It appears to have failed. To get the Dornish back in the fray would require introducing some new character so I don't think it happens. We're running out of time/episodes rapidly. I think Dorne is done.

HBO has had a pretty daunting task in closing arcs/characters. It's not perfect but they have done a pretty good with it.

Urban Ag said:

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It appears to have failed. To get the Dornish back in the fray would require introducing some new character so I don't think it happens. We're running out of time/episodes rapidly. I think Dorne is done.

HBO has had a pretty daunting task in closing arcs/characters. It's not perfect but they have done a pretty good with it.

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yeah or they travel overland instead but who is in charge? i think it's a done storyline as well except for whatever fate awaits Ellaria and Tyene which won't be pretty.

Dany was going to hit KL with Tyrells and Martells....now she needs a different plan - the Vale army perhaps in exchange for help when the WW come? Could put LF in play here. Jon sends LF and the Vale army down while prepping weapons for the WW at Dragonstone. No one is really in charge in the Stormlands that we know of now - its there for the taking. I mean in the books it's the Conningtons and Aegon but again we don't have those characters. I think they are leaving it out of the story. Same for Riverrun now - nobody in charge really.

Meanwhile the Unsullied and Dothraki still take Casterly Rock which seriously would be won in a day.

Then all thats really left to deal with is the Iron Born fleet...leaving the battle in the north with the army of the dead for season 7?

Speaking of Littlefinger, I have watched the last episode twice and I can't figure out what angle he was trying to play when he approached Jon.

He goes through a lot of stuff:

- He delivered Ned's bones as a good gesture
- He mentions he loved Catelyn
- He brings up Catelyn not liking Jon, but she underestimated him
- He says he wanted to introduce himself properly
- He then tells Jon he should thank him for saving him
- Says he isn't an enemy to Jon
- Throws out he loves Sansa like he loved Catelyn

I just don't quite get what it was he was trying to accomplish here. Was he trying to sweet talk Jon and get him to trust him? Why would he throw out loving Catelyn and Sansa then? He would have to know that wouldn't go over well.

I think LF is trying to figure out his angle. He undoubtedly thought John would be dead and Sansa Queen in the North.

He's quick, so he'll be up to no good asap, but I don't think he has a hard plan yet.

I have been banking on LF having something really big up his sleeve, none of us see coming, then unveil here at the end. But I've played it back and fourth in my head so many times now and got nothing. All of his power is held up by lies and deception. He is out of allies. The Knights of the Vale hate him. Sansa hates him. When/if Arya shows up, she hates him. Jon clearly doesn't like him. The only reason he is even still alive is he delivered the Knights of the Vale to save Jon's ass but that is not going to be enough to save him. I don't think he survives much longer. Literally all Sansa has to do is tell Royce the truth about how Lysa died and he's a dead man.

Without getting too far back into this discussion, I really think the majority of people misunderstand LF. He's ambitious, no doubt, but he also has never known a family and he's never been really "respected" by those he interacts with. I'm not really big on Harry Potter, but from what I recall, everyone hated Snape at the beginning, thinking he was the bad guy. Now I'm not saying LF is necessarily good, but he did love Cat and really considered her the closest thing he ever had to family. The only reason he despised Ned was because Cat chose Ned over him.

Personally, I think he has no beef with Jon and is actually quite impressed by him. Of course he wants to be in charge instead of Jon, but since Jon is in charge, there's no reason to not try and make peace with him. I think Jon showed a lot of Ned's rashness when he reacted the way he did. Jon has plenty of reasons to be upset with LF, but a more seasoned leader would have taken that opportunity to build a bridge there.

Surely, there's a part of LF that dreams of a different world where he could be buried in the crypt under Winterfell with a plaque talking about the great things he was able to accomplish in life. But Jon's reaction was a quick reminder about LF's place in the world.

CapCityAg89 said:

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Aegon isn't fake in the books. I'm guessing he dies though as he didn't even make a mention in the show.

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I don't think he's a real Targ

Urban Ag said:

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I have been banking on LF having something really big up his sleeve, none of us see coming, then unveil here at the end. But I've played it back and fourth in my head so many times now and got nothing. All of his power is held up by lies and deception. He is out of allies. The Knights of the Vale hate him. Sansa hates him. When/if Arya shows up, she hates him. Jon clearly doesn't like him. The only reason he is even still alive is he delivered the Knights of the Vale to save Jon's ass but that is not going to be enough to save him. I don't think he survives much longer. Literally all Sansa has to do is tell Royce the truth about how Lysa died and he's a dead man.

