Mid-week poll --
Who are your top 3 hottest chicks on GoT?
My list:
1. Bad puuzy
2. Margaery
3. Danaerys
Who are your top 3 hottest chicks on GoT?
My list:
1. Bad puuzy
2. Margaery
3. Danaerys
Game of Thrones - Season 7
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Last: 6 yr ago by Definitely Not A Cop
benchmark said:Maybe the Dothraki get it as a reward. Terrain seems similar to their home....SpreadsheetAg said:
So with all the Martell's gone (and the sands, uggghhh) who has the most legit claim to Dorne now?
Some cousin? An Yronwood?
I like this idea!
He lied with the intent of driving two of the biggest houses of the realm to war...so yeah he is a dickThe Debt said:nikator said:His actions in getting Jon Arryn murdered and then lying to Cat about the knife belonging to Tyrion helped kick start the war of the 5 kings...so a lot of that blood is on his handsThe Debt said:how many people did he rape? How many people did he enslave?Urban Ag said:
Dude, LF is pure evil. What more evidence do you need?
Oh he killed nobles and pitted houses against each other, true evil!
Oh he lied. *gasp* he is satan incarnate
---------------
"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
I don't understand the continuous misconception of LF. I know GRRM has crafted a tale with nebulous characters of good and evil where good guys act bad and bad guys act good....but Littlefinger is not 1 of them. He is pure, unadulterated, villain.
Even his "good" actions were entirely motivated for selfish reasons. He never did anything out of sheer goodwill, nor has he truly sacrificed anything for the sole benefit of the other. Killing Joffrey helped Sansa, sure, but it also helped him sow seeds of discord and put himself in a position to effectively trade Sansa. He didn't come to Sansas rescue until he could manipulate Jeffrey's death and pin it on another innocent man (Tyrion). And coming to the aid at the BoB has yet to play out but it's obvious he's trying to establish a credit score of "loyalty" from Sansa/Jon for an eventual power play down the line.
Listen, I get it, Littlefinger has mad game...but he is hardcore villain. Every action was entirely dictated by whether it helped or hurt his ascent. Just stop with the LF is a good guy schtick.
- He concocted the false letter sent to Catelyn Stark accusing the Lannisters of poisoning Jon Arryn, when in fact it was Littlefinger himself.
- He killed Lysa in cold blood to supplant her authority in the Vail
- He setup Ned
Even his "good" actions were entirely motivated for selfish reasons. He never did anything out of sheer goodwill, nor has he truly sacrificed anything for the sole benefit of the other. Killing Joffrey helped Sansa, sure, but it also helped him sow seeds of discord and put himself in a position to effectively trade Sansa. He didn't come to Sansas rescue until he could manipulate Jeffrey's death and pin it on another innocent man (Tyrion). And coming to the aid at the BoB has yet to play out but it's obvious he's trying to establish a credit score of "loyalty" from Sansa/Jon for an eventual power play down the line.
Listen, I get it, Littlefinger has mad game...but he is hardcore villain. Every action was entirely dictated by whether it helped or hurt his ascent. Just stop with the LF is a good guy schtick.
The Debt said:ok_ag95 said:
Does Arya know LF set up Ned?
LF didn't set up Ned, the Cercei made a deal with Janos Slynt. LF tried to get Ned to make that deal first instead, Ned said no. Ned couldn't be saved.
Agreed...I guess I'm just referring to the part where LF holds a knife to his throat and said I told you I couldn't be trusted..... or something like that.
Couldn't remember if Arya knew that or not.
People make a great point that he's not on the list.
Arya was at her dancing lesson when that went down.
Not badBrian Earl Spilner said:
Mid-week poll --
Who are your top 3 hottest chicks on GoT?
My list:
1. Bad puuzy
2. Margaery
3. Danaerys
I would say
1. Marge
2. Bad pooz
3. tie Robs Wife-Missandei
nikator said:He lied with the intent of driving two of the biggest houses of the realm to war...so yeah he is a dickThe Debt said:nikator said:His actions in getting Jon Arryn murdered and then lying to Cat about the knife belonging to Tyrion helped kick start the war of the 5 kings...so a lot of that blood is on his handsThe Debt said:how many people did he rape? How many people did he enslave?Urban Ag said:
Dude, LF is pure evil. What more evidence do you need?
