Barristan Selmy were.

Because he was humble, and just fought to achieve an objective versus for some other reason, folks might not have known how good he was.

I also think that Robert was very good. He killed Rhaegar, who was also supposedly very good. He also loved fighting - a very different personality than Ned's.

I know that this is an imaginary world. But think about Westeros if Ned had taken the throne versus Robert. That would have improved, and saved, thousands and thousands of lives.
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OnlyForNow
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In reply to The Debt • 10:33p, 7/28/17
AG
Except that Ned ended up killed Dwayne and Hightower
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Texags is garbage • 10:33p, 7/28/17
another angry ag said:
I'm curious as to why Tyrion didn't verify who was running the show in the North before planning two separate attacks on opposite coasts of Westeros. Was there something I missed? Feel like you'd want to pin down who the North was loyal to before launching an assault on Casterly Rock and laying siege on King's Landing.


I'd imagine because the North had been a mess for years. The Boltons only started to get the overt support of the largest Northern houses in season 6, and fighting with Robb had drained their manpower. That and they'd have to get to the Riverlands on foot before they could reach Casterly Rock or King's Landing.
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The Debt
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 10:35p, 7/28/17
OnlyForNow said:
Except that Ned ended up killed Dwayne and Hightower

7 on 3. And Dayne was killed by turning his back on Howland Reed, who was thought dead.
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ChipFTAC01
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In reply to AgMarauder04 • 10:45p, 7/28/17
AG
Pretty sure HBO has come straight out and said the spinoff won't be directly related to the characters in the show. So no Robert's Rebellion. More world building, historical record.
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