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See but there's more to it than that. In the Vale, LF and Sansa really began to build some kind of relationship based on understanding and "trust". She grew some agency and began to realize she can learn a lot from him. But the show has a real problem compared to the books. In the books, it isn't Sansa that LF marries off to Ramsey, but a cousin that he pretends is Arya, correct? So in the books, Sansa wouldn't hate LF. Fast forward to now, you'd assume the Vale still came in to save Jon in the BoB, except maybe Sansa now is very thankful to LF and perhaps considering marrying him to form a very valuable alliance. So you can see why there's this gaping plot hole in the show version as to why he is still around when everyone hates him, because perhaps everyone doesn't hate him if not for the shortcuts taken in the show.

bthomas98 said:

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aggie1906 said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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One more - then the Night King pulls off his face and it's Hot Pie.

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And then Hot Pie pulls off his face and it's Robert Baratheon who faked his own death and all those people died for nothing.

You can really go anywhere in a universe where people can be brought back to life and switch faces.

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And then Robert takes off his ruby necklace and turns into hundreds of year old Aegon then rides off on a skeleton dragon.

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Then zoom out to a young George RR Martin playing with a snowglobe

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Then alternating shots of Martin's face and the globe, then....black.

benchmark said:

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smokeythebear said:

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Without getting too far back into this discussion, I really think the majority of people misunderstand LF. He's ambitious, no doubt, but he also has never known a family and he's never been really "respected" by those he interacts with. I'm not really big on Harry Potter, but from what I recall, everyone hated Snape at the beginning, thinking he was the bad guy. Now I'm not saying LF is necessarily good, but he did love Cat and really considered her the closest thing he ever had to family. The only reason he despised Ned was because Cat chose Ned over him.

Personally, I think he has no beef with Jon and is actually quite impressed by him. Of course he wants to be in charge instead of Jon, but since Jon is in charge, there's no reason to not try and make peace with him. I think Jon showed a lot of Ned's rashness when he reacted the way he did. Jon has plenty of reasons to be upset with LF, but a more seasoned leader would have taken that opportunity to build a bridge there.

Surely, there's a part of LF that dreams of a different world where he could be buried in the crypt under Winterfell with a plaque talking about the great things he was able to accomplish in life. But Jon's reaction was a quick reminder about LF's place in the world.

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LF stated quite clearly his end game was to rule the 7 kingdom. Nothing touchy-feely about it.

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Same with Dany but no one thinks of her ambitions as malicious.

We are no longer in the books. The books don't matter. In the show and the books, LF was teaching Sansa the game. Fine. She may have even, at some point, had some trust in him, fine.

Then..................LF marries her off to a psycho-torture freak who's dad turned against their house, helped murder her brother and mother, and now resides in her ancestral home. Hmmmm........

Sansa bloody hates him. She used him to bring the Knights of the Vale north. Nothing more. He's going to get his soon.

Urban Ag said:

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It appears to have failed. To get the Dornish back in the fray would require introducing some new character so I don't think it happens. We're running out of time/episodes rapidly. I think Dorne is done.

HBO has had a pretty daunting task in closing arcs/characters. It's not perfect but they have done a pretty good with it.

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Here's a thought, as far as the show is concerned. Randyll Tarly will side with Olenna and Dany, take charge of the Highgarden army and somehow bring the Dornish army into the fold. Only Yara's iron fleet was destroyed. Didn't see any of the Dornish ships that sailed from Essos with Dany. Nor any of the ships she stole from Slaver's bay.

I guess since Grey Worm was busy getting busy, none of those ships left Dragonstone. So Euron took out probably the majority of Dany's ships, but I bet Dorne still has more to offer. It still remains to be seen how the Unsullied get to Casterly Rock. They probably will still sail around Dorne.

I almost typed that they could pick up Reek on the way, but now I have a feeling he'll make it back to Dragonstone just in time to reunite with Jon Snow (oh snap)

Does Arya know LF set up Ned?

I don't remember, but I don't think so. He's never been on her list, has he?

That doesn't mean she won't add him very soon.

benchmark said:

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smokeythebear said:

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benchmark said:

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smokeythebear said:

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Without getting too far back into this discussion, I really think the majority of people misunderstand LF. He's ambitious, no doubt, but he also has never known a family and he's never been really "respected" by those he interacts with. I'm not really big on Harry Potter, but from what I recall, everyone hated Snape at the beginning, thinking he was the bad guy. Now I'm not saying LF is necessarily good, but he did love Cat and really considered her the closest thing he ever had to family. The only reason he despised Ned was because Cat chose Ned over him.