Oh he killed nobles and pitted houses against each other, true evil!
Oh he lied. *gasp* he is satan incarnate
Varys supported the targaryen restoration by propping up Viserys, which would mean both continents at war.
LF starting sht between two houses in Westeros under Robert is childsplay in comparison. It only escalated because Cercei and Lansell killed Robert.
Really, LF is not that bad of a guy. He only murdered Jon Arryn because he once told Lysa her butt looked big. He was really trying to help Ned (just forget he was obsessed with Ned's wife his entire life). And he didn't murder Lysa, he was simply protecting Sansa. And speaking of Sansa, it's not like LF knew that Ramsay had a torture/rape fetish and liked to make things out of human skin, I mean sure, he literally is in the business of knowing everything about everyone all the time but mistakes happen! Don't hate the player hate the game.
Well done.
The fact so many of you don't see how evil he is pays credit to his deceitfulness. He is playing the long con to get himself on the throne. He knows he can't do it by force, so he does it through intrigue and deceit. He does nothing altruistically, and is willing to screw anyone over to get what he wants (i.e. giving Sansa to Ramsay).
The Debt said:ok_ag95 said:
Does Arya know LF set up Ned?
LF didn't set up Ned, the Cercei made a deal with Janos Slynt. LF tried to get Ned to make that deal first instead, Ned said no. Ned couldn't be saved.
That isn't at all what happened. Ned asked LF to help him get the support of the city guard, bc they were loyal to who paid the coin. LF said yes, then had the city guard back Cersei.
Malcolm52 said:Not badBrian Earl Spilner said:
Mid-week poll --
Who are your top 3 hottest chicks on GoT?
My list:
1. Bad puuzy
2. Margaery
3. Danaerys
I would say
1. Marge
2. Bad pooz
3. tie Robs Wife-Missandei
No order
Missandei
Myranda
Daenerys
Mia
Adding to the LF evil list.
- Gave one of his *****s to Joffry to torture/kill.
- Confessed to doing unimaginable things to his girls for past clients.
- Killed the fool who grabbed Sansa in KL to flee.
Pretty sure there's only one person, cough*Debt*cough, who thinks LF is just misunderstood.Ogre09 said:
The fact so many of you don't see how evil he is pays credit to his deceitfulness. He is playing the long con to get himself on the throne. He knows he can't do it by force, so he does it through intrigue and deceit. He does nothing altruistically, and is willing to screw anyone over to get what he wants (i.e. giving Sansa to Ramsay).
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Mid-week poll --
Who are your top 3 hottest chicks on GoT?
My list:
1. Bad puuzy
2. Margaery
3. Danaerys
Daenerys
Margery
Doreah (rip)
Urban Ag said:
I have been banking on LF having something really big up his sleeve, none of us see coming, then unveil here at the end. But I've played it back and fourth in my head so many times now and got nothing. All of his power is held up by lies and deception. He is out of allies. The Knights of the Vale hate him. Sansa hates him. When/if Arya shows up, she hates him. Jon clearly doesn't like him. The only reason he is even still alive is he delivered the Knights of the Vale to save Jon's ass but that is not going to be enough to save him. I don't think he survives much longer. Literally all Sansa has to do is tell Royce the truth about how Lysa died and he's a dead man.
If Sansa tells Royce the truth he'd probably want her head too since she was an accomplice to the crime. Unless you mean she tells the "truth".
All Sansa has to say is that LF threatened to kill her if she didn't go along with it. Then he sent off her to Winterfell to be tortured and raped by Ramsay Snow. What would he do? She was a scared teenager whose parents and brother had been murdered. She holds the cards. Not to mention that Royce is not really in a position to call for a Stark's head with a united North behind her.
Honestly think the only reason LF is still alive is Sansa needs to be sure the Vale stays committed to the North. She is playing the game that way.
Honestly think the only reason LF is still alive is Sansa needs to be sure the Vale stays committed to the North. She is playing the game that way.
