My take on the Nymeria/Arya meeting was Arya asked her to come North but to Nymeria Arya is no longer a Stark. She is a Faceless man.

Ol Jock 99 said:

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They don't get angry, or aggressive which is what the testosterone would provide.

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Testosterone also provides basic strength, which is critical for medieval soldiers. They didn't cut them as adults; they cut them as young boys.

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I get that. But for centuries, foot soldiers were canon fodder. They lined up and shot at each other. A risk was the line would break if losses got too high. The benefit of the unsullied was they would never break from fear, regret, love and other emotions that also come from testosterone. They are not great one on one fighters - hence the Mereen problem. They are great as an army.

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That leaves Sansa as Queen of the North.

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At least until Bran shows up. Although he'd turn down the job because he is the TER

Euron is a necessary character because the "bad guys" need a strongman. A henchman to do the dirty work. It's a trope, but an effective one. He won't last all that long but he's necessary to move the plot along.

hunter2012 said:

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Also if all 3 major players meet each other it will be the first time. Tyrion has met both but the reunion will be awesome.

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Not real sure Tyrion is still a major player in a "big three" type capacity. He certainly has not seemed to be so far this season.

RDV-1992 said:

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CapCityAg89 said:

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Yea, I'm trying to figure out where the show is going with Dorne. They are one of the seven and supposedly have a great army untouched by the war of the five kings. Now they have no ruling family and not even the supposed ruling illegitimate daughters. If most of that army was still in Dorne, why did all the sand snakes go to Dragonstone only to turn back around? Just a bunch of disconnects right now.

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Its not explained in the show, but in the books Dorne is the weakest of the 7 kingdoms, with the fewest troops. They were eventually brought into the 7 kingdoms by marriage, not war. Aegon couldn't conquer them because they went guerrilla versus facing him in battle with a standing army.

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Book thread so you don't have to spoiler quote book facts.

I understand they're small, but they haven't been hit by huge battles for the last two years either as have the others. And it's those guerilla tactics I think Quintin was planning to exploit. I'm the book, the lost Targ (can't remember the name) landed in Dorne when he returned to Westeros. That would've made a better entry point for Dani too. im glad the sand snakes are gone, but the Dorne plot hole is a challenge for me still.

One other note about Jon and Dany. Jon's first love was "kissed by fire." Dany has literally been bathed by it.

Idk...it still doesn't make sense. How in the world would LF be the one to find some 'hidden clue' about Jon's parentage in the Winterfell crypt? He has hardly been there. I just can't imagine that he would stumble across something that no one else has. Also, I can't fathom what hard 'evidence' even exists to support it, nor can I understand why it's in the crypts of Winterfell.

And if LF already had prior knowledge of it, it makes even less sense. That information would have been far more damaging and effective if he disclosed it during Robert's reign as king. So there's no way he's held on to it for this long.

Idk, I don't see Jon's parentage being a problem. I think its a solution. He still has Northern blood. He's half Stark. He just also happens to be half Dragon...which I think solidifies my opinion that him and Dany are natural allies; both politically and emotionally.

AggieSouth06 said:

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Euron is a necessary character because the "bad guys" need a strongman. A henchman to do the dirty work. It's a trope, but an effective one. He won't last all that long but he's necessary to move the plot along.

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I disagree. I think he is going to naturally fit into the Joffrey/Ramsay role that everyone cheers every week for his death. I bet we see him do f'ed up stuff to Ellaria, Yara, and the Sand Snake the next couple of episodes.

On the point about Dany's fleet. It must have been divided so the Unsullied can get to the mainland. What I couldn't figure is if she planned to send them straight to the eastern shore and march to Casterly Rock, or sail around Dorne.

LHIOB said:

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My take on the Nymeria/Arya meeting was Arya asked her to come North but to Nymeria Arya is no longer a Stark. She is a Faceless man.

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The writers said in the post show that her saying "it's not you" is a reference to Ned saying something similar to Arya. Nymeria is no longer a domesticated animal and that's what Arya was referring to.

I like all the analysis of Westeros naval warfare but no thought of the logistics of two armies living on an island. Does Dragonstone have stables for the Dothraki horses? Where are they getting enough food for everyone? How will an army of light infantry take Casterly Rock with no seige weapons?

I think Warden in the North exists for a very practical reason. The North is nearly the size of all the other kingdoms combined. King's Landing is a long, long way away. Having some trustworthy to hold the North is more important due to the sheer size and distance.

Is everyone else completely dismissing the giant crossbow invention? We're all certain that three dragons will have three riders in the war against the WW, so Qyburn's plan will fail somehow?

Champ Bailey said:

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AggieSouth06 said:

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Euron is a necessary character because the "bad guys" need a strongman. A henchman to do the dirty work. It's a trope, but an effective one. He won't last all that long but he's necessary to move the plot along.