Personally, I think he has no beef with Jon and is actually quite impressed by him. Of course he wants to be in charge instead of Jon, but since Jon is in charge, there's no reason to not try and make peace with him. I think Jon showed a lot of Ned's rashness when he reacted the way he did. Jon has plenty of reasons to be upset with LF, but a more seasoned leader would have taken that opportunity to build a bridge there.

Surely, there's a part of LF that dreams of a different world where he could be buried in the crypt under Winterfell with a plaque talking about the great things he was able to accomplish in life. But Jon's reaction was a quick reminder about LF's place in the world.

---

LF stated quite clearly his end game was to rule the 7 kingdom. Nothing touchy-feely about it.

---

Same with Dany but no one thinks of her ambitions as malicious.

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Dany has balanced that with setting people free, caring about the people. LF only helps if it furthers his game.

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Well the two most hated characters in the show were killed because of LF. Not to mention he saved Sansa from Lysa who was going insane.

The next episode is titled " The Queen's Justice." I expect that we see our three queens each dealing out some justice on Sunday. My predication is Sansa takes out Little Finger for his past crimes against her father, Cersie attempts to take out the snakes (I still see Bron saving the one snake he has the hots for but it might be a bit of a stretch), and Dany has to pass judgment on Melisandre.

smokeythebear said:

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benchmark said:

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smokeythebear said:

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benchmark said:

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smokeythebear said:

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Without getting too far back into this discussion, I really think the majority of people misunderstand LF. He's ambitious, no doubt, but he also has never known a family and he's never been really "respected" by those he interacts with. I'm not really big on Harry Potter, but from what I recall, everyone hated Snape at the beginning, thinking he was the bad guy. Now I'm not saying LF is necessarily good, but he did love Cat and really considered her the closest thing he ever had to family. The only reason he despised Ned was because Cat chose Ned over him.

Personally, I think he has no beef with Jon and is actually quite impressed by him. Of course he wants to be in charge instead of Jon, but since Jon is in charge, there's no reason to not try and make peace with him. I think Jon showed a lot of Ned's rashness when he reacted the way he did. Jon has plenty of reasons to be upset with LF, but a more seasoned leader would have taken that opportunity to build a bridge there.

Surely, there's a part of LF that dreams of a different world where he could be buried in the crypt under Winterfell with a plaque talking about the great things he was able to accomplish in life. But Jon's reaction was a quick reminder about LF's place in the world.

---

LF stated quite clearly his end game was to rule the 7 kingdom. Nothing touchy-feely about it.

---

Same with Dany but no one thinks of her ambitions as malicious.

---

Dany has balanced that with setting people free, caring about the people. LF only helps if it furthers his game.

---

Well the two most hated characters in the show were killed because of LF. Not to mention he saved Sansa from Lysa who was going insane.

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LF killed the two Sand Snakes? Damn, dude moves fast.

smokeythebear said:

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benchmark said:

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smokeythebear said:

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benchmark said:

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smokeythebear said:

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Without getting too far back into this discussion, I really think the majority of people misunderstand LF. He's ambitious, no doubt, but he also has never known a family and he's never been really "respected" by those he interacts with. I'm not really big on Harry Potter, but from what I recall, everyone hated Snape at the beginning, thinking he was the bad guy. Now I'm not saying LF is necessarily good, but he did love Cat and really considered her the closest thing he ever had to family. The only reason he despised Ned was because Cat chose Ned over him.

Personally, I think he has no beef with Jon and is actually quite impressed by him. Of course he wants to be in charge instead of Jon, but since Jon is in charge, there's no reason to not try and make peace with him. I think Jon showed a lot of Ned's rashness when he reacted the way he did. Jon has plenty of reasons to be upset with LF, but a more seasoned leader would have taken that opportunity to build a bridge there.

Surely, there's a part of LF that dreams of a different world where he could be buried in the crypt under Winterfell with a plaque talking about the great things he was able to accomplish in life. But Jon's reaction was a quick reminder about LF's place in the world.

---

LF stated quite clearly his end game was to rule the 7 kingdom. Nothing touchy-feely about it.

---

Same with Dany but no one thinks of her ambitions as malicious.

---

Dany has balanced that with setting people free, caring about the people. LF only helps if it furthers his game.

---

Well the two most hated characters in the show were killed because of LF. Not to mention he saved Sansa from Lysa who was going insane.