1. Bad puss
2. Melisandre
3. I've got a soft spot for Ros
2. Melisandre
3. I've got a soft spot for Ros
Jaqen Hagar wasn't altruisticOgre09 said:
The fact so many of you don't see how evil he is pays credit to his deceitfulness. He is playing the long con to get himself on the throne. He knows he can't do it by force, so he does it through intrigue and deceit. He does nothing altruistically, and is willing to screw anyone over to get what he wants (i.e. giving Sansa to Ramsay).
Neither Sansa nor Arya are altruistic
The Hound isn't exactly altruistic (I guess he saved Sansa once and has recently attempted to feel remorse for his past deeds)
Jamie Lannister has done way worse things and killed many more men but everyone likes him now because he flirted with Brienne.
Bronn never did anything that wasn't in his own best interest either.
I don't see why all the hate for LF just because he has acted in his own self interest. Of course he wants to sit on the throne! Who doesn't?? What makes him different from other "bad guys" is that he doesn't ever do anything mean just to do mean things. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty, but ONLY when it is to serve a purpose. So he uses the tools he has to the best of his abilities and has been able to do a great job rising the ranks. I think that is admirable.
Ding.Ding.Quote:
Honestly think the only reason LF is still alive is Sansa needs to be sure the Vale stays committed to the North. She is playing the game that way.
Then why would LF even show up at the BoB? If he was so concerned about Sansa selling him out, then he was better off letting her and Jon die and keeping his alliance with Ramsay.Urban Ag said:
All Sansa has to say is that LF threatened to kill her if she didn't go along with it. Then he sent off her to Winterfell to be tortured and raped by Ramsay Snow. What would he do? She was a scared teenager whose parents and brother had been murdered. She holds the cards. Not to mention that Royce is not really in a position to call for a Stark's head with a united North behind her.
Honestly think the only reason LF is still alive is Sansa needs to be sure the Vale stays committed to the North. She is playing the game that way.
It just doesn't make sense that LF is wrapped around Sansa's finger. He's way too cunning for that. Sansa seriously considered his marriage proposal and I wouldn't be surprised if she changed her mind while Jon was gone.
He was counting on Jon getting killed in the BoB, the fact that Jon survived has kind of ruined his plans.smokeythebear said:Then why would LF even show up at the BoB? If he was so concerned about Sansa selling him out, then he was better off letting her and Jon die and keeping his alliance with Ramsay.Urban Ag said:
All Sansa has to say is that LF threatened to kill her if she didn't go along with it. Then he sent off her to Winterfell to be tortured and raped by Ramsay Snow. What would he do? She was a scared teenager whose parents and brother had been murdered. She holds the cards. Not to mention that Royce is not really in a position to call for a Stark's head with a united North behind her.
Honestly think the only reason LF is still alive is Sansa needs to be sure the Vale stays committed to the North. She is playing the game that way.
It just doesn't make sense that LF is wrapped around Sansa's finger. He's way too cunning for that. Sansa seriously considered his marriage proposal and I wouldn't be surprised if she changed her mind while Jon was gone.
You aren't supposed to 'admire' the Hound or Jamie. They're the epitome of 'grey' characters that GRRM has crafted to conflict the reader/viewer. You shouldn't admire their deeds but instead should 'cheer' for their redemption.smokeythebear said:Jaqen Hagar wasn't altruisticOgre09 said:
The fact so many of you don't see how evil he is pays credit to his deceitfulness. He is playing the long con to get himself on the throne. He knows he can't do it by force, so he does it through intrigue and deceit. He does nothing altruistically, and is willing to screw anyone over to get what he wants (i.e. giving Sansa to Ramsay).
Neither Sansa nor Arya are altruistic
The Hound isn't exactly altruistic (I guess he saved Sansa once and has recently attempted to feel remorse for his past deeds)
Jamie Lannister has done way worse things and killed many more men but everyone likes him now because he flirted with Brienne.
Bronn never did anything that wasn't in his own best interest either.
I don't see why all the hate for LF just because he has acted in his own self interest. Of course he wants to sit on the throne! Who doesn't?? What makes him different from other "bad guys" is that he doesn't ever do anything mean just to do mean things. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty, but ONLY when it is to serve a purpose. So he uses the tools he has to the best of his abilities and has been able to do a great job rising the ranks. I think that is admirable.