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I disagree. I think he is going to naturally fit into the Joffrey/Ramsay role that everyone cheers every week for his death. I bet we see him do f'ed up stuff to Ellaria, Yara, and the Sand Snake the next couple of episodes.

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That's kind of how I meant it. But I don't think he makes it out of this season. Next season will be human v. winter, so I think we'll have a lot of the intra-species conflict wrapped up this year. Just a guess based on number of remaining episodes.

Great episode. It made several things pretty clear to me on how the story is going to progress from here.

Cercei/King's Landing
At the start of the season it's blatantly obvious that Cercei is woefully outgunned, big time, and that's not even counting the North and the Vale joining Dany. As Jamie stated, they need allies, powerful allies. Enter Euron, who has now taken out the command structure for Dorne. This move doesn't take Dorne off the table but it certainly causes problems in getting their army mobilized and marching north. Enter Randal Tarly. In the books, he is essentially the Lannister's reigning general in the Riverlands. He is feared and respected. This essentially takes Highgarten out of the picture if the Tarly's turn against the Tyrell's, which appears to be the case.

Next, sending the Unsullied to Casterly Rock seems suspect to me in a tactical sense considering the Rock is on the other side of Westeros and offers almost no strategic value to Dany. But from a show perspective, it will make for a great episode and further divide Dany's forces.

The overall point is that taking the Iron Throne needs to be harder for Dany and the writers have just done that.

Dany
Seems clearer and clearer to me that Dany is tilting towards Mad King personality disorder. What purpose did the dressing down of Varys in front of her council serve? Why wait until getting to Dragonstone to openly threaten him? Tyrion's expressions lead me to believe he is getting more and more worried about her. And Lady Olena is probably the spark that will push her to go scorched Earth. Be the Dragon.

All the Rest
Jon won't bend the knee. Attraction between Jon and Dany will be instant. Have no idea what reaction Dany will have to, or how she and Tyrion will prioritize the WW's.

Agree that Arya could go north or south. She still have to run in to Melisandre though. I think the run in with Nymeria only served to close that tiny arc out and as a reminder to Arya that she is a loner and needs to finish her mission.

Love Sam at the Citadel but I still struggle to understand the relevance of curing grescale right now? It only afflicts one character who has little left to offer Dany other than to fight in her war.

And thank God no dragon horn. Whew........

JCRiley09 said:

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Is everyone else completely dismissing the giant crossbow invention? We're all certain that three dragons will have three riders in the war against the WW, so Qyburn's plan will fail somehow?

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That's assuming Dany's 3 dragons are the only ones...



But realistically, we don't KNOW anything. The books have pretty much solidified that aspect of the prophecy, but the show runners could go in a different direction.

Not sure there is enough time for Dany to go "Mad King."

I think they do that "be the dragon" stuff because they have to always make Dany like super badass woman hear me roar.

Yep I'd put money on it.

Is it possible that Nymeria didn't recognize Arya?

A lot of time has passed and although Arya is Arya again she spent so much time training to be "no one".

Good write-up!

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Dany

Seems clearer and clearer to me that Dany is tilting towards Mad King personality disorder. What purpose did the dressing down of Varys in front of her council serve? Why wait until getting to Dragonstone to openly threaten him? Tyrion's expressions lead me to believe he is getting more and more worried about her. And Lady Olena is probably the spark that will push her to go scorched Earth. Be the Dragon.

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Re: Vary's/Dany's convo....I just took their interaction at face value. I, as a viewer, wondered the same thing about Varys. His motivations from Season 1 compared to this current season are confusing. I just thought the show runners felt it was necessary to reconcile those motivations to the rest of us. It also added a layer to Varys and the whole thing was very well done in general. Great script writing.

Olenna is a mystery to me as well. The obvious implication was that Dany should 'ignore' Tyrion's council? Following that advice would obviously lead to a conflict between Tyrion and Dany. Perhaps Tyrion's trust/friendship with Jon will be questioned? Tyrion knows Jon's character as a man and has told Dany as much...but will she believe him?

Belton Ag said:

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And thank God no dragon horn. Whew........

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Yeah, when Qyburn was leading Cersei around the basement looking at the old junk and he says "look over here..." I thought oh man here it comes.

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And then he reveals his true reason for creating Robert Strong, cause no normal man can blow this thing without burning their lungs out. Qyburn, pure winning once again.

I don't see Dany as having mad king tendencies. She's just a hard ass. She did the same thing to Tyrion that she did to Varys, and requesting that he be straightforward with her shows that she's willing to listen to her advisers. Aerys was not. Besides, she learned in Mereen when to be soft and when to be cold blooded.

Still think it was strange we didn't get one single scene with Bran. Just chilling at Castle Black? Getting his strength back from being out in the cold?