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He said every decision I make is based on getting me on the Iron Throne. Dany has pushed her desire to rule to the side several times to help the people. Not saying LF is ALL bad...just 99.9% bad. LOL

Maybe this has been addressed already, but during the Euron vs. Yara battle, did anyone get the impression they were watching Benny Hill footage with the use of fastforward in editing?

FightinTexasAg15 said:

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Speaking of Littlefinger, I have watched the last episode twice and I can't figure out what angle he was trying to play when he approached Jon.

He goes through a lot of stuff:

- He delivered Ned's bones as a good gesture
- He mentions he loved Catelyn
- He brings up Catelyn not liking Jon, but she underestimated him
- He says he wanted to introduce himself properly
- He then tells Jon he should thank him for saving him
- Says he isn't an enemy to Jon
- Throws out he loves Sansa like he loved Catelyn

I just don't quite get what it was he was trying to accomplish here. Was he trying to sweet talk Jon and get him to trust him? Why would he throw out loving Catelyn and Sansa then? He would have to know that wouldn't go over well.

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I think he was trying to provoke Jon, to further drive a wedge between him and Sansa.

Urban Ag said:

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Dude, LF is pure evil. What more evidence do you need?

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how many people did he rape? How many people did he enslave?

Oh he killed nobles and pitted houses against each other, true evil!

smokeythebear said:

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Without getting too far back into this discussion, I really think the majority of people misunderstand LF. He's ambitious, no doubt, but he also has never known a family and he's never been really "respected" by those he interacts with. I'm not really big on Harry Potter, but from what I recall, everyone hated Snape at the beginning, thinking he was the bad guy. Now I'm not saying LF is necessarily good, but he did love Cat and really considered her the closest thing he ever had to family. The only reason he despised Ned was because Cat chose Ned over him.

Personally, I think he has no beef with Jon and is actually quite impressed by him. Of course he wants to be in charge instead of Jon, but since Jon is in charge, there's no reason to not try and make peace with him. I think Jon showed a lot of Ned's rashness when he reacted the way he did. Jon has plenty of reasons to be upset with LF, but a more seasoned leader would have taken that opportunity to build a bridge there.

Surely, there's a part of LF that dreams of a different world where he could be buried in the crypt under Winterfell with a plaque talking about the great things he was able to accomplish in life. But Jon's reaction was a quick reminder about LF's place in the world.

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LF has told us what he wants: everything. His goal is to be the ruler of the seven kingdoms with Sansa at his side. Up until the end of season 6, he thought he had the Vale and the North via Sansa, which would have set him up well to take on Cersei. Now he's trying to split up Jon and Sansa to get that back.

Javelina said:

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I don't get the feeling the Tarly's are going to side with Highgarden.

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Tarly did not respond to the offer of Warden of the South..that may be the icing

smokeythebear said:

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benchmark said:

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smokeythebear said:

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Without getting too far back into this discussion, I really think the majority of people misunderstand LF. He's ambitious, no doubt, but he also has never known a family and he's never been really "respected" by those he interacts with. I'm not really big on Harry Potter, but from what I recall, everyone hated Snape at the beginning, thinking he was the bad guy. Now I'm not saying LF is necessarily good, but he did love Cat and really considered her the closest thing he ever had to family. The only reason he despised Ned was because Cat chose Ned over him.

Personally, I think he has no beef with Jon and is actually quite impressed by him. Of course he wants to be in charge instead of Jon, but since Jon is in charge, there's no reason to not try and make peace with him. I think Jon showed a lot of Ned's rashness when he reacted the way he did. Jon has plenty of reasons to be upset with LF, but a more seasoned leader would have taken that opportunity to build a bridge there.

Surely, there's a part of LF that dreams of a different world where he could be buried in the crypt under Winterfell with a plaque talking about the great things he was able to accomplish in life. But Jon's reaction was a quick reminder about LF's place in the world.

---

LF stated quite clearly his end game was to rule the 7 kingdom. Nothing touchy-feely about it.

---

Same with Dany but no one thinks of her ambitions as malicious.

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She's not doing it secretly by lying to people and conspiring against them behind their backs.

ok_ag95 said:

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Does Arya know LF set up Ned?

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I don't remember him being on the list...

nikator said:

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The Debt said:

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Urban Ag said:

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Dude, LF is pure evil. What more evidence do you need?

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how many people did he rape? How many people did he enslave?

Oh he killed nobles and pitted houses against each other, true evil!

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His actions in getting Jon Arryn murdered and then lying to Cat about the knife belonging to Tyrion helped kick start the war of the 5 kings...so a lot of that blood is on his hands

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Oh he lied. *gasp* he is satan incarnate