LF is nothing like either of them because he isn't on the path of redemption, nor is he even seeking it. The fact that he conducts 'evil' acts for a reason doesn't make him less of a villain than say...Joffrey. It makes him more of one. It makes him calculated, unpredictable, and more dangerous.
Now you can admire LF's ascension, but don't conflate that specific admiration to his overall character morals. For example, both Arya and LF kill, but Arya kills for 'justice' to those who specifically have wronged her, while LF kills for purely self gain. Ally or foe, LF would murder anyone he deemed as an impediment to his ultimate objective. The act of killing is the same, but the morals behind them are entirely different. See what I'm saying? If a poor man steals to feed his starving family and a rich man steals for the sake of being cheap, are they both equally bad? Stealing is wrong but motives make all the difference.
Edit: And I'll admit that Arya isn't a perfect comparison because she's certainly grey in her own ways. She's an example of a good guy (or girl) who has done bad things. Certainly not altruistic by any means. The truly evil characters and the truly altruistic ones are few and far between in GRRM's world. I would classify LF as truly evil and Jon or Sam as his antithesis on the opposite spectrum.
benchmark said:Pretty sure there's only one person, cough*Debt*cough, who thinks LF is just misunderstood.Ogre09 said:
The fact so many of you don't see how evil he is pays credit to his deceitfulness. He is playing the long con to get himself on the throne. He knows he can't do it by force, so he does it through intrigue and deceit. He does nothing altruistically, and is willing to screw anyone over to get what he wants (i.e. giving Sansa to Ramsay).
I don't think he is misunderstood. I just don't get all the fuss. He isn't nearly as evil as others around him, he is just smart enough to cover his tracks of his maneuvering.
If a stark set up opposing houses to weaken each other through war, killed bad people, grew in power, title, consolidated allies, you would say he is the best protagonist you've ever seen on tv.
Ah, but because LF is ambitious and comes from nothing he is a villain. He is Walter White.
We get it, you're a Littlefinger guy. At least I know never to trust you...The Debt said:benchmark said:Pretty sure there's only one person, cough*Debt*cough, who thinks LF is just misunderstood.Ogre09 said:
The fact so many of you don't see how evil he is pays credit to his deceitfulness. He is playing the long con to get himself on the throne. He knows he can't do it by force, so he does it through intrigue and deceit. He does nothing altruistically, and is willing to screw anyone over to get what he wants (i.e. giving Sansa to Ramsay).
I don't think he is misunderstood. I just don't get all the fuss. He isn't nearly as evil as others around him, he is just smart enough to cover his tracks of his maneuvering.
If a stark set up opposing houses to weaten each other through war, killed bad people, grew in power, title, consolidated allies, you would say he is the best protagonist you've ever seen on tv.
Ah, but because LF is ambitious and comes from nothing he is a villain.
So, debt, do you view Littlefinger as a protagonist in this story?
We talked about it upthread (lol in a 2000+ response thread) but none of the Starks know that Littlefinger betrayed Ned in the throne room and led to him being arrested, which was effectively his death sentence. He would be #1 on Aryas list if she knew and Sansa would never have trusted him even a little. Jon would have killed him by now.
The Hound was standing behind the throne when it happened. Tyrion should know since he was still working with Cersei, and Varys has to know. They'll find out.
The Hound was standing behind the throne when it happened. Tyrion should know since he was still working with Cersei, and Varys has to know. They'll find out.
I will be the first to admit I hope Cersei and Littlefinger end up croaking, but I appreciate their roles in the show. GOT is far from sunshine and rainbows. The dark, sinister, and manipulative have always had their place.
redline248 said:
So, debt, do you view Littlefinger as a protagonist in this story?
I don't think grrm has settled on a true "protagonist". Asoiaf is a morally ambiguous work, on purpose. Pov characters that act as protagonists have been killed off.
To answer you question: no. It's really just a question of who do you root for?
I am firmly in the three targaryen camp, but I'm hoping this investment won't end up with something as bland as queen Danerys. Tyrion, Sansa, or LF are intriguing finishes, those smell of GRRM. But if I were betting: King Jon and Queen Dany just to reward the plebs who care about the "protagonists".
In the books Sansa notes that LF never protected her from Joffrey, it was either Tyrion or the Hound.
The guy has been obsessed with Catelyn since he fostered with the Tully's (in the show he proposed to Cat when Ned's bones were being returned)...and now has transferred his creepy obsession to Sansa.
The show's Varys is different in the books. Season 1 of the show was close to the books but they took out the false Aegon storyline in the show and that leaves Varys' storyline a bit incoherent in the show and weakens his motivation of looking out for the commons. In the books he never really backs Viserys, he supports a pretender who has been educated and groomed to be a good king. Varys is no saint either - no master of whisperers ever really is.
But Littlefinger has entirely been consumed with his ambitions and does not care how many dead bodies he climbs over to get to the top, preferably with the target of his creepy obsession next to him and in his bed.
The guy has been obsessed with Catelyn since he fostered with the Tully's (in the show he proposed to Cat when Ned's bones were being returned)...and now has transferred his creepy obsession to Sansa.
The show's Varys is different in the books. Season 1 of the show was close to the books but they took out the false Aegon storyline in the show and that leaves Varys' storyline a bit incoherent in the show and weakens his motivation of looking out for the commons. In the books he never really backs Viserys, he supports a pretender who has been educated and groomed to be a good king. Varys is no saint either - no master of whisperers ever really is.
But Littlefinger has entirely been consumed with his ambitions and does not care how many dead bodies he climbs over to get to the top, preferably with the target of his creepy obsession next to him and in his bed.
---------------
"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
Littlefinger is both evil and has had the most impressive rise to power. He has dominated the game.
He's basically undefeated in 7 seasons - a consistent rise
He has completely outmaneuvered the moronic Starks every time, including when he provoked Jon into choking him - Ahhhhh the Starks....quick tempers...slow minds /season 1 callback
But his obsession with Cat/Sansa will probably be his downfall, and I hope it's a worthy scene when he dies
He's basically undefeated in 7 seasons - a consistent rise
He has completely outmaneuvered the moronic Starks every time, including when he provoked Jon into choking him - Ahhhhh the Starks....quick tempers...slow minds /season 1 callback
But his obsession with Cat/Sansa will probably be his downfall, and I hope it's a worthy scene when he dies
Well yea, a compelling story is only as good as its villains. DC comics is widely considered superior to Marvel comics because of the villains (cinema battle is a different story).But that's precisely why Game of Thrones is so awesome. GRRM has crafted brilliant antagonists that often 'win.'CFTXAG10 said:
I will be the first to admit I hope Cersei and Littlefinger end up croaking, but I appreciate their roles in the show. GOT is far from sunshine and rainbows. The dark, sinister, and manipulative have always had their place.
In the show I am predictingThe Debt said:redline248 said:
So, debt, do you view Littlefinger as a protagonist in this story?
I don't think grrm has settled on a true "protagonist". Asoiaf is a morally ambiguous work, on purpose. Pov characters that act as protagonists have been killed off.
To answer you question: no. It's really just a question of who do you root for?
I am firmly in the three targaryen camp, but I'm hoping this investment won't end up with something as bland as queen Danerys. Tyrion, Sansa, or LF are intriguing finishes, those smell of GRRM. But if I were betting: King Jon and Queen Dany just to reward the plebs who care about the "protagonists".
Gendry as lord of Storms End (the Baratheon line started with a ******* after all)
Tyrion as lord of the rock
Sam Tarly as lord of the Reach - there will be no need for a wall after the Others are done
Dany as queen, preggers with Jon Snow's baby
Jon dead after a climactic fight with the Knight's King.
Bran turned into a Tree, Sansa as Lady of Winterfell
I have a feeling that Dorne and the Vale never show up again in the show.
---------------
"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
"A man without a belly is like a house without a balcony"
- Old Turkish saying
Bran, Jon, Brienne, and Sam are all POV characters that cannot be interpreted as anything but protagonists. Jon is clearly the 'jesus' of his fable - died for sins and all that jazz.Quote:
I don't think grrm has settled on a true "protagonist". Asoiaf is a morally ambiguous work, on purpose. Pov characters that act as protagonists have been killed off